Wednesday, 28^th September, 2022

The House met at 1430 hours

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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MATTERS OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE

MR KAPYANGA, HON. MEMBER FOR MPIKA, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF INFRASTRUCTURE, HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT, ENG. MILUPI, OR LEADER OF GOVERNMENT BUSINESS IN THE HOUSE, ON THE DEPLORABLE STATE OF THE GREAT NORTH ROAD

Mr Kapyanga (Mpika): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, thank you so much for according me this opportunity to raise a matter of urgent public importance pursuant to Standing Order 134. My matter of urgent public importance is directed at the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development, Eng. Milupi, or, indeed, the Leader of Government Business in the House.

Madam Speaker, the Great North Road is a very important economic road to our country. It connects our country to Tanzania, Dar es Salaam seaport in particular. It also connects our country to Burundi via the Mpulungu Harbour. Currently, the Great North Road is in a very bad state and as we approach the onset of the rainy season, the road is on the verge of being cut off from the rest of the country. The Great North Road has two toll gates, namely the George Kunda Toll Gate and Chilonga Toll Gate in Mpika. Article No. 11 of the Tolls Act No. 14 of 2011, states that:

“The toll fee or other charge imposed for the use of a toll road and collected by the Agency shall form part of the Road Fund and shall be used exclusively for the construction, maintenance and rehabilitation of roads.”

Madam Speaker, the Great North Road remains in a very bad state despite the fact that it has huge traffic flow, thereby, wrecking in a lot of revenue through toll fees to the National Roads Fund Agency (NRFA).

Madam Speaker, there have been a number of accidents on the Great North Road, and most recently, two tanker trucks carrying petroleum products were involved in a road traffic accident, thereby destroying goods worth millions of Kwacha.

Madam Speaker, I seek your indulgence on this very important matter where lives and properties are being lost every day through road traffic accidents.

REV KATUTA, HON. MEMBER FOR CHIENGE, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF EDUCATION, MR SYAKALIMA, ON NOT RECRUITING TEACHERS WITH SPECIAL NEEDS

Rev Katuta (Chienge): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving an opportunity to the voice of Chienge to rise on this very important matter of urgent public importance. This matter of urgent public importance is directed towards the hon. Minister of Education.

Madam Speaker, the Teaching Service Commission (TSC) and the Ministry of Education, by design, decided to recruit 30,000 teachers in our country. However, people living with disabilities were left out of this exercise. Point No. 4 of the 2022 teacher recruitment programme stated that 10 per cent of available vacancies shall be reserved for persons with disabilities. However, when we look at the statistics, we see that most people living with disabilities have been disadvantaged, they have not been recruited. The TSC was heard on television saying people living with disabilities have been employed.

Madam, there no discrimination in our country. I, therefore, rise on this matter of urgent public importance because our people have been left out but they are also in dire need of jobs in order to live.

So, I seek your indulgence on this very important issue which has affected many families.

Madam Speaker: Order!

I will now respond to the two matters of urgent public importance that have been raised. I will start with the first one raised by the hon. Member of Parliament for Mpika, directed at the Leader of Government Business in the House, in relation to the state of the Great North Road.

Hon. Member for Mpika, we appreciate and understand that the road in question has been in a deplorable condition for quite a long time. So, I am of the view that this is not a recent occurrence. As such, it does not require an immediate action or attention by this House. Of course, the Government needs to take measures about repairing roads. It is not only the road going to Nakonde or the Great North Road that requires attention. A number of roads, including the Great East Road, are all in bad state and need to be repaired. However, the Government says it is looking for money to work on it. So, even if I directed the Leader of Government Business in the House to come and deliver a ministerial statement, the matter will not change there and then.

So, this is an on-going matter. What I will ask the hon. Member and other hon. Members is to continue engaging with the hon. Ministers to ensure that the state of our roads is looked at. So, in terms of admissibility, this matter of urgent public importance is not admitted.

Regarding the matter of urgent public importance raised by the hon. Member for Chienge, relating to the employment of people living with disabilities, my response is that whereas this matter is important and we need to employ people living with disabilities, we actually have to give an opportunity to all Zambians to be employed, including the disabled. Unfortunately, this matter does not meet the criterion for it to raised as matter of urgent public importance. No catastrophe is going to occur if this House does not attend to it immediately.

This is an ongoing process, whereby we need to continue engaging each other. I think the role of hon. Members of Parliament is to engage and demand from the Executive that certain things are done. Of course, as we do that, we are not supposed to micro manage them. We know that the role of Parliament is to provide an oversight role and not to supervise the Executive. When the Executive fails to deliver on its promises or what it is supposed to do, then we can provide the necessary oversight role by demanding from it what is required of it, but definitely, not to micromanage it. That is my response to the two matters of urgent public importance. We can make progress.

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QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

THE ZAMBIA FLYING DOCTOR SERVICE

44. Mr Katakwe (Solwezi East) asked the Minister of Health:

(a)        whether the Flying Doctor Service is still operational;

(b)        if so, what challenges hinder its effective delivery of service;

(c)        what measures the Government is taking to make the service effective; and

(d)        when the measures will be implemented.

The Minister of Health (Mrs Masebo): Madam Speaker, the Zambia Flying Doctor Service has been operational since its establishment through an Act of Parliament in 1967. It was created under an Act of Parliament, Chapter 298 of the Laws of Zambia to provide health services in remote and hard to reach areas in the country. However, over the years, the service has not received any substantial capital inflows from the Government resulting in the deterioration of its fleet of aeroplanes and the facilities to the level of obsoleteness.

Madam, some of the specific challenges include, but are not limited to the following:

1. the Zambia Flying Doctor Service has been operating without a board since June, 2016 and this had a negative effect as some policy decisions could not be implemented in the absence of the board;
2. the Zambia Flying Doctor Service has a limited number and types of aircraft. Currently, it has two fixed-wing aircraft, but only one is operational. The other one has been grounded since 2017 pending engine and propeller overhaul;
3. the Zambia Flying Doctor Service has no pressurised aircraft and no helicopter, which are very convenient in emergencies and hard to reach areas;
4. the Zambia Flying Doctor Service aircraft currently do not have advanced life support equipment making it challenging to carry out some emergency medical evacuations for critically ill patients;
5. the Zambia Flying Doctor Service has only twelve airstrips around the country. There are a number of areas in Zambia which are still hard to reach and yet have no airstrips and require aeromedical services from the Zambia Flying Doctor Service. In addition, the twelve airstrips need to be upgraded to all-weather aviation infrastructure for aeromedical service delivery; and
6. over the years, the Zambia Flying Doctor Service has been facing challenges in liquidating debt which currently stands at K13,508,674.

Madam, in order to make the Zambia Flying Doctor Service effective, the New Dawn Government has been taking the following measures:

1. a board has since been appointed;
2. there has been some effort to liquidate outstanding debts regarding employee issues, which has since been done. What is remaining is the K13,508,674 which are statutory obligations. Part of this money is owed to the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) and the other to the National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA), although the principle for both institutions has been paid, except for the interest that has been accrued as compounded interest and penalties;
3. the Zambia Flying Doctor Service is trying to overhaul the engine and propeller for the grounded aircraft. The House may wish to note that grounding an aircraft for prolonged periods of time results in other component deterioration and subsequently increased cost in bringing the aircraft back online. Therefore, the required amount for the overhaul of the aircraft engine and propeller is estimated at US$390,000 and US$50,000, respectively;
4. one of the measures is to procure advanced life support equipment for the aircraft. The estimated cost for the procurement of the base and stretcher systems as well as other components of the advanced life support equipment is US$413,000 per aircraft;
5. increase the number of airstrips from twelve so that a number of areas in Zambia which are still hard to reach, and have no airstrips and require aeromedical services from the Zambia Flying Doctor Service could benefit from the services;
6. construction of the Zambia Flying Doctor Service offices and hanger at Simon Mwansa Kapwepwe International Airport; and
7. modernisation of the Zambia Flying Doctor Service through procurement of additional and different types of aeroplane or choppers that are able to be quickly converted between passenger, flight or cargo and medical configuration allowing for operational flexibility during disaster relief missions and, most importantly, to carry out some emergency medical evacuations for critically ill patients.

Madam Speaker, the short and long-term measures that the Government intends to implement for the Zambia Flying Doctor Service to be effective will be undertaken within the 2022 to 2024 medium-term expenditure framework and beyond.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Katakwe: Madam Speaker, this is a matter of life and death. In the medical fraternity, there is what we call the golden hour, which is an hour within which life has to be saved, beyond which, you lose a life. There are many accidents that are happening. The hon. Minister said the Act that put this Zambia Flying Doctor Service in place was drafted in 1967. With me, I have the Act and it was last repealed in 1975 when I was just one year old –

Laughter

Mr Katakwe: … and this is the Act which we are still using. Does the Government have any intention to repeal this Act as one of the measures so as to effectively enhance the Zambia Flying Doctor Service?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, indeed, the Act that established the Zambia Flying Doctor Service is archaic and requires to be repealed. The New Dawn Government will next year deal with the issue of the Act.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kamondo (Mufumbwe): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for that answer. There are two challenges that affected the Zambia Flying Doctor Service. The first one is the number of aircrafts, and the second one is the board which was not in place. According to the statement which the hon. Minister has given, only one aircraft is operational. In Mufumbwe, we have two aerodromes; one in Kalengwa and the other in Kabanda. Therefore, which areas are now being serviced by the only aircraft which is operational?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I would not say that this year, for example, there is an area which has really been serviced. What the institution has tried to do in the last six months after putting the board in place was to look at issues of personnel. This is an institution which was literally abandoned by the previous regime and now we are trying to resuscitate it. The first thing we tried to do is to put in place a board and then get it to look at issues of management and audit, which we have finished. We also looked at ensuring that workers are paid what is due to them and begin to make the institution give a service.

Madam Speaker, so far, it has been able to help in terms of health delivery in various places, except I do not have the answer on exactly where. However, I know that within the Copperbelt Province, it is helping in service delivery in as far as preventive and curative services are concerned. What it wants to do now is look at some of the clinics it was running in the remotest parts of Zambia, which, about five years ago, were taken over by the Ministry of Health and given to the district health team to run. I have been informed that the Zambia Flying Doctor Service has gone round and has discovered that some of those clinics were literally abandoned after being taken over by the headquarters, Ministry of Health.

Madam Speaker, so, we have asked them to resuscitate some of those clinics which were closed. We are hoping that before the end of this year, we will be able to open some of the clinics in the remotest parts of Zambia. As a ministry, we have also given the Zambia Flying Doctor Service some of the mobile hospitals which were abandoned because they were not functioning. Those have been handed over to them and they have since made them functional. I am aware that on the Copperbelt, they have started using them to screen and heal people of various diseases.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya): Madam Speaker, I would like the hon. Minister to clarify whether the Act will be repealed or amended. The Flying Doctor Service Act, Cap. 298 (3) says:

“There shall be a service known as the Flying Doctor Service, the objects of which shall be to combat disease among and to promote the health and material well-being of the inhabitants of the rural areas of Zambia.”

Madam Speaker, in terms of the cost benefit analysis, is it sustainable for us to maintain the Zambia Flying Doctor Service or would it be ideal that we move in the direction of bringing facilities closer to the people such as mini hospitals?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, the first part of the question, on whether we are repealing or amending the Act and my response is that: When you look at that piece of legislation, you will see clearly that you cannot even talk about amending. It requires a complete repeal and a new one put in place. Whilst we are on that matter, we have to find out whether the reasons it was put established in first place are still valid today or not. Obviously, the answer will be yes because Zambia is a large country and we have many people living in very remote rural areas where there are no health services.

Therefore, Madam Speaker, the core business of the Zambia Flying Doctors Service was to ensure it took specialised treatment right at the door step of the sick persons in places where the Ministry of Health had not put a facility in the rural parts of Zambia. Currently, we are talking about vaccinations against the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) vaccination, but you will find that there are people who have never even heard about COVID-19.

Madam Speaker, so what would happen is that the Zambia Flying Doctor Service would assemble a team of doctors and fly them into a particular community and do some health promotion and education and maybe even conduct some screening and treatment if they found somebody sick. When you ask yourself if the reasons it was established in first place are still valid today or not, you will see that in some parts of Zambia, this service is still required. However, obviously, this is a specialised service that is not cheap, but it is necessary. I think that it is a pity that over the past years, the Government then, did not see the need to serve the people in the rural areas. When you talk of cost analysis, it is cheaper to have the Flying Doctor Services in place looking at how Zambians are scattered, especially when you look at rural areas. You cannot manage to put a hospital next to every small population of people. So, sometimes, some areas just have to be serviced by mobile hospitals and the Flying Doctor Service is another form of mobile hospital. There are others who live in water-logged places where you cannot even think of putting up permanent infrastructure. Again, it is such areas which the Flying Doctor Service should reach. Reaching such areas either by mobile boats or by road is important.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Madam Speaker, the Zambia Flying Doctors is an important institution which a country like Zambia is supposed to have. Based on the reasons that the hon. Minister has given, I would like to find out why the Zambia Flying Doctors Service cannot be combined with the Zambia Air force (ZAF), since both are Government institutions. There are planes and choppers at ZAF. We only see the choppers from ZAF when there is a disaster. While the Government is waiting for funds to buy planes for the Zambia Flying Doctor Service, can ZAF not work with the Flying Doctor Service since they both have medical persons?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, what the hon. Member has said is what happens. Many times when there is a medical disaster or any other disaster, the Zambia Flying Doctor Service works with the Ministry of Defence, the Zambia Air Force (ZAF) division who also have planes and they actually help. We are one Government in that regard. You must also know that that is specifically for the military and it also has its own functions. As Ministry of Health, our job is to ensure that every Zambian is helped and nobody is left behind. We must ensure that the health services are taken to the people. So, when we talk about leaving no one behind and having medical services close to somebody, it means that you have to make them available by whatever means, be it through a medical boat, a plane, a fixed structure or mobile hospitals that we also use. So the short answer is that she is correct. That does happen but we still need to build our own fleet of planes which can also be used under the Ministry of Health in support of delivering medical drugs and supplies in remote areas where it is difficult maybe for the Zambia Medicines and Medical Supplies Agency (ZAMMSA) to reach.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Tayengwa (Kabwata): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has highlighted the challenges that the institution has been facing such as the issue of the board not being in place and the human resource. She also mentioned that an audit was done and completed. When was the last time that the Government funded this institution?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, the institution has been funded. Even the defunct Patriotic Front (PF) did fund it, ...

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: ... except the funding was not sufficient. What we have done, under the New Dawn Government, is doubled the budget for the institution in the 2022 Budget so that it was able to deal with a number of challenges which had been there for decades.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Kafwaya (Lunte): Madam Speaker, I wish to thank the hon. Minister, except where she said “defunct PF” because it is not defunct as far as I understand. Just by way of following up the question from my hon. Colleague from Kanchibiya – I can see the hon. Minister is chatting. So I do not know if –

Interruptions

Mr Kafwaya: Okay, hon. Minister. Following the question that was asked by my hon. Colleague from Kanchibiya, the hon. Minister ascertained that the Government is going to repeal this Act. Has she already obtained Cabinet approval in principle to traverse the repeal as opposed to amendment?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, when I say that the Act is going to be repealed next year, it means we are taking the necessary procedural steps towards repealing it and that would also include consultation of stakeholders and everybody else. So, that is what it means.

Sorry I was talking, Madam Speaker. I was trying to get the meaning of the word “defunct.” Sometimes you may use a word in English which may be wrong.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr J. Chibuye (Roan): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has alluded to quite a number of things that have negatively impacted the Zambia Flying Doctor Service. Could she be in a position to state the levels of human resource at the Zambia Flying Doctors Service, meaning the number of doctors, nurses and all medical support personnel who we believe are currently drawing salaries when we do not have the equipment to help them execute these important functions? Does she not think it is another drain for the institution?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I did say that at the time when we took office, this institution was as good as dead. We have tried to resuscitate it and the first point was to look at the budget because we realised that it was not getting sufficient resources to do anything. This is how the budget was doubled. Obviously, even if the budget was doubled, I will still say that it is not sufficient, especially when you look at issues of equipment, but we will get there. We already have a plan and hopefully with time we shall be able to get some new planes hopefully next year using other sources.

Madam, on the question of human resource, if you look at the institution, you will see that it has come up with a new structure to try and improve operations. I must say that the Zambia Flying Doctor Service also does have some clinics that are currently running and it is giving a service to the communities in which it is found. I did also say to you that initially, it also had some clinics in very remote areas where the Central Government was not there, but four years ago, the Government did take all those I am told forty health facilities countrywide. Now we have done an analysis of all these and we have found that in fact, some of those clinics were closed but we want to open them.

Madam, the institution has restructured itself and the board has come up with a plan of action for 2022, 2023 and 2024. In its plans, it is trying to look beyond its function in terms of how it can help in the delivery of health service. I think what is important is: is the staff helping or it is just there to get salaries? The answer to that question is that you will be very impressed to learn that the staff is doing a very good job, especially when it comes to helping us as Government in preventive and curative healthcare.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Kambita (Zambezi East): Madam Speaker, I listened to the hon. Minister of Health explain the challenges that the Zambia Flying Doctors Service is facing. I realise that this was a statutory institution that was put in place to mitigate the impact of the lack of health facilities in rural places. I was thinking of a place called Lwamfula in Solwezi East. There is a clinic there, and to access it, one has to pass through Chililabombwe –

Mr Kafwaya: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, my point of order is based on Standing Order No. 65, which requires that a member tendering discourse must release data which is verifiable. This point is directed at the hon. Minister of Heath. My hon. Colleague from Kanchibiya asked the hon. Minister a very straightforward question. He wanted to know whether the Government is going to repeal the Act or it is going to amend the Act. The hon. Minister was very clear. She indicated that there is nothing to amend in this Act so it will be repealed. I followed up with a question to get an answer from the hon. Minister whether she has already obtained principle approval from Cabinet for her to be certain that this Act is going to be repealed as opposed to being amended.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has just said to me and to the House that she is yet to make consultations. Now, how has she determined the outcome of consultation for her to be so clear that this Bill is going to be repealed? She does not have principle Cabinet approval, she has not started consulting, and consultations will be done next year, yet she has already predetermined that the Act is going to be repealed.

Is she in order, Madam Speaker, to mislead the House by stating a position which has not yet been undertaken?

I seek your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: My understanding is that when an Act is going to be repealed, the relevant ministry makes a decision on whether to repeal or amend a particular Act. Then there are processes that have to follow in terms of asking for approvals and all those things. So, my understanding from the answer that hon. Minister gave was that there was an intention to have this Act repealed and replaced. However, in the meantime, there are processes that have to be done in terms of seeking approval from Cabinet.

So, I do not know whether the hon. Members want to – because it is a process. So, I believe the hon. Minister was in order to give that answer; that there is a process that we follow. However, I did not hear her say that she has already obtained Cabinet approval which you wanted to hear yourself. She said that there is a process which has to be done and the ministry itself has made a decision to repeal and replace the Act. The hon. Member for Zambezi East was asking a question. Can we be precise so that we make progress and go to another item.

Mr Kambita: Madam Speaker, before I was disturbed by those political semantics, what I meant to say was –

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, I think let us not attract acrimony in the House. Just ask your supplementary question.

Mr Kambita: Madam Speaker, most obliged. I was just about to mention a place called Luamfula in Solwezi East. To access this place, one has to pass through Chililabombwe and that is the reason the Zambia Flying Doctor Service was put in place; to visit such places.

Madam Speaker, now that the Zambia Flying Doctor Service is operating at that level, it is almost a defunct institution, how is the Ministry of Health coping with the situation of health care services, especially primary health care services which the Zambia Flying Doctor Service provided in such areas?

Madam Speaker, you will recall that actually, the outbreak of measles was around that area. So, I would like the hon. Minister to assist us to know what interventions have been put in place by her ministry to mitigate that situation.

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for a very good question. I think I mentioned that of the resources that were given to this institution to help it get back on its feet, part of them have been used to have the operational aeroplane serviced. The plane was serviced quite intensively and it has now started doing a few service deliveries in such remote areas. One of the issues or activities that are going to be undertaken will be vaccinations. The service will be vaccinating young children against measles and other kinds of diseases. Indeed, that is one of the reasons for having the Zambia Flying Doctor Service revamped, and it is quite a big priority for us as a ministry because we appreciate and understand what is at stake.

Madam Speaker, apart from that, the other thing that we are doing, as a ministry, is to push quickly the policy on decentralisation regarding universal health coverage. We take note that His Excellency the President, in his quest to ensure that all areas of Zambia are covered, did move the functions to local authorities. This was through a statutory instrument just when we were being appointed.

Madam Speaker, I think what we are doing as a ministry is to try and implement that very critical decision of His Excellency the President which has already been given legal effect. So, one of the things you are going to see us do very quickly, getting into 2023, will be to begin to get the local authorities to perform some of those functions. This will be done by giving them not just a function, but capacity in terms of human resource, equipment and resources, so that those hard-to reach places can now be reached by the relevant councils. We are confident that we will see a general improvement in health service delivery throughout Zambia and that will be done in an equitable manner.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Katakwe: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: I believe we have spent some time on this question. I know it is an interesting one, but I will just allow two more questions. However, I notice that the hon. Member for Solwezi East has a point of order. What is the point of order? I thought the question was yours.

Mr Katakwe: Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order pursuant to Standing Order No. 204.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, proceed.

Mr Katakwe: Madam Speaker, last time, there was acrimony caused by the hon. Member of Parliament for Feira and you told this House that he would have to apologise when he comes back to this House. Is the hon. Member in order to sit there and listen vivacious without rendering an apology to this House?

Madam Speaker, I seek your ruling.

Madam Speaker: I believe the hon. Member was waiting for an opportune moment for him to do that. So, we will leave it to his best judgment. However, he needs to do that at an appropriate time. Let us just close this segment and then maybe, I will call upon the hon. Member. The hon. Member for Nyimba may proceed.

Mr Menyani Zulu (Nyimba): Madam Speaker, I am one of the beneficiaries of the Zambia Flying Doctor Service although now, we are not being serviced by it. The only remaining clinic we had in Luano or Luangwa Valley had its roof blown off by the winds last season. Thank God the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) has moved in. We are roofing the clinic this week, and I think people are already on site.

Madam Speaker, I am impressed with the hon. Minister’s answers on mitigation and what the ministry’s plans for the organisation called the Zambia Flying Doctor Service are. My question to the hon. Minister is very simple. She has promised us that next year, the ministry will try to source some planes to service rural areas. We know that one Marcopolo bus or two are more expensive than those planes which the Government is servicing for the Zambia Flying Doctor Service. I believe these planes are not over US$500,000. If I am not mistaken, they should be between US$500,000 to US$1 million somewhere there. In this country, we have spent more than that on properties. Is the hon. Minister promising us – or how many planes is the Government planning to add on to the one which is not operating now and needs an engine and wing overhaul? Obviously, for her to give us this beautiful answer, she has a number of planes the Government plans to add to the one being used by the Zambia Flying Doctor Service.

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for the follow-up question. In fact, you will be pleased to note that the board has actually been doing its own internal saving using the only plane that is there. When it is not being used for health services, it is hired out. I was told that for some months now, it has managed to raise quite a substantial amount of money in United States Dollars. The board thinks that if it proceeds on this line, it will be capable of buying a good second hand plane by the end of this year, which would cost in excess of US$500,000. It has already checked and found that a brand new one would cost something like US$5.2 million, but there are also very good ones for US$2 million. As it is now, the board thinks it is possible to get a second hand fleet at US$500,000 from South Africa.

Madam Speaker, I must state that the board and management in place are very innovative. I am sure those from the Copperbelt can take time to visit and they will come back and confirm what I have said.

Madam Speaker, let me also ask that the hon. Members of Parliament in their respective constituencies may help us with information. If there is a clinic that has been closed and is not functional, those are the ones that the Zambia Flying Doctor Service would actually immediately open. I think that capacity is currently there.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: The last question will be from the hon. Member for Chilubi.

Mr Fube (Chilubi): Madam Speaker, I would like to start by declaring that Chilubi is an interested constituency because it is a beneficiary of the Zambia Flying Doctor Service, just like the hon. Member for Nyimba said. We had the North-East Two and Santa Maria Mission Hospital that were serviced by the Zambia Flying Doctor Service. Let me just take this opportunity to confirm to the hon. Minister that these clinics have not been closed, but are used to service a particular circumference of different health centres.

Madam Speaker, having said that, I would like to ask the hon. Minister a question on a point of clarification. Going forward, will there be consideration for more funds for hard-to-reach areas under the financial resources that will be availed in the Budget to come, apart from maintenance of those airstrips that are still there?

Madam Speaker: Hon. Minister of Health, do you have any comment on that?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I thank the voice from Chilubi. Yes, apparently, the board and management are looking at that and that is why I said all things being equal, next year, they may just be able to do that. Further, they are now looking at getting a helicopter and not just a plane because for some of those areas, a medical helicopter would be the best.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

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MOTIONS

EXTEND LOAN SCHEME TO STUDENTS AT PRIVATE UNIVERSITIES

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that this House urges the Government to extend the loan scheme to students at private universities in order to increase access to higher education.

Madam Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Madam Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

Mr Kang’ombe: Madam Speaker, let me begin by registering my profound appreciation to you for according me this rare opportunity to move this Private Member’s Motion, urging the Government to extend the loan scheme to students in private universities, not only on behalf of the people of Kamfinsa, but also on behalf of all the affected students. This Motion is premised on the provisions of the Higher Education Loans and Scholarships Act No. 31 of 2016. Section 16 (1) of the Act states as follows:

“There is established the Higher Education Loans and Scholarships Fund to provide loans and scholarships to students who require financial assistance or who are recognised for academic excellence.”

Madam Speaker, from the above provision, it is clear that the loan scheme is not a preserve of students in public institutions, but can be accessed by those in private institutions as well. Therefore, the Motion is primarily aimed at ensuring that the Government implements what is already provided for in the existing laws.

Madam Speaker, since 1966, the Zambian Government has been investing in higher education in order to promote human capital formation, which is essential for socio-economic prosperity of the country. It is, therefore, worth noting that until 1996, what the Government provided were higher education bursary grants.

The Government later on, Madam Speaker, introduced a cost-sharing policy in all public institutions of higher learning, which led to some fees being charged on students. However, this cost-sharing policy proved to be a hindrance for the majority of school leavers who were from poor families, resulting in the Government deciding to continue giving bursaries to some students who were considered to be vulnerable.

In 2004, Madam Speaker, the bursary scheme under the old bursaries committee was reformed to introduce the students loan scheme. As such, the Government started giving out educational loans to some students at the University of Zambia (UNZA) and the Copperbelt University (CBU).

Madam Speaker, following the enactment of the Higher Education Loans and Scholarships Act No. 31 of 2016, the Government fully operationalised the loan scheme, and in 2018, begun recovering funds as loan repayment from former beneficiaries of the loan scheme. Since the commencement of the recoveries, the Government has, so far, recovered part of the money, which has been pumped back into the Loans and Scholarships Fund. In 2019, a landmark decision was made when the loan scheme was extended to other public universities such as Kwame Nkrumah, Chalimbana, Mukuba, Mulungushi and Palabana universities.

Madam Speaker, it is unfortunate that students in private universities have remained disadvantaged to date. In any case, not everyone can be admitted to public universities. It is in this regard that I urge the Government to further extend the scheme to students in private universities. Being a loan scheme and not a bursary entails that regardless of the university to which one is admitted, they should be accorded an opportunity to qualify for this very important facility, as the Government will later recover the resources at an opportune time.

Madam Speaker, extending loans to students in private universities will be in line with the objectives of the National Higher Education Policy of 2019, which focuses on quality, equity, inclusiveness and promoting alternative sources of finance for higher education. In addition, this will contribute to the achievement of the Sustainable Development Goal No. 4 which focuses on quality education.

Madam Speaker, to achieve the objectives of this Motion, the Government will be required to increase the budgetary allocation to the Higher Education Loans and Scholarship Board (HELSB) by making more resources available to the education sector as espoused in the Jomtein Declaration of 2011, which calls for 15 to 20 per cent of Government expenditure to go towards education. This commitment was also affirmed through the Paris Declaration of 2021.

Madam Speaker, allow me to urge the Government to leverage on the provisions of the Higher Education Loans and Scholarship Act, under Section 5 (j) which mandates the HELSB to promote the mobilisation of donations and grants from the public and private sectors for educational purposes and investment for purposes of the fund. Section 33 (2)(b) also allows the board to raise, by way of loans and otherwise, such monies as may be required for the discharge of its functions, subject to the approval by the hon. Minister of Education. These provisions impliedly allow the board to engage the private sector for purposes of raising additional funds for the loan scheme.

Madam Speaker, in line with the Act, the Bankers Association of Zambia (BAZ), which is a representative institution of all registered commercial banks in Zambia, has representation on the HELSB. To this end, the board can lobby for the banks’ participation in extending the loan scheme to students in private universities. In South Africa, for example, banks such as ABSA, First National Bank (FNB) and Standard Bank do provide students loans in partnership with the Government.

Madam Speaker, as I conclude, I want to make reference to Section 21 (1) of the Higher Education Loans Scholarship Boards Act No. 31 of 2016, which states that:

“21               (1)        A student is eligible for consideration for a loan if the student–

(a)        is admitted to, or registered as a student at, a higher education institution within Zambia for a course of at least one academic year’s duration.”

From this provision, Madam Speaker, it is clear that students from both public and private universities are eligible for the educational loan, which is repaid when one begins to work formally in any institution.

With these few remarks, I wish to appeal to this august House to support the Motion in order to increase access to education.

Madam Speaker, I beg to move.

Madam Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Mr Mtayachalo: Now, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, I thank you for according me this rare opportunity on behalf of the people of Chama North to second this important Motion ably moved by Hon. Christopher Kang’ombe, Member of Parliament for Kamfinsa Constituency which urges the Government to extend the student loans scheme to private universities.

Madam Speaker, allow me from the outset to support this progressive Motion. If all hon. Members of this august will support this Motion, it will enable students, especially in rural areas where most of our children are vulnerable, to have equal access to education as those in urban areas.

Madam Speaker, I think you may recall that recently, I moved another progressive Motion which urged this House to amend the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) guidelines among others, so that CDF resources for bursaries can also be used to sponsor students who want to pursue tertiary education. Unfortunately, that important Motion was shot down. I hope that hon. Members of this august House will support this very important Motion.

Madam Speaker, allow me to also state that the genesis of the Higher Education Loans and Scholarship Board (HELSB) traces back to 1997 following Justice Bob Bwalya’s Commission of Inquiry which recommended for the establishment of this particular facility. The HELSB was established in 2004 after effectively replacing the Bursaries Committee which was established by Statutory Instrument No. 182 of 1973 of the Education Act CAP 134 of the Laws of Zambia.

Madam Speaker, the students loan scheme should be designed in such a way that every young citizen, irrespective of his/her social status and whether in public or private university should access a loan which is recoverable upon graduation when the recipient gets employed.

Madam Speaker, education should be viewed as a critical investment in human capital development rather than an expense. Our friends, the Asian Tigers have achieved this, and that is why today, they have attained higher economic growth because they invested heavily in education.

Madam Speaker, it is common knowledge that young people are future leaders and how they are treated now will have a larger bearing on the future of our country. Let us, therefore, provide them with enough education facilities, including loans to possibly shape our future economy taking into account that the majority of Zambia’s population is composed of young people. Therefore, the demand for tertiary education continues to rise. However, I want to commend the New Dawn Government for having created secondary school bursaries and skills.

Madam Speaker: Order hon. Member for Chama North! There is a request for a point of order from the hon. Member for Nalolo. What is your point of order?

Mr Wamunyima: Madam Speaker, I think it must have been an Information Communication Technology (ICT) issue. I have not indicated to raise a point of order.

Madam Speaker: Okay, it is technology. Sorry, hon. Member for Chama North, please proceed with your debate.

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, I was just saying that I commend the New Dawn Government for having established secondary school bursaries and also skills training facilities. I think that is going a long way in ensuring that our people access tertiary education.

Madam Speaker, education is a right for every individual as espoused by the United Nations Declaration on Human Rights –

Madam Speaker: Order hon. Member!

I thought the hon. Member for Nalolo wanted to raise a point of order. You are reading your script. You can refer to it, but please, do not read, in accordance with our Standing Orders.

You may proceed with your debate.

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, I was saying education is a human right and therefore, we must do everything possible to ensure that more resources are allocated towards this particular facility.

Madam Speaker, I also want to urge the Government to provide tax incentives to institutions and corporate entities that substantially contribute to the HELSB. I am alive to the fact that the Government alone cannot manage to fund all the students who deserve to pursue tertiary education because of many competing needs.

Madam Speaker, I take this opportunity to emphasise that investment must continuously be renewed, so that the majority of our people can continue to access education.

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, allow me to quote the words of a revered statesman, Nelson Madiba Mandela who once said:

“Education is the most powerful weapon which we can use to change the world.”

Madam, the power of education extends beyond the development of skills we need for our economic success. Therefore, extension of the student loan facility to private universities will accord our students an opportunity, especially those in rural areas, to have access to higher education. That will sharpen their skills and contribute significantly to Zambia’s economic growth.

With these few remarks, Madam Speaker, I beg to second this Motion.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Emmanuel Tembo (Feira): Madam Speaker, let me take this opportunity to apologise for what happened on Friday. It is regrettable and I apologise to the House and to you, as the presiding officer and the learned hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security to the extent that I interrupted his debate.

Madam Speaker, I thank you for your continued guidance.

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much hon. Member for Feira for apologising. That is how it should be. Of course, as we are debating, by way of general guidance, please, let us not bring ourselves into the debate. Once we do that, the person who is going to respond will react in the same manner. Both ways amount to breach of our established practice. So, as we maintain the decorum and dignity of the House, let us avoid bringing ourselves into the debate. Furthermore, in accordance with Standing Order 204 (x) which says we should not interrupt a Member debating, whether somebody is annoyed, upset or emotional. Instead, we should wait for an appropriate time to raise our objection or to be heard on a matter that we are not happy with. So, the apology is accepted. Let us continue. We are one family. Proceed.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Emmanuel Tembo: Madam Speaker, I want to express my views and those of the people of Feira on the issue of extending the loan scheme to students in private universities.

Madam Speaker, this country has always held the view that public funding should always go to public universities. However, the general practice across the world has been that, even private universities or private institutions of learning are funded with public funds. In fact, the Budget would actually carter for that. I say this because today, there are new universities that have come up, some of which are private. The other universities have even gone to rural areas where they are offering their services. Despite being private, they are able to serve a purpose of a public nature. To that effect, I am of the considered view that this House should approve this Motion so that our people in rural areas such as Feira, Sinazongwe, Shangombo and elsewhere should be able to access private universities financed by public funds.

Madam Speaker, public universities have been running out of space. We have seen that there have been problems of accommodation and classroom space. Indeed, these private universities have come in to cushion the pressure on the public universities. To that extent, we are of the view that we need to ensure that the Government considers and be urged to extend funding to private universities.

Madam Speaker, lastly, I want to cite countries that are funding private universities with public funds today. These are South Africa, Lesotho, Eswatini and Namibia. These are examples of countries where the Government sets aside funds in its national Budget to ensure that even payments for lecturers and other emoluments are done using public funds or by the Central Government to the benefit of the public. I know that before the University Act was amended, it was considered that a university must always be run by the Government, but things have changed.

Madam, I think that the Motion on the Floor is timely. Therefore, we should consider and ensure that we support this Motion so that private universities which are serving the public should be encouraged. Indeed, it has already been underscored that education is very important and there is no development we can talk about without education, in particular, higher education.

I thank you, Madam.

Madam Speaker: I will be alternating between hon. Members on the left and the right just to balance the debate. By way of notice, I have received a list of debaters from both sides. So, the next debater is the hon. Member for Luena.

Mr Anakoka (Luena): Madam Speaker, thank you for the opportunity given to the people of Luena to contribute and debate this Motion brought by my good friend, the hon. Member for Kamfinsa and seconded by another good friend and neighbour, the hon. Member for Chama North. My good friend, the hon. Member for Kamfinsa seems to be specialising in bringing Motions that can only be described as obnoxious, vexatious –

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Luena, please let us stick to the issues. Let us not start giving names to the Motions that our hon. Colleagues bring to the Floor of the House. Just debate factually.

Mr Anakoka: Madam Speaker, this Motion, in one word, is otiose, meaning that it serves absolutely no purpose. The Motion is urging the Government to extend access to higher education by providing loans to students who are pursuing higher education studies in private universities. That is according to the mover of the Motion. He went on to quote the Higher Education Loans and Scholarships Board Act of 2016 and specifically read Section 16, in which he indicated that the law is actually adequately providing for the provision and increased access to financial support in the higher education institutions. So, the law is already provided for and is already providing for. As a result, what remains for this Government is what it is already doing.

Madam Speaker, this Government is already spending huge amounts of money in order to increase access to education. For the information of the mover of the Motion, maybe, we should look at where we are coming from as a nation. This Government is working so tirelessly to strengthen our base, starting with secondary school education. If you look at our Eighth National Development Plan (8NDP), you will see statistics that make very sad reading. That is one area where this Government is spending a lot of money.

Madam Speaker, for example, I will highlight only two or three items. You will note that our net enrolment at secondary school level as at 2020 was 37 per cent. The transition from Grade 9 to Grade 10 as at 2020 was standing at 47 per cent. The completion rate at Grade 12 stood at a low 32 per cent.

Madam Speaker, for a country that needs to adopt a systematic approach, you cannot spend money without clarity on what you intend to achieve. As we know by now, more teachers have been deployed to primary and secondary schools. All that needs financing. This Government is adopting a systematic approach. If you go into all these public institutions of higher learning, you will discover that they are littered with unfinished projects that need funding in order to increase access to the higher education sub sector. All these are the projects that this Government is pursuing.

Madam Speaker, a quick look at our university situation in this country shows that just slightly over ten years ago, there were only three public universities. Today, that number stands at nine. The private universities were only three, but today, there are fifty four universities that are privately managed. For someone to suggest that the Government without a plan should simply extend this to students in private institutions in a non systematic way is being unproductive. Indeed, this Government is desirous of making sure that children from all the four corners of this country have access to education at all levels including tertiary education, but that is not going to be done in haphazard manner.

Madam Speaker, right now, we are waiting for the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to bring the Budget to the House on Friday. It is this House which allocates resources. In fact, what I read in the Motion that has been presented before this House is a good proposal which the mover should have taken to the Higher Education Loans and Scholarship Board, and not bring it this House. This House has already provided adequate legislative provisions in order to enable that to be satisfied.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Anakoka: Madam Speaker, in conclusion, this Motion is a nugatory and therefore, cannot be supported.

I thank you, Madam.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: It looks like the Research Department is providing the necessary services. I like the statistics. That is on a lighter note.

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Madam Speaker, I have to state that I am in support of this very important Motion. This Motion is simply a rider to what President Hakainde Hichilema promised the youths of this country that once he is elected, he will ensure they receive free education up to the university.

Interruptions

Mr Mung’andu: ... I remember, His Excellency promising – My young man is talking while I am…

Madam Speaker: Order! Let us allow the hon. Member to debate without any interjections. You recall there is still some homework pending. I wonder how many people have gone through Standing Order 204. Can we go through order Stranding Order 204 please, and in full. You must read it from (a) to the end.

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, I was saying this Motion is simply speaking to what His Excellency, President Hakainde Hichilema promised those students when he told them that as soon as he won the elections, he was going to sell the gulfstream to ensure that students get the much needed finance.

Madam Speaker, let us appreciate that the previous Government had made it possible for many universities to be established. Statistics are there. My good friend from way back in Livingstone, Hon. Anakoka, ...

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Order! Let us not interrupt the debate. Please, hon. Members on my right, if you want to debate, just make a note, then at an appropriate time, you can time you can rebate. Maybe, I should read Standing Order 204, for avoidance of doubt.

Standing Order 204 (2) states as follows:

“(f)      a member shall not interrupt another member holding the Floor by making noise or other disorderly expression;

(g)        a member shall listen in silence to the debate in the House;

(h)        a Member shall not obstruct, interrupt proceedings or make disruptive commentaries when another member is speaking...”

Some students never do homework. Sometimes, the teacher will have to help them revise, and I have just done that. May the hon. Member continue.

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, I was saying my good colleague, Hon. Anakoka has just given statistics. The Patriotic Front (PF) established so many public universities and upgraded colleges into universities. Not only did it do that, but it also went further to provide scholarships to these universities.

Madam Speaker, looking at our demographics, 80 per cent of this population is a young population. Therefore, the demand for tertiary education is very high. The private universities come in to complement Government efforts in the provision of these tertiary educations. If a research was conducted on students who are in private universities, almost all of them would tell you that they would have loved to be in a public university. It is because our universities do not have the capacity to accommodate all the students because of the numbers. That is why we find a number of our students going into private universities.

Madam Speaker, It is, therefore, important that the Government extends this loan scheme to private universities. It is not a bursary, but a loan to be given to students in private universities, especially those who come from extremely vulnerable families and cannot compete and meet the entry requirements for public universities. For one to be admitted to the University of Zambia (UNZA) in the School of Natural Sciences, he/she has to get six or seven points. Similarly, admission to the School of Law at the Copperbelt University (CBU) is so competitive. Therefore, this disadvantages pupils from rural constituencies who are sometimes admitted into these private universities.

Madam, it is very important that these pupils are helped. I was shocked to hear one of your hon. Members say this Motion is vexatious and frivolous. Let us not look at national issues through political lenses. This is a Motion that has been brought on the Floor of this House to ensure that our students, who are disadvantaged, coming from poor families but admitted to private universities, can also have a chance to access tertiary education.

Madam Speaker, we know that whoever will oppose this Motion, is opposing His Excellency President Hakainde Hichilema.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order, order!

Hon. Member, the Standing Orders are very clear. Standing Order 65 (2) states that a member who is debating shall not:

“(c)      use the President's name to influence debate;”

So, let us bear that in mind. May the hon. Member continue.

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, I like the passion that the President has when it comes to education. I have to mention because he always refers to himself as a villager who has become who he is because of education.

Madam Speaker, I expect–

Madam Speaker: Order hon. Member!

Madam Speaker: Once a ruling is made, please, do not open debate. I have already made a ruling. The Standing Orders are very clear and they state that you should not use the name of the President to influence debate. It is not me saying that. It is the Standing Orders, and this confirms that I am reading my Standing Orders.

You may proceed.

Mr Mung’andu: Thank you –

Mr Mulenga: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, in conclusion, when we were at the university, the current hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry and the mover of this Motion were junior students. I was a senior student.

Mr Mulenga: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mung’andu: When I moved such Motions at the university, they used to support in a very eloquent manner. So, as I –

Madam Speaker: Order, order!

If we continue with these points of order, then we will not finish this debate.

Mr Mulenga: He is misleading the House, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mulenga: Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, my senior –

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Minister, start with the breach that has occurred.

Laughter

Mr Mulenga: Madam Speaker, according to Standing Orders 65 (1) (b), the hon. Member should be factual and provide information that is verifiable to the House. In his earlier statement and continuous abrogation of the Standing Orders of the House, where he is citing the President, he said, in the value of the President’s ambition to see that he provides free education. What is on the table is educational loans, which is not free education. Why is he contradicting himself by misleading the House with the comparison of free education and the education which is supported by a loan?

Is the hon. Member in order to bring two contradicting agendas to the Floor of the House?

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member of Parliament for Chama South, as you debate please stick to the Motion. Do not talk about free education because this is not the subject matter of the Motion. May you proceed as guided.

Mr Mung’andu: Well guided, Madam Speaker. That was just a preamble because it is free education which has brought higher demand for tertiary education.

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, I was urging a number of our hon. Colleagues that we need to support this Motion since it concerns loans. This is money which will be given to our students in private universities, who ordinarily, without this help, would be unable to access tertiary education.

Madam Speaker, I was at the Higher Education Loans and Scholarships Board (HELSB) and if you look at the recovery rate, you will see that it is very impressive. As I said, those who will try to oppose this Motion will be fighting the spirit of this country, which states that all Zambians, particularly the youths, should be able to access tertiary education. Most of the pupils, who are applying for scholarships, especially in private universities, are disadvantaged pupils who have probably been left out of public universities.

Not only that, we had an issue which Hon. Mtayachalo mentioned; we requested the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development to put exemptions in the Constituency Development Funds (CDF) so that skills development funds in our areas could be channeled to help such pupils. However, that Motion was shot down, and the money is just sitting because the conditions will not allow these pupils to access training.

I submit and support the Motion, Madam Speaker.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr B. Mpundu (Nkana): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me an opportunity to add a voice to the Motion that is being discussed, namely that we urge the Government to extend the loan scheme to students at private universities. I will say very few words because I want to be on record.

Madam Speaker, I will start by stating that I do support this Motion for a very simple reason. I want to start by stating that it is an undeniable fact that we cannot attain meaningful development if we do not invest significantly in education. That said, it is therefore, true to suggest that education is a precursor to development.

Madam Speaker, education cannot be a preserve of the rich. I want to think that Zambia being a signatory to the United Nations (UN) Convention on Human Rights, respects human rights. Article 26 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights dictates to all of us that education is a right for all. By education, it means one has to start from kindergarten all the way to attaining tertiary education. I want to believe that it is on this premise that His Excellency President Hakainde Hichilema decided that we must give an opportunity to every child to access free education.

Madam Speaker, this discussion is being governed by a piece of legislation that is called the Higher Education Loans and Scholarships Act of 2016, which among many other things, provides for the establishment of the Higher Education Loans and Scholarships Board (HELSB). Furthermore, this Act provides for the establishment of the High Education and Loans Fund (HELF). The Act dictates that beneficiaries of loans and scholarships are students who are accepted in either a public university or a private higher learning institution. In fact, it does not even specify that it must be a university, but every higher learning institution. For as long as you are an accredited student, then you qualify to be a beneficiary of a loan.

Madam Speaker, the challenge we seem to have in discussing this matter is looking at the issue from a constrained perspective in terms of resources. The people who will argue whether this is good timing or wrong timing to implement this suggestion, are well placed, except they are myopically looking at it in that, the HELSB has been mandated by this Act to go and find finances to support this establishment. The HELSB has been mandated to disburse these loans as well as to ensure it recovers these loans, as a way of responsibility.

Madam Speaker, we would be right to make a call that the HELSB, as we have witnessed in other government institutions like the Food Reserve Agency (FRA), should not sit and wait for the Government to finance it. It can exist as a business undertaking because it has been empowered to source funding and recover the funds.

Madam, I will cite two other jurisdictions; Botswana and South Africa, where in the provision of loan facilities to students, their loan boards have gone to bed with financial institutions. That is why there is no such hullabaloo around the provision of education to students in those jurisdictions. We, therefore, would be constrained in our thinking if we limit ourselves to thinking that it is only the Government that must provide funding to the HELSB. This is because history has already provided that from the time the HELSB was given the mandate to get back the loans, it has the capacity as we speak to grow the fund.

Madam Speaker, by the way, when you allow the HELSB to think outside the box and court financial institutions, you allow many students to come on board and by way of the repayments they will make, this fund will grow exponentially. That is why I want to be on terra firma to suggest that we must not look at this issue from the perspective of the Government funding the HELSB.

Madam, the other argument that I expect is the same way the introduction of free education was supposed to simply be a pronouncement – there were arguments that you cannot pronounce free education without establishing adequate facilities. The starting point should be that you pronounce the existence of something which will then be supported by the establishment of the needed facilities. In this case, I would like to suggest that the Government goes to address this matter by extending the loaning facility to all the higher learning institutions and then the financing models will be adopted.

Madam Speaker, I want to quote what my other colleagues have already submitted. When there was a proposal moved in this House– unless there is a Member of Parliament here who has never been bothered by students who are unable to pay for their education, everyone of us has been a victim of such pressures that we encounter at the hands of students who are stranded on account of the fact that they cannot afford to pay for higher learning. It is, therefore, prudent and morally right that we stop reducing debates that come into this House to a fight between those who sit on your right and those who sit on your left. Posterity will judge us harshly for refusing to give an opportunity to every child.

Madam, I want to end by going back to where I started from. We will not attain meaningful development if we do not endeavour to grow human capital. Human capital can only come if we invest significantly in educating our general citizenry. There is no better way to educate and grow the human capital required to develop our country than ensuring that we create equal opportunities for every child, if we do not cross this line that we are on today.

Madam Speaker, by the way, the argument that we are already constrained by failure to provide for those who are in public universities is neither here nor there because even in public universities today, that is optional. There are those who can pay for themselves and those who depend on the Government. Those who go to private institutions do not go on account of not having resources, it is on account of not having opportunities in public universities.

Madam, I urge these hon. Members who are sitting in this House to consider this Motion.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambita (Zambezi East): Madam Speaker, thank you for according me an opportunity to contribute to the Motion on the Floor of the House, ably moved by the hon. Member for Kamfinsa and seconded by the hon. Member for Chama South.

Madam, at the outset, I would like to state –

Madam Speaker: Seconded by the hon. Member for Chama North.

Mr Kambita: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker, for your correction. Indeed, it was seconded by the hon. Member for Chama North, Hon. Mtayachalo.

Madam, at the outset, I would like to state that I do not support the Motion, not necessarily because I do not support the fact that we should think about our citizens who are in private universities, but the manner in which the Motion has been coiled and brought to the House is where I have an argument. My argument will be in my discourse on this Motion.

Madam Speaker, my debate will be anchored around policy issues and the history of where we are coming from, how the Higher Education Loans and Scholarships Board (HELSB) was formulated in 2016 and how an Act of Parliament was put in place which ably provides for what we are advocating for.

Madam, we come to this House to make laws. We are not here to formulate policies. Policies are a preserve of the Executive. Ours is to formulate laws, which laws are already in place. Even the Motion we are debating here is well catered for. The mover explained how the Act provides for extension to private universities, except I had one argument about that. It is not instructive that we must extend this facility to the private universities. Let us be clear on that point.

Madam Speaker, the policy issues come in because of the scarcity of resources. In order to manage a situation under a narrowed fiscal space, the Executive makes certain policies and decisions in order to manage within the resources that are available. History will tell us that just before 2016, the Patriotic Front (PF) was in the driving seat, and this opportunity also existed then. The PF members were also policy makers. How then should we, today, start shouting lion when they had the window at that time to push in this policy and extend it to the private universities? The answer is very clear. The PF could not extend it to the private universities because it was difficult due to the limited fiscal space. There are always meagre resources, so it could not afford to extend such a luxury to the private universities because of limited fiscal space.

Madam Speaker, I will demonstrate this. In the 2021/2022 Academic Year, the University of Zambia (UNZA), which is near here, was one of the beneficiaries of these student loans. There were 10,682 applicants. Among those, 10,485 we eligible for student loans. Ask me how many were actually awarded the student loans in the 2021/2022 Academic Year. Only 2,481 were awarded student loans. The reason is very simple. This means that slightly above 8,000 students could not be catered for and this is just one private institution. That goes to demonstrate that resources are never enough. The applicants who are eligible just at this public university are not catered for because the fiscal space cannot allow it.

Madam, this is what my elder brother, Hon. Douglas Syakalima is grappling with. We all have, at one time or another, pushed him to try and include certain vulnerable children, but we cannot because the fiscal space cannot allow. That is the reason I said my debate would be anchored on policy issues. So, what has changed then, if at that time in PF, the Government was unable to afford this luxury of extending to the private universities and they expect us to do abracadabra, meaning perform magic, and in one day, extend this to private universities?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambita: Madam Speaker, first things first. We have to deal with the wrecked economy, which people who are seated in this House were responsible for. We are on a trajectory of mending this economy, putting in place fiscal discipline, which will eventually afford us this luxury of saying let us extend to the private sector.

Madam Speaker, I think I have done more of lecturing and actually helping our hon. Colleagues here to understand this issue before such a frivolous Motion is brought here to make us support things that do not actually apply in the current environment of a shrank fiscal space.

Madam Speaker, I still have one minute, but I do not want to go on with rhetorics. I just want to end here. I think I have done enough lecturing for them to understand.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker: I am always happy when one hon. Member yields up even one minute so that we can have more hon. Members.

Mr Kalobo (Wusakile): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank you for according the good people of Wusakile to contribute to debate on this non controversial, very progressive and apolitical Motion ably moved by the hon. Member of Parliament for Kamfinsa and ably supported (seconded) by the hon. Member of Parliament or Chama North.

Madam Speaker, I liked that the hon. Member of Parliament for Luena brought statistics of the nine universities. The history behind that is that forty-seven years after independence, we only had the Copperbelt University (CBU) and the University of Zambia (UNZA) which were benefiting from the bursaries. During the ten years of the Patriotic Front (PF) in power, it brought on board seven to make nine universities.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kalobo: Madam Speaker, for that, I congratulate the PF.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kalobo: Madam, the PF also introduced free education from Grade 1 to Grade 7, which takes me to congratulating the United Party for National Development (UPND) also for exhibiting the spirit of continuity by also introducing free education from Grade 8 to Grade 12.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mr Mulenga: On a point of order, Madam.

Madam Speaker: There is a point of order, but I know what the issue is, hon. Member.

Mr Kalobo: Madam Speaker, my time is running.

Madam Speaker: Can you stop the time. Hon. Members, as you debate, can we be relevant to the Motion. Let us not talk about free education because that is not what the Motion is about. Hon. Member, just debate the Motion ...

Mr Kalobo: I am trying to preface my debate.

Madam Speaker: ...so that you use your time efficiently. If you talk about education, then you are eating into your time. So, please, debate as guided.

Mr Kalobo: Madam Speaker, thank you for the guidance.

Madam Speaker, currently, we have these secondary schools which are offloading thousands of school leavers into the labour market and this number is likely to increase exponentially because of the free education. As a developing country, we need to adopt a coherent policy on access to quality education in line with the United Nation (UN) Sustainable Development Goals.

Madam Speaker, offering free education up to secondary school alone cannot help this country attain or develop the skills set that it needs in this knowledge economy. All our policies on access to quality education should be all encompassing from primary, secondary up to tertiary levels. As a developing nation, we have no option but to fund education up to university level. This can only be done if the Government of this Republic begins to view education from the human rights perspective.

Madam Speaker, access to free education is a good thing in this country. It will take us to the levels where we will compete favourably as a country. Our policy on access to quality education should be coherent enough and tailored to roll out education as a common good and social good. If education is funded as a common good and social good, there are so many dividends that we can realise as a nation. Among them is to improve the quality of citizen participation in democracy and governance to improve the inclusion of citizens in the diffusion of Information and Communications Technology (ICT) in this digital society.

Madam Speaker, the third things is to redress the existing skills match that exists between what the industry needs and the number of graduates coming from our universities. It will also help us make education an equaliser in life for those children who may want to learn.

Madam Speaker, this Motion to extend the student loans to public universities and all higher learning institutions in this country once realised, will help us attain a policy coherence that will help us build the skills set and human capital to build a smart Zambia.

Madam Speaker, this Motion is non controversial in the sense that that is what the Constitution of this Republic demands. The mover of this Motion is not in contention with the Constitution. He is simply asking the UPND Government to just follow what the Constitution says and extend it to all higher learning institutions in Zambia. This is very possible. The Government can fund this from the Treasury and it can also be done by raising the contribution threshold for these student loans. Currently, this contribution stands at 0.5 per cent of the payroll. The proposal from the good people of Wusakile is that it can be raised to 1 per cent as the case is with our colleagues in South Africa.

Madam Speaker, belonging to a private institution or access higher education from a private institution does not render the young people in this country not to be a Zambian. They are all Zambian. So, this is a very simple question which I see no problem with. If the Government in was to do this, every young person and according to the promises that it made, would not see anything wrong with it. So, the people of Wusakile support this Motion 100 per cent.

Madam Speaker, I do not want to say much about this non controversial Motion. I do want to destroy it. However, I end by saying that I am confident that the UPND Government will consider this matter even if it shoots it down in this House. I am appealing to the Government to consider this one, so that the young people of Wusakile and Zambia at large can benefit from the student loans.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker: I can see the hon. Member for Wusakile has also visited the Research Department. Kudos to our Research Department, It is doing a commendable job.

Mr Michelo (Bweengwa): Thank you, Madam Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to debate this controversial Motion brought to the Floor of this House by the hon. Member of Parliament for Kamfinsa.

Madam Speaker, quite alright, the Motion sounds good, but it has come at a very wrong time. The reason is that we have just inherited Government with empty coffers. Right now, we are still reconstructing the economy. Just yesterday, these people were in Government and they failed to come up with this very Motion which they have brought today. This is the very political party which removed meal allowance for university students. These are the very people who never used to give primary schools grants for them to operate freely. However, the moment the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government took over power, the situation changed. Right now, you can go to any primary school and you will find that money is being given to these schools. Our hon. Colleagues never gave out that money and they even went to an extent of charging examination fees. Right now, we are not doing that. We have just recruited 30,000 teachers –

Mr Mung’andu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, my point of order is pursuant to Standing Order No. 65, which is about relevance of debate and information provided being factual and verifiable. Is the hon. Member for Bweengwa, whom I have known to be very explosive, in order to be giving figures, but in a very calm manner, which figures are not related to the Motion? The Motion is urging the Executive to extend scholarships to private universities, yet he is talking about secondary schools and primary schools.

I seek your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Thank you. As earlier guided, please, hon. Members, as we debate, let us be relevant to the Motion on the Floor of the House. When we are giving examples, we can just quickly refer to the example, but do not go further and start debating about free education because that was the point of order that was raised earlier by the hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry. So, you are falling in the same trap. Can we stick to the Motion.

Mr Michelo: Madam Speaker, I was trying to explain where the money is going right now. If this Government was not spending too much money on some of these issues I have mentioned, we were going to manage to implement the Motion which has been moved on the Floor of this House. However, because of the same expenses and dismantling of the debt which the Patriotic Front (PF) acquired during the last ten years of its rule, we cannot manage. It borrowed a lot of money and right now, we are busy –

Hon. Government Members: They looted.

Mr Michelo: Some hon. Members of Parliament are trying to put words in my mouth.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, let us allow the Member to debate.

Mr Michelo: They are telling me that the PF did not just borrow but looted also.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Let us stick to the Motion. Hon. Member, I have guided. Let us stick to the Motion. I had guided that if you are going to give examples, just briefly touch on those examples but stick to the Motion.

Mr Michelo: Thank you, Madam Speaker. To tell you the truth, this is a very good Motion. It is a very good Motion, but very controversial and it has come at a very wrong time. Give us, we in the UPND, time to reconstruct this economy and then that Motion can come at a later stage and it will be supported when the economy starts breathing properly. At the moment, we are not ready to support it because the Government does not have enough money. Almost every ngwee which the PF found in 2011 was misused and it is the reason we are trying to reconstruct the economy. We assure the private universities that the moment the economy starts performing very well, we will definitely consider this Motion but not today when we are still reconstructing our economy.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Munir Zulu (Lumezi): Thank you, Madam Speaker. Permit me to mention that this is one of the best motions that have been brought to this House. When the hon. Member moved this Motion, he took me to what Karl Marx said, that is, “religion is the opiate of the masses”. How I wish Karl Marx had also gone further to say that politics is also the opium of the masses.

Madam Speaker, on this Motion, I have decided to rely on the philosopher Aristotle who said “The roots of education are bitter, but the fruit is sweet.” It can have a bitter fruit but it is sweet. We have private universities in this country that have grown from being a one classroom block to accommodating international or foreign students. These universities got money from the Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC). They are out there. The money we are talking about is not going to come from the pockets of Lumezi; it is going to come from the taxpayers

Madam Speaker, earlier when my good friend and hon. Colleague, the hon. Minister of Health was talking about aeroplanes, ...

Laughter

Mr Munir Zulu: ... she said that the cost of maintaining these aircrafts that do not move is higher. We have a gulfstream that is parked and is incurring costs for doing nothing. Why can we not sell the gulfstream and provide money to accommodate the students? The Act is very clear that so long as you are a Zambian citizen within Zambia, you can go to a private university. All of us in here have students in our constituencies who cannot access education facilities at the University of Zambia (UNZA), the National Institute of Public Administration (NIPA), and the Evelyn Hone College of Applied Arts and Commerce. They cannot access facilities at the Copperbelt University (CBU) not because their academic results are bad, but because there is no place for them to be accommodated.

Madam, this Government has given us free education, but after free education for primary and secondary schools, where will those pupils go? If it is a girl child, you are encouraging early child marriages. Where will the pupils go? This money is not coming from the pockets of anyone here. This money can be found. If we are failing to do this, then I will take you to a Tumbuka proverb that says “Uyo wayikabo dende wajimanya jino.” If you want to eat popcorns, you should know that your tooth is okay. You took over Government knowing very well that there are responsibilities that come with it and that responsibility is so enormous and you checked your tooth before eating the popcorns.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munir Zulu: This Motion has been moved by Hon. Eng. Kang’ombe who was a student leader at the time I was a student. We saw how difficult it was to accommodate all those who came from far-flung areas in our respective schools. People come from Mongu to Lusaka only to be told that they have not been accepted and they start going back to Mongu. People come from Lumezi and they bounce. Now, they even come to the gate here at Parliament asking for money because they have been rejected. Is this what we want to be doing? What will be the success of the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government if it does not support such a progressive and non-controversial Motion? If anything, I had hoped that there would be –

Madam Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1640 hours until 1700 hours.

[MADAM SECOND DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, before business was suspended, I was saying this Motion is an opiate of the masses; the opium that was going to heal the many students who had hope that one day, they would be able to sit in a university classroom.

Madam Speaker, it is worrying that with such a non-controversial Motion, our hon. Colleagues are using the Patriotic Front (PF) failures as a benchmark and that is the reason the PF failed. If, indeed, our hon. Colleagues in the United Party for National Development (UPND) want to fail like the PF, let them continue opposing any progressive and non-controversial Motions and we shall definitely help them to fail because it is now their wish to do so.

Madam Speaker, this non-controversial Motion is speaking to many students who had hope of receiving some good news on a good Wednesday like today. It is now becoming obvious that when certain hon. Members debate, it is to oppose. When you see Hon. Kambita get up to debate, you know the Motion is opposed.

Laughter

Mr Munir Zulu:  Madam Speaker, it is a fact. If it is not Hon. Jamba, then it is Hon. Kambita. We then know that they are opposing the Motion. Maybe, they should change the tactic so that we help them fail properly.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mwiimbu: Fail properly again?

Madam Second Deputy Speaker: I am going to allow two more hon. Members to debate. I will pick on the lady; the hon. Member for Kafue Constituency and the last one will be the hon. Member for Nalolo Constituency. Thereafter, I will invite the hon. Ministers. Hon. Member for Kafue Constituency, you may proceed.

Mrs Chonya (Kafue): Madam Speaker, thank you for this opportunity given to the people of Kafue to add their voice o the debate on this Motion, which I believe is non-controversial.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Chonya: Madam Speaker, the controversy, however, lies in the motives and the timing for presenting the Motion.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Chonya: Madam Speaker, there is no Government that would want to deny its people the right to education. In Zambia, since the days of the now late presidents Dr Kaunda, Dr Mwanawasa and even now in the New Dawn Government, there has been a very clear demonstration of how these Governments have wanted to support education. It is evident from what the New Dawn Government has done that, indeed, it is committed. I will not cite any examples because there was guidance already that what this New Dawn Government is doing to the sector is in fact evident and visible to everyone. So, there is no way the left side can actually doubt this Government’s commitment to ensuring that education is adequately supported.

Madam Speaker, however, what needs to be appreciated is that this Government is also committed to delivering not just education for the sake of it, but quality education that will, indeed, mean improved livelihoods for our people and impact positively on our economy. So, we cannot, as the Government afford to take whole the education sector budget, for instance, to supporting tertiary education because education at its various levels is all the very important. Therefore, the Government has a responsibility of balancing the act to ensure that no sector is starved or over-resourced at the expense of another sector. I liked the debate by the (Independent) Member of Parliament for Kamfinsa, who emphasised so much on the need for the private sector to come on board and be one of the providers of student loans. That is a very progressive proposal. Indeed, we need so many players to come on board because we know that this responsibility is quite heavy for it to be placed on the shoulders of Government.

Madam Speaker, I also want to acknowledge the other debater who said that what this Government is doing in many other sectors in trying to rebuild our economy is what will make the private sector thrive and be able to support education and given those loans and bursaries.

Madam Speaker, I remember during our time in the university –

Hon. Member: Moma.

Mrs Chonya: – somebody is saying moma here. It was fashionable for the so called momas that time to pay attention to boys who were sponsored by the Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines (ZCCM) and the mines that time. All these are players who can come on board to support education. The Government is working so hard to ensure that it provides an enabling environment and makes sure the partners take up those other social responsibilities while it looks at making all the other sectors vibrant. If we did not do that, we would have people coming here and saying: “let us urge the Government to give more money for social cash transfer, and to bring more money to the health sector.” That is where I talked about the ill motive of this Motion because it is urging the Government –

Madam Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Mung’andu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Second Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, I am at sea. I do not know whether it is the Indian Ocean or the Atlantic Ocean. I cannot follow the speaker debating on the Floor. The information is – the Standing Orders on relevance of speech –

Madam Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, can you cite the Standing Order that has been breached.

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, Standing Order No. 65, relevance of speech. I am at sea regarding whether or not the debater is agreeing or disagreeing. She is not adding value to –

Mr Kambita: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mung’andu: You cannot stand on a point of order.

Madam Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, let the hon. Member for Chama South wind up his point of order.

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, the debater keeps on referring to other speakers without her bringing her own thoughts on the matter. This House will benefit more if she brings her own thoughts, whether she is in support of extending these scholarships to private universities or not. We want to know the stance of the debater. As it is, we are at sea. Is she in order to keep us speculating?

I seek your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I think the way an hon. Member debates or brings out his/her points is up to him/her. There is no one who is supposed to guide another hon. Member to bend or debate in a particular way.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: It is up to the hon. Member to prepare his/her work and present it to the House the way he/she feels it should be presented. However, relevance is very important. So, may the hon. Member for Kafue please stick to the Motion on the Floor.

You may continue.

Mrs Chonya: Madam Speaker, thank you for guiding the hon. Member accordingly, because debate is about agreeing with what others have said as well as disagreeing with the views of others.

Madam Speaker, just to agree with what others have said, I just want to highlight one aspect by taking advantage of this debate. Maybe, our youths also need some encouragement in terms of changing their mindset on how they want to contribute to this economy. I know that it is a dream for most people to go to the university from secondary school. However, university, at the end of the day is not the answer to everything. I can give examples of some people who have succeeded without even passing through the corridors of a university. We have seen others who have gone through university and yet even in this House you can wonder what could have happened.

Madam Speaker, the point I am making is that there is a need for mindset change and for youths to take advantage of the other efforts that the Government is providing such as skills development. In fact, most countries that have done well economically are those that have built on an artisanal base. So, let us not look down on those students who go to other colleges or those who want to take advantage of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) to acquire skills. They can contribute to the economy in different ways apart from just seeking to be in the university to churn out paper degrees, which sometimes have shown very little value in some of the graduates who have emerged from our universities. I thought I needed to say that.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Wamunyima: Madam Speaker, I must from the outset say that I unreservedly support this Motion. First of all, I would like to say that Motions that come to this House can be futuristic. They are not Motions that need immediate implementation by the Executive, but they can be futuristic.

Madam Speaker, from this score, we must reach a stage in this House where we do not politicise development. When we look at this Motion, we see that education has been made free from Grade 1 to Grade 12. So, that means the uptake level of pupils to university has dramatically increased. That is why we are now trying to put desks in schools. This dramatic increase in the uptake to university level calls for the rethinking process on how we can increase access to higher education.

Madam Speaker, I will give an example of my own constituency. I have forty-two primary schools and three secondary schools, but the Western Province has zero universities. As I stand here, I have over twenty-five students whom I am supporting from Nalolo in various private universities and I can mention some of those universities. There is Blessings University, Mosa University, Super Shine University.

Madam Speaker, this Motion is non-controversial. Therefore, I would like the hon. Minister to look at it from the point of finding a way of probably reforming the operations of the Higher Education Loans and Scholarships Board (HELSB). This is to integrate private sector interventions. So, as the hon. Minister comes to rebut, I feel he must consider the proposal in this Motion in the sense that it can be driven by the private sector because we are talking about universities.

Therefore, Madam Speaker, saying this is a useless Motion is not correct because the hon. Minister announced last year, that 81,838 had made it from Grade 12, out of 121,871 pupils. We also heard that out of 10,000 who applied to universities, about 2,000 were accepted on the loans scheme.

Madam Speaker, this Motion can be looked at from different angles. The angle I choose to look at it is that it gives the Executive an opportunity to look forthwith in the direction of how can we increase access to higher education using private sector interventions and this is a loan scheme. We need a proper loan scheme that can integrate other students who are not getting the opportunity to get into university.

Madam Speaker, I perfectly understand that the reason the loan scheme is not catering for other universities is because the recovery rate is low. Graduates from whom the Government should be recovering are not employed. Not all of them are employed or at least I know some who are still unemployed. Therefore, it is a two edged sword. When we look at direct Treasury financing towards the loan scheme at university level, it is something that can be looked into.

However, Madam Speaker, I would like to look at it from the point that we need private sector interventions. I can guarantee you that the good news that we have free education, and we support that intervention from the Government, comes with it the consequence of having these people to graduate and go to access higher education. We cannot say we have made education free for people to be artisans and so on and so forth. There are people who should drive the formal sector as well.

Therefore, I support this Motion and would like to encourage the Government to look at it from a position where we can find a way of beginning a discussion with the private sector on reforming the operations of the HELSB. I do not know if I am the only one who is experiencing an issue whereby I have many people in the constituency who are finding it difficult to access higher education.

Hon. Opposition Members: It is everyone.

Mr Wamunyima: So, if it is all of us, we must be sincere. The time of the Patriotic Front (PF) is gone. It is the United Party for National Development (UPND) in power. Continuous reference to PF for me cannot be a benchmark. Of course, there can be sporadic reference, but we must move forward and find a way of uniting this country by developing policies that will stand the test of time.

Madam Speaker, obviously, in supporting this Motion, I would like to conclude by saying that it is a non-controversial Motion. There are many ways of looking at this Motion, other than thinking of the Treasury. We understand that this country was grappling with unsustainable debt levels, but let us look in the direction of how we begin the discussion of increasing access to higher education.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I know there are other hon. Members who wanted to debate this Motion, but just a reminder that we are supposed to debate the President’s Speech for ten days and today is the last day. So, in order for us to move forward so that we close with the President’s Speech, I call upon Hon. Nkombo, the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development to come in.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: He has gone? In that case, I call upon the hon. Minister of Education to respond.

The Minister of Education (Mr Syakalima): Madam Speaker, I wish to thank you for giving me this opportunity to say a few words. We do not support the Motion moved by the hon. Member of Parliament for Kamfinsa Constituency because at the moment, the Government does not have the fiscal space to implement the proposed Motion. However, let me be quick to indicate that the Government is carefully looking at a number of strategies that will ensure that higher education in this country is transformed and every citizen is given an equal chance to access quality tertiary education.

Madam Speaker, before I provide details of my position on the Motion moved, allow me firstly, to express my profound appreciation to His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Hakainde Hichilema for his passion to transform the education sector and for believing that education is the greatest equaliser for all Zambians. The efforts by the New Dawn Administration to make this a reality have already been demonstrated by introducing free education from early childhood right through secondary education. This is a clear testimony that education is at the core of the belief to propel the transformatory agenda of the economy of this country.

Madam, in the same spirit, I wish to commend Hon. Dr Musokotwane, Minister of Finance and National Planning for his continued guidance and taking on board the wishes of this Government to expand access to education in terms of incisive budgeting not only for the 2022 Budget but also the 2023 Budget preparation process, a process that ably demonstrates the Government’s transformation agenda for the education sector in the next five years.

Madam Speaker, indeed, in pursuit of our agenda in the education sector, we have made significant budgetary allocations to the education and skills development sector, that has witnessed many children returning to school not only at primary and secondary levels but also at tertiary level.

 

Madam Speaker, I wish to reiterate that our transformation agenda in the education sector is aimed at removing the core barriers to access education at all levels for all Zambians. We are fully aware that high tuition fees at universities are a major barrier to many students who cannot afford to pay university fees be it at public or private institutions. It is therefore, the desire of the New Dawn administration to continue reforming the HELSB scheme so that students who cannot afford to pay university fees can study regardless of their financial status. In this regard, the Government through my ministry is currently working on a baseline study that is reviewing the education sub sector with a view to ultimately proposing a reform programme. The provision of students’ loans is also included in this study. Therefore, this Government does not want to do things in a hurry or haphazard manner but to take time to look at all possible options before arriving at a sustainable mechanism that will work for both the students and the Government.

Madam Speaker, I wish to repeat what His Excellency the President stated during his inaugural speech that “it is such support during the United Nation Independence Party (UNIP) era that enabled many of us to be where we are today.” We shall always be committed to this ideal. As such, the 2023 proposed budget, subject to approval, provides concrete steps towards attainment of this goal. The Government already has provided increased access at tertiary education by more than 18 per cent since 2021 when UPND took up office. You may wish to note that the Government allocated K940 million towards the loans in 2021/2022 academic year for students in the seven public universities plus students studying abroad. This was broken down as follows:

1. 9,655 first year students received loans at an estimated cost of K220 million; and
2. 1,305 second to seventh year students received loans at an estimated cost of K720 million.

Madam Speaker, in order to implement the proposed Motion by the hon. Member for Kamfinsa, the Government will be required to provide loans to a projected average number of 30,000 first year students in all eight public universities. This is before considering any student from private institutions. The average loan amount that will be awarded per student in all the eight public universities is K33,814 which translates to K1 billion for the total projected first year students. This figure may increase further as enrolments will go up as prospective students receive news that there will be a loan scheme applicable to all first year students in public universities.

Madam Speaker, from the above trajectory, the total budget required to implement a 100 per cent loan scheme to all first year students in eight public universities and fifty-three private universities, and to administer loans to returning students in public universities in the second to seventh years will equal to a colossal sum of money which the Government may not afford. For example, the Government will need to find K2 billion to cater for fifty-three private universities with over 60,000 students.

Madam Speaker, the huge budget implications to provide loans and scholarship facilities to both public and private universities is clear that the Government does not have such fiscal space to implement the proposed Private Member’s Motion moved by Hon. Kang’ombe at the moment.

As I conclude, Madam Speaker, allow me to assure this august House that as the economy grows during the subsequent years, and more resources become available for spending in the social sectors, the Government will have the fiscal space to grant loans to students who cannot afford to pay university fees in both the public and private institutions.

Madam Speaker, I wish to reiterate that it is the intention of the New Dawn Administration not to leave any student behind because we believe in giving opportunities to everyone regardless of their financial status.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, just to demonstrate to the House how the President actually cares about universal education, in 2021, what was budgeted for was for about 2,000 students. We had to get 2,220 students. When the K65 million which was initially stolen was found, the President never even thought of anything else other than getting this money into the university.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: For the first time, the University of Zambia, which had 10,000 had to be accommodated and had more than 5,000 students. The more we recover the looted money, …

Laughter

Mr Syakalima: …the more we will take to education.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: So, those of you who got money, surrender it. Children want to go to school.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: So, this is a demonstration that the more we collect, the more we put into schools because it was demonstrated.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kang’ombe: Madam Speaker, I am grateful, once again, for allowing me to present this Motion. The motivation to research on this topic came from the fact that year in, year out, we have many young people who want to go to well known public universities. In the past days, you were either going to the University of Zambia (UNZA) or the Copperbelt University (CBU), but because of limited space at these institutions, each one of us, in our respective constituencies, receive young men and women knocking on our doors asking that we help them with our personal money…

Mrs Masebo: Wind up!

Mr Kang’ombe: …to enable them to go to university. Even when I was leaving the constituency, the conversation with the people in the community was that why can the Government not extend the current loan scheme to those who are able to other private universities? So, the motivation is not malicious. This Motion is simply about the many people out there in all our constituencies. I know very well, even as we conclude the discussion on this matter that young people out there would want to hear what the plan is, moving forwards.

Madam Speaker, a loan scheme is a loan scheme. In simple terms, a loan scheme simply means you borrow money and you pay back.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, please do not start the debate over again.

Mr Kang’ombe: Madam Speaker, I still have two minutes and fifty-seven seconds remaining.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I am not talking about time. I am talking about the content of your debate. What you are talking about was supposed to come in your earlier debate, but now it is coming towards the end, can you please just conclude.

Mr Kang’ombe: Madam Speaker, I was looking at time. I wish they had reduced it, then I would have guided my debate.

Madam Speaker, I am not reopening the debate, but appealing to the conscience of all the hon. Members of Parliament and reminding them that this Motion is about the people we chose to represent. This Motion from Kamfinsa has no political connotations attached to it. This is about the young men and women in Chongwe, Mazabuka Central and Munali constituencies that cannot be covered under skills development in the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) because it defines the programmes under CDF. This is about the future of this country. So, passionately I brought this Motion to this House because I wanted each Member of Parliament to reflect where he/she is coming from. I know that where each one of us is coming from, there are many young people who would want to see this Motion approved by the National Assembly.

Madam Speaker, I am grateful once again for allowing me to bring this Motion. I want to remind each one of us that with the modernisation of Parliament, everyone out there is watching how we are debating.

I thank you, Madam.

Hon. PF Members called for a division.

Question that, in order to increase access to higher education, this House urges the Government to extend the loan scheme to students at private universities put and the House voted.

Ayes – (51)

Mr Ackleo Banda

Mr Allen Banda

Mr Chala

Mr Chanda

Mr Chewe

Mr Chibombwe

Mr C. Chibuye

Mr Chilangwa

Ms Chisenga

Mr Chisopa

Mr Chitotela

Mr Chonde

Mr E. Daka

Mr J. Daka

Mr Kabaso

Mr Kafwaya

Mr Kalimi

Mr Kalobo

Mr Kampyongo

Mr C. Kang’ombe

Mr Kapyanga

Mr Kasandwe

Mr Katambo

Mr Katotobwe

Mr Lubusha

Mr M. Lungu

Ms T. Lungu

Ms Mabonga

Mr B. Mpundu

Mr C. Mpundu

Mr Mtayachalo

Mr Mukosa

Ms Mulenga

Mr Mumba

Mr Mundubile

Mr Mung’andu

Mr Mushanga

Mr Elias Musonda

Mr Mutale

Mr Mwale

Mr Mwila

Ms M. Phiri

Mr P. Phiri

Mr Sampa

Mr Shakafuswa

Mr Simumba

Mr E. Tembo

Mr M. Tembo

Mr Twasa

Mr Menyani Zulu

Mr Munir Zulu

Noes – (74)

Mr Amutike

Mr Anakoka

Mr Andeleki

Mr E. Banda

Mr J. E. Banda

Mr Chaatila

Mr J. Chibuye

Mr Chinkuli

Mrs Chinyama

Mr Haimbe

Ms Halwiindi

Mr Hamwaata

Mr Hlazo

Mr Jamba

Dr Kalila

Mr Kambita

Mr Kamondo

Mr Kandafula

Mr Kapala

Ms Kasanda

Mr Katakwe

Mr Kolala

Mr Lihefu

Mr Lubozha

Mr Lumayi

Mr Mabenga

Mr Mabeta

Mr Malambo

Mr Mandandi

Mr Mapani

Ms Masebo

Mrs Mazoka

Mr Mbangweta

Mr Mbao

Mr Michelo

Mr Milupi

Mr Miyutu

Mr Moyo

Mr Mposha

Mr Mubanga

Mr Muchima

Mr Mufalali

Mr Mukumbi

Mr Mulaliki

Mr Mulebwa

Mr C Mulenga

Mr Mulunda

Mr Mulusa

Ms Munashabantu

Munsanje Mr

Mr Musumali

Mr Mutelo

Mr Mwambazi

Mrs Nalumango

Mr Nanjuwa

Mr Ngowani

Mr Nkandu

Mr Nkulukusa

Mr Nzovu

Mr Peter S. Phiri

Ms Sabao

Mr Samakayi

Ms Sefulo

Mr Siachisumo

Mr Sialubalo

Mr Simbao

Mr Simunji

Mr Simushi

Mr Simutowe

Simuzingili Mr

Mr Sing’ombe

Brig Gen Sitwala

Mr Syakalima

Mr Tayengwa

Abstention – (01)

Dr Mwanza

Question that, in order to increase access to higher education, this House urges the Government to extend the loan scheme to students at private universities put and negatived.

MOTION OF THANKS

(Debate resumed)

The Minister of Water Development and Sanitation (Mr Mposha): Madam Speaker, thank you for according me this opportunity to add my voice in congratulating His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr. Hakainde Hichilema for the well-delivered visionary speech to this august House.

Some hon. PF Members walked out of the Assembly Chamber.

Hon. Member: Mwende bwino!

Mr Mposha: I also want to–

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, Hon. Minister!

Hon. Patriotic Front (PF) Whip, what is happening with your people?

Mr Nkombo: They are walking out.

Mr Kampyongo: They are consulting.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: They are consulting?

Mr Nkombo: They have gone to bring the money back.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, they are consulting each other. As you may know, there could be dogs nearby, and we may be ambushed. They are just consulting.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: May the hon. Minister continue.

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, I also want to take this opportunity to thank the mover and the seconder of the Motion and all hon. Members of Parliament who took time to debate the speech. In particular, I want to thank Hon. Given Katuta, Member of Parliament for Chiengi and other hon. Members of Parliament who made valuable observations regarding the water sector. I assure them that all their observations have been taken note of.

Madam Speaker, it is gratifying to note the consistency with which His Excellency the President has been emphasising the need to develop the water sector to ensure the attainment of universal access to clean and safe water and sanitation services. His Excellency is on record as having stated the commitment of the New Dawn Administration to increase investment in the water sector for the country to achieve national water security. This is because the New Dawn Government appreciates the critical role water plays in the socio-economic development of our country.

As a clear demonstration of the Government’s commitment to the water sector, the Government has prioritised the completion of water supply and sanitation projects to ensure that many of our people gain access to clean and safe water supply and sanitation projects in various parts of the country. In this regard, the Government has since completed a number of projects, which include the Kafue Bulk Water (KBW) Project which is expected to benefit well over 480,000 people in Lusaka. This project has added 50,000³ litres of supply per day. The Government has also completed the Kaputa Water Supply and Sanitation Project which is also expected to benefit over 25,000 people in Kaputa District. The Mufumbwe Water Supply Project which is expected to benefit 20,000 people, and has put many smiles on the faces of the people of Mufumbwe. The Shikezhi Multipurpose Dam in Kalumbila District, which is also expected to benefit well over 50,000 people in terms of access to water for domestic consumption, fishing and irrigated agricultural activities.

Madam Speaker, during his speech, the President also mentioned other on-going water supply and sanitation projects such as the Kafulafuta Water Supply Improvement Project, the Nkana Water Supply and Sanitation Project Phase II, the Integrated Small Towns Water and Sanitation (ISTW) Project among others. These projects are expected to be completed soon and they are expected to benefit way over 1.8 million people countrywide.

Madam Speaker, for the Kafulafuta Water Supply Improvement Project, I am happy to report that the Government has since disbursed over US$7 million and the project is recommencing.

Madam Speaker, allow me to address the concerns raised by the hon. Member of Parliament for Chienge regarding the water and sanitation situation in the constituency. The Government has been constructing a total of sixty-four boreholes with support from the United Nations Children's Fund (UNICEF). So far, fifty-six boreholes have been drilled, equipped and handed over to the communities with 14,500 people expected to benefit in terms of access to clean and safe water.

Madam, with regards to Chitunda Ward, the Government has planned to construct ten new boreholes for Chienge which will also cater for Chitunda Ward and other wards in Chienge District. This is anticipated to benefit around 19,750 people in Chienge District. The Government is also rehabilitating seventy-nine boreholes of which thirty-seven have been completed and handed over to the communities. This august House may wish to note that the contractor, China Giangsu Construction Group is on site.

Madam Speaker, with regards to urban water supply and sanitation situation in Nchelenge District and Chienge District, may I take this opportunity to inform the House that the Government has been implementing the Nchelenge/Chienge Water Supply and Sanitation Project. The contract for the project was signed in 2018. Currently, the progress of work stands at 10 percent. The delay in the completion of the project was due to non disbursement of funds towards the project.

Madam Speaker, I want to report that the Government has made the first disbursement of K20 million towards the implementation of the Nchelenge/Chiengi Eater Supply and Sanitation Project. The contractor has conducted a survey and marked the routes for pipe laying whereas in Nchelenge District, the contractor has installed two new water pumps, replacing the old ones. Further, the contractor has replaced a 7.3km old pipe network with a new one and has also established a permanent campsite in Nchelenge. Members of the House may wish to note that the contract expired on 6^th January, 2022. However, the Government has mobilised resources in the 2022 National Budget and the same contractor will be re-engaged to complete the remaining works.

Madam Speaker, for a long time, access to water in the rural parts of our country has remained low compared to urban areas where water supply and sanitation companies provide the services. The New Dawn Administration, in the first half of this year alone, has constructed ninety-four piped water schemes and has drilled and equipped 638 boreholes in the rural areas of Zambia. These water facilities are already benefiting a good number of various communities in our rural areas.

Madam Speaker, the New Dawn Administration will continue to invest in water-related infrastructure in order to increase the storage capacity and attain national water security. The Government will also continue to invest in water supply and sanitation infrastructure in both urban and rural areas in order to accelerate the attainment of the national aspiration as espoused in Vision 2030 on achieving universal access to water and sanitation services.

His Excellency is cognisant of the need to support our water supply and sanitation companies to improve their operational efficiencies. Therefore, the Government will continue to provide the necessary support to ensure the water utility companies attain financial viability and self-sustenance and improve service delivery.

Madam Speaker, the President has demonstrated his commitment to the development of the water sector upon which the socio-economic development of our country depends. I, therefore, thank His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, for providing policy guidance and assurances of the commitment ofthe New Dawn Administration to the development of the water sector and many other sectors alike for the benefit of our country Zambia.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Minister of Justice (Mr Haimbe, SC.): Madam Speaker, may I begin by thanking you for according me the privilege to debate the Motion of Thanks on the President’s Speech delivered on the Official Opening of the Second Session of the Thirteenth National Assembly.

Madam, from the outset, I would like to commend His Excellency the President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, for the effective and efficient manner in which this country has been run and how quickly the economy has turned around in a space of one year since the New Dawn Government assumed the responsibility of being true servant leaders for and on behalf of the people of our great nation Zambia.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Haimbe, SC.: His Excellency the President has delivered what he promised the Zambian people and, indeed, with a clear vision and direction that he has demonstrated in his address to this honourable House, there can be no doubt that our motherland is in safe hands and can continue to grow from strength to strength, going forward.

Mr Mwiimbu: Hear, hear!

Mr Haimbe, SC.: Madam, indeed, we as the New Dawn Government are relentlessly working towards actualising the aspirations of our national Vision 2030 to transform our country into a prosperous middle-income nation and catapult our economy onto a higher inclusive socio-economic growth trajectory. We are committed to moving forward on this path and never looking back.

Madam Speaker, we cannot overemphasise that democracy, the rule of law, human rights and constitutionalism remain the cornerstone for good governance which in turn is a significant pillar on which the administration of the affairs of our beloved country as espoused in the Eighth National Development Plan (ENDP) is anchored. The Government’s policy position in this regard is set out on pages 36 to 46 of His Excellency’s Address to this august House.

Madam, to realise our commitment to democracy and ensure that our citizens exercise and enjoy their civil liberties and freedoms, including the right to freedom of assembly and association as provided for by the Constitution of Zambia, the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security in collaboration with the Ministry of Justice is in the process of repealing and replacing the Public Order Act Chapter 113 of the Laws of Zambia. This process is transparent and comprehensive and involves all the stakeholders for better consensus building to establish a durable law that is anchored on broad-based consensus. I am sure the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security will expand on this aspect.

However, in the meantime, while the law is under review, we continue to walk the talk and to put skin in the game, as it were, by ensuring that the once commonplace abuse of the Public Order Act by the police and other state actors is a thing of the past.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Haimbe, SC.: To this end, today, even the most questionable political leaders can hold lone demonstrations barefoot at all manner of places …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: In a graveyard!

Mr Haimbe, SC.: … including kumanda, which means graveyard, without being harmed. This is a clear testament to our commitment to democracy and the protection of human rights.

Madam, let me hasten to say, however, that it is left to the people of Zambia to reject those who want to abuse the freedom they are now enjoying by engaging in politics of insults, lies and division. The freedom and democracy we have guaranteed the people of Zambia under the governance pillar in the New Dawn Government as explained in His Excellency’s speech must be jealously guarded by the people of Zambia who must say no to those few Zambians who have remained in the past and do not appreciate the achievements of President Hichilema and the New Dawn Government. That too is their democratic right, that is to say, no to those individuals who want to divide us even in a time when we are more united than ever.

Madam Speaker, to further realise our commitment to the protection and promotion of the rights of children in our country, the New Dawn Government has in the preceding year enacted the Children’s Code Act No. 12 of 2022 which has not only reformed and consolidated the law relating to children, but has also provided for the grant of legal aid to children and provided for the establishment of procedures for the treatment of children in conflict with the law. The enactment of the said Act is yet another clear demonstration of how President Hichilema and the New Dawn Government are walking the talk as it provides the long-awaited legal framework required to bring an end to practices that are harmful to children such as early child marriage. This is in accordance with the promise made by His Excellency in his inaugural address last year. Indeed, we are walking the talk by unlocking the potential of our children, not least the girl child, as we appreciate and understand that the children are our future.

Madam Speaker, it does not end there. In keeping with our commitment to transparency, the New Dawn Government has enacted the Public Debt Management Act No.7 of 2022 to provide for better management of public debt contraction to strengthen transparency and accountability. The Act empowers the National Assembly, ourselves, who are the representatives of the Zambian people, to provide an oversight role in debt contraction by approving loans, so that this country should never go back to the debt trap that we once found ourselves in.

Madam, to ensure that our country has harmonised penal provisions, Cabinet only recently gave approval in principle for the repeal and replacement of the Penal Code Act, Chapter 87 of the Laws of Zambia and the Criminal Procedure Code Chapter 88 of the Laws of Zambia. This will culminate in the creation of a harmonised system for criminal prosecution.

Madam Speaker, I wish to take this opportunity to urge the people of Zambia not to participate in the speculation that the proposed amendments are intended for purposes other than merely harmonising our laws. We are alive to the fact that there is debate from certain sections of society that would want to mislead the people. I want to use this platform to say that the aim of the amendments is simply to strengthen the criminal justice benchmarks of our country and make the criminal justice process more responsive to fair and just processes required in a democratic society.

Madam Speaker, as I end, allow me to remind the public through this platform that the protection of human rights, the rule of law and constitutionalism are cornerstones of good governance. As we, the New Dawn Government, are not just talking the talk but are walking the talk, we promise the Zambian people that we shall remain true servant leaders in accordance with the votes that we are given.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security (Mr Mwiimbu): Madam Speaker, I am grateful to be given an opportunity to contribute to debate on the speech by His Excellency Mr Hakainde Hichilema, the President of the Republic of Zambia, delivered during the Official Opening of the Second Session of the Thirteenth National Assembly on Friday 9^th September, 2022.

Madam Speaker, indeed, we are in the new dawn. We are in a league of nations. A number of testimonies can be made to show that we are, indeed, in the league of nations. Today, for the first time in the history of this country, we witnessed the launch of the Zambia-China Business Forum and a number of good things will arise from that particular meeting that was officially opened by His Excellency, the President.

Madam Speaker, the speech by His Excellency, the President to this House was monumental. I have been in this House for more than twenty-one years. In that period of twenty-one years of being a Member of Parliament, I have never heard or listened to a speech that was so inspiring than the speech that was delivered on 9^th September, 2022.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I noted that even my hon. Colleagues on your left, hon. Members of the Opposition, were so excited to the extent that in their debates on the Floor of this House, they gave so many accolades to the President’s Speech. That was to show that the speech was presidential, inspiring, uniting and it was intended to ensure that Zambia progresses in terms of economic development. We are so proud, and I am happy to note that even our hon. Colleagues are so proud that for the first time in the history of this country, the Opposition was so excited about the issues that were raised by His Excellency.

Madam Speaker, the speech by the President of the Republic of Zambia, inter alia, touched on the progress made to review the Public Order Act, Chapter 113 of the Laws of Zambia. The President re-affirmed unwavering desire and commitment by the New Dawn Administration to create an enabling environment in which the citizens will enjoy their freedoms and liberties, including the right to freely assemble and associate as provided for under the Bill of Rights in our Constitution

Madam Speaker, what has transpired from the time the President of the Republic of Zambia Mr Hakainde Hichilema assumed office is evident that this country is on the move. When we were in the opposition, we used to complain pertaining to the management of the Public Order Act. Currently, it is as if there is no Public Order Act. Members of the public are free to associate. During campaigns, they are able to campaign without fear or hindrance. Members of the public are proud of the record of His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia.

Indeed, as His Excellency happily put it, the Public Order Act is an archaic piece of legislation with provisions reflecting a colonial legacy and has been the subject of much public debate and court actions. Various stakeholders have called for its outright repeal and replacement due to provisions hindering the enjoyment of civil and political rights such as the freedom of association and freedom of assembly. The New Dawn Administration under the insightful leadership of His Excellency, the President Mr Hakainde Hichilema has taken a bold decision to review the Public Order Act in a participatory and transparent approach. This is a feat which can only be pursued by a leader well-bent on creating a Government of the people for the people. 

Madam Speaker, the Government’s commitment in relation to the repeal and replacement of the Public Order Act is to enhance good governance, encompassing respects for human rights, the rule of law, transparency, accountability and effective participation of citizens in national affairs.

Madam Speaker, let me inform the general public through this august House that the review of the Public Order Act has reached an advanced stage. The Draft Bill will soon be handed to Government for further action. The Government remains resolved to the fair application of the Public Order Act in order to promote good governance. The New Dawn Government will continue to uphold the democratic dispensation in the country and accord every citizen the enjoyment of human rights through the creation of a conducive legal environment. All stakeholders are urged to abide by the provisions of the Public Order Act as it is, in order to enjoy full freedoms and liberties.

Madam Speaker, with regard to good governance, rule of law and constitutionalism, the resolve by the United Party for National Development (UPND) to flash out political cadres from the bus station and markets is commendable and shall not be changed.

Madam Speaker, as Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security, I want to make it very clear that the Government of His Excellency the President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, shall never, allow cadreism in bus stations, markets and public places. The President has given a directive that we shall not look at political affiliations for those who are going to disregard the guidance that has been given by His Excellency, the President. I would like to warn those who are now trying to go back to the bus station and markets and create anarchy that the long arm of the law shall visit them.

Madam Speaker, I also want to state that although we have made a commitment that we are going to review the defamation of the President’s provisions, let people adhere to the current provisions of the law and ensure that we do not degenerate. We have noted that there are certain members of the public and in particular, certain leaders who have the propensity of insulting the President every day. The provision pertaining to the defamation of the President is still in force. Do not blame us when the law enforcement agencies visit you. Our responsibility as Government is to ensure that provisions of the law, as currently obtaining, are enforced and implemented.

Madam Speaker, I also want to state that we have never stopped anyone from demonstrating, but demonstrations must be undertaken in a civilised manner and in accordance with the values of Zambians. If you are given the right to demonstrate, it does not auger well and it is against the spirit of Christianity to go to a graveyard and start appealing to our ancestors to give you blessings. That is unchristian, that is unholy, that should be condemned by every right thinking Zambian.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Syakalima: Thank you, Madam Speaker. Let me begin by thanking the President of the Republic of Zambia, His Excellency, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, for his refreshing speech given during the Official Opening of the Second Session of the Thirteen National Assembly on Friday, 9^th September, 2022.

Let me also state, Madam Speaker, that my ministry is in full support of the theme, “Working Together Towards Socio-Economic Transformation: Stimulating Economic Growth for Improved Livelihoods.” The theme could not have come at a better time than now when as the New Dawn Administration, we are endeavouring to stabilise, repair and revive our economy through various socio-economic interventions.

Madam Speaker, my ministry commends His Excellency, the President, for securing approval from the International Monetary Fund (IMF) for support towards Zambia’s home-grown economic programme, which puts us on a course to restructuring our debt. This will certainly keep up the much need resources to support the implementation of the free education policy as espoused in the Eighth National Development Plan (8NDP). In this regard, my ministry, therefore, wishes to commend His Excellency, the President, for the increased school grants. It is gratifying to note that the New Dawn Administration launched the 8NDP for 2022 to 2026, which has prioritised the provision of education under the strategic development area of human and social development. This guarantees the Zambian people of the access to the much needed quality education service for improved livelihoods.

Madam Speaker, my ministry further welcomes the prioritisation of research and development as one of the key enablers of the transformation agenda. This will ignite the research potential that has been untapped in our universities and research centres to spur innovations for development and create more jobs. Further, this will promote Science, Technology, Engineering, Mathematics (STEM) education which my ministry has been implementing in order to develop a cadre of young, innovative minds.

Madam Speaker, it is also pleasing to note that the New Dawn Administration has set electricity and petroleum products as key enablers of the transformation agenda, which has seen an increase in electricity generation. This effort is critical in ensuring equitable provision of alternative modes of education, especially to the rural schools. This will also enable learners based in rural communities to access the various learning platforms available on various media which require the availability of electricity. This will be augmented with the digital transformation strategy which has been developed as it will enhance internet connectivity for schools for purposes of enhanced learning.

Madam Speaker, my ministry is further pleased that the New Dawn Administration did away with longstanding encumbrances such as tuition and examination fees and is now providing free education in public schools from early childhood to secondary school, so that more of our children who were unable to attend school can be given an opportunity to do so. This has resulted in an influx of children returning to school. This clearly shows that there were many children who were deprived of education. This has been evidenced by the increase in the number of learners from 4.3 million to 6 million after free education was introduced.

Madam Speaker, my ministry further wishes to appreciate the New Dawn Administration’s commitment to ensuring equity in education provision. It is delightful to note the commitment to continued paying of boarding fees and provision of education grants for the disadvantaged adolescent girls to encourage the girl child to remain in school, as well as the continuation of the implementation of the Keep Girls in School (KGS) initiative which has seen approximately 59,000 girls currently benefiting from the project. In the same line, it is appreciated that the Government is focusing on improving the school environments to ensure conducive learning environment, especially for the girl child by creating more separate toilets and water and sanitation and hygiene facilities. To this effect, The New Dawn Administration is targeting to provide sanitary towels to over 145,425 adolescent girls in schools.

Madam Speaker, my ministry further supports the need to enhance quality learning environment. This will ensure the creation of additional learning classroom space across the country by constructing 120 secondary schools across the country. As at now, the preliminary works are underway, that is, citing of locations where the secondary schools will be built. Additionally this commitment will enable the completion of the construction of all the stalled secondary schools from the 115 secondary schools which are at various construction levels.

Madam Speaker, my ministry applauds His Excellency, the President, for directing that no school-going child should sit on the floor by the end of 2023. To this effect, my ministry will continue with the ambitious exercise to leverage the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) to locally source desks for schools. This is in addition to the funding that has already been granted for provision of desks under my ministry.

 

Madam, as the Ministry of Education, we wish to commend the New Dawn Government for taking health services close to our people. It is intriguing to note because we believe that this will consequently promote access to quality health services and ultimately result in the promotion of human resource development. Our philosophy is that education and health are linked. Educational outcomes are related to health status and health outcomes are related to education. In addition, health and success in school are inextricably intertwined. Good health facilitates children’s growth, development and optimal learning, while education contributes to children’s knowledge about being healthy.

Madam Speaker, my ministry further commends the New Dawn Administration’s commitment in the fight against corruption as the core component of the strategy not only to enhance transparency and accountability in the administration of public resources but also as a matter of justice in the way we deliver socio-economic dividends to our people. To this effect, my ministry will continue delivering the curriculum responsive to prevention of corruption in order to have a corruption-free Zambia.

Madam Speaker, as I conclude, allow me to assure this august House that as the economy grows during the subsequent years, and as more resources become available for spending in the social sectors, the Government will have the fiscal space within which to attain the Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs), particularly SDG No. 4, ensuring inclusive and equitable quality education and promote lifelong learning opportunities for all. I wish to reiterate that it is the intention of the New Dawn Administration not to leave anyone behind and it believes in giving opportunities to everyone to be able to access education regardless of their financial status.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Minister of Lands and Natural Resources (Mr Muchima): Thank you, Madam Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to contribute and appreciate the President’s Speech. I have been in Parliament now for sixteen years. When I measure the leadership scores, I see that the United Party for National Development (UPND) seems to be topping the list.

Madam Speaker, allow me first of all to look at the speech as a whole, then I will come to –

Mr Katakwe: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Katakwe: Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order pursuant to our Standing Order No. 204 on the decorum of the House.

Madam Speaker, when the hon. Minister of Education was propounding the Motion, the hon. Member of Parliament for Kanyama and his hon. Colleague, Hon. Mapani were busying pointing fingers at the hon. Minister and saying he was a prefect at Choma Secondary School. The hon. Member for Kanyama was a head boy and Hon. Mapani was food captain and he used to starve these two people hence the representation of his body structure.

Laughter

Mr Katakwe: Madam Speaker, they are busy laughing here. Are they surely in order to sit here and disturb such a wonderful debate by the hon. Minister?

Madam Speaker, I seek your ruling.

Madam Second Deputy Speaker: Fortunately, we did not hear what was being discussed in that corner. So, it did not disturb the debate by the hon. Minister. Proceed hon. Minister.

Mr Muchima: Madam Speaker, the speech by His Excellency the President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema touched on socio-economic interventions, improved welfare of the Zambian people, fiscal disciplin, transparency, accountability, protecting public finance, transforming the country into an industrialised nation, locking various economic opportunities and wanting to work together for socio-economic transformation. This is why he has to stimulate economic growth for improved livelihood and also poor resource allocation which was witnessed in the past, reckless borrowing, debt defaults, and failing to manage the economy. He wants home grown reform programmes and job creation. That is what I will talk about before coming to Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources.

Madam Speaker, the President is spot on. He is not a man of rhetorics, but actions. He has started with teacher recruitment, which is not a mean achievement, but a great achievement for the Zambians. We have heard other people saying “can we eat teaching?” However, it is through a teacher that wealth is created. All of us are here because of education. You neglect your education, you are doomed. You educate so many people, you can export product in doctors and engineers. They will be employed out there and they will be bringing in wealth.

Madam Speaker, it was sad to have one teacher in a school to teach Grade 1 to Grade 7 and people were boasting that they were doing great. That is why I said I have been in this House for sixteen years. What I saw in the past ten years was shocking, ...

 

Mr Syakalima: Under the Patriotic Front (PF).

Mr Muchima: ... under the Patriotic Front (PF).

Laughter

Mr Muchima: They were too quick to dance than to look at the people they were entertaining. When we go round the country, we notice that they left everyone behind including, those in the PF strongholds.

Rev. Katuta: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Syakalima: Why? You are not PF.

Mr Muchima: Madam Speaker, this is the cancer President Mr Hakainde Hichilema wants to brush aside. He has started, and he is in an action mode. Firstly, he has recruited 11,000 nurses, 30,000 –

Mr Andeleki: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Second Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Andeleki: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for allowing the people of Katombola to rise on a very serious point of order. I apologise to the hon. Minister and senior Member of this House for interrupting his thought process. My point of order is premised on the provisions of Standing Order No. 27 which deals with the working hours of this House as read with Standing Order No. 202, Privileges of Members.

Madam Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order on what our hon. Colleagues, the Patriotic Front (PF) and some Independent hon. Members have done by walking out of House. I need a very serious ruling stating whether they are entitled to today’s sitting allowance and whether they are not stealing from this Government.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, that point of order is very important because when we are elected by our people, we were called Members of Parliament. This is Parliament where all hon. Members are supposed to gather and represent their people. At the same time, you, hon. Members are allowed to move out of the House, maybe to caucus. However, as at now, I do not know whether the Patriotic Front (PF) hon. Members will still come back. The PF Chief Whip had indicated that they were caucusing outisde. We are going to look into that so that we verify if truly some of the PF hon. Members have gone for good when they are supposed to be in this House.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, we are behind time. I indicated in the beginning that we have to wind up this debate. We cannot carry it forward to tomorrow. It just has to be concluded. So, for that reason, I am going to allow the last hon. Member for Chienge to raise her point of order. Thereafter, I am not going to allow any points of order so that we allow the hon. Ministers to respond. Then, we close this session, so that we move on. We have the Budget presentation on Friday, which again, we have to start debating all over. So, hon. Member for Chienge, what is your point of order?

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order pursuant to Standing Order No. 65, on how information that is given on the Floor of the House should be verifiable. The hon. Minister of Lands and Natural Resources is talking about the immediate past Government and that its members were just dancing and so on and so forth.

Madam Speaker, whatever the hon. Minister says, in debating the Motion of Thanks, is supposed to be Government policy. Is the hon. Minister in order to tell the nation that what he is saying is part of the policy of the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government?

Madam Speaker, I need your serious ruling.

Madam Second Deputy Speaker: I think on that one, I will just guide the hon. Minister and urge him to ensure his debate is in line with the President’s Speech, so that we move on because people are listening. Can we please hear the hon. Minister of Lands and Natural Resources support the President’s Speech. Hon. Minister, you may proceed.

Mr Muchima: Madam Speaker, I am picking up certain clauses in the President’s Speech. I am actually drawn to where the President talked about fiscal disciple, transparency, accountability and protecting public finance. I am saying, for the past ten years, in this country, there was wastage of government resources, poor management and leaving many people behind.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muchima: When you go round the whole country, you will find nothing tangible and infrastructure is in a deplorable state. The projects which our friends embarked on during elections campaigns to appease voters are incomplete.

Madam Speaker, President Hakainde is saying he has to put his management upright and has already begun filling in those gaps by providing proper leadership through fiscal prudence. First of all, he has to unite the people of Zambia. When he is distributing the wealth of this country, it is going to every corner of the country. In the past, we saw resources limited to certain quarters of the country. Today, we can feel fresh air blowing from west to east and north to south. Everyone feels they are now Zambian. Yes, it feels great to be a Zambian. We lost it for the past ten years, and President Hakainde Hichilema looked at that as failing management. Indeed, we had gone too far in cherishing ourselves instead of growing our economy and reforming it. The President himself has embarked on creating jobs. I am a very proud person to be serving under President Hakainde Hichilema.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muchima: His speech is like a hymn in a church. It was very interesting to listen to and he is walking his talk. Just in one year, he has shown that he is a true leader of the country. How about if he is given four or ten years? More is going to come. Look at how we are now being cherished by the neighbours. Everywhere we go, Zambia is now on the spotlight and everyone wants to come and learn.

Madam Speaker, the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) used to be K1.6 million, which came in piecemeal and only three times in ten years. However, just in his first year in office, the President has increased CDF to K25.7 million and the money has gone everywhere without even begging for it. That is the way you are supposed to manage the people of Zambia.

Madam Speaker, when it comes to job creation, Zambians should not just think of white collar jobs. Even indirectly, as you operate your companies in a fresh and conducive atmosphere, you will recruit people. That is job creation. The youths of today should not just look at being recruited in offices. You can even make more money when you are empowered. Through skills development in technology and science in schools, they will be independent like the way it is in Zimbabwe. The Zimbabwean Government has devised a curriculum that targets skills from primary school.

Madam Speaker, we are making progress and the President is, indeed, a serious man. One person said that President Hakainde Hichilema wants to run the country as a business. If you do not run it as a business, how then do you want to run it? Should it be run as a social welfare? Where will you be getting the revenue? It is business that creates employment or jobs.

Madam Speaker, Zambians will never repeat whatever was seen those years. Today, you can go to Soweto Market or anywhere else and you will not find any cadres. We do not even know where those cadres have gone. They were brandishing pistols everywhere and restricting people from campaigning. A few days ago, I was in Kitwe where there were election campaigns. You could not even feel it. During the days of our friends, oh my Lord, they were so serious. There was so much tension. Why should that be the case in your own country?

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Muchima: This is the governance that the President talked about in his speech. President Hakainde Hichilema wants to cherish governance that is all inclusive and which brings all people on board.

Mr Kampyongo remained standing.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Minister!

Whip for the Opposition, sorry, we had ruled that we are not going to take any more points of order for the sake of progress.

Hon. UPND Members: He has just come back.

Mr Muchima: Madam Speaker, with the few minutes remaining, let me talk about my ministry.

Laughter

Mr Muchima: There are serious concerns in my ministry, beginning with the Lusaka East Forest No. 27. Indeed, my ministry is working hard together with the Ministry of Green Economy and Environment to address issues surrounding this forest.

Madam Speaker, women will also be given an opportunity to own land. There will be land reforms and we are worried about the corruption that has engulfed our ministry, that we are working on day and night. The issue of double allocation of plots will be a thing of the past.

Madam, if you gave me an opportunity to speak longer, I would have done so. I thank you very much.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I call on the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development. To avoid points of order, let us be focused on the President’s Speech.

The Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi): Madam Speaker, I thank you for this opportunity to place on record my thanks to the well delivered speech by His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, during the occasion of the Official Opening of the Second Session of the Thirteenth National Assembly on Friday, 9^th September, 2022.

Madam Speaker, the theme of the President’s Speech, “Working Together Towards Socio-Economic Transformation: Stimulating Economic Growth for Improved Livelihoods”, is a clear and timely call for all Zambians to come together and start building on the foundation laid by the New Dawn Government in its first year in charge of the affairs of our Republic.

Madam Speaker, the President clearly elaborated the New Dawn Government’s determination and resolve to improve the welfare and wellbeing of the Zambian people. The President put forth the many achievements scored in one year of being in office.

Madam Speaker, the President was emphatic in stating that the New Dawn Government, unlike some past Governments, has prioritised fiscal discipline through enhanced transparency and accountability to protect public resources. As a country, we are grappling with a huge debt because of fiscal indiscipline and a failure to account for public resources by the previous Government.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, as the President rightly put it in one sentence, those who were responsible for the affairs of the nation failed to manage the economy on behalf of the Zambian people. That is why the Zambian people gave them a red card.

Madam Speaker, the transparency and accountability demonstrated by the New Dawn Government has already won this Government and the country the confidence of our creditors and many investors, both local and foreign. Within one year, major economic indicators such as inflation, the exchange rate, economic growth and foreign reserves are already registering positive outlooks in line with our plan to stabilise the economy.

Madam Speaker, the President was categorical in restating the New Dawn Government’s commitment to the economic transformation of our country through industrialisation, with the full participation of our citizens, particularly the private sector. The President clearly stated that the New Dawn Government is unlocking economic opportunities for our citizens in the private sector to drive the economic transformation agenda and create jobs for improved livelihoods of our people.

Madam Speaker, the New Dawn Government, under His Excellency the President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, is moving in a methodical manner ...

Mr Mukosa: Question!

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Eng. Milupi: ... in addressing the challenges faced by our people, created by the lack of prudent economic management of the recent past, because our friends were certainly not methodical in the way they were doing things.

Madam Speaker, the President adequately addressed the measures being taken by the New Dawn Government and the results so far achieved in turning around the misfortunes of our people resulting from the poor leadership of the recent past. Our people must remain hopeful knowing that servant leadership is here and is focused on delivering on all the campaign promises and even more than the campaign promises we made.

Madam Speaker, the President shared with the House the Government’s plans to enhance trade with our neighbours and beyond through infrastructure development. As Government, we want to lay a strong infrastructure base that supports an export oriented industrialisation and economic transformation agenda. The President informed the House that the Government was moving with speed to improve and modernise border infrastructure and transform them into one stop border posts. The President informed the House on progress in improving connectivity with the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) through Kasumbalesa, Mokambo, Sakanya, Kambimba, Kipushi and Chalwe through public-private partnerships (PPP) and the Treasury.

Madam Speaker, the Government believes in equity and taking development to all parts of this country; to urban and rural areas alike. It is the reason the President chose this particular theme for his speech to inspire all of us to work together in unity and develop all parts of the country.

Madam Speaker, the President believes that no one should be left behind in our development agenda. Development is not just for those in urban areas, but also for our brothers and sisters in rural areas as well. The President, therefore, was spot on when he provided some progress that we are recording in uplifting the lives of our people in rural areas through improved connectivity. Indeed, as reported by the President, connectivity is improving in rural areas and over 1,000 km of rural roads have been rehabilitated and improved.

Mr Kampyongo: Question!

Eng. Milupi: In addition, improved connectivity in rural areas will spur increased agricultural production from easy access to inputs and markets.

Madam Speaker before I conclude, it is necessary to advise ourselves as a nation of certain basic and fundamental principles on which we should not differ regardless of the political leaning or political parties that we belong to. These are matters of decency and matters that unite us all. However, too often, we have seen now, political opposition bent on doing nothing but opposing even when things are going well.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Eng. Milupi: It is said, Madam Speaker, that if you look at our predecessors, you will see that in spite of the fact…

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order.

Eng. Milupi: … that they were not able to keep 99 per cent of their promises, and from 2012, we were following them on their promises.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order hon. Minister1

The Whip, is it a compelling, very important point of order that we can –

Interruptions

Mr Kampyongo: Very compelling, Madam Speaker.

Eng. Milupi: He is enjoying the speech.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: You can go ahead and raise your point of order.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I have been sitting here with my hon. Colleagues trying to pay attention to the policy statement from the hon. Minister. Of course, we are concerned that the quorum for hon. Ministers is not even adding up. There are seven hon. Ministers present out of the whole Cabinet. Is this president, whose party belongs to the alliance, in order to accuse us here of doing nothing when he knows that we are people’s representatives here sent to provide checks and balances to his Government? If he expects us to be praise singing, that is not our job. They have been on this side of the House for more than twenty years, and we never accused them of what he is trying to say. Is he in order to – Madam Speaker, he has put aside his policy statement and has opted to attack us here where we are legitimately representing our people and providing checks and balances. Is he in order to continue on that trajectory, trying to consolidate his alliance with the President?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Thank you hon. Member, I think your –

Mr Kampyongo: I seek your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, I do not think we are able to measure the performance of each one of us. So, as you wind up, please, speak to the President’s Speech without attracting unnecessary points of order.

You can wind up, hon. Minister.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, many are seeking for relevance…

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Eng. Milupi: …and they will say many things. It is beyond us to react to them. Some even go to grave yards to demonstrate on issues where there is no need to demonstrate.

Hon. PF Members: Ah!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order hon. Minister!

I do not think the issue of grave yards was in the President’s Speech. Can we please focus on the President’s Speech.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Can we become relevant to the speech that was delivered by the President. You can move on, hon. Minister.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, the issue of the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) is very clear.

Mr Chitotela: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mukosa: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Hon. UPND Members: Ah!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, we are behind time. Can we allow the hon. Minister to wind up.

Hon. Minister, please wind up.

Eng. Milupi: The issue of FISP, Madam Speaker, is very clear. This Government has retained the same number of recipients who were there in previous years.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Eng. Milupi: In fact, we have increased the number of bags. Others were getting two and others zero, in previous administration, but they are now getting more. All that this Government is doing is cleaning up by making sure that these resources are going to the deserving people. There is nothing to demonstrate. In additional to that, the President talked about economic growth. If we follow clearly what it is, the direction in which he is pushing this country, which country is endowed with resources given to us by the Almighty Father, if we develop them in the manner that the President is pushing this country, there will be so much that the acrimonious politics that we see based on sharing very little will disappear.

Mr Mabeta: Correct!

Eng. Milupi: Sayings like pakwakana ubunga, tapaba insoni will disappear because we shall have everything for everything.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: What is the meaning of what you have just said hon. Minister?

Eng. Milupi: Meaning when you are sharing mealie meal, there is no shame. There are people who say that.

Mr Kampyongo: Question!

Eng. Milupi: That is only said when the resources are scarce.

Mr Mabeta: Correct!

Eng. Milupi: What President Hakainde is doing is developing this economy so that the resources should be abundant.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

The hon. Minister’s time expired.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I will allow the last debater to speak for just five minutes, so that we have time for the hon. Member for Kabwe Central to wind up debate.

Mr Mulusa (Solwezi Central): Madam Speaker, thank you allowing the people of Solwezi Central through me to add their voice to the debate on the President’s Speech, which was humbly presented by His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Hakainde Hichilema on 9^th September, 2022.

Madam Speaker, when the President was presenting his speech, his body language was very clear, and many Zambians appreciated the fact that now, we have leadership in this country. When the President talked about the bad economy that we found in negative two, and the recent growth, he gave hope to the people of Zambia that now we have leadership in this country. Even as the President speaks, people are seeing a lot change.

Madam Speaker, the gross domestic product (GDP) has grown from negative two to positive 3.5 per cent, which has never happened in this country. Inflation has also grown from 24 per cent to a single digit of 9.8 per cent. The dollar is now trading at K15 to US$1 from K24. This has led to a reduction in most commodity prices in this country. I know that many Zambians are enjoying the leadership of His Excellency, President Hakainde Hichilema. When we talk about the Zambian economy today, I can proudly say that there is sanity.

Madam Speaker, let me quickly go to the most debated issue, which is mining. As you may know, I come from the North-Western Province, the new Copperbelt, and I am not ashamed to say that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government failed to manage the mines in this country. It sis said that a bird in hand is worth two in the bush. When they had an opportunity of serving the people of the Copperbelt, they knew that they were broke. People were advising the PF Government and it did not listen. Let me read something from the Zambia Chamber of Mines in 2020 and it reads:

“Zambia should treat mineral royalty payments as a deductable expense in order to avoid double taxation and attract investment. Since 2019, mineral royalty payments have not been treated as a deductable expense when calculating corporate tax and that provision was kept unchanged in the Government’s annual Budget unveiled on Friday. The effect of this is that mining companies end up being taxed on income that has already been paid as a royalty, a situation referred to as double taxation. Reversing the provision could unlock series of investment approvals and kick-start the economic recovery.”

Madam Speaker, this was an advice from the Zambia Chamber of Mines and the people on your left did not listen. At the time they were broke, they decided to take over Mopani Copper Mines they had no money to run that. Today, they want to speak very loudly over Mopani Copper Mines and Konkola Copper Mines (KCM) which they failed to manage at that time.

Madam Speaker, I come from Solwezi where there is Kansanshi Mine. Even this same mine was closing down because of the people on your left. They could not listen. May I take this time to appreciate His Excellency, the President and the New Dawn Government for making sure that Kansanshi, Kalumbila and Lumwana mines in the North-Western province are saved. Had the PF won the 2021 elections, today, there would have been no mines in Zambia. They would have gone out. So, on this point, give chance to the New Dawn Government to find investors to run Mopani Copper Mines and KCM in peace. At the time they had chance, they failed to find investors and to negotiate. This time around, the people on the Copperbelt must have trust in the New Dawn Government because we have a capable Government that can bring investors to start running Mopani Copper Mines and KCM.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulusa: That is what we want. This Government is not chipantepante, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, I know I have only been given five minutes and so, with these few remarks, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Halwiindi (Kabwe Central): Madam Speaker, thank you so much for giving another chance to the people of Kabwe Central to wind up debate on the Motion of Thanks on the President’s Speech delivered before this House on 9^th September, 2022. Special thanks go to the seconder of the Motion, the hon. Member of Parliament for Nkana, Hon. Binwell Mpundu and all the hon. Cabinet Ministers and hon. Members of Parliament who debated objectively.

Madam Speaker, the speech spoke to the successes of the New Dawn Government and that is undisputable. Many people are aware that the Government has done a lot, and that is giving hope to the people of Zambia. In his speech, the President said that the Government is going to attain economic transformation. May I be quick to mention that if the previous Government failed to attain economic transformation, it does not mean that even the New Dawn Government will fail. The New Dawn Government has already succeeded and it has given hope to the Zambian people. Let me also mention that I read a very good book where there were 400 men who competed against one man. They thought they would manage to light fire at the altar, but they failed. However, one man managed to light the altar. I can equate that to our President who is an economist and chief marketing officer of this country. He has proved that he is transforming the economy of this country and the people of Zambia have hope in him. I call upon all hon. Members of Parliament to co-operate, unite and work together with the Executive to transform this Government –

Hon. Members: Not Government, but nation.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order hon. Members! Can we give the hon. Member chance to conclude. She is winding up. Hon. Member, can you please conclude.

Ms Halwiindi: Madam Speaker, we must make sure that we work together and transform the economy of this country. As hon. Members, we should not to poison our people by spreading negative messages that are not in line with what the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government is doing. I urge all well-meaning Members of Parliament to make sure they take good messages to their people. That way, there will be cooperation and we will change this country. Once the economy of this country is transformed, even what we are crying for; the Government offering loans to students in private universities will definitely be attained. However, we need to make sure that we support the economic transformation.

Once more, I thank the people who supported this Motion. My special thanks go to the hon. Member of Parliament for Kaumbwe, Dr Mwanza, and the hon. Members for Chasefu and Roan. I urge them to help us enlighten our people and fellow hon. Members who are still in the dark and do not believe in this vision.

Madam Speaker, with these few remarks, I beg to move.

Question put and agreed to.

ADJOURNMENT

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

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The House adjourned at 1859 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday, 29^th September, 2022.

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