Wednesday, 21st September, 2022

Wednesday, 21^st September, 2022

The House met at 1430 hours

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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ANNOUNCEMENT BY MADAM SPEAKER

DEBATE ON THE MOTION OF THANKS TO THE PRESIDENT’S ADDRESS

Madam Speaker: Hon Members, I have one announcement and one ruling to make. The announcement is that the House will recall that debate on the Motion of Thanks to the President’s Address commenced on 13^th September, 2022. In accordance with Standing Order 19 of the National Assembly of Zambia, Standing Orders, 2021, the debate lasts for ten sitting days. Therefore, the last day for debating the Motion is Wednesday, 28^th September, 2022.

In this regard, and by practice, the last three days are reserved for the Executive to debate and respond to the issues raised by the backbench. This means that starting from Friday, 23^rd September, 2022, priority will be given to hon. Ministers to debate the Motion before its wound up on Wednesday, 28^th September, 2022.

I thank you.

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RULING BY MADAM SPEAKER

POINT OF ORDER RAISED BY HON G. G. NKOMBO, MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT, AGAINST MEMBERS OF THE PATRIOTIC FRONT WHO WALKED OUT OF THE HOUSE ON TUESDAY, 12^TH JULY, 2022

Madam Speaker: Hon Members will recall that on Tuesday, 12^th July, 2022, when the House was considering Question for Oral Answer No. 358 and Mr E. Kamondo, Member of Parliament for Mufumbwe Constituency was about to ask a follow-up question, Hon. G. G. Nkombo, Minister of Local Government and Rural Development raised a point of order. In his point of order, Hon. G. G. Nkombo, MP, asked whether the hon. Members of the Patriotic Front (PF) party were in order to have walked out of the House. The hon. Members walked out following a ruling by the hon. Mr Second Deputy Speaker that Mr D. Mung’andu, Member of Parliament for Chama South Constituency, was out of order for challenging the decision of the Chair.

Hon. G. G. Nkombo, MP, stated, among other things, that the hon. Members who had walked out of the House had drawn sitting allowances for that day on false pretences. He further stated that the said Members did not intend to work for the Zambian people, a job they were elected to perform. He, therefore, asked whether Mr D. Mung’andu, MP, and the PF hon. Members were in order to fraudulently collect money in sitting allowances by walking out and not returning to the House against their responsibility to conduct business on behalf of the people who voted for them.

In his immediate reaction to the point of order, the hon. Mr Second Deputy Speaker reserved his ruling to enable him to study the matter and render a measured ruling. Hon. Members, I have since studied the matter and I will now render my ruling.

Hon Members, the point of order raises the issue of the propriety of hon. Members of Parliament walking out during a sitting and later collecting the sitting allowance for that sitting.

The erstwhile Speaker, Rt. Hon. Dr Patrick Matibini, SC, MP, had occasion to rule on a similar matter on Tuesday, 19^th November, 2015. The erstwhile Minister of Local Government and Housing, Hon. Stephen Kampyongo, MP, raised a point of order against United Party for National Development (UPND) hon. Members for merely registering their presence in the House and thereafter walking out of the House. This is in the National Assembly Parliamentary Debates of 18^th September to 10^th December, 2015, pages 1867 to 1871. In that ruling, he said, among other things, at page 1870 as follows:

“Hon Members, I will now address the ethical conduct or morality of hon. Members registering their presence in the House and walking out of Parliament immediately thereafter leaving the Chamber, and never to return to the House for the rest of the day for whatever reasons or cause. Such conduct is not only dishonourable and dishonest, but is also unbefitting of the status and dignity of an hon. Member. Worse still, this action is also tantamount to obtaining pecuniary advantage by false pretences contrary to Section 309 (a) of the Penal Code Act, Chapter 87 of the Laws of Zambia. In essence, it amounts to a criminal offence for which a Member may, on conviction, be liable to imprisonment for five years.

I, therefore, urge all hon. Members to refrain from conducting themselves in such a dishonest and dishonourable manner. Consequently, I hereby and forthwith direct the Clerk’s office to take note of any such Member or Members who merely register their names and purport to be present and yet abscond from the House, so that appropriate action may be taken without further notice or recourse to such Member or Members.”

Hon. Members, in the aforesaid ruling, a number of walk-outs had occurred, which led to the point of order that was raised by Mr S. Kampyongo, MP.

Hon. Members, let me hasten to state that walk-outs are a permissible form of protest and as such, do not, in themselves, constitute a breach of the rules of the House. However, the conduct of walking out of the House and not returning for the rest of the House’s sitting, while collecting allowances, is not only dishonest and dishonourable, but is also criminal offence as stated by my predecessor.

Hon. Members, in the present case, the hon. Members of the PF walked out in protest following a decision of the hon. Mr Second Deputy Speaker against Mr D. Mung’andu, MP. In this regard, the Business of the House was well underway before the concerned hon. Members proceeded to walk out in protest.

Hon. Members, from the foregoing, it is clear that the PF hon. Members of Parliament walked out in protest and did not merely register their presence, before walking out, as alleged. They were, therefore, not out of order.

I thank you.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

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QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

PRINTING OF BALLOT PAPERS FOR KWACHA AND KABUSHI CONSTITUENCIES

29. Mr Kapyanga (Mpika) (on behalf of Mr Kafwaya (Lunte)) asked the Vice-President:

where the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ) printed the ballot papers for the by-elections for the Kabushi and Kwacha Parliamentary Constituencies and the Luangwa Council Chairperson; and
why stakeholders were not engaged at the following stages as per established practice:i

printing;
parcking;
transportation;
receiving;
storage; and
distribution.

The Minister of Defence and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr Lufuma): Madam Speaker, the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ) floated the tender for the printing and delivery of ballot papers using the Open International Competitive Procurement method with six to eight weeks floatation period in 2020. Bids we received and evaluated according to the Public Procurement Act. Subsequently, Al Ghurair Printing and Publishing LLC emerged as the most competitive and responsive binder. A contract was signed between Al Ghurair and the commission for the period of two years to print ballot paper booklets, including posters, blind voter templates and results announcement forms.

Madam Speaker, this information was shared with the public prior to the 12^th August, 2021 General Elections and it is in public domain. Al Ghurair Printing and Publishing LLC in Dubai in the United Arab Emirates (UAE) has been printing ballot papers and other election related materials as the contract is still running. Attached is a list of elections and by-elections held after the 12^th August, 2021 General Elections. If you want, I can go through it, but it is too long. Therefore, the ballot papers for the by-elections for Kabushi and Kwacha Parliamentary Constituencies and Luangwa Council Chairperson were printed by Al Ghurair Printing and Publishing LLC in Dubai.

Madam Speaker, the following are the reasons stakeholders were not engaged at various stages of the process:

the process of printing ballot papers starts soon after nominations. Respective candidates and/or representatives are given a sample ballot paper to verify and sign off before commencement of printing. This was the case with these three by-elections, which are both the ones on the Copperbelt for Kabushi and Kwacha, and the one in Luangwa;
ballot papers for the three by-elections were delivered on Monday, 12^th September, 2022, at 1430 hours at the Kenneth Kaunda International Airport (KKIA) using the Emirates Airline. Verification of ballot papers for the Luangwa Council Chairperson by-election was conducted on Tuesday, 13^th September, 2022, in the morning in Lusaka at the ECZ headquarters. All participating political parties/candidates were invited to attend the verification process and in attendance were representatives from the Leadership Movement (LM), Patriotic Front (PF), Socialist Party (SP) and United Party for National Development (UPND);
the ballot papers for the Luangwa Council Chairperson by-election were delivered after the verification in Lusaka. Another verification exercise was conducted in Luangwa with stakeholders on Tuesday, 13^th September, 2022, in the afternoon at the Luangwa Civic Centre. All participating political parties and candidates were invited to attend the verification process and in attendance were representatives from LM, PF, SP and UPND. The Independent candidate did not attend despite being invited; and
the ballot papers for the Kabushi and Kwacha Parliamentary Constituencies by-elections could not be verified on account of the court matter. The ballot papers for Kabushi and Kwacha Parliamentary Constituencies by-elections were not dispatched to Ndola and Kitwe respectively. They are being kept at the ECZ offices in Lusaka.

Madam Speaker, you may wish, therefore, to note that the commission does not stop any stakeholders, including political parties and candidates from witnessing the printing of ballot papers in Dubai or from wherever the ballot papers may be printed in accordance with the contract that might have been procured. This was the case with the printing of ballot papers for the 12^th August, 2021 General Elections. Therefore, political parties and/or candidates that may wish to witness the printing of ballot papers are encouraged to do so, but will have to meet their own costs.

Madam Speaker, may I take this opportunity to reaffirm the commission’s commitment to providing necessary information on the subject matter.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, I thank the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House for that answer. In this case, were stakeholders invited to go and witness the printing of ballot papers in Dubai and then they refused on their own or they were altogether not invited by ECZ?

Mr Lufuma: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for the follow up question. I categorically said they were no invitations in this instance as per practice. When it is a by-election, ECZ does not invite anybody to go and witness the printing of ballot papers. In fact, not even ECZ staff go to witness the printing of ballot papers. It is just a matter of a procurement process that is undertaken and ballots come here. After the ballots arrive, they are verified by respective interested candidates and all parties involved in the election.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, we appreciate the responses that are coming from the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House. I had posed a question to Her Honour the Vice President, which I will put to the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House. There was an Independent candidate who was to participate in the Kwacha Constituency Parliamentary by-elections who pulled out citing two main reasons. The first one was lack of transparency in the manner –

Mr Mposha: He was sponsored.

Mr Kampyongo: Whether sponsored or not, why are you scared?

Mr Mung’andu: All candidates are sponsored actually.

Mr Kampyongo: All candidates are sponsored, if the hon. Minister is not aware.

Madam Speaker: Order, order!

Mr Kampyongo: Hon. Ministers are engaging me, Madam Speaker.

Mr Madam Speaker: Yes, let us not engage –.

Mr Kampyongo: I do not know where they are getting this ignorance of saying that candidates are sponsored.

Madam Speaker: Let us not engage while seated. Hon. Member for Shiwang’andu, you are a Whip, so let us just stick to the question. Ask your supplementary question.

Hon. Members, let us not engage the hon. Member who is asking a question, please.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, a self sponsored Independent candidate pulled out of the Kwacha Constituency Parliamentary by-election race citing three reasons. Top of those reasons was lack of transparency and that there was no engagement between the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ) and the participating candidates in so far as the ballot papers and sample ballot papers are concerned, meaning that they did not have sight of how the ballot papers were going to be in order for them to verify. In his response, the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House has, on one hand stated that the candidates were given a chance to verify the details on the dummy ballot papers. What then was the reason for this candidate to pull out and we did not get any official response, …

Hon. UPND Members: Ah!

Mr Kampyongo: …confirming –

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Shiwang’andu! Ask the question.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, it is very important because when hon. Members start –

Madam Speaker Hon. Member for Shiwang’andu, let us not debate. You are a senior Member of the House and you know the rules. Let us not debate. Just ask the question to avoid all this unnecessary heckling. Proceed with your question.

Mr Kampyongo: Hon. Acting Leader of Government Business in the House, why did we not get the official response from ECZ to either dispute the issues that the participating candidate raised, so that we can have credibility in these processes?

Mr Lufuma: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu for his question. He said there were three reasons but he only gave one, which is lack of transparency. As far as ECZ is concerned, it did execute its mandate to the latter. At nomination time, which also involved the Independent candidate the hon. Member is talking about, immediately after nominations, the sample nomination form is signed by respective candidates including the one who decided to resign later. That is a verification process which means one is basically saying: “I am on the ballot paper, I have signed, this is my face and the party on whose ticket I am standing.” That was done by all candidates transparently.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lufuma: Everybody who was interested was able to witness as such. As for the reason this particular Independent candidate decided to resign, I do not think that is within the purview of ECZ. That is entirely up to him. We have no reason, whatsoever, to ask him why he resigned.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lufuma: If he did not tell the citizens why he resigned, well, that is his own problem. We have no mandate to go and ask him why he resigned. So, please, hon. Member, if you have an issue with that, see the Independent candidate and he will be able to furnish you with the reasons.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chitotela (Pambashe): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for his responses. For the first time, why was the delivery of ballot papers in the just-ended by-elections marred in secrecy? Previously, we could hear the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) TV announcing the arrival of ballot papers, whether in a by-election or general elections. Why was it that this time around, the arrival and distribution of ballot papers was marred with secrecy?

Mr Lufuma: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Pambashe for the question. There was no question of this exercise being marred in secrecy. I do not know the exact date, but immediately the ballot papers arrived, I think that was on a Monday, the next day, Tuesday, all the participating parties were informed to go to ECZ and verify the ballot papers. So, there was no secrecy. Everybody who was participating was informed and they came to verify the ballot papers at ECZ headquarters. So, there was no secrecy concerning the same. This has been the practice. It is not only in this particular by-election, but it has been practiced in all by-elections. When ballot papers come, they are inspected, distributed to the respective sites. At respective sites, they are inspected again, verified and thereafter, the election is executed. That is the process. So, there was no secrecy.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Madam Speaker, even as I ask this follow up question, I want to indicate that the electoral processes that we utilise to undertake elections must always be credible not only for our generation, but also those to come after us.

Madam Speaker, is the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House aware that there is a perception that the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ) is not conducting itself professionally in as far as the three by-elections that were scheduled and a subject matter for today? If he is not aware, what steps is the Government taking to deal with this public perception that the ECZ is not conducting itself professionally?

Madam Speaker: Order Hon. Members!

I believe our Standing Orders are very clear on the nature or manner in which we ask questions. Standing Order 65, Content of Speech, states that:

(2) A member who is debating shall not –

impute any improper motives to the President, Vice-President or any other member;

Now, if we are talking about perceptions, is that perception factual? Also 65 (1) (b) talks about information that is verifiable. So, when a hon. Member is asking a question and saying the perception is this and that, I do not think that is a proper way to ask a question because that is not factual, that is a perception. We are basing a question on perception. A question must be clear to the point, so that an appropriate answer can be provided.

Mr Mushanga (Bwacha): Madam Speaker, looking at, or listening to hon. Members of Parliament and all the questions posed so far, as well as those yet to be posed, does the New Dawn Government have any plans of avoiding such speculations? Does it have plans of printing ballot papers within the country? If yes, when? If not, why?

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members are allowed only one question. So, the question is does the Government intend to print the ballot papers in Zambia? The second part of the question will not be responded to.

Mr Lufuma: Madam Speaker, as I had intimated, we have a running contract with a firm in Dubai that I mentioned. That running contract goes for two years. So, until that running contract comes to a logical end, we shall continue to print any by-election papers with that particular company. However, after the running contract comes to an end, I think that is speculative, it can either be here or anywhere else. So, I am not able to give the hon. Member a definitive answer as to whether it will be here in Zambia or it will continue to be abroad.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: I believe the ‘why’ has been provided.

Ms Sefulo (Mwandi): Madam Speaker, thank you for allowing the people of Mwandi to ask a follow up question. I want to ride on the question that was asked by the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu. In his statement, he indicated that the Independent candidate had withdrawn from the by-election race because of irregularities by the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ). In the same article where the hon. Member is basing his argument, I also read that there is information that the said Independent candidate withdrew because he was bought by a political party that is present in this House.

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Ms Sefulo: I have not mentioned anyone. So, my question is: –

Madam Speaker: Order hon. Member for Mwandi!

A point of order is raised.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, the rules of this august House are very clear. I am rising on a point of order pursuant to Standing Order No. 65 which says matters that you bring on the Floor of this august House must be verifiable and must be proven.

Madam Speaker, my question to the Acting Leaders of Government Business in the House was premised on the official letter that the Independent candidate wrote to ECZ.

Interruptions

Mr Kampyongo: You are not Speakers, just shut up.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Madam Speaker: Order!

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker–

Madam Speaker: Order hon. Member for Shiwang’andu!

This is not the first time I have heard that utterance from the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu.

Mr Chikote: This is a second time now.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order hon. Members!

This is a dignified House. We have a specific language that we are supposed to use. “Shut up” is definitely unparliamentary. I expect more from the senior Member of this House who is also a Whip of the Patriotic Front (PF). May the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu withdraw that phrase and apologise for using it.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I withdraw that word, but I want to be assisted. The debating of –

Madam Speaker: Withdraw and apologise..

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, like you have rightly said, I do not use unparliamentary language, and that is well known. However, we should also look at what triggered it. The misconduct of our hon. Colleagues on your right, especially Members of the Frontbench, of debating and heckling whilst seated is becoming unbearable. I withdraw that phrase and apologise to the hon. Colleagues who are continuously making noise. They also need to observe the decorum of this august House.

Madam Speaker: Order hon. Members!

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, back to my point of order–

Madam Speaker: Yes, we will proceed to your point of order, but let me say one thing. When we just opened, I said the issue of integrity and respecting ourselves starts with us, individually. Respect is mutual. Please, let us not use unpalatable or annoying words when we are debating. There is order. I refer each individual hon. Member to Standing Order 204. When you go home or have a break, go through that Standing Order and let it sink. Appreciate what the Standing Orders demand and require of each hon. Member. If action is taken against an hon. Member for either heckling or making noise, you should not complain. Please let us maintain the decorum of the House. The respect is mutual. I respect you hon. Members and in the same vein, I should also be respected. When hon. Members start heckling, there is disorder in the House and that means you are not giving me due respect as a presiding officer. Please, give me that little respect. I think I deserve it.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I am profoundly humbled by the guidance you have provided. I, therefore, withdraw the words I used and apologise to you as our presiding officer for that utterance.

Madam Speaker, my point of order, as I stated, is pursuant to Standing Order 65, which states that we are supposed to be factual and ensure that whatever we present on the Floor is verifiable. Is the hon. Member of Parliament for Mwandi in order to make insinuations as she is trying to pose a question, by stating that the Independent candidate who withdrew his candidature or resigned from participating in the Kwacha by-election was bought by a political party present here, when she cannot show proof to that effect.

Further, Madam Speaker, is the hon. Member in order to cite sources of her information, which cannot be proven to this august House?

I seek your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members on the far back, please. I do not know how many times I should repeat myself. To the extent that the hon. Member of Parliament for Mwandi mentioned that the candidate who withdrew was bought without providing proof, she is out of order. May the hon. Member for Mwandi redirect her question.

Ms Sefulo: Madam Speaker, my question has been interrupted. Before that, I wanted to find out if the Government has done anything to investigate claims that we have read in the newspapers that this person was actually bought. That was going to be my question. Otherwise, it was just rudely interrupted. I did not mention any name.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order, order!

So, the question is: is the Government investigating the allegation that the Independent candidate was bought?

Mr Lufuma: Madam Speaker, may I inform the hon. Member that as long as there is some iota of truth in the allegations, we have our operatives on the ground to investigate. Should they find any reason that person actually resigned, and that it is against the laws, the law will take its course.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr J. E. Banda: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, thank you for giving the good people of Petauke this opportunity. The people of Zambia are looking at out of this House. They voted for us to deliberate on important issues in this House.

Madam Speaker, Standing Order 57(1) states that:

“A member may only speak when called upon by the presiding officer.”

However, hon. Members here are just making noise without even being called upon by the presiding officer. I need your serious ruling, ...

Laughter

Mr J. E. Banda: …because the people are looking for outcomes from this House.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Parliament for Petauke Central, if you were with us when I made a ruling, you would have known that I made a ruling on that issue and specifically requested each hon. Member of Parliament to go and study Standing Order 204. That is the homework for every hon. Member of Parliament. I think we should now be giving homework.

Laughter

Mr Munir Zulu (Lumezi): Madam Speaker, whenever our country is going through an election, there is a lot of anxiety. Does the hon. Acting Leader of Government Business in the House not think that most of these wrong decisions that could be made are as a result of not having Commissioners at the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ) for quite some time now? Ordinarily, we should have five Commissioners to make sound decisions for the country and for all of us here to continue enjoying the peace that we have enjoyed. Does the hon. Acting Leader of Government Business in the House not think that it is time the commission employed Commissioners?

Madam Speaker: Order!

The issue that we are dealing with right now is that of ballot papers. I believe a question was raised here on the election of Commissioners as a matter of urgent public importance. I had guided that a question should be put in. So, if that question has not been submitted, the hon. Member of Parliament for Lumezi is also free to put in a question on that matter, so that we do not take the hon. Acting Leader of Government Business in the House by surprise. I am sure he is not prepared for that question.

Madam Speaker gave the Floor to Mr Nyambose.

Mr Nyambose: Madam Speaker, I had written a note that I want to debate the Motion of Thanks, today.

Laughter

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: That has been taken note of. I thought the hon. Member wanted to ask a question. Hon. Members, I am using the e-Chamber and the Bosch system, so I am alternating.

Mr Chibuye (Roan): Madam Speaker, the hon. Acting Leader of Government Business in the House has indicated that the contract for Al Ghurair Printing & Publishing LLC of Dubai is running for two years. I want to find out from the hon. Acting Leader of Government Business in the House whether our own Government Printers participated in this bid, and if it did, what could have gone wrong for it not to be responsive?

Mr Lufuma: Madam Speaker, I inform the honourable House that prior to the 2021 elections, there was an open international bidding process, which was undertaken, and the Government Printers participated in the bid. Unfortunately, it did not win the bid. This is why we went for Al Ghurair Printing & Publishing LLC of Dubai, which won the best-evaluated bid. So, Government Printers participated but it did badly.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Madam Speaker, the hon. Acting Leader of Government Business in the House has told this august House that the printing of ballot papers commences immediately after the filling of nominations. So, I want to find out whether the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ) takes into account Article 52 (4), which makes provision for someone to challenge the nomination within seven days in order to avoid wastage of public resources.

Mr Lufuma: Madam Speaker, unfortunately, I did not get the question. If he does not mind, I would like him to repeat, so that I can adequatelyattend to his question.

Madam Speaker: May the hon. Member repeat the question.

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, since the hon. Acting Leader of Government Business in the House stated that the printing of ballot papers commences immediately after the filing of nominations, I was asking whether ECZ takes into account Article 52(4) which provides for any person to challenge a nomination of a certain candidate so that we avoid wastage of public resources.

Mr Lufuma: Madam Speaker, the best response I can give to the hon. Member’s question is that the matter or the interpretation of the Articles he referred to will be done by the courts of law and the issue is still before the courts of law. Let us wait for the courts of law to interpret and then we shall be furnished accordingly.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mabumba (Mwense): Madam Speaker, I listened very attentively to the hon. Minister, and he is saying elections are normally a process and not an event, going by the questions that are being asked.

Madam, with that said, the hon. Minister indicated that the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ) has a running contract for two years with a Dubai printing company. Was that information shared with all the political parties that participated in the Luangwa by-election and the cancelled Kabushi and Kwacha elections?

Mr Lufuma: Madam Speaker, that information was not shared or given to respective candidates or parties because it was not found necessary for us to communicate that information to everybody. We just came out of an election and after the election, we did not float any tender again because there was this running contract. So, we did not inform the respective candidates or parties, however, the assumption is that they knew.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chitotela: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, the point of order is on this august House and it relates to the proceedings of 15^th September, 2022 when I raised a Matter of Urgent Public Importance concerning the procurement of motorbikes. I want to quote your ruling, in which you said:

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Pambashe, the rules are very clear. Maybe, I can just guide before –

Mr Chitotela resumed his seat.

Madam Speaker: If you have any complaint for a matter that has not happened in relation to today’s sitting, the best way to proceed is to write a letter of complaint. So, if you have any issue arising from the sitting of 15^th September, which is about seven days ago, please do write a letter of complaint.

Mr Chitotela: I have just received a letter from your office.

Madam Speaker:It is true, but write a letter of complaint. Can we make some progress?

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Madam Speaker, I did not get the exact date when the ballot papers arrived in the country, but I would like to ask this question.

Madam, there are candidates who were supposed to participate in these elections. In the event that there were any mistakes, how long was it going to take the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ) to correct them? Based on how the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House hon. Minister is responding, I am having challenges understanding the period of receipt of these ballot papers, the period of inspection and the date when we were supposed to have the elections.

Madam, this is my second term and I have never heard of some of the procedures he was talking about, of verifying the ballot papers. When did the ballot papers arrive in the country and on which dates were the verifications conducted? I just want to know because what I am hearing now is contradicting what I have experienced as a second-time Member of Parliament who has checked the ballot papers before.

Mr Lufuma: Madam Speaker, I thank you and I thank the hon. Member for Chienge. I like the way she pronounces her constituency. Not Chienge but Shiengi.

Laughter

Mr Lufuma: Madam, the ballot papers arrived on 12^th September, 2022. The elections are supposed to have been done on 15^th September, 2022. When they arrive, as I said, they are verified. You are asked to verify and the ones for Luangwa, for instance, were verified at the ECZ immediately after they came in. When they went to the site in Luangwa – I am taking Luangwa because it was executed while the others were not –they were verified again. In the meantime, there is quality assurance by ECZ itself to check if there are any mistakes at all. When they arrive, they are verified to ensure there are no mistakes because before they arrive they are verified or quality checked by ECZ itself. So, there is no issue of ballot papers not being in the state that they are supposed to be.

Madam Speaker, after the ballot papers arrived on 12^th September, 2022, there was verification for Luangwa on 13^th September, 2022. For Kabushi and Kwacha, there was no verification because the issue was in court. So, we could not unpack and start verifying the ballot papers until the court made an order.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chilangwa (Kawambwa): Madam Speaker, listening to the answers given so far by the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House –

Rev. Katuta: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, my point of order is on the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House. Perhaps he did not get my question because he has not responded to it.

I need the hon. Minister to answer. He stated that the ballot papers came on 12^thSeptember, 2022 and the elections were on 15^thSeptember. We have never verified our details two days or a day before the actual election. I want him to respond so that we know. If there were mistakes on the ballots, how was the commission going to handle them two days prior to the voting date?

Madam Speaker: Hon. Acting Leader of Government Business in the House, maybe, you can just go through the answer again. Sorry we are going backwards now.

Mr Lufuma: Madam Speaker, there is no question of mistakes because as soon as nominations are done, everything at that stage is checked and the candidate signs against the nomination and certify that everything that is contained on that document is correct. That paper is then taken and deposited with the printers. As soon as the printers start printing, they send a sample of the ballot paper back to the ECZ, which does the quality assurances and ensures that there is no mistake.

Madam Speaker, after the quality assurance verification by ECZ is done, that is when the company that has been contracted to print starts printing. So, when ballot papers come back in boxes, there is no mistake at all, because they would have gone through this quality assurance process. I do not know whether I have answered adequately, but I assure you that once the ballot papers come back, there is no mistake at all. It is completely correct and ready for election.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker: What I am not clear on is whether there was a mistake, which the hon. Members want to bring out because it not coming out. If, indeed, there was that mistake, do I take it that some hon. Members are not happy with the outcome of the Luangwa by-election and it should be nullified?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: That was on a lighter note, of course.

Laughter

Mr Chilangwa: Madam Speaker, the Luangwa by-election is a foregone conclusion. If it was to be nullified and redone, the winners will still win and even by a bigger margin.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Ask your question hon. Member. It was on a lighter note.

Mr Chilangwa: Madam Speaker, it was also on a lighter note.

Laughter

Mr Chilangwa: Madam Speaker, the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House has informed us that the ballot papers arrived at the Kenneth Kaunda International Airport and they were then transported to the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ) premises for verification.

Madam Speaker, in the past, the procedure has been as follows:

on the day that ballot papers arrive at the airport or any port of entry, a notice is sent to all participants and interested parties to witness their arrival and verify them at the airport before they are transported to ECZ.

Madam Speaker, suppose, in the course of transportation from the airport to ECZ, some of those ballot papers grow legs for other reasons, how would ECZ account for the same? That is my question.

Madam Speaker: I think let us try to ask factual questions.

Mr Lufuma: Madam Speaker, the procedure that the hon. Member is talking about is one that is undertaken during the General Elections. I am afraid that it is a yes. That is during the General Election. When the ballot papers are arriving, the parties concerned are informed and they go to the airport to receive and witness the arrival of those ballot papers. Thereafter, there are verifications.

Madam Speaker, when there is a by-election – and this is not the first time we have conducted by-elections. By-elections have been conducted by the Patriotic Front (PF) in numbers and that is exactly the procedure that has been undertaken. The ECZ right now is not the ECZ that we have just instituted today. It has been there before, and this is the process that it has been using. The ballots arrive and they are taken to ECZ and then ECZ calls all interested parties to verify at that stage. It is not the other way round. So, that is the correct position for the General Elections, but not for by-elections. The by-elections procedure is as I have outlined.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker: I think we are now going in circles. I will only allow only four more questions.

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Madam Speaker, in one of his responses, the hon. Minister indicated that there was a contract which was signed for two years, meaning the Government could not change the printer because there was already a contract running with one. Now, help me understand which Government signed that contract.

Mr Lufuma: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Dundumwezi for that very pertinent question.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lufuma: Madam, it is not the New Dawn Government that signed that contract. To the contrary, it is our hon. Colleagues, the Patriotic Front (PF) who singed that contract and all we are doing is respecting the contract that they signed.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Madam.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, thank you for allowing me to raise this point of order on the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister is carrying the Government and therefore, we expect factual responses. My point of order is premised on Standing Order No. 65. The Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ) as we know, is provided for in the Constitution of Zambia as a standalone institution, which is supposed to be an independent institution. Is the hon. Acting Leader of Government Business in the House in order to insinuate that the Patriotic Front (PF) as a party, signed any contract –

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order! Hon. Members, we do not have to repeat what you are advised. Let us maintain the decorum of the House, please. May the hon. Member continue.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, like I said, I think by now, my hon. Colleagues should have known that now they are in Government and so, they should know how Government operates. Therefore, was the hon. Minister in order to insinuate that the PF, as a party in Government then, signed a contract between itself and Al Ghurair Printing and Publishing LLC, a company in Dubai which prints ballot papers?

Madam Speaker, I want this to go on record because Government responses go on record. Therefore, was the hon. Acting Leader of Government Business in the House in order to be carried away in that fashion?

Madam Speaker: Since the onus is on the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House, to state exactly what he said, instead of me saying it, maybe the hon. Minister can answer and state what he exactly said when he was answering that question.

Mr Lufuma: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker, for giving me this opportunity. There should not be any confusion here. It is a straightforward question that was asked by the hon. Member of Parliament for Dundumwezi, asking which Government signed the contract. All I did was answer which Government was in place at that time, and that was the PF-led administration.

Interruptions

Mr Lufuma: It was not the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD).

Laughter

Mr Lufuma: Not even the United National Independence Party (UNIP). Those are simple facts for a simple question, and I think I did well to explain as I did. Unfortunately, it does not sit well with my hon. Colleague. However, that is a fact and facts cannot be contested.

I thank you, Madam.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much. I am sure the point has been clarified. The hon. Member for Chinsali may ask his question.

Mr Mukosa (Chinsali): Madam Speaker, the hon. Member for Chama North asked a question which was not addressed adequately. In his question, he quoted Article 52(4) of the Constitution, which says:

“A person may challenge, before a court or tribunal, as prescribed, the nomination of a candidate within seven days of the close of nomination and the court shall hear the case within twenty-one days ...”

Madam, the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House said that the printing of ballot papers commences immediately after the filling in of nominations. Following that response, the hon. Member asked the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House to confirm if the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ) does not wait for that period that is provided for in the Constitution. Now, in his answer, the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House said that this matter is in court and that the Government is waiting for a response from the court. I feel that the answer provided did not address the question by the hon. Member. I am one of the people, among others, who is interested to know the response that will come from the Government. I would like to ask the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House to revisit his answer so that we can hear what the actual answer is.

Hon. Government Members: Ah!

Madam Speaker: I think the question was answered. It was answered, and the specific question was: Did the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ) take into consideration the seven days window for anybody to challenge the nomination? That was the question. If you ask straight questions, then we will not have to be unclear. Just ask a specific question which is clear; do not bring in too many issues because then, the answer will be lost in too many words. You can repeat the question.

Mr Mukosa: Madam Speaker, maybe, I should ask the hon. Minister. I am not referring to the elections that passed. He said that the printing of ballot papers commences immediately after the filing of nominations. So my question is: Does the ECZ not wait for that period that is given to those who are aggrieved to challenge the nominations, the moment that is completed, that is when it commences the printing of ballot papers? I need your answer, Acting Leader of Government Business in the House.

Mr Lufuma: Madam Speaker, the commission basically observes the provisions of the law, including providing a window of seven days. It does.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Mutale (Chitambo): Madam Speaker, the hallmark of an election is transparency, and I am sure what is being questioned here is the process. In the past, according to the answers I have got, things were not done in the correct manner for by-elections, where involved parties were invited to the airport to receive and inspect ballot papers for by-elections and also verify them again when they were being loaded to their final destinations. Is the Government willing to change that rule so that there is so much transparency such that when those ballots arrive, everyone is invited to check and verify. Again, when they are being loaded to various destinations, everyone is invited to check, verify and sign them off. Is the Government willing to change the process so that these questions do not arise again?

Mr Lufuma: Madam Speaker, it is my considered view that that is a small issue. It is a very small issue. It is very important for transparency, and it is small in that it can be done. It is a matter of communicating with all parties concerned that the parcel is arriving at such and such a time. All that others have to do is transport themselves to the airport at no cost because ECZ will not bear any cost at all. They can check it and transport it back. So, I do not see any hurdle at all. It is an administrative issue and it can be done. So, thanks very much for that. If it adds to transparency, this New Dawn Government is a listening Government and we shall do exactly what you wish to be done.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kapyanga: On a point of order, Madam Speaker:

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order pursuant to Standing Order No. 204(g), which says that a member shall listen in silence to the debates in the House. Even when you guided a few minutes ago that we give you the honour and respect that you deserve as our presiding officer, the hon. Member of Parliament for Mbabala, who, if he is not making running comments, likes catching a nap, continued to run commentaries when the hon. Members of Parliament for Chinsali and Shiwang’andu were asking questions.

Madam Speaker, is he in order to defy your very wise guidance? I seek your very serious ruling.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, the issue of running commentaries has been coming both from the right and the left, and I duly guided and ordered hon. Members to observe and comply with Standing Order 204. I even said there is going to be home work tonight for hon. Members to refresh their minds on the provisions of Standing Order 204. Maybe, tomorrow when we come we come, we can have decorum in the House. So, if the hon. Member for Mbabala was making running commentaries while the hon. Member for Chinsali was trying to ask his question, then the hon. Member for Mbabala was out of order. Unfortunately, he is the last one I was going to give the Floor to.

Laughter

Mr Munsanje (Mbabala): Madam Speaker, when a party that lost by over 1 million votes comes to this House to –

Madam Speaker: Order hon. Member for Mbabala! Do not attract running commentaries. Just ask a supplementary question, please.

Mr Munsanje: Madam Speaker, the reality on the ground is that I wish to ask a question.

Laughter

Mr Munsanje: Madam Speaker, my question is that the doubting of the verification process by those who asked a question about the verification process, because they lost by 1 million votes. Does this confirm that they are panicking because they are smelling another loss?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: I will ask the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House to respond.

Mr Lufuma: Madam Speaker, thank you very much hon. Member for another very pertinent question.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lufuma: Madam Speaker, it is difficult for me to say, but all indications point to the fact that they might be scared.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: When you start hearing the nature of questions and answers I think it is time to make progress.

PROCUREMENT OF MEDIA EQUIPMENT FOR ZANIS IN GWEMBE

30. Mr Simuzingili (Gwembe) asked the Minister of Information and Media:

whether the Government has any plans to procure media equipment for the Zambia News and Information Services in Gwembe District;
if so, when the plans will be implemented;
what type of equipment will be procured; and
if there are no such plans, why?

The Minister of Information and Media (Ms Kasanda): Madam Speaker, the Government has always had plans to equip all Zambia News and Information Services (ZANIS) offices in all districts across the country. This plan has been on-going and in our 2022 Budget, the Government through the Ministry of Information and Media budgeted for the procurement of a set of assorted equipment, namely digital and video cameras as well as public address systems for provincial ZANIS offices. Through the said 2022 Budget, the ministry has since procured the said equipment for all the ten provinces. Going forward, the ministry’s plan is to continue allocating resources in its annual budgets for procurement of ZANIS equipment. In that regard, a substantial amount has been allocated in the 2023 Budget.

Madam Speaker, the plan for procuring equipment for ZANIS has been on-going. As I have stated, an allocation for the same was made in the 2022 Budget. Furthermore, an allocation has been made in the 2023 Budget. As I have alluded to earlier, the ministry’s plan is to continue allocating resources to its annual budget for the procurement of ZANIS equipment.

Madam Speaker, ZANIS being a Government mouthpiece requires various modern media equipment. This equipment includes among other things, video and still cameras, computer sets and public address systems. Therefore, this is equipment the ministry has been procuring and will continue to procure in future both for the headquarters and the district offices.

Madam Speaker, as I stated in my earlier response, the ministry has plans to procure necessary assorted media equipment for ZANIS. Therefore, procurement of the said equipment is on-going.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Simuzingili: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for those good answers. We appreciate that the Government bought equipment for the provinces. However, Gwembe was established in 1947, and it is therefore, seventy-five years old. None of us here is seventy-five years old.

Hon. Member: Me!

Mr Simuzingili: Madam Speaker, in the seventy five years of existence of Gwembe, the ZANIS office has never had a camera. In the last ten years, the office has had a desk and a chair. This time around, we have a very intelligent young man with a pen. How much does a camera cost? Hon. Minister, the people of Gwembe are appealing to the Government to use the contingency fund to procure a digital camera for them. Gwembe is endowed with gas, oil and coal, but we cannot have investors, reason being…

Mr Mushanga: There is no camera.

Mr Simuzingili: …there is no camera.

Laughter

Hon. Member: There is no publicity.

Mr Simuzinjili: Madam Speaker, there is no publicity. The international world is not aware of what Gwembe has to offer. The plea of the people of Gwembe is that you procure just a camera for them.

Madam Speaker: The hon. Member for Bwacha was debating while seated in contravention of what I had earlier said.

Ms Kasanda: Madam Speaker, we do appreciate the importance of dissemination of information as a ministry. I assure the hon. Member of Parliament that we are buying equipment for all the provinces. Soon, we will be going down to districts as soon as we have these funds available. Furthermore, let me just mention that as Government, we are saddened to learn that for the past seventy-five years, Gwembe has not received any camera, yet there was a Government in office a just a few years ago.

Hon. Member: Especially the previous one.

Ms Kasanda: Madam Speaker, what we understood was that the previous Government was very categorical when it said that it was able to take development across the country. I am surprised to learn that Gwembe was not part of the country and it did not receive this equipment.

I assure the hon. Member that we will definitely procure cameras for the district.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kalimi: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kalimi: Madam Speaker, I raise a point of order on the hon. Member for Gwembe pursuant to Standing Order No. 65. Is the hon. Member of Parliament for Gwembe in order to insinuate that there is no person who is above seventy-five years old here when the hon. Minister of Housing, Infrastructure and Urban Development is above seventy-five years old?. I need your serious ruling, Madam.

Madam Speaker: Is the hon. Member for Malole stating a fact or he is also speculating?

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I think let us make progress. The hon. Member for Gwembe has asked a question and it appears he is satisfied. We want to leave enough time for hon. Members to debate the President’s Address. So, let us make progress.

COMMERCIAL BANKS LOADING ATMS WITH SMALL KWACHA BILLS

31. Mr Mutale (Chitambo) (on behalf of Mr Kasandwe (Bangweulu)) asked the Minister of Finance and National Planning:

why the Bank of Zambia allows commercial banks to load small Kwacha bills into Automated Teller Machines countrywide, thereby rendering the process costly for clients due to many withdrawal charges for those who withdraw large amounts;
whether there are any plans to stop the practice;
if so, when the plans will be implemented; and
if there are no such plans, why?

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane): Madam Speaker, the Bank of Zambia (BoZ) is the sole issuer of legal tender that is banknotes and coins in the Republic. The current family of currency in Zambia is made up of ten denominations; six bank notes and four coins. The notes are K100, K50, K20, K10, K5 and K2. The coins are K1, 50n, 10n, and 5n. It is the responsibility of the bank to ensure that the currency circulating is optimal by ensuring that there are enough qualities of the various dominations in circulation to meet the different needs of the cash users.

Madam Speaker, in arriving at the optimal mix of denomination, the bank relies on the principle of least effort, that is, the settlement of cash transactions should on average involve as few coins and or bank notes as possible. The bank will continue to distribute all the denominations to meet the needs of the transacting public particularly, the unbanked population. It is important to note, however, that if commercial banks only load their Automated Teller Machines (ATMs) with high denominations, it means the lower end cash users would be having difficulties to smoothly transact. All the denominations are needed in the economy.

Madam Speaker, as to whether or not there are plans in place to stop the practice, as I have just indicated, the denominations are already optimal and so, there is no further plan.

Madam, in view of the answer at (b), part (c) of course, does not apply.

Madam Speaker, part (d) of the question has also been explained. I believe I have answered the questions.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mutale: Madam Speaker, I am very grateful. The question arose from the complaints that members of the public brought to my office owing to the fact that during the month-end when people get paid, most banks have a tendency of loading Automated Teller Machines (ATMs) with small denominations of currency –

Mr Mung’andu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, my point of order is in pursuant to Standing Order No. 129. It says the Vice-President or a minister may ask for permission from the Speaker to present a statement in the House on behalf of the Government on any matter falling within his or her portfolio in case of a minister.

Madam Speaker, I rise on this important point of order on the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development.

Madam Speaker, you are aware that the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) was established under the Constituency Development Fund Act –

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, before you proceed, has the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development made any statement today on the Floor of this House?

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, this is the reason I am raising this point of order. Why has he not made a statement when he is acting contrarily to what is contained in the Constituency Development Fund Act?

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, you know the rules, and the procedure is that if a point order has to be raised, it has to be in relation to what has happened on the Floor of the House. I cannot even see the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development. He is not here, and he is nowhere near here. Maybe, you can ask that question at an appropriate time. In terms of timing, I think your timing is wrong. So, that point of order will not be admitted. May the hon. Member for Chitambo proceed.

Mr Mutale: Madam Speaker, before the point of order was raised, I was about to say most banking institutions load their automated machines with small denominations of currency, especially at the month end. This is resulting in loss of money, especially for lowly paid employees. This is because they have to withdraw many times for them to get the amounts they want. This is also resulting in the forming of long queues at the ATMs, especially during the month end.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister able to investigate these banks to find out whether this issue of loading small denominations of currency at the month end is deliberate, so that they make more profit? In addition to that, is it a way of wanting to release some small denominations to the public?

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, in my statement, I indicated that the responsibility of BoZ is to every citizen. This is in the sense that if you are, perhaps, a high income person, the kind of notes that you need tend to be on the high side. However, there are also millions of our citizens out there who need small denominations. When many of us go to our constituencies, where we buy a chicken or fish for K5 or K10, you find that when you have carried a K20, K50 or K100 note, it is hard to get change.

Madam Speaker, what I am trying to say is that the denominations of currency are all relevant or important, that is the big and small ones. It all depends on who you are. If you are the type that requires large sums of money, then I think the complaint will be valid. However, the truth of the matter is that small denominations are also desperately needed in the rural areas.

Madam Speaker, having said that, I may also add that it is interesting to hear what the hon. Member is saying because for most of us, at least for me, each time I go to the Automated Teller Machine (ATM), it is the small denominations that are hard to find. If you are looking for a K100, you will find it. If you are looking for a K50, you will find it. If you are looking for a K2 or K5 from an ATM, it is very hard to find them. So, given my experience and that of many other people, I would say that actually, the problem is the very opposite. It is the absence of the small denominations and for that, we are talking to BoZ to make sure that the K1s, K2s and K5s are also readily available.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Madam Speaker, I will avoid mentioning some of the banks that load their Automated Teller Machines (ATMs) with K20 notes only when it is month end. The hon. Minister should know that this is the concern of the hon. Member for Chitambo. Is there a way of addressing this?

Madam Speaker, we know why they are doing that. If you want to withdraw K2,000, you can imagine how many times you have to insert the ATM card. Each transaction attracts a charge to our citizens. The question is: Is the central bank or ministry considering measures to monitor these commercial banks so that at each point, they should be able to load a combination of notes, so that members of the public are not exploited and disadvantaged?

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, yes, the banks will be spoken to and they will also be monitored. Although, I would suspect that when you go to the bank and only the small denominations are coming out, in all probability, it means that the high denomination notes, being the month end, have already been exhausted. So, what remains are the small denominations, which if you are looking for big denominations, cause the kind of inconvenience that the hon. Member is talking about. Nonetheless, we shall speak to the banks and monitor them.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Mung’andu: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: The hon. Member for Bangweulu is joining us via Zoom.

Mr Kasandwe: Madam Speaker, the spirit of the question is in the manner Hon. Mung’andu has put it. The complaint is about the banks exploiting members of the public during the month end. I will give you an example. The maximum you can withdraw at the Automated Teller Machines (ATMs) for the Amalgamated Bank of South Africa (ABSA) when they are loaded with K100 notes is K6,000, as a one-off transaction. However, during the month end, when these machines are loaded with K20s, you withdraw more than ten times for the same amount. It becomes tedious and costly on the part of the person withdrawing. In this regard, is the hon. Minister able to give direction to the banks, so that this trend is avoided during month ends?

Madam Speaker, that was the spirit of the question.

Madam Speaker: That question was duly answered by the hon. Minister. We need to make progress and the last question will be from the hon. Member for Luena.

Mr Anakoka (Luena): Madam Speaker, linked to the issue of access via Automated Teller Machines (ATMs), which is access to cash, is access to banking services in general. Our banks have stuck to the old arrangement of closing their doors at 1430 hours and –

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Luena, you are now expanding the question. The substantive question relates to bank notes. Therefore, you are out of order, hon. Member.

Mr Mutale: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mutale: Madam Speaker, I am sorry for disturbing the House. My point of order is on the House itself and the Chief Whip.

Madam Speaker, in this House, there are so many mosquitoes, which are disturbing us. They are biting us on our legs and so on and so forth. I must also extend this to the Members Motel. Is the Chief Whip in order to sit there without bringing this matter to your attention, so that appropriate measures could be taken?

I need your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: The matter is important. However, in accordance with our Standing Orders, an hon. Member cannot rise on a point of order on a matter relating to administrative action or an administrative issue. Even in my office, we have a lot of mosquitoes. I was complaining about that today.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: So, please, hon. Members, rest assured, it will be attended to, both at Parliament Buildings and the Members Motel. However, the issue that was raised about phones is a matter of serious concern to us as presiding officers. While the session is proceeding, hon. Members are busy on their phones. I know that previously, hon. Members were not allowed to have phones in the Chamber. At times, hon. Members have even proceeded to answer calls while we are sitting and some phones have even rung.

I know that in the Judiciary, when a phone rings, it is always confiscated. So, if we continue with that practice of bringing phones and reading WhatsApp messages and doing all sorts of things on phones, we will be compelled to make an order that as hon. Members come into the Chamber, they should leave their phones outside. So, maybe, that should be the practice. We will discuss it in the Standing Orders Committee.

UPGRADING OF THE CHIUNDAPOLE ROAD IN MFUWE

32. Ms Mabonga (Mfuwe) asked the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development:

whether the Government has any plans to upgrade the Chiundaponde Road in Mfuwe Parliamentary Constituency, to bituminous standard;
if so, when the plans will be implemented; and
what the estimated cost of the project is.

The Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi): Madam Speaker, before I deal with the question, maybe, just to say that the Patriotic Front (PF) as a party is beginning to worry me. Yesterday, according to the hon. Member for Matero, I was supposed to be the richest man in Zambia. Today, from another PF Member from Malole, I am supposed to be the oldest man at 75 years.

Laughter

Eng. Milupi: I am sure tomorrow, from the hon. Member for Chitambo, I will be the strongest man.

Laughter

Eng. Milupi: The other day, maybe from the hon. Member for Kasama Central, I will be the most handsome.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, the Government has no immediate plans to upgrade to bituminous standard the Chiundaponde Road in Mfuwe Parliamentary Constituency. However, the Government through the Road Development Agency (RDA) has been undertaking emergency drainage works on worst sections of the road to prevent the people of Chiundaponde from being cut off.

Madam Speaker, there are no immediate plans to upgrade the road to bituminous standard, but such plans maybe consider in future road sector work plans, subject to availability of funds.

Madam Speaker the estimated cost of upgrading the road to bituminous standard will only be determined after the design of the road has been completed.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Ms Mabonga: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the response. The good people of Mfuwe are disappointed that the Government has no immediate plans to upgrade the road. The road in question is an economic road. It leads to the Bangweulu Wetlands, which is a tourist attraction which can even bring in the muc needed revenue to the Government. Is the hon. Minister aware that that road is an economic road?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Mfuwe for the follow up question. She is asking whether I am aware that this road has potential to increase economic activities in the country. I am fully aware of, first of all, the state of the road, and where it is coming from and where it leads to. I think it terminates at a point near the Tuta Bridge, and the road leads to places of potential tourism sites. So, yes, we are aware, and I have been speaking to a representative to the chief in that area on the same road. So, the answers I have given do not subtract from the fact that they were no such plans, but going forward, these plans maybe be put in place.

Madam Speaker, just to indicate how much we know of this road, Chiundaponde Road which is RD 733 starts from the Great North Road at a place called Makantaulo, approximately 60 km south of Mpika. It is 70 km long from the junction to Chiundaponde and the road at the moment is gravel surfaced.

Madam, the second point is that RDA has been working at location 26 km at the starting point using the K555,000 which was provided by the Government. This money was for 4X 900mm diameter size culverts which have already been installed and 2X 900mm diameter size culverts which will be installed once funds are secured. Short sections of the road close to chainage 26 have also been worked on to improve their condition. Ultimately, hon. Member for Mfuwe, it would save us and the country, funds being available, if this road was upgraded to bituminous standard.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I appreciate the response from the hon. Minster. I do not know how to describe him. Of course, I know one thing for sure that he is one of the longest serving hon. Members of this side of your House…

Laughter

Mr Sing’ombe: Question!

Mr Kampyongo: … and a President of a political party, into which he has been trying to recruit me.

Laughter

Mr Mung’andu: As SG!

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has confirmed the importance of this road and that maybe, the plans to upgrade it to bituminous standard not being available could be as a result of the cost. Would the hon. Minister then consider to upgrade this road to an all weather gravel road as he awaits significant funds to upgrade this road to bituminous standard, because our people have been crying for this road, which has potential to boost tourism, especially that the President stated here that he wants the Government to focus on the potential that lies in the tourism sector?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu for the follow up question. As to whether we want to recruit him or not, I think he passed his sell-by date, ...

Laughter

Eng. Milupi: …having lost by million, I think maybe, there is no value.

Laughter

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I stated in my answer that this road is a gravel road at the moment. There is work being done on it to ensure that the communities are not cut off. When the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu talks about turning the road into an all weather gravel road, I have a document here which speaks to improved rural connectivity road rehabilitation works which is funded by the World Bank. Out of the US$200 million that was provided, the six provinces that qualified included Muchinga Province. It is surprising that inspite of the free money coming from the World Bank to put up all weather first class gravel roads, this particular road was not put on the plans by our predecessors shows that priority setting was wrong. I do agree that it is an important road. Now that we have a Government that cares, …

Mr Kambita: Hear, hear!

Eng. Milupi: …this road will be considered going forward.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kang’ombe: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development has indicated that there are no immediate plans to upgrade to bituminous standard the Chiundaponde Road. I am sure the purpose for which this Motion was moved was for the hon. Member of Parliament to have feedback to the constituency. Is the hon. Minister able to indicate in which annual work plan this road will be included?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, in terms of indicating in which annual work plan this will be considered, all I can say is the need for these sort of roads to be considered across the country is, indeed, tremendous. For the programme that I talked about earlier on, for the World Bank rural improved connectivity, our predecessors just put two programmes for Muchinga, which is Aluni/Mulonga across Kanchibiya River and so on and so forth. As we go forward, if we implement this programme properly and we are able to apply for further funds, it is roads like these that will be considered. The limiting factor, as I keep saying, is the availability of resources. At the moment, your Government is dealing with the issue of putting back liquidity into the nation through day dealing with issues debt and so on and so forth. The hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning and his team are doing a fanatic job to actualise that. When that happens, and he allows us to borrow, have more resources from the Treasury, these are some of the roads that will be considered.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mutale: Madam Speaker, now that we know that the hon. Minister (Eng. Milupi) is the richest man in the House, –

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Chitambo, we have moved to the next question.

Mr Mutale: I know, Madam Speaker, but with your permission and since I was mentioned by bo Mulamu, I wanted to make it clear that since he is the richest man in the House now and we know, he is very much welcome to bring lobola for her (pointing at Hon. Melesiana Phiri)

Laughter

Mr Mutale: We will gladly accept. We need money.

Madam Speaker: Polygamy is not allowed in our culture.

Laughter

OPERATIONALISING COMMUNICATION TOWERS IN CHITAMBO CONSTITUENCY

33. Mr Mutale asked the Minister of Technology and Science:

when the communication towers which were constructed at the following locations in Chitambo Parliamentary Constituency will be operationalised:

Mwimbula;
Chitambo Mission Hospital;
Mulaushi Hills; and
Mukando Secondary School; and

what the cause of the delay in operationalising the towers is.

The Minister of Technology and Science (Mr Mutati): Madam Speaker, the House may wish to note that the construction of communication towers in Chitambo Parliamentary Constituency was part of Phase II of the Tower Project under the Government. The project scope did not include active equipment. However, the communication towers at Mwimbula Primary School, Chitambo Mission Hospital, Malaushi Hills and Mukando Secondary School in Chitambo Parliamentary Constituency will be made operational in the fourth quarter of 2022.

Madam, the delay in making the four sites operational was because the projects scope did not include active equipment for the communication towers in Chitambo Parliamentary Constituency.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mutale: Madam Speaker, my worry is on the vandalism which is causing these towers to become more like white elephants. What is your ministry doing to rectify the damage that has been caused? I am sure it did not provide guards to secure these towers.

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, we are going to go for a total solution, including the security of the tower and repair any vandalism that may have occurred before we place the active equipment.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mushanga: Madam Speaker, I am drawing my follow up question from the response the hon. Minister provided to part (a) of the question that the towers will be made operational in the fourth quarter of this year. I want the hon. Minister to assure the people of Chitambo, this House and the nation at large, I want him to be specific because fourth quarter is October, November and December and the year is almost ending. So, which month in the fourth quarter is this going to be done?

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, a quarter has got three months, and in that period, there are issues of procurement, placing active equipment on the tower and the issue of commissioning. So, that process, we anticipate, will take, maximum, three months.

Mr Mutale: Madam Speaker, I just want to know which network provider will be used to power these towers. I am aware that for now, we have got three providers.

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, it will be ZAMTEL funded by the Zambia Information and Communications Technology Authority (ZICTA).

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1640 hours until 1700 hours.

_______

[MR SECOND DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Emmanuel M. Musonda (Lupososhi): Mr Speaker, before business was suspended, I was about to ask a question, which has since been attended to. I wanted to ask if the four towers in Chitambo Constituency, which are not operational, would be co-shared. However, my question has since been attended to by the hon. Minister.

Mr Kamondo (Mufumbwe): Mr Speaker, I am sorry, I thought we were going into the debate.

_______

MOTION

MOTION OF THANKS

(Debate resumed)

Mr Kambita (Zambezi East): Mr Speaker, thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to continue with my debate.

Mr Speaker, at the time of adjournment yesterday, I was just winding up my debate. I mentioned that the key words in the speech which the President delivered on the Floor of the House were stabilising the economy, which was wrecked, of course, but now building on that economy. We have seen that in terms of the interventions that have been made in order for this economy to be on the mend. Now, the focus is on what we should do.

Mr Speaker, since the President envisages that citizens must participate, we expect everyone to be involved. Furthermore, in any situation where there is a challenge, there must be a cure. Cure, sometimes, is not luxury. You need to pass through tough times. Therefore, now that we have secured an International Monetary Fund (IMF) programme, which insulates us and gives us the confidence to grow the economy, we need to be ready to walk the talk. The key word here is fiscal discipline, which the President emphasised. Fiscal discipline begins with us. All of us must learn and admit the fact that the economy was in a bad state and it needs to be mended.

For it to be mended, it is a painful process, which we must pass through including the removal of some subsidies, which we enjoyed because we cannot afford to continue enjoying the luxury as if things are okay. Things are not okay. It was actually summed up in one sentence. The President mentioned in one sentence on page six that, we had failed to manage our economy.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member’s time expired.

Mr Kambita: Mr Speaker, there was one minute that was added to my debate. I seek your permission to conclude.

Interruptions

Mr Kambita: With your indulgence, let me just wind up. Thank you very much, Mr Speaker, for allowing me to conclude. I just want to expand the sentence on page six.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order! Hon. Member, your time is up.

Mr Kamondo (Mufumbwe): Mr Speaker, indeed, my brother wanted to continue. So, I will just continue from where he ended.

Mr Speaker, in one sentence, we had failed to manage our economy. I think I will start from there. Indeed, there were much turbulence and the people of Zambia felt that maybe the plane was going to crush. However, we want to thank God and the people of Zambia for having given us a chance to have a very good pilot and this is no other than President Hakainde Hichilema.

Indeed, the speech was so good and inspiring. However, there are certain things that I want to speak about, which will also trickle down to my constituency. When we come to Parliament, we come here to speak for our people. I am sure each hon. Member of Parliament consulted the constituents if they were able to listen to appreciate this speech. I took time to talk to my people and what I am going to say is what the people feel about the speech, which was given by the President.

Mr Speaker, when the United Party for National Development (UPND) took over, the economy was bad. We were told and we have read that the exchange rate went to almost K23 to 1US$. This time around, is it not correct to say the exchange rate is at K15 to 1US$?

Mr Speaker, those of us who were here have some institutional memory. The Constituency Development Fund (CDF) we used to get was K1.5 million, and at some point, we could not get it in full, we were given half. At the same time, if you were to equate that CDF to the United States Dollar, it was almost nothing because you were going to divide it by K22. When I was trying to work it out, it was onlyequivalent to the value of the motor vehicle that is going to be given to us to use when supervising projects. However, President Hakainde Hichilema and his New Dawn Government, for those who were not here, promised us, the United Party for National Development (UPND) that he was going to give us more money and that money has come. Now, I do not understand when I hear some hon. Members on your left say that there is little money.

Sir, even in terms of the exchange rate, what we need to do now is to make sure that even those who are importing – because we do not produce most of the things we use in this country. So, those who were using US$10,000 to import at that time were spending K22,000 but this time around, it is only around K16,000. Look at the difference. We would like to urge the players who are involved in importation to ensure the benefits they are getting also start trickling down so that the prices of goods and services can also go down. That is what we need to do.

Mr Speaker, hon. Members cannot trivialise this CDF. Someone was saying ushitasha mwana wandoshi and, indeed, it is true. We need to admit that this is a good thing because it is also helping us.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, what do those words you used mean?

Mr Kamondo: Those who do not appreciate are sons and daughters of a wizard.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kamondo: … but I do not see anyone who is son or daughter of a wizard. These are hon. Members.

Sir, for me in Mufumbwe, the construction of the only boarding secondary school in Mufumbwe that was started a long time ago has up to now not been completed. The President came to this House and talked about finishing those unfinished projects. What is that now? This President needs a pat on the back. We need to be talking about good things to encourage the man to do better than he has done. Yes, we can argue, but when it comes to issues to do with the economy, we have to appreciate what the New Dawn Government is doing.

Mr Speaker, the people of Mufumbwe and I are very happy. They are now saying that this is what they wanted because they know now that this time their boarding secondary school, the only boarding secondary school, will be completed according to what the President said here. Not only that, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning also came to this House and told us that 120 secondary schools are going to be constructed. What else do we expect?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kamondo: Sir, the other thing I am very happy to talk about, which I can even brag about, is the issue of the mines. Indeed, there is a need to bring sanity to small-scale mining. We need to encourage them. This is the right time to ask the Government to involve those cooperatives that we are forming, so that our people in our constituencies are able to also go into small-scale mining. That is what we need to do. We need to sit down and see what measures we should put in place so that even by using the CDF, we get our people all the necessary requirements, so that at the end of the day they are able to do the best they can do.

Mr Speaker, the people of the North-Western Province are also very happy that we have a nickel mine which has been opened in Kalumbila. We have a lot of cobalt and copper. The people of the North-Western Province are asking why the factory to manufacture batteries for electric cars should be situated on the Copperbelt and not the North-Western Province where we have all these raw materials and we are even closer to the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), which is also the biggest producer of cobalt?

Sir, in addition, even when we have the finished products, we will export them to Angola. Angola has got the money and it can buy everything. In fact, if it is brought to the Copperbelt we are going to lose out. We will also lose out on the corporate social responsibility in that manner. So, the people of the North-Western Province and Mufumbwe, in particular, are saying to this New Dawn Government that they are more than ready to have that factory based in the North-Western Province.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukosa: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mukosa: Mr Speaker, I rise on a point of order pursuant to Standing Order No. 65 which relates to the content of speech.

Sir, the hon. Member who was on the Floor, who is my big brother, in his debate used a Bemba proverb which says ushitasha mwana wandoshi meaning those who do not appreciate are children or witches or wizards.

Mr Speaker, we are all aware that the Patriotic Front (PF) did a lot of good things that many people appreciate. For example, the investment in energy, which has resulted in the reduction of –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order! Hon. Member –

Mr Mukosa:I want to create a basis for my point –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: No. Just cite the–

Mr Mukosa: I have said the content of speech. Do you want me to go specific to –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Be precise and say what you want to say as regards the breaching of the Standing Orders.

Mr Mukosa: In it is in relation to the relevance of what a person is talking about.

Mr Speaker, I was saying that the PF has done a lot of things that people are appreciating. I was citing the investment in –

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order hon. Member! You are off track.

Mr Mukosa: I want to substantiate my point of order.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: No!

Mr Mukosa: Okay, let me ask the question, Mr Speaker. Is the hon. Member who was debating on the Floor in order to accuse the United Party for National Development (UPND) Members of being children of wizards because they do not appreciate the good things that the PF did for the people of Zambia? Is this hon. Member in order?

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: I know that one should have been on a lighter note, just to bring a bit of life to the House However, let us proceed.

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo): Mr Speaker, thank you for allowing the people of Kalabo to add a comment on the Motion related to the speech which was rendered on 9^th September, 2022, by His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia and the Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Miyutu: Sir, this speech is like diamond. It carries great value because it reveals the truths about this country Zambia; its history, background and where we are. I will start with the nucleus which is on page 22.

Mr Speaker, on page 22, there is an indication of education. The people of Kalabo surely agree with this speech where it states that:

“As an administration, we are of the unwavering belief that education is the best possible platform of socio–economic progress any government can and should make available to its citizens”.

Mr Speaker, amongst the factors of development of mankind, number one is human resource. For any development to take place, human resource must be transformed. The New Dawn Government has demonstrated that truly, human resource is cardinal to the development of this country. Therefore, there is a need to improve the quality of this human resource as well as the quantity of the human resource. Promoting free education is the beginning of improving the quality and quantity of human resource, which is a major factor of economic development because most of our children are going to finish their education without any barriers. The people of Kalabo used to find it very difficult –

Chitotela: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, it is an established practice that when an hon. Member is speaking, no hon. Member shall obstruct between the presiding officers and the hon. Speaker. The hon. Member of Parliament for Lukulu East had obstructed the hon. Mr Speaker, twice. He came in and went out. Another hon. Member of Parliament sitting next to the hon. Member of Parliament for Kankoyo, when the hon. Member of Parliament for the good people of Kalabo Central who used to cry, but no longer does because he has food in his mouth, was speaking did the same. They were obstructing you, Mr Speaker. Are they in order to continue obstructing you when the hon. Member for Kalabo Central who no longer cries for the people of Kalabo was speaking? I seek your serious ruling.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: I think the hon. Member of Parliament for Kalabo is not crying because maybe, the food prices in the shops have gone down.

Laughter

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, the free education which people were crying for is really on the ground. Education is totally free. In the United National Independence Party (UNIP) era, those who were in school then used to pay k1 as school fund per year. However, in the New Dawn Administration, it is really free, not even a 50 ngwee is being paid. So, the children will complete their schooling. There is free education in boarding schools. The children in Kalabo are able to attend their secondary school education at a boarding school. They are able to write their exams. For the first time in 2022, all the candidates in Grade 7, Grade 9 and Grade 12 are going to write their exams cost free. That is through the vote which the people of Zambia gave to the United Party for National Development (UPND) which has formed the New Dawn Government and has implemented the free education system.

Mr Speaker, regarding the issue of labour, demonstration has been shown that labour can be sourced and the Government has employed teachers and health workers. For the first time again since 1964, there has never been a recruitment of that number of teachers and nurses being recruited.

Mr Speaker, regarding water provision, if you go to Kalabo, you will find that the number of boreholes were so limited because we were only depending on the Central Government through the Ministry of Water Development and Sanitation in conjunction with the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development.

Mr Speaker, when you go to Kalabo today, you will find boreholes being installed using the Constitutional Development Fund (CDF). So, this CDF of K25.7 million is going to create a positive impact on the lives of the people in Kalabo because water is going to be made available. The long distances which the women and children used to walk in search of water will no longer be covered because boreholes are going to be installed nearer to their doorsteps.

Mr Speaker, in Kalabo, the distances that people have to walk to health facilities are too long. People cover more than 10km to access health services. However, because of the New Dawn, we are going to use the CDF to construct clinics. For the first time, Kalabo is going to enjoy a share from the K25.7 million because we are going to put up health centres where there was nothing. In the previous years, we were just receiving these services by word of mouth, and nothing on the ground.

Mr Speaker, before I conclude, I would like to commend the words of the President which are contained in the speech that by the end of 2023, no child should sit on the floor. For sure, this is going to be done because we now have the means of providing the desks to the children so that they are able to learn while seated, which never used to happen.

Mr Speaker, with these few words, I thank you for having recognised the people of Kalabo.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mtolo: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mtolo: Mr Speaker, I am a very worried man. This bottle of water has been a big problem in Kalabo, for years. Is the hon. Member of Parliament for Kalabo in order not to talk about water that is going to be made available for the first time? For more than ten years in this House, he has been talking about lack of water in his constituency. Why then, is he not saying because of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), he is going to solve the problem of lack of water? Is this hon. Member in order, Sir?

Laughter

Mr Mtolo: Mr Speaker, should people start crying on his behalf? I seek your serious ruling.

Laughter

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I think let us avoid running comments and talk through the Speaker, so that we maintain order.

The hon. Minister of Agriculture is trying to play some jokes with the hon. Member. However, it is important not to forget that now, you have been availed with the Constitutional Development Fund (CDF) and if water is a challenge, you should get rid of that problem hon. Member.

Laughter

Mr Nyambose (Chasefu): Mr Speaker, thank you very much for according the good people of Chasefu an opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Motion of Thanks on the speech of the President which was delivered to this House on Friday, 9^th September, 2022.

Mr Speaker, I am standing in this House because the people of Chasefu were looking for a good leader. I am very sure that the leadership they were looking for is what they elected. In the same vein, the people of Zambia decided to look for a leader, and that leader whom they elected is President Hakainde Hichilema.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nyambose: Mr Speaker, today I decided to add my word or my words on behalf of the good people of Chasefu, and my speech will be focused on four issues. I have always indicated in this House that the people of Chasefu have been looking for services that they have been robbed of for so many years. Chasefu is underdeveloped because of poor leadership ...

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nyambose: ... that governed this country. I am very hopeful because of the speech of the President. I was not just listening, but also checking the passion with which he was delivering his speech.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nyambose: Actually, he was talking to the speech. Many people lost it; they were looking at which paragraph he was on because he delivers his speeches with passion, and that is what a good leader demonstrates. He applied himself to the speech, and I want to demonstrate that. The President himself –

Mr Kampyongo: One take!

Mr Nyambose: Mr Speaker, I “wired” these people hands down.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Chasefu, ...

Mr Nyambose: Mr Speaker, what I meant by “wiring” them, ...

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: ... when you said “wired”’ what did you mean?

Mr Nyambose: ... is that I am an Independent Member of Parliament who was fought by State machinery led by the Patriotic Front (PF) and I beat them hands down.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kampyongo: Thank you so much, Mr Speaker. I am trying to make head and tail to what sounds like a chilingalinga debate.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Kampyongo: Sir, the Standing Orders – there are so many debaters in the seats. I thought you were no longer greenhorns, we are all now mature.

Mr Speaker, Standing Order No. 65 is very clear that when we debate here, we must not be carried away and we must not be excited and veer from facts. The hon. Member has made very serious allegations here.

Hon. Government Members: He “wired” you!

Mr Kampyongo: Listen to the armchair critics.

Mr Speaker, I need your protection.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order Hon. Members! Let us observe silence.

Mr Kampyongo: Is the hon. Member in order to ...

Hon. Government Members: To “wire” you!

Mr Kampyongo: ... make unfounded – he “wired” you.

Interjections

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, we need to have order so that we can transact properly.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: No, no. I think if there is a breach, cite a Standing Order.

Mr Kampyongo: I have cited Standing Order No. 65. The hon. Member on the Floor has made serious allegations that there was Government machinery fighting him ...

Hon. Government Members: Yes!

Mr Kampyongo: ... without demonstrating how.

Hon. Government Members: Ah!

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, you see what I am saying?

Laughter

Mr Kampyongo: We are now behaving like we are at a market. Seriously, we need decorum in this House.

Interjections

Mr Nkandu: Respect marketeers.

Mr Kampyongo: I know my elder brother here was in charge of marketeers through the Zambia National Marketers Association (ZANAMA). I am not being disrespectful, I am just saying that at the markets, you hear different noises as people are trading. So, here, we have to conduct ourselves as hon. Members with the decorum that is required. When I am on the Floor, I need space.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Let us observe order.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member in order to veer from the speech and start making unsubstantiated allegations? He has been part of Government. He was a commissioner of the Government. Is he in order to make such allegations?

I seek your serious guidance, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Thank you, hon. Member. I think the hon. Member for Chasefu was just trying to illustrate how he came into office. Maybe, there were obstacles that he managed to overcome and it is only him who knows how he went through those obstacles.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: May the hon. Member for Chasefu continue.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nyambose: Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. I have always been guided that when you are impervious to advice, you are likely to fall in life.

Mr Mung’andu rose.

Interjections

Mr Nyambose: Mr Speaker, I hope I will not be distracted anymore. I want to demonstrate what I have been emphasising about the new leadership, the New Dawn, and President Hakainde Hichilema. Chasefu constituency has benefited for the first time; one lot of 473 teachers. Has it ever happened in life before?

Hon. Government Members: No!

Mr Nyambose: Is it not a good idea?

Mr Nyambose: The issue of the teacher-pupil ratio that this country has been talking about has been addressed in one year. Is it not a good thing? Can I come and say here that this is a bad idea? Leadership demands that we appreciate what it is good, ...

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!!

Mr Nyambose: ... and that is what I am demonstrating. I keep quiet and I learn and watch. I should appreciate that this country is blessed to have a new Government ...

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nyambose: ... that will bring change.

Mr Chairman, it is not perfect, and I will demonstrate some of the weaknesses. However, that is normal. I will always state the fact.

Mr Chairperson, on the additional ...

Hon. Members: Mr Speaker!

Mr Nyambose: ... space that we need under the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), Chair – my apologies, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mung’andu: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mung’andu: Mr Speaker, I have been a keen follower of Zambian politics. I am standing on this point of order pursuant to our Standing Order No. 65, which talks about the relevance of speech. I have been a keen follower of Zambian politics and I have seen people coming from the United National Independence Party (UNIP) going to the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD). They destroyed the MMD and then the same people came to the Patriotic Front (PF) and destroyed the PF. Now they are going to the United Party for National Development (UPND).

Interruptions

Mr Mung’andu: This is my advice, hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security. Soon, you will cry because of these praise singers, unless you dump them.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member!

Interruptions

Mr Mung’andu: My point of order is: Is my very good brother, the hon. Member for Chasefu –

Hon. Government Members: Who is debating so well!

Mr Mung’andu: Can I be protected, Hon. Speaker?

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: You may continue.

Mr Mung’andu: I know he tried to stand on the PF several times and he was even appointed commissioner by President Edgar Lungu. Is he in order to veer off the President’s Speech and start attacking the former leadership which was not part of the President’s Speech? He is a man who enjoyed in the PF. Is he in order? In case you do not know, he was a commissioner appointed by President Lungu. Is he in order, Hon. Speaker? I seek your serious ruling.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Chasefu, I think you should try to stick to the President’s Speech. I know, just like many other Zambians, you should be overwhelmed with what has transpired in your constituency, but let us just stick to the President’s Speech.

Mr Nyambose: Mr Speaker, I have spent my life as a trade unionist. I have never been what they are purporting. I will not be distracted because I have come to add value to this House. We speak about reality. Is free education not a good idea? This is what the Zambians and the people of Chasefu want. I have always called it a signature project for President Hakainde Hichilema. The other signature project is the CDF. There has been a huge increment from K1.6 million to K25.7 million. Has it ever happened before?

Hon. Government Members: No.

Mr Nyambose: It is happening for the first time. Are the people of Chasefu not happy? The people of Chasefu and Zambia are happy with these policies. So, when I speak to the issues and say that this country is blessed, all of us, even those who are trying to distract me, should support me.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nyambose: Mr Speaker, if we call ourselves Zambians and we have come to add value, then we should support and value good leadership. I have spoken about free education and CDF. My appeal to this House is that we must take interest in the CDF. What I am trying to put across is that the President has made a name by giving us K25.7 million in CDF. However, we are being fought by those who are proposing standard Bill of Quantities (BoQs) of a 1X3 classroom block at K1.2 million. How many milestones are we going to achieve? I have taken those to be distracting the President.

Mr Speaker, when the CDF was K1.6 million, we were able to build 1X3 classroom block at K400,000. Now, they want to put it at K1.2 million. How many milestones are we going to achieve? Hence my appeal to this leadership, so that at the end of the President’s term, he will say that he has achieved a lot for Chasefu and this country.

Mr Speaker, lastly, I would like to talk about the Farmer Input Support Program (FISP). The people of Chasefu are so many and they are into agriculture. How much are we going to put into this FISP vis-à-vis the Food Security Pack (FSP)? The people who are on FISP in Chasefu cannot receive FSP supplements. This is why I am calling upon the hon. Minister of Agriculture to streamline the would-be beneficiaries and widen the catchment area so that everyone benefits. We can use the councillors in the councils, which are decentralised. The councillors know each and every farmer under the FSP and FISP.

Mr Speaker, lastly on corruption, those who stole should be ashamed. They should be named and shamed so that this country can know. Anyone who stole in this country should be arrested. We should not fear nor waste time. This country needs decency, Mr President. We have not come here –

Hon. PF Members: Praise singer.

Mr Nyambose: You can call me praise singer. As long as the good is happening, I will praise. The bad, I will condemn. You may call yourselves professional politicians because you have been here for long. I am from the labour movement, and so, I will praise those who are doing fine.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Simumba (Nakonde): Mr Speaker, thank you very much for giving the good people of Nakonde this chance to debate the Motion.

Mr Speaker –

Mr Samakayi: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Samakayi: Mr Speaker, I apologise to my hon. Colleague for interrupting his thought process. I rarely rise on points of order. However, I am extremely compelled because of what I have observed from the time we opened Parliament. I have been observing and it looks like it is now mandatory for anybody who raises a point of order to be given chance even when some points of order are meant to disrupt serious business of the House.

Mr Speaker, this is my second term here in Parliament. There are times when you go to a certain segment and the presiding officer says: “in this segment, I do not want any disruptions and there shall be no points of order.” However, I have observed that people are now standing on points of order and disrupting business all the time. It is no longer interesting to be in this House, to say the least.

Mr Speaker, I think this issue of points of order must be managed. Is this House in order to be allowing points of order at every turn and disrupting the business of the House? I need your guidance, Sir.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: I think your concerns have been heard. I was very observant and indeed, some points of order were just meant to distract those who were on the Floor. However, in the same vein, when I am presiding over business in the House, some of you have got a tendency of rising on points of order unnecessarily. So, a word of caution going forward is that let us observe order at all times. This is quite an honourable House and whoever is here is an honourable Member. So, if someone is debating and his/her debate is not to your taste, I think the best we can do is to let him/her finish and at an appropriate time, you too, will be given an equal opportunity to debate. The hon. Member for Nakonde may continue.

Mr Simumba: Mr Speaker, thank you very much for giving the good people of Nakonde a chance to debate this very important Motion.

Mr Speaker, a President’s Speech is the hope of the nation. It is that which clears the minds of the people. The President’s Speech is also the hope of the hopeless. Now, when you look into this Speech, you will see that it did not give direction on retirees.

If the President had addressed the retirees, they would have not asked to be addressed. That is one point which I would want to put across.

Mr Speaker, the other point that I want to put across is that the speech did not address those people were not recruited as teachers. What message is the President giving to those teachers who were not recruited? Are they going to be recruited this year or next year? The message was not there.

Mr Speaker, the speech did not talk about the Lusaka July function. There is sodomy in this country and our people are being sodomised. One day, you will find that even one of your hon. Members here is going to be molested ...

Interruptions

Mr Simumba: ... because there is nothing that we are hearing from the Government on this matter. What is the position of the Government on the people perpetuating this vice because we cannot have a situation in which each and every time we are receiving such news?

Mr Speaker, one of the challenges that we have in this country is that of youth unemployment. Zambia is a youthful population with approximately 74 per cent being youths. These are the people who turned out in numbers to go and vote for the United Party for National Development (UPND) because they were promised jobs. They were promised youth empowerment.

Mr Speaker, when we have a population of 74 per cent being youths, it means that if the population of Zambia is 19 million people, we are talking about 14,000 being youths.

Mr B. Mpundu: 14 million.

Mr Simumba: 14 million are youths.

Mr Speaker, I now want to take you to page 24 to hear what the Government is planning for those 14 million youths. On page 24, the President’s Speech says:

“To mitigate the challenge of high youth unemployment, the Government is implementing various youth skills development programmes, this year alone, over youths having been trained ...”

Mr Speaker, out of 14 million people, you train only 12,000 per year. How many are you going to train in the five years mandate? We are talking of 60,000 youths only. Is that enough?

Mr Kapyanga: No!

Mr Simumba: Mr Speaker, we have a very big challenge that we need to take care of because if we cannot look after the youths, then we are doomed.

Mr Speaker, the other aspect that I want to put across is that of youth empowerment. The people on your right are always talking about the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). It is always CDF this and CDF that. The New Dawn Administration increased the CDF allocationfrom K1.6 million to K25.7 million per constituency.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simumba: Mr Speaker, in the first quarter, we received about K6.4 million. We have been given guidance for this fund. I want these people across to understand that the amount that we have been given, especially for youths, is not enough. It is only K6.4 million in the first quarter. We have been given instructions that 60 per cent of that amount should go towards community projects. When you calculate that amount, 60 per cent is K3.84 million that is going to community projects.

Further, Mr Speaker, even as our hon. Colleagues are always praising themselves about CDF, it has been stated that 20 per cent should go towards youth and women empowerment. Now, what is 20 per cent of that amount? It is only K1,280,000. In Nakonde, for instance, we have got fifteen wards. If you divide that K1,280,000 by fifteen wards, how much is each ward going to receive?

Sir, we have further been guided that from the same K1,280,000, 60 per cent should go towards loans. Therefore, this is what I was expecting the President, in his speech, to give us a leeway on. Which bank are we going to use for the loans because the monies are there? Each and every hon. Members of Parliament here is aware that there is money, but we cannot use it.

Mr Speaker, if 60 per cent is for loans and 40 per cent is for grants, how much are we saying remains for the grants? It is only K512,000 per quarter. So, it is K512,000 that we have received as the people of Nakonde. Now, we have fifteen wards. If you divide that amount by fifteen wards, each ward will receive K34,133 for grants. What can you do with that money?

Mr Speaker, that is the money we have received in the first quarter, yet many people have applied for these grants. Some are even applying for K200,000 because the Government has already told them that the money is there under CDF, yet we have got only K34,133.

Sir, these are the things that I thought the President would come and make sure that he clears the air on. For each and everyone here, even the people on your right, our people know that there is money, yet it is only K34,000 that we have in the first quarter.

Mr Simumba: You should calculate. Numbers do not lie. I think you know that –

The hon. Member’s time expired.

Mr Munsanje: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

May the hon. Member take his seat. There is a point of order by the hon. Member of Parliament for Mbabala.

Mr Munsanje: Mr Speaker, I rise on a point of order based on Standing Order 65, which states that an hon. Member must speak with factual information. The hon. Member debating there said that he is not hearing any message on homosexuality. Just this morning, when I looked at the newspaper headlines, I saw that they were based on the message of the hon. Minister, who spoke yesterday. The hon. Minister issued a ministerial statement and spoke very clearly about the issue of homosexuality and our position as the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government, which is very clear. So, is the hon. Member in order to debate and insinuate that he is not hearing the correct message when this Government has been so elaborate and clear on where we stand on the issue of homosexuality?

I seek your serious ruling, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Nakonde, I think you have to ensure that at all times as an hon. Member of Parliament, you do not mislead the nation. I think the Government yesterday stated its position through a ministerial statement. The President is also on record condemning homosexuality. So, let us stick to what is right to avoid misleading the nation.

Mr Mutelo (Mitete): Mr Speaker, thank you for this opportunity to debate on behalf of the people of Mitete.

Mr Speaker, Mitete Constituency, just like Luangeni Constituency, is celebrating. Numbers do not lie. K1.6 million against K25.7 million is sixteen times more. If you received some money in the first and second quarter of the year, which is sitting in each constituency in Zambia currently, you are talking about eighteen times. This means we have beat the former regime by eight times as we stand. If you utilise the money, you will continue receiving more as it will not just be sitting idle in the account.

Mr Speaker, I have summarised the speech which was delivered by His Excellency the President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, as ‘HH’ speech. One H means hope and the other H, help.

Mr Speaker, help has already come. One, we have free education, Constituency Development Fund (CDF) has been increased, the economy has stabilised, retirees have been paid, etcetra etcetra.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutelo: That is the help that is already sitting in Zambia. There is global confidence about Zambia. The debt situation is already being managed.

Mr Mabeta: Correct!

Mr Mutelo: That is the help which the country is now enjoying. The employment of youths has already happened. In Mitete Constituency, Washishi, which only had two teachers, now has fourteen teachers. Mitete District which only had 183 teachers now has 412 additional teachers. That is the help that has already come. No wonder I have summarised the speech as ‘HH’ because help is already there and it is visible. That is walking the talk.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, if you were to go to Luangeni, you would find the things I have stated. If you were to go to Nakonde, you would find the same things that are happening in Mitete. It is not like in the past when CDF was at K1.6 million per constituency and some constituencies never used to receive CDF. It was K1.6 million per constituency, yet it could not carter for the whole country. Now, it is K25.7 million and each constituency is receiving CDF. Is that not help? Indeed, he is the Seventh President. When you talk of the seventh day, it is a day of rest. With the Seventh President of Zambia, rest has come to Zambia.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, there is proper rule of law is here.

Mr Nkandu: No gassing!

Mr Mutelo: People are able to move freely because there is no gassing. Mr Speaker, that is help.

On hope, Mr Speaker, the President said roads in Muchinga Province, the Southern Province, the North-Western Province and the Western Province would be worked on. I was here listening to the pronouncements. Now, I have hope for Katunda/Lukulu/Watopa/Mumbejhi Road.

That hope is there.

Mr Speaker, there is now hope when 115 secondary schools are abandoned and many other projects are yet to be finished plus 120 schools to be constructed.

Sir, when it comes to electricity, you inherit one generator, you build the second, third, fourth, and then you have hope for the fifth generator.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutelo: Hope is there. Are you not seeing the hope? Here we are abolishing the death penalty. We are now repealing the Public Order Act. Hope is there.

Mr Nkandu: You used to arrest us using the Public Order Act!

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, health posts were mentioned. Of the 650 health posts, eighty-six are yet to be completed. Three of those health posts are in Mitete. Hope is there for Washishi, Lupuyi and Chinonwe health posts. The medical staff is already employed. There is hope that gradually, every year, there shall be additional employment. So, what are you saying?

Mr Speaker, allow me to congratulate the Patriotic Front (PF) for winning the Luangwa Mayoral elections. The PF members are very happy. Do not forget that in Mkaika, in 2017, the PF was beaten by the United Party for National Development (UPND) which got 9,000 against 1,000 for the PF. In the Mitete by-election in 2017, when the PF was still fresh with winning elections, we beat it. The numbers in Luangwa were 6,000 to 1,000 last year, but now, it is 4,000 to 3,000. Numbers do not lie.

Laughter

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, hope and help is here.

Thank you so much, Mr Speaker.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapyanga (Mpika): Mr Speaker, thank you so much for allowing me to add my voice and that of the people of Mpika to debate on this very important Motion delivered by the President.

Mr Speaker, on page 27 of the President’s Speech, the President talks about agriculture. On this, the President missed an opportunity to direct the nation on a trajectory that will diversify our economy into the agriculture sector. He only talks about nutrition and food security of our nation.

Mr Speaker, the agriculture sector can be our economic mainstay if attention is given to it. We have land, fresh water and good rainfall every year. Right now, there is no single bag of fertiliser in Mpika, not even in Chipata where the hon. Minister of Agriculture comes from.

Mtolo: We have flagged off the distribution today, it will reach soon.

Mr Kapyanga: Mr Speaker, 80 per cent of our population’s livelihood is in agriculture.

The same sector employs about 70 per cent of the labour force.

Interruptions

Mr Kapyanga: I know you want to turn yourselves into tutors of English, but I do not care. I am here to talk and represent my people.

Hon. Member: Hammer!

Mr Kapyanga: Mr Speaker, as I talk on this Motion, I want to propose the following:

the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) is just a sheer waste of our resources which must be disbanded and the Government should come up with an Agriculture Development Corporation which should be in charge of developing agriculture.

Mr Sing’ombe: Question!

Mr Kapyanga: It will be in charge of investments in the agriculture sector. The Agriculture Development Corporation should also be in charge of marketing our crops. Not only that, but it should also be in charge of the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP).

Mr Speaker, under that Agriculture Development Corporation, the Government should at least have a target of small-scale farmers that should graduate into commercial farmers. In that speech by the President, we were not told how many small-scale farmers have graduated from being small-scale farmers to being commercial farmers. With the establishment of an Agriculture Development Corporation, we are assured of growing the agriculture sector and bring in export earnings. Right now, if the 1.2 million metric tonnes of maize that we have as a surplus was exported to Burundi or the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), our country would rake in about K45,600,000.

Mr Speaker, the same Agriculture Development Corporation can actually promote crop diversification, which was not mentioned in this speech. I thought those should be my suggestions under the agriculture sector.

Mr Speaker, I now move to page 29 of the speech, in particular on the issue of the Tanzania-Zambia Railway Authority (TAZARA). Firstly, I commend His Excellency the President for stating to this House and before the nation that the Government is in the process of improving the operations of TAZARA. I come from Mpika which houses the headquarters for TAZARA, yet behind it, are youths who are unemployed and women who do not benefit from its existence and the workshop. When you check the TAZARA infrastructure, you will see that it is in a dilapidated state. What I am saying here is simply that TAZARA is on the verge of collapse. With that assurance from the President, the people of Mpika are waiting for the Ministry of Transport and Logistics to implement, at the speed of light, what the President said in this speech.

Mr Speaker, TAZARA currently has about 679 retirees who have not been paid from 2005 to date. When hon. Members on your right are singing about retirees having been paid, I wonder which retirees those are because the TAZARA retirees in Mpika have not been paid. Right now, TAZARA has a workforce of about 1,200 employees, yet it can employ even more than 10,000 but it is not employing because it is on the verge of collapse. Those words in the speech by the President bring hope to us, the people of Mpika.

Mr Speaker, let the Ministry of Transport and Logistics also look into the state of the infrastructure in TAZARA. It is in a dilapidated state, and so, the ministry should pay attention to it.

Mr Speaker, furthermore, in his speech, the President also talked about national unity. Indeed, it is very important for this country to remain very united, more united than it was even when our forefathers left us. However, right now, even in this House, we have those who feel they are more superior to us. They call us thieves even when they have no evidence of us having stolen.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Oder!

Hon Member, in this House, there are rules. We are not allowed to debate ourselves. We are also not allowed to castigate ourselves in such a demeaning manner because we can send wrong signals to the public. I think stick to the President’s Speech. That should be your guide at all times. When you start talking about others, they are human beings, and so, they will be reactive. They will react towards you and you may not know to what level they may react. So, just stick to the President’s Speech. Further, avoid promoting hate speech because it has got its own repercussions. At all times, ensure that you do not propagate that path, especially you being a leader. You may continue.

Mr Kapyanga: Mr Speaker, thank you for that wise counsel. I know even those who propagate hate speech on the Floor of the House have heard and they have learnt.

Mr Speaker, we have been told that in the past, three regions were discriminated against and that they did not receive an equal share of development. Some people actually say provinces like Muchinga, where I come from, are the provinces that received unprecedented development in the past, when from Mpika to Nabwalya, there has been no road since independence. Meanwhile, there is an all weather road in Dundumwezi. They say provinces like mine received development when the road from Serenje to Chinsali is in dilapidated state. They say our province received unprecedented development when we do not have a secondary school in Kachibunga.

Mr Speaker, these are the ways that actually are not in tandem with the President’s Speech when it comes to uniting this nation. Those words make those who are hearing that they were discriminated against to hate those who are alleged to have received unprecedented development.

Mr Speaker, on the issue of–

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member’s time expired.

Mr Chaatila (Moomba): Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity to also add my voice to the debate on the President’s Speech.

Mr Speaker, I want to restrict myself to just one item. On page 3 of his speech, the President indicated that in the past one year, the New Dawn Administration prioritised the implementation of socio-economic interventions aimed at stabilising, repairing and reviving our economy. The key word I want to look at is “repairing”. When you are repairing something, it means that thing was damaged. So, I want to look at what was damaged. It is very obvious that our hon. Colleagues on your left have forgotten where they have taken us from.

Mr Speaker, when we talk about repairing, we will not forget that under the Patriotic Front (PF) Government there was too much corruption. From time immemorial; from the time of the United National Independence Party (UNIP) to date, the PF Government will go down in history as the most corrupt Government. That is what we are trying to repair.

Mr Kapyanga: Question!

Mr Chaatila: Mr Speaker, I will give you examples, if they want to question. We have not forgotten where you bought the fire engines at US$42 million. US$1 million one fire engine which was about K250,0000. We will not forget about that. We will also not forget about situations where now, some of the contractors have been paid for providing nothing. That is total corruption.

Mr Speaker, one of the previous debaters from the PF indicated that they had hoped to see how the President would have addressed issues of how the mobile money operators booths were removed. They expected to see how, for example, in Chingola – and I sympathise with our people in Chingola whose houses were demolished not too long ago. However, there is one question, which is the legalities under the PF, where to it, everything was normal. In fact, we need to do an inquiry on the PF Government as to who authorised people to build houses in a land that which was reserved for an airstrip. We need to know who was authorising many mobile operators in town–

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon Member let us stick to the President’s Speech.

Mr Chaatila: Mr Speaker, I am well guided.

Mr Speaker, we need to know who authorised mobile money service operators to put booths in town to an extent that our town looked very dirty. Such are the issues we need to look at.

Mr Speaker, the President, in his speech, also indicated that the PF borrowed carelessly. However, we saw someone stand and say the President should not have done that because the borrowed funds were meant for the construction of roads, clinics and secondary schools. How do you borrow to an extent where you fail to pay back? Is that not being careless? That is total carelessness. These are the things that we need to look at, but someone said the President should not have used that word. Why not?

Mr Speaker, the country is now labouring. For the first time, one of the payments was omitted under the PF Government. Why? It is because the Government did not have money to pay back the loan. It had borrowed too much than it could afford to pay back.

Mr Speaker, how else are we going to talk about repairing the nation? This time around, we can walk with our heads high, whether I am dressed in a PF outfit or a United Party for National Development (UPND) outfit, no one is going to attack me. This is what the President meant when he talked about repairing this nation. Today, we are all enjoying the peace, which was not there. This is why I just want to restrict myself to the issue or repairing the nation, so that our hon. Colleagues on your left do not forget where we are coming from.

Mr Speaker, there was too much illegality. If you went round the country, you would have noticed that PF cadres were the ones who were managing it. At police stations or roadblocks, a PF cadre was more respected than even hon. Members of Parliament because of what the PF was doing. So, my call to my hon. Colleagues on the left is that, as they debate and argue the points, let them not forget where they brought us from.

Mr Speaker, lastly, let me thank the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning. For the first time, in Moomba Constituency, I am sitting with about K18.5 million of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). This is my second term of being a Member of Parliament. From 2016 to 2021, I never received any support from the Government. The CDF was only K3.9 million, yet someone is trivialising the current CDF allocation by saying it is only 4 per cent of the total Budget.

Sir, you must acknowledge good works. This time around, as Hon. Miyutu said, at the rate we are going, the people of Moomba Constituency in Kayola, Nadongo and Moomba are going to have many boreholes because this is the money they will plan for and not the way it was done in the past. In 2018, under the PF Government, my constituency was allocated a dam which was earmarked for construction, but up to now, nothing has happened. I will continue talking about this because it was painful. When I tried to follow up on that project, one hon. Minister told me that: “go to HH he gives you a dam”. That is why I am saying we should not forget where we are coming from. It is good for me to have K13.5 million just for the first and second quarter. In fact, I can even stand proudly and say, if I can get another K13 million in the next five years, I would have a lot done than what I could have done in five years under the PF.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chaatila: Mr Speaker, as our hon. Colleagues debate, they should not forget where they brought us from. Going forward, we need to support these ideas.

Sir, I heard another former hon. Minister saying free education means nothing. Surely, can someone say that when they failed to do the same? We have free education now rolling everywhere. As hon. Members of Parliament, we have stopped paying school fees on behalf of some parents who were not able to pay for their children

Mr Speaker, with these few words, I thank you for giving me an opportunity to debate.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Munsanje (Mbabala) Mr Speaker, greetings from the good people of Mbabala to your good office. I stand to give words of support from the good people of Mbabala to the President’s excellent speech delivered during the official opening of the Second Session of the Thirteenth National Assembly.

Mr Speaker, the President did an excellent job when he came here by laying the foundation on which the United Party for National Development (UPND) was elected. The UPND Government was elected to fix a broken economy, an economy that was struggling. We do not know what would have happened if at all the good people of Zambia had not made that very correct choice of voting for the UPND. We saw the stabilisation of key indicators in the last one year of the UPND being in power. As quoted in the President’s Speech, we have seen economic growth being projected at 4 per cent from negative 2.8 per cent. Inflation has dropped from 35.6 per cent to 9.8 per cent in 2022 and the exchange rate from K22 to US$1 to K15 to US$1 making imports cheaper. Families can now buy more and import things.

Sir, national reserves, which had been decimated to 1.9 months, are back to more than 3.7 months of import cover for the country. So, the country is safe. The debt default, which was also a first for Zambia is now back on track. Even the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) vaccination coverage, which was poorly performing at 10 per cent, is now at 46 per cent plus and at 70 per cent in some districts.

Mr Speaker, the much talked about Constituency Development Fund (CDF), which was at K1.6 million, was raised to K25.7 million. So, we have seen a change in all areas of social and economic development under the UPND Government within one year of being in office.

The President’s Speech was spot on. He talked about debt management, which is the debt we were left with. Indeed, this has been managed by the best hands in Government.

Mr Speaker, the President has proposed policy measures and these were very clear. Unless somebody was not paying attention or has not read the speech, the policy measures are very clear, and they are in simple English. You do not need a tutor in English for you to understand or read the speech or hear the President.

Mr Speaker, the President talked about promoting agriculture. For example, Mbabala is an agricultural place, and would like to benefit from the various agriculture policies that were propagated by the President. We would like to be part of the exporters for various products that were talked about such as blueberries, mushrooms, flowers, macadamia and other fruits. We would like our farmers to diversify and go into those things, so that they can earn more. Then we can create value and create an economy in Mbabala that is going to support this country and improve livelihoods. We want to create jobs from activities that are agrarian in nature.

Mr Speaker, we want to talk about things like the agribusiness. We want to add value to various services that are produced under agribusiness like adding value to the farming products that we produce.

Mr Speaker, the President talked about the road network and increasing it by more than 4,000 km. We would like the roads in Mbabala that were left in such bad shape to be done. For ten years, the roads in Mbabala never saw a grader. For the first time, a grader has been seen in Mbabala Constituency and we have started working on these roads.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munsanje: We still have many other roads in Kabimba, Hakaloba, Mutanga, Kachenge and many other areas of Mbabala in Mapanza where we want to ensure that the roads get the best as propagated by the President.

Mr Speaker, we also want to talk about the excellent news regarding human and social development. The investment in the free education policy that has been talked about is exciting. I have received a lot of words of thanks from the people of Mbabala to the President and the hon. Minister of Education, who I have spoken to.

This Friday, you are all invited to Bolebo School for a celebration for the teachers who have been received in Mbabala Constituency. This is a school that never received teachers in the last ten years of the previous regime, but it has now received five teachers and they are inviting us to celebrate. This is the kind of development we are talking about, the kind which the President is talking about.

Sir, we are also talking about issues of human rights. Our new Government of the UPND, as propagated by the President, is talking about the rule of law. Under the rule of law, we are talking about human rights. Never should we have citizens being called cockroaches by a fellow citizen of this country. This county is for all of us and all of us must get the best out of it.

Mr Speaker, I want to emphasise the importance of a Government that respects people, a Government that supports its citizens and a Government that is there for its people. The words of the President have emphasised that this Government is going to stand for the people of Zambia. It is going to do the best for the people of Zambia and we have seen the President walk the talk. He does not only talk, he is doing what he is talking about. He is mobilising investment for this country. We have seen, for example, his trip to New York is not a trip for dancing parties like it used to be, it is a trip to bring about investments like high-quality internet and other investments to this country.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munsanje: These are things that are going to create the jobs that the Zambian children of Mbabala and many other areas deserve. That is what we want to see from the President.

Mr Speaker, on the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) allocation, which others say is not so good for them, we saw how they failed to deliver it. Even for 2021, it was only after your new Government of the UPND came into office that it was shared with Mbabala. We received the K1.6 million in October, which they failed to give us. That demonstrates how CDF is very important and is a game changer for our local people in line with nguzu ku bantu.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member’s time expired.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: The next one is the hon. Member for Mufulira to be followed by the hon. Member for Sinazongwe. I did not see properly and skipped the hon. Member for Sinazongwe. We will also try to look at the Bosch system because there are some hon. Members who indicated on the Bosch as they do not have iPads.

Mr Mwila (Mufulira): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving us, the people of Mufulira Central Constituency, this opportunity to contribute to debate on the Motion.

Sir, having listened to the speech and having read the document that was circulated, we find it very difficult to believe what the President was saying in his speech. We find it extremely difficult.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Mwila: I will outline some of the things we have picked from the speech, which are making it very difficult.

Sir, they say actions speak louder than words and when the words and actions are not matching, it is very difficult to believe. Let me start, first of all, with the theme of the speech which was talking about working together. It is welcome because we all have to work together. We only have this one country and we must embrace everyone in fostering development. However, I will just give an example, we have elections that are failing to take place in Kabushi and Kwacha. Immediately after the President finished presenting his speech, he took a five-day working trip to the Copperbelt to campaign in an election that was promoting exclusivity.

Hon. Government Member: Question!

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, people who wanted to take part in an election are being fought left, right and centre. That is exclusivity –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order! Hon. Member for Mufulira, is that part of the President’s Speech?

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, I am trying to emphasise something and relate it to the theme of the speech. How can we work together –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, let us be more precise and focus on what we are supposed to. We are trying to dissect the President’s Speech here. So, let us stick to that to avoid pandemonium because other people may react. In order to maintain order, let us stick to the President’s Speech.

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, the theme is on page 4 of the President’s Speech and it is talking about working together. Working together means anyone who wants to take part in any sector in terms of development must be allowed to freely exercise their rights.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwila: How can we work together when people are being fought and prevented from appearing on the ballot paper? We find it difficult to believe what the President was saying because the words and actions are not matching.

Sir, let me move on. On page 6 of the speech, the President mentioned that the Government has managed to subdue inflation from 25.6 per cent in August, 2021. Indeed, numbers do not lie. I did a research because I was bothered by this figure that the President mentioned in his speech.

Mr Speaker, even when you go to the Zambia Statistics Agency (ZamStats) to check the history of the inflation rate, it will tell you that never at any time did our inflation reach 25.6 per cent, as stated by the President in his speech. If you check at ZamStats, you will find that the highest the inflation rate went was 24.4 per cent. I wonder where the 25 per cent came from.

Hon. Government Members: Ah!

Mr Mwila: We find it difficult to believe and trust what the President was saying.

Let me move on, Mr Speaker. On page 6 of his speech, the President mentioned that the Government has managed to build back the forex reserves to 3.7 months of import cover. I have with me here a document which is the Monetary Policy Statement, which was issued on 1^stSeptember, 2021 by the Central Bank; the Bank of Zambia. It says at at August, 2021, the reserves were standing at 5.4 months of import cover.

Hon. Government Members: Ah!

Mr Mwila: It is here. When the President says it has built back the reserves to 3.7 months of import cover, we should, in fact, be questioning because in August, the import cover was 5.4 months. In fact, it has decimated in the last years.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Mwila: We should be asking the Government what has happened to the reserves. From 5.4 in august, now we are talking about 3.7. So, it is not correct for the President to say they have built back the reserves because we should actually be asking what has happened to the 5.4 months of import cover which was there in August when there was change of Government.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, let me move on to the mining sector. The President said, on page 14 of his speech, that they are addressing the challenges that Mopani Copper Mines (MCM) and Konkola Copper Mines (KCM) are facing in order to preserve jobs.

Mr Speaker, I will speaker about MCM, especially. The reality is that contrary to what the President is talking about preserving jobs, they are actually being lost at MCM because the company is near insolvency. The company has no liquidity. The contractors that have provided services to MCM have not received their payments from the company. As we are speaking, over 400 employees, employed under the contractors have had their employment contracts terminated and then the President is saying we are preserving jobs, yet what is happening is to the contrary.

The indecision on MCM to fund it or capitalise it is affecting the productivity. Copper production at MCM has reduced and we want the Government to make a decision in order to preserve the jobs. It is difficult to believe the President when he says the Government is preserving people’s jobs when almost 500 households have been left without employment and with no income. Very soon, between Mufulira and Kitwe, many will become destitute because of the indecision on the way forward for MCM.

Sir, contractors are lacking funding. Even the mine itself, when you look at cooper mining development, you will see that it has stalled because the mine needs capitalisation and all we hear are assurances about the decisions that are going to be made. This is very difficult. The sooner a decision is made, the better.

Mr Speaker, on page 26 of his speech, the President said the Government has secured one year of essential medicines and medical supplies. The reality is that people are going to hospitals and coming back with prescriptions. There are no drugs in the hospitals. So, where are the drugs that the President talked about in his speech when he said that he has secured one year of drugs and medical supplies? In Mufulira, we have made a request for an X-ray machine to be put at the district hospital. It is now more than a year, and that is not forth coming.

Mr Speaker, people walk into hospital with different ailments and they come out with prescriptions. The drugs are not there. So, with all this, how can we trust what the President said in his speech? Actions speak louder than words.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Sialubalo (Sinazongwe): Mr Speaker, thank you very much for the opportunity given to me to contribute to the debate on the President’s Speech which was ably presented by the President and it is self explanatory. It takes a very decent person to have a sense of shame, like the President indicated.

Mr Speaker, as Zambians, we agree that the economy of the country is in intensive care. The situation was created by the previous Government. So, we need to accept that for us to move forward and resolve the situation. It is not a political matter. It is a matter of reality to say the economy is terrible.

Mr Speaker, the previous debater indicated that the Government was at 5.4 months of import cover, but the truth is, that was fictitious in a sense that it had over borrowed. So, it was purely because of borrowing. That was fictitious, it was not real. The real situation as what the President indicated.

Firstly, what is required is a sense of shame from us who were being addressed by the President. The President was not only talking to Cabinet Minister, but also to us as hon. Members of Parliament, so that we can convey the message to the masses; the people who voted for us, to say that something, indeed, needs to be corrected.

Mr Speaker, as I move on, allow me to register my happiness over the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) and how the people of Sinazongwe are using it. So far, we have over 150 youths who are being trained in various skills for their survival. We have sent some here in Lusaka at some schools and others are at St. Mawaggali Trades Training Institute - Brothers of Charity in Choma. So, we really appreciative to the New Dawn Government and the Ministry of Finance and National Planning for releasing the money. We promise, as people of Sinazongwe, to keep using the money as and when it is released because the people of Zambia are going to judge us as hon. Members of Parliament based on how we utilise these resources that are given to us.

Mr Speaker, K25.7 million is not a joke. It is a lot of money that can make a lot of strides in people’s livelihood. So, this is not a period of politicking. It is the period of being realistic regarding where we are as a nation.

Mr Speaker, let me come to the issue of mining. The President indicated his wiliness to resolve the issues surrounding Konkola Copper Mines plc (KCM) and Mopani Copper Mines (MCM). The New Dawn Government found KCM and MCM in an intensive care kind of situation. What will not be good for the New Dawn Administration is to keep on massaging someone who is already in the intensive care because once that particular individual or these companies collapse, we shall be blamed for mistakes that we never made.

Mr Speaker, we know how KCM was handled, how a lot of money was misappropriated. Individuals got a lot of money from KCM. However, the current state needs the Government to move in as soon as possible to resolve the situation. I believe the current situation that KCM is facing does not require us to us go beyond two months. We have enough manpower, but what is lacking is recapitalisation. Money is needed, and so, if the Government has no money, we just have to find partners to partner with and revive the mine, so that we save the jobs for our Zambian citizens. We can also get something from the mining taxes.

Mr Speaker, the same applies with MCM. It is not the New Dawn Government that put MCM in this dire need. It is the same hon. Colleagues of ours. That is why I was saying it is important to wear a face of shame. It pays to wear a face of shame. People on the Copperbelt are suffering not because of the New Dawn Administration, but because of our hon. Colleagues and they do not want to bear their own mistakes. It does not pay. We have to be realistic. We need to revive the entire Copperbelt. The mines are gone. They are rally under intensive care because of their carelessness. So, we need to take full responsibility as Zambians and find a way of coming out of this situation.

This is not a blame game. If we were blaming, we would have been blaming them. However, the President came on the Floor of this House to find a way of how we can come out of the situation that we are in, bearing in mind that we have a mammoth task of reaching 3 million metric tonnes of copper by the year 2030. In the current state of these mines, it is practically impossible. We cannot revive those mines. So, they need recapitalisation. It is not only KCM and MCM, but also Chambishi Metals Plc, which houses a cobalt plant and has been under the wheels for so many years. It also needs to be revived because the Government, like the President indicated, has a big task ahead of it, that of coming up with an electrical manufacturing industry, which can create employment for our youths and many Zambians.

Sir, as I conclude, on wetland farming, the people of Sinazongwe are doing a lot on wetland farming. I believe the Ministry of Agriculture should find time to come and appreciate how the people of Sinazongwe, which is a drought-prone area, are utilising the wetlands along the shores of Lake Kariba and some streams that take water into Lake Kariba. We have a lot to learn. We have to support the President on wetland farming as it is the way to go for drought-prone areas like Sinazongwe and other valley areas.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Sefulo (Mwandi): Mr Speaker, thank you so much for allowing the people of Mwandi to add their voice to the eloquent speech that was delivered by our President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, the Commander-in-Chief of all armed forces under the theme “Working Together towards Socio-Economic Transformation: Stimulating Economic Growth for Improved Livelihoods.”

Mr Speaker, let me make mention that I will touch on four things that were delivered by the President, but before I go there, allow me to congratulate the Patriotic Front (PF) for winning the Luangwa mayoral seat. In its time, this by-election would have been filled by the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU). The DMMU would have literally moved to Luangwa.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Sefulo: I experienced that myself. In every by-election that was there in the Western Province, we saw mealie meal from the DMMU. We want to congratulate this Government for being very, very prudent in the management of resources such that we have not seen even one bag of mealie meal in this election. Congratulations to the PF for retaining the seat. You did not even win. There is a difference between retaining and winning; you retained the seat.

Mr Speaker, the President touched on a very, very important thing that is very close to our hearts, which is economic transformation and job creation. I will start by talking about job creation. People in this House come and talk about the Government employing 30,000 teachers and 11,000 health workers. I want to add that economists say that there is a multiplier effect. When you talk about job creation, you talk about 30,000 jobs that have been created, but in actual sense, the jobs that have been created by the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government are more than 30,000 for the teachers. Why am I saying so? Not all those teachers who were employed by the Government were not working. Some of them came from the private sector and when they were employed by the Government, there are vacancies that were left in the private sector, which are part of the jobs that have been created by the UPND Government.

Mr Speaker, when you talk about the health workers, there are so many health workers who worked for private hospitals. So, when they joined the Government, there are vacancies that were left in the private sector. Those are some of the jobs that the UPND has created. So, there is a multiplier effect on the jobs that were created by the UPND. Let me give an example. In Mwandi, we have one bakery. Just the other day, I received a call. The person running it had one person working in the bakery, but now, because of the purchasing power that the UPND has introduced, that person has managed to employ four people. So, when we are talking about job creation, we are not just talking about the 30,000, there are more than that. If you apply that principle, you will realise that the UPND Government has actually created more than the 30,000 and 11,000 jobs.

Mr Speaker, let me come to the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). There are those who are trivialising the K25.7 million CDF allocation. I wish I could ask the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to take it back to the K1.6 million that they previously had even just for a year so that they can learn to appreciate the K25.7 million that they have been given. Someone is talking about the DCF allocation being a quarter of the Budget. The quarter that they had is what they gave in five years. Today, the CDF has enabled job creation. We in the rural constituencies have seen the jobs created by the CDF. In Mwandi, carpenters were able to make desks using the CDF so that no child sits on the floor, and I can say we have made more than 716 desks in one year. Those jobs are created using the CDF. So, when we are talking about job creation, we do not end there. Even in the CDF, there is a lot of job creation.

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Mr Sefulo: Mr Speaker, I ask the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to take those who are saying “question” to getting K1.6 million. You will see them coming back to say thank you. You know, I once said in this House that there was a man who always stood and said that the neighbour’s glasses were dirty. Little did he realise that he was seeing the neighbour’s glass as dirty because his glasses had not been cleaned. So, I encourage those hon. Members who are failing to see the good that the New Dawn Government and the CDF is doing, like the hon. Member for Nakonde, to clean their glasses.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Sefulo: I assure you, you will see the good that the New Dawn Government is doing.

Mr Speaker, let me also talk about the debt. The President was very, very clear. He said our Government inherited a broken economy. From who? These people (pointing to the left). These people are the ones who left this broken economy that we are trying to fix today. They should be part of the solution and they should not come and oppose the efforts of the Government.

Mr Speaker, allow me to quote what the President said:

“Fiscal management was excessively deficient, and was characterised by poor resource allocation, reckless borrowing which increased the cost of debt service - resulting in debt defaults.”

Mr Speaker, the same people who put the Zambian people in this situation are coming into this House trying to condemn what the New Dawn Government is trying to do to restructure the debt that they left. They should be ashamed. There are Zambian people who are talking about the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and asking why the Government has gone to the IMF. It is because of the debt that was left by the PF Government.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Sefulo: If it did not leave this unsustainable debt, this Government would have not gone to the IMF. They are the reason we have gone there, yet they sit comfortably pointing accusing fingers at the New Dawn Government.

Hon. Government Members: Shame!

Ms Sefulo: Mr Speaker, this Government has also indicated that with regards to employment, it will continue on the same trajectory.

With those few remarks, Mr Speaker, I want to say that the people of Mwandi managed to beat the DMMU. No matter how many things they took there, we still beat them. We, the people of Mwandi are very happy with the speech that the President delivered and we are in full support.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kalobo (Wusakile): Thank you, Mr Speaker, for the opportunity to add the voice of the people of Wusakile to the debate on the President’s Address to this august House.

Mr Speaker, allow me to begin by saying that the President’s Speech, as well as the Eight National Development Plan (ENDP), focus on the economic transformation agenda for improved livelihoods. This speech has shown how macroeconomic fundamentals such as inflation, the exchange rate, and interest rates are falling sharply, and the economy is projected to grow by 4 per cent.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kalobo: That is very commendable, Mr Speaker. However, this speech has failed to demonstrate a corresponding drop in the cost of living, which still remains very high. If the cost of living still remains high, is the United Party for National Development (UPND) transformation agenda trickling down to the people?

Mr Mung’andu: No.

Mr Kalobo: Mr Speaker, if the answer is no, as I have heard, then a pertinent question to ask is: For whom are they transforming the economy? We leave it there. Let me go to debt crisis and the International Monetary Fund (IMF) bailout package.

Mr Speaker, we do all agree that debt restructuring is necessary. However, the 2008 economic recession had proved that austerity measures cannot spur a country towards economic recovery. Economic recovery can only be achieved through a stimulus economic plan, yet, the IMF US$1.3billion loan bailout is being praised as Zambia’s home grown solution to economic recovery.

Mr Speaker, ours is a kantemba economy such that any injection of foreign exchange will result –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order! What does the word kantemba mean?

Mr Kalobo: Mr Speaker, I will translate. Our economy is a kantemba economy such that any injection of forex will result in inflation and falling exchange rates. A kantemba means a ka small business. This is what this translates has translated in this –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: How does that relate to the Zambian economy?

Mr Kalobo: Mr Speaker, I am saying it is a ka small economy, like a ka small business.

Mr Mutale: Like a ka something.

Mr Kalobo: Mr Speaker, our economy is like a ka small business. When we inject any forex into it, it will result into inflation and a falling exchange rate. This is what has resulted into this cosmetic economic recovery the UPND is talking about today.

Mr Nkandu: Question!

Mr Kalobo: Mr Speaker, if we really had economic managers in Government, they would have gotten fewer taxes from the mines to service our debt stock. What is home grown when we know that very soon, all subsidies on fuel, electricity and probably agriculture are going to be removed? How is this economic transformation agenda going to improve the lives of the people who will be expected to pay a full cost recovery of goods and services?

Mr Speaker, in developed countries, do they not have subsidies that help or cushion the citizens from benefiting from the goods and services as a social, public, and common good? On this particular subject, the people of Wusakile and Zambia at large are demanding that the UPND Government should be transparent and provide clarifications on how the economic transformation agenda is going to improve the lives of the people and trickle down. If that is not done, then the US$1.3 billion loan bailout will be a poisoned chalice for Zambia.

Hon. UPND. Members: Question!

Ms Mulenga: Tell them.

Mr Mutale: Tell them. Muleumfwa, Mulekutika?

Mr Kalobo: Mr Speaker, let me talk about mining. I liked it when the President talked about our colleagues in Mansa who have got artisanal and small scale mining licenses. He provided a clear policy where he said the miners do not need to transport that manganese. The Government will put up processing plants there. That is very clear. However, Sir, I am concerned when it comes to KCM and MCM. On page 14, the President said that the Government is committed to – let me just read so that I do not mislead the House.

Mr Speaker, just yesterday, you were launching the Research Awareness Week and this is a House of facts. The first paragraph on page 14 states as follows:

Government remains committed to addressing the challenges affecting the operations at Konkola and Mopani Copper Mines, and measures are being taken to safeguard jobs for our people and significantly turn around production around the two assets.”

Mr Speaker, this statement has not provided a good policy direction. It has left us speculating. We do not know if the solution that the Government has in mind is to recapitalise the two mines. We do not know if it is privatisation. If it is privatisation, again, we are left to wonder why the Government has taken long to do so. So, we are speculating that if the idea is to privatise and it is taking long, what is the cause? We are now thinking that maybe Article 210 (2) and (3) of the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Act No. 2 of 2016, is problematic for our hon. Colleagues.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kalobo: That is what we are thinking. We are left to speculate because the President has not provided a clear direction. My hon. Colleague from Sinazongwe was bemoaning or debating that the two mines –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order! Order, hon. Member!

The hon. Member’s time expired.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chinkuli (Kanyama): Mr Speaker, thank you for this opportunity that you have given me to debate on this matter which has been laid on the Table.

Mr Speaker, allow me to talk about the misconduct or fraudulent conduct by those who are charged with powers like those of an hon. Member of Parliament or hon. Minister, typically involving bribery. I am talking about corruption here. One writer defined corruption as a process by which a word or expression is changed from its original state, like the concept of ubomba mwibala.

Hon. Members: Meaning?

Mr Chinkuli: He who works in the field.

Mr Speaker, corruption has robbed this country of its life and resources. A number of issues have been lost due to corruption. If you look at the way the people of Kanyama are suffering now, you will see that it is due to corruption that us as leaders have embarked on. People have lost their lives. The people in Kanyama are grappling with floods. Had it not been for this scourge, the people of Kanyama would have been living in a good environment. Now, because of this vice that the previous regime failed to contain, people are suffering like that.

Mr Speaker, this time around, I am looking for funds to ensure that those drainages and roads are worked on.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

ADJOURNMENT

The Minister of Defence and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr Lufuma): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

______

The House adjourned at 1911 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday, 22^nd September, 2022.

____________

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