Wednesday, 13th July, 2022

Wednesday, 13^th July, 2022

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SECOND DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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ANNOUNCEMENT BY MR SPEAKER

POSTPONEMENT OF BASIC HEALTH CHECKUPS BY NATIONAL HEART CENTRE

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, you will recall that on Friday, 1^st July, 2022, the House was informed that the National Heart Centre had been authorised to conduct basic health checkups and provide information on cardiovascular diseases. The exercise was scheduled to take place on 14^th July, 2022, at Parliament Buildings, but I now inform the House that the exercise will take place on Thursday, 21^st July, 2022, at the Main Reception Area, Parliament Buildings, from 0900 hours to 1700 hours.

You are all encouraged to find time to access the health services and vital information on cardiovascular diseases.

I thank you.

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MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE

Mr Kafwaya (Lunte): On a matter of urgent public importance, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Kafwaya: Mr Speaker, thank you for according me this opportunity to rise on a very important matter of urgent public importance, which is directed at the hon. Minister of Transport and Logistics.

Mr Speaker, the Road Transport and Safety Agency (RTSA), an institution under President Hakainde Hichilema’s Ministry of Transport and Logistics, has just announced an increase in bus fares. Commuters will now be expected to pay more than they were paying. The institution has actually increased fares three times in the ten months of the United Party for National Development’s (UPND’s) being in power.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister might not be aware of it, but the increases have caused the cost of living to go up for the poor majority of Zambians, and this is happening at a time when the UPND is taking away the few jobs that are available for the youths and the poor, as demonstrated by the demolition of mobile money booths, which was done indiscriminately.

Mr Speaker, you may want to consider the fact that at the time that the UPND is increasing the cost of living for our people through the unmeasured increasing of transport fares, it is also protecting corrupt hon. Ministers.

Hon. UPND Members: Ah!

Mr Kafwaya: I have newspaper articles to lay on the Table of the House.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, you rose on a matter of urgent public importance.

Mr Kafwaya: Yes.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: So, do not debate; just raise the issue at hand so that we hear you.

Mr Kafwaya: This is my last point, Mr Speaker, which …

Mr Sing’ombe: You are arguing with the Chair.

Interruptions

Mr Kafwaya: … is that the cost of living is high as a result of increased transportation costs at the time the UPND Government is protecting corrupt hon. Ministers.

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Mr Kafwaya: The UPND is protecting the corrupt. The President should not shield his Ministers.

Mr Speaker, I will lay this (waving a newspaper) on the Table.

Mr Speaker, my question is: Is this what was meant when the UPND Government said, “HH will fix it”?

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, …

Mr Chaatila: On a point of procedure, Mr Speaker.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: ... you are conflicting yourself but, if I curtail you, I will seem unfair to you.

Mr Kafwaya: Yes.

Mr Michelo: You can walk out!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Instead of you rising and stating the way things are, you are going off your way.

Mr Lusambo: Ninshi alemukanya ukulanda?

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, I will not allow you to be unruly in this House.

Interruptions

Hon. UPND Members: Sit down!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, you can continue, but stick to the point.

Mr Kafwaya: Mr Speaker, why is the fixing of the economy centred on squeezing the poor?

Mr Michelo: Which poor?

Mr Kafwaya: Why are the poor people suffering the brunt of the UPND –

Mr Michelo: Are thieves poor?

Interruptions

Mr Kafwaya: They are confusing me, Mr Speaker. I have a flow of thought, and I need your protection. I am looking at you, not anyone else.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: You are protected, but you are going off your way.

Mr Kafwaya: Can I finish by asking –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: As long as you listen to the advice I am giving you, stay focused and raise the matter of urgent public importance.

Mr Kafwaya: Absolutely. Let me conclude by asking …

Eng. Milupi: On a point of procedure, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kafwaya: … whether this is the true meaning of ‘HH will fix it’.

I seek your serious direction on the matter, Mr Speaker.

Mr Sing’ombe: ‘Transport and Logistics’ will fix it.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: The matter that you are rising on –

Mr Kafwaya remained upstanding.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, resume your seat.

Firstly, the matter has to be of current occurrence, and your matter qualifies on that that score. It also has to be a matter of life and death. The problem is that you are conflicting yourself by debating instead of raising the point that you rose to raise.

Nevertheless, hon. Minister –

Mr Anakoka: Osabema fwaka before coming to Parliament.

Mr Kafwaya: Let me lay the newspaper on the Table.

Hon. Member: What is the ruling?

Mr Kafwaya laid the document on the Table.

Mr J. E. Banda: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister of Transport and Logistics, please respond.

The Minister of Transport and Logistics (Mr Tayali): Mr Speaker, it is very clear that the hon. Member wants to take advantage of factors in the economy that are not a constant.

Sir, my Government, through the Ministry of Energy, announced a new pricing mechanism for petroleum products. What we have done is that in an effort to dismantle the huge debt that was created by the previous Administration …

Hon. UPND Members: By PF!

Mr Tayali: … through an imprudent way of running the transport sector, particularly in the field of petroleum products. This Government would not want to continue with the huge debt that it found.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tayali: We hope to dismantle that debt.

Mr Anakoka: Correct!

Mr Tayali: Mr Speaker, the new pricing mechanism takes care of the fluctuations in the market at the global level. Once there is an adjustment, in order to assist the stakeholders in the transport sector to be able to meet their operational costs, this market reacts accordingly.

We have also stated, Mr Speaker, that, sadly, the trend, in terms of fuel pricing, is currently upward due to factors that we do not control, for instance, the war between Russia and Ukraine. However, the moment the global market reacts, like we can see the appreciation in the Kwacha, which is the medium that we use to import petroleum products, I think, we will also immediately pass on the benefit of the reduction in the fuel pricing mechanism to the consumers. Further, the stakeholders and the Road Transport and Safety Agency (RTSA) get together to agree minimal adjustments in the price of petroleum products in order for there to be sustainability in the sector, and that invariably results in bus fares going up.

Mr Speaker, I advise the hon. Members on your left to not trivialise important matters; they ought to have due regard for them. When the Government is trying ...

Mr Kafwaya: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kampyongo indicated.

Interruptions

Mr Tayali: ... by all means to fix the mess that was left by the previous administration, ...

Mr Chitotela: “Mess” is unparliamentary.

Mr Tayali: ... can they, please, accord us the necessary space in the five years mandate that we have been given to fix the mess that they left.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chitotela: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised by the hon. Member –

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, bearing in mind that the hon. Member of Parliament –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

To start with, I did not acknowledge your point of order. So, you cannot just rise and start speaking.

Hon. Member for Shiwang’andu, go ahead and raise your point of order.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, thank you so much for allowing me to make a follow-up on the reaction of the hon. Minister of Transport and Logistics.

Interruptions

Mr Kampyongo: That is what happens. He has made a statement in response.

Mr J. E. Banda: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Kambita: On a point of procedure, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

If you want to turn this into an unruly House, I will ask some of you to leave. I will not tolerate anyone doing that.

Hon. Member, you can continue.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, thank you so much.

Sir, we appreciate the hon. Minister’s immediate response. This is as it should be. However, I want to remind him that the people of Zambia look to him for a service. There is no blame game that will help him. So, he has to take responsibility.

Hon. Mr Kambita: On a point of procedure, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, the question to the hon. Minister is –

Hon. Government Members: Question on what?

Mr Kampyongo: On his statement.

Mr J. E. Banda: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kambita: On a point of procedure, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I think, we need to guide each other very well.

Mr Mufalali: On a point of procedure, Mr Speaker.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, you allowed the hon. Minister to react, and we have the responsibility to follow up on his reaction. That is the rule.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

Let the hon. Member who has been given the Floor continue.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, while we appreciate what the hon. Minister has shared with us regarding the stakeholders whom he engaged, the hon. Minister is also aware that the salaries of Zambians who are in employment do not get adjusted as he has guided, meaning –

Interruptions

Mr Kampyongo: Her Honour the Vice-President, look after your people behind you, Madam.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: No, hon. Member!

Mr Kampyongo: What is the Government doing to cushion the negative impact that this increment –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

You rose on a point of order.

Mr Kampyongo: No, it is not a point of order, Sir.

An Hon. Government Member interjected.

Mr Kampyongo: We have been here long enough. So, we need to guide you.

Mr Speaker, you allowed him to respond, and we are allowed to ask questions on points of clarification on his response. That is how it works. If he was not ready, he should have indicated that to you and asked to get back to us with a detailed response…

Mr J. E. Banda: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kampyongo: … that we would then interrogate. However, he volunteered to respond immediately, and we have a duty to ask him follow-up questions.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: No!

Laughter

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

You rose on a point of order. So, you are supposed to state the breach, if any.

Mr Chitotela: It is I who rose on a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: You rose on a point of order, so you are supposed to state your point of order.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, let me make it very clear that when we raise matters of urgent public importance, you can reserve the ruling and ask the hon. Ministers to get back to us with a response so that after he or she responds, we are able to interrogate the response. That is the rule. However, if you allow an hon. Minister to respond and he voluntarily responds, then, we have the responsibility to ask follow-up questions on the response.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order! Let us be very orderly.

When the hon. Minister was on the Floor speaking, you indicated that you wanted to interject.

Mr Chitotela: I indicated because the word “mess” is an unparliamentary.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: All right.

Hon. Member, you can ask the hon. Minister.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, we appreciate your guidance. This is how it should be.

Hon. Government Members: No!

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Hon. Member: Pandora’s Box!

Mr Lusambo: Tekanyeni. Mulemona kwati kabwambe aka?

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, we appreciate the quick response the hon. Minister gave to the august House on the matter of agent public importance raised by my colleague, the hon. Member of Parliament for Lunte.

Mr Speaker, we appreciated the hon. Minister’s statement about the consultations with stakeholders that culminated in the increase of fares. I also said that there are other stakeholders, the commuters, who have limited income, especially those who work, but whose salaries are determined once, meaning that while the cost fluctuations he talked about are happening, their income remain limited and static. What is the Government doing to cushion this class of people in order for them to continue surviving and commuting from their homes to places where they earn a living?

Mr Tayali: Mr Speaker, –

Mr Mufalali: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: On whom?

Mr Mufalali: On the procedure being used here.

Interruptions

Mr Chaatila: On a point of procedure!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Hon. Lusambo, what is your constituency?

Laughter

Hon. Member: Kabushi.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Yes, Kabushi.

I think, you are becoming unruly, and I will not entertain your being unruly.

Mr Lusambo: Ine ninshi nacita?

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Yes, you have been making running commentaries. If you continue, I would rather you leave the House.

Mr Lusambo: Ine?

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Yes, I will make you leave the House. If you are trying to be unruly, you will not do that with me.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: So, let us just try to behave ourselves. The business should be transacted in a very honourable way. We are honourable. So, let us avoid acting otherwise.

The hon. Minister can continue.

Mr Tayali: Mr Speaker, allow me to merely put it on record that as a Government, we are watching the situation very closely. We do not take pleasure in seeing the general citizenry continue to go through the hardships that are brought about by factors beyond our control. So, as we continue to monitor the situation, whenever there is a need for the Government to step in, the Government will do so at an appropriate time.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Mufalali, you rose on a point of order.

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, I want to understand one thing here. The procedures of this House are very clear.

Sir, the segment in which you allowed an hon. Member to speak was one in which he wanted to raise a point of order on a matter of urgent public importance. From the point you allowed the hon. Minister to respond, some people started making some demands, and the House is now degenerating into something else because of something that is not procedural. There is no way an hon. Member can just rise and start asking an hon. Minister. On what premise?

Interruptions

Hon. Opposition Members: The Standing Orders!

Mr Mufalali: There is no such thing. We must have order here instead of the chaos that these hon. Members are trying to create.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr J. E. Banda: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Thank you, hon. Member.

When a Minister makes a statement on a matter of urgent public importance, it is allowed that we take a follow-up question. Our Standing Orders allow that.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Rev. Katuta: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A point of order has been raised.

Rev. Katuta: Mr Speaker, we have Standing Orders on how we should behave in this august House. I am not the one who is supposed to preside, but I feel really disappointed with the way our male colleagues are conducting themselves in this House.

Hon. Members: Ah!

Rev. Katuta: Mr Speaker, out there, the people are laughing at us.

Mr Speaker, we are here to take care of serious business. So, I would like to know why each time you preside, people want to make this House look like a circus. I really need your serious ruling, because we cannot go on like this. We are not here to settle political scores or anything like that; we are here to take care of the nation’s concerns and issues.

Hon. Member: Point of order number what?

Laughter

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, your observation is quite timely. We are here for serious business, and we were not elected to waste money. On the contrary, there are people who want to shed off their weight politically, which is wrong because this is not the right forum.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Politics demands that we always accept situations as they unfold. Whoever is in the political arena should be able to accept the prevailing status and accord it all the respect it deserves.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: I have allowed the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International –

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: The page had gone due to the technical challenges that we are having.

Hon. Members, before the ministerial statement is read, the hon. Members who indicated to ask follow-up questions to the hon. Minister of Transport and Logistics can go ahead. I will take three questions from the hon. Members for Pambashe, Lunte and Chama North, respectively.

Mr Chitotela (Pambashe): Mr Speaker, I thank you for defending the democracy of Parliament according to Standing Order No. 136, which allows hon. Members of Parliament to make follow-ups. The Standing Orders provides for one hour after a Minister has made a statement. So, we needed to make follow-ups for one hour because that is what the book we adopted states.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has clearly stated that the increase in the price of petroleum products has resulted in Zambians bearing the consequence in terms of increased transportation costs, which are eroding disposable incomes among the people of Zambia.

Sir, the hon. Minister comes from Ndola Central, where many people are in the working class, and there are peri-urban areas like Chipulukusu and Sinya. What mitigation measures is he considering taking to make sure that our people who are feeling the impact of the unsustainable and unplanned increase in their cost of living are helped by the Government? Is he considering introducing subsidies in terms of a food pack for those who may not manage to fend for themselves? There are low-income people who live hand-to-mouth, and the cost of living is going beyond their means. Is he considering introducing the subsidy for those people who live in Sinya, Chipulukusu and other areas in his constituency and across Zambia?

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: I did not understand your question. Are you asking the hon. Minister of Transport and Logistics that question?

Mr Chitotela: Yes, Mr Speaker, bearing in mind that the impact of the cost of transportation has an effect on the living standards of our people. There are people in Mushili, Sinya and Chipulukusu who go to the market every day to sell, but they are unable to do so because of the high cost of transportation. So, they are starving. Is the Government considering introducing food subsidies for those people in Chipulukusu, who voted for it?

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: I think, your question is out of order.

Mr Jamba: On a point of procedure, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Your question is out of order.

You have asked on a subject that is different from the one at hand. So, I will allow the –

Mr Jamba: On a point of procedure, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

I will allow the hon. Member for Lunte to ask his question.

Mr Jamba: On a point of procedure, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kafwaya (Lunte): Mr Speaker, I have to appreciate you for directing the hon. Minister to give an immediate response, I also thank him for the response he has made. However, I have to inform you that I am disappointed that he accused me of trivialising national matters. I think that I have a responsibility –

Mr Kambita: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, you rose to ask the hon. Minister a question but, now, you have started debating. These are the same things that cause discontentment in this House. Ask the hon. Minister the question.

Mr Kafwaya: Mr Speaker, let me ask the question.

Sir, in the hon. Minister’s thinking, why is his Government failing to find immediate solutions …

Mr Katakwe: Because you stole!

Mr Kafwaya: … to transportation costs, which affect poor people, when at the same time, the Government is shielding corrupt Ministers, as stated in the newspaper I laid on the Table?

Mr Tayali: Mr Speaker, first of all, there is no quick fix to the mess, the problems, that this Government inherited –

Mr Chitotela: On a point of order, Sir.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, you can resume your seat. The hon. Minister is on the Floor.

Mr Chitotela: The hon. Minister has uttered an unparliamentary word. ‘Mess’ is unparliamentary.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, resume your seat.

Mr Tayali: Mr Speaker, thank you for your protection.

Sir, allow me to repeat: There is no quick fix for the critical problems that our citizens are currently going through as a result of the many years of neglect that were occasioned on this country by the hon. Members on your left.

Mr Speaker, my Government is working tirelessly to find long-lasting solutions, one of which is the remodelling of Indeni Petroleum Refinery, and the hon. Minister of Energy is on record guiding this country on the way forward for this country insofar as the pricing mechanism and procurement of petroleum products are concerned.

Mr Speaker, with all the measure that my Government is putting place, it is sooner, rather than later, that citizen will realise that this Government means well and that it is here, as it promised them, to fix the country’s problems once and for whole.

On the rumours and innuendo about corruption, Mr Speaker, this House is here to deal with current and justifiable issues. I am unaware of what the tabloids are saying, and I do not think that we are here to discuss stories in the tabloids. If the hon. Member has evidence of any hon. Minister who is corrupt, he has the responsibility to go to the Anti-corruption Commission (ACC) and lay it on the table so that such a Minister can be dealt with.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: The hon. Minister used the unparliamentary word ‘mess’ but, because of the way you conduct yourselves, it was very difficult for me to pay attention to every word that he uttered.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: However, he should withdraw the word mess.

Mr Tayali: Mr Speaker, I withdraw and replace the word “mess” with the ‘financial non-frugality that the hon. Members on your left had accessioned on this country’.

Laughter

Hon. Member: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Mr Speaker, thank you very much for according me this opportunity to ask a follow-up question.

Mr Speaker, the war between Iraq, I mean, between Russia and Ukraine –

Interruptions

Mr Mtayachalo: Mr Speaker, am I protected?

Sir, the end of the war between Russia and Ukraine is not in sight, and there is the possibility that crude oil prices will continue to go up. So, the cost of transportation is a major source of concern, and this is an area about which the hon. Minister of Transport and Logistics must be very concerned. Is he considering asking his hon. Colleagues in the Cabinet to consider the monthly adjustment of the transport allowances of workers, especially those of public sector workers, whose salaries are very low? The Government should also urge employers to do the same so that workers can beat the high cost of transportation.

Mr Tayali: Mr Speaker, this Government will do everything possible to not allow the situation to get out of control. I am sure, the hon. Member understands the basic economics that we need to build the economic capacity for us to be able to extend some help to our citizens. We inherited empty coffers, and this is a very genuine and serious statement. The coffers have not allowed us room to manoeuvre. However, the situation, on a daily basis, continues to improve, and once we have built up the fiscal space, we will be able to extend certain gestures to citizens.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Thank you for a very good response, hon. Minister.

Laughter

MR MUNIR ZULU, HON. MEMBER FOR LUMEZI, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF TOURISM ON HUMAN LIVES BEING THREATENED BY ELEPHANTS IN LUMEZI

Mr Munir Zulu (Lumezi): Mr Speaker, thank you kindly for permitting the good people of Lumezi to rise on a matter of urgent public importance pursuant to Standing Order No. 134. I raise this matter on the hon. Minister of Tourism.

Mr Speaker, two days ago, a lady from Chief Chitungulu’s area collided with an elephant and is admitted to Lumezi Mission Hospital. The elephants have started migrating from the valley to the plateau.

Sir, I know that some concession could have been cancelled and that the lives of our people in Lumezi are in danger.

Mr Speaker, I seek your guidance.

The Minister of Tourism (Mr Sikumba): Mr Speaker, I sympathise with the family of that woman who, unfortunately, collided with an elephant.

Sir, just yesterday, I was on the Floor of the House informing the nation of the various measures the Government has put in place to make sure that human-wildlife conflict does not escalate.

Mr Speaker, I must also correct the hon. Member of Parliament for Lumezi by stating that we did not cancel any hunting concession contract.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

_______

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

THE BENEFITS OF HOSTING THE 41^ST ORDINARY SESSION OF THE EXECUTIVE COUNCIL OF THE AFRICAN UNION AND THE 4^TH MID-YEAR CO-ORDINATION MEETING BETWEEN THE AFRICAN UNION AND REGIONAL ECONOMIC COMMUNITIES AND THE REGIONAL MECHANISMS

The Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation (Mr Kakubo): Mr Speaker, on 1^st July, 2022, you directed that it was prudent for me to issue a ministerial statement on the benefits to Zambia of hosting the 4^th Mid-Year Co-ordination Meeting between the African Union (AU) and Regional Economic Communities (RECs) and Regional Mechanisms (RMs), scheduled to take place in Lusaka from the 14^th to 17^th of July, 2022. The directive arose from the debate by the hon. Member of Parliament for Kantanshi, Mr Mumba. On the same day, arising from Mr Mundubile, hon. Member of Parliament for Mporokoso’s questioning of the benefits of foreign trips undertaken by the Republican President, you directed that we make comments on that issue as well.

Mr Speaker, as I thank you for this opportunity to present this statement to the august House, I wish to state the fact that the summit that will be held in Lusaka this week will be held under the theme, “Building Resilience in Nutrition and Food Security on the African Continent: Strengthen Agriculture, Accelerate the Human Capital, Social and Economic Development”.

Mr Speaker, the House might wish to note that the Assembly of the AU held in January, 2015, approved the offer by Zambia to host the 41^st Session of the Executive Council and the 4^thMid-Year Co-ordination Summit and, in June, 2022, our Government signed the agreement with the African Union Commission (AUC) to host the important event. In view of the ongoing reforms in the AU, it was also agreed by the Assembly that the Extraordinary Sessions and one Ordinary Summit be held annually as the need arose.

Mr Speaker, I report to the House and the nation that all the necessary preparations have been made and that we are prepared to welcome the Member States of the AU to our country. As you may be aware, President Hakainde Hichilema constituted a ministerial committee that I am privileged to chair, deputised by my Colleague, the hon. Minister of Tourism, for the purpose of co-ordinating the preparations for the summit. The committee and the AUC have been working closely around the clock to ensure that the preparations are on course and all our obligations as the host country are met.

Mr Speaker, on 31^st May, 2022, President Hakainde Hichilema commissioned the newly-built Kenneth Kaunda Wing at the Mulungushi International Conference Centre (MICC). The new conference facility, which has a seating capacity of 2,500 delegates, is prepared to host the summit.

Mr Speaker, it is remarkable that Zambia is ready to host a gathering of this magnitude. In this regard, it is critical that Zambia, as a country, takes advantage of the opportunities that come with hosting the summit to promote its beauty, hospitality, tourism and cultural heritage, and the numerous trade and investment opportunities.

Mr Speaker, I also inform the House that the 4^thMid-Year Summit on 17^th July, 2022, is expected to be attended by thirteen Heads of State and Government of the Member States, of which five represent what we call the Bureau of the Assembly of the Union while eight represent the Regional Economic Communities (RECs). The 41^st Session of the Executive Council is to be attended by fifty-one Ministers responsible for foreign affairs, including Zambia, as host, out of the fifty-five AU Member States. As a country, we are feel very honoured and are grateful for the opportunity to host a summit of this magnitude.

Mr Speaker, President of Zambia, as earlier stated, opened the newly built conference facilities. Therefore, his attendance of the summit is in regard of his being the host President.

Sir, among other outcomes, the summit will:

deliberate on, and approve, the budget for the AU Assembly for 2023;

review the implementation of previous decisions of the Executive Council and General Assembly;

discuss issues of co-ordination between the AU and RECs; and

receive updates and deliberate on some topical issues affecting the African continent, such as the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19), climate change, and peace and security.

Mr Speaker, the AU Summit offers an opportunity for African leaders to align and harmonise continental development programmes in order to remove duplication of efforts between the AU and RECs, as well as to collaborate in resource mobilisation for continental programmes, including the stemming of illicit financial flows on the continent in order to accelerate the continental transformation agenda, as outlined in Agenda 2063.

Sir, given what I have said above, there is no doubt that Zambia will benefit from the outcomes of the deliberations by advancing its interests. Another benefit of this event is that the African leadership will have an opportunity to exchange ideas on how to accelerate regional integration initiatives on the African continent. For Zambia, as a land-linked country, participating in, and hosting, such a high-level forum is a great opportunity to accrue from engagements maximum benefits that will put it on the right footing for socio-economic development. Hosting the summit will further promote Zambia’s image as a peaceful, friendly and stable nation that is highly esteemed for its contribution to the enhancement of political, social and economic development in the region and on the continent at large. The high-level event will not only enhance Zambia’s profile and stature, but also trigger a sense of nationalism and patriotism, and promote unity and pride among all the people of Zambia.

Mr Speaker, Zambia has a rare opportunity to showcase its hospitality and investment opportunities to not only the continent, but also to the global community. As it hosts this event, it stands to establish networks and strategic partnerships that will facilitate the unlocking of tourism investments and business opportunities for Zambia and Zambians that will create a platform for sustained growth and development through increased tourism development as well as access to regional and international linkages.

Mr Speaker, the country forecasts a boost in tourism through the concept of meetings, incentives, conferences and exhibitions (MICE). Further, the summit will offer the private sector an opportunity to develop business linkages through side events, thereby contributing to economic growth. This is an important opportunity that will create a platform for business entities to meet potential partners, thereby elevating the potential for the increased trade and investment inflows that the country desperately needs.

Mr Speaker, the multiplier effect of hosting the summit will positively affect different sectors of our economy, ranging from the hospitality industry, which was badly hit by COVID-19; agriculture, information and communication technology (ICT), the financial sector and tourism, to mention but a few.

Mr Speaker, the House might be aware that the 34^th Ordinary Session of the Assembly of the AU adopted the Continental Africa Water Investment Programme (AIP) whose expected result is the leveraging of about US$30 billion worth of funding for water investments annually by 2030 and the subsequent creation of about 5 million jobs over the same period.

Mr Speaker, I, at this point, underscore the fact that five countries from the five regional economic blocks of Africa were selected for piloting of the AIP and that Zambia was selected from the Southern region, with the provision of about US$5.75 billion for water security investments and the creation of about 200,000 formal jobs by 2030. I, therefore, inform the House that President Hakainde Hichilema will on the side lines of the AU Mid-Year Co-ordination Summit officially launch the Zambia Water Investment Programme (ZIP) on 16^th July, 2022, in order to leverage this continental initiative. That, too, will be beneficial to our country, given the fact that water is a key enabler of economic drivers, such as agriculture, tourism, industry and mining. Therefore, one hindrance to our attainment of industrialisation and economic diversification, a lack of access to adequate water resources, will be resolved. That initiative is urgent and necessary.

Mr Speaker, with the concerted efforts of all stakeholders, this Government remains committed to, and confident of, successfully hosting the 4^th African Union Mid-Year Co-ordination Summit.

Mr Speaker, at this juncture, I wish to illustrate the benefits of the foreign trips undertaken by the President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, in response to the matter raised by Hon. Mumba, Member of Parliament for Kantanshi.

Mr Speaker, all the foreign trips that have been made by the President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, were essential and in the spirit of implementing Zambia’s Foreign Policy. In this regard, it is important to note that the Head of State plays a strategic role in the country’s diplomacy, being the highest representative of our country on the global stage. Therefore, he is expected to be engaged in enhancing the political and economic relations between Zambia and its neighbours and the world in order to advance and safeguard the country’s interests and increase its influence on the international arena. So, the President’s visits are strategic in nature, they raise the profile of the country and are carefully selected to maximise their impact and results inland.

Mr Speaker, the President’s trips equally help to secure bilateral and multilateral agreements in various sectors, such as trade, infrastructure development, finance and health, and it is for this reason that the Head of State will, from time to time, undertake them.

At this point, Mr Speaker, allow me to state that from the President’s foreign trips, the country has benefited in the following ways, among others:

renewed confidence and good will from the international community, which is important, looking at the fact that in the last decade, the country defaulted on its debt and was in a situation in which its human rights record was in question;

we have been able to mobilise pledges of resources from various international and multinational institutions to support our various sectors that have been cracking under a difficult economy;

the President was able to hold negotiations with the International Monitory Fund (IMF) and World Bank to create a conducive environment for debt sustainability for our country. The negotiations had previously been delayed;

because of the President’s international engagements, Zambia was re-admitted to the Millennium Challenge Compact. The House might recall that Zambia was removed from the programme in 2018 due to the poor governance of the previous Government;

signing of the Green Growth Compact with the United Kingdom (UK) worth one £1 billion, of which £100 million has been reserved for small and medium enterprises (SME’s) in Zambia, and

renewed interest in trade and investment opportunities in Zambia.

Mr Speaker, let me underscore a few of the salient specific benefits from the trips that the President made:

the official visit to the United States of America (USA) for the high-level segment of the 76^th Session of the United Nations General Assembly (UNGA) from 20^th to 28^th September, 2021, unlocked the following additional U.S. Government funding through the United States Agency for international Development (USAID):

US$18.5 million in support of Zambia’s fight against the covid-19 pandemic. At the time the President took office, the vaccination levels were at 3 per cent only. As I speak, we are averaging 30 per cent as a result of interventions such as this one;

US$1 million was secured towards electrification of rural health centres; and

US$7.5 million was raised to support and restore our ailing democracy. Resources were also required to restore media freedoms, and the President put that at the top of his agenda;

the trip to the Twenty-Sixth Conference of Parties on Climate Change (COP26) in Glasgow, Scotland, UK, from 1^st to 3^rd November, 2021, had the following major benefits:

signing of the Green Growth Compact with the UK worth £1 billion, of which £100 million is reserved for SMEs in Zambia. It is the small businesses that will resuscitate our ailing economy;

tapping into the new Global Environment Facility (GEF) fund, in which over $5.2 billion is available to developing countries from 2022 to 2026. The funds are on a first-come-first-served basis, and the President was among the first leaders to request for the funding; and

increased financing to the Least Developed Countries Fund (LDCF) from which Zambia is eligible to get some funding;

the visit to the United Arab Emirates (UAE) to attend the World Exposition 2020 in Dubai from 18^th to 22^nd January, 2022, had, among many other major outcomes, the decision by the Emirates Investment Authority (EIA), which is worth $78 billion, to direct some of its third-party investors towards investment opportunities in Zambia. The House may wish to note that as a result of this intervention, two gigawatts of new electricity generation facilities are coming up. The power to be generated is more than is required for the mines and domestic use. So, Zambia will be able to export power to the rest of Africa;

(d) attendance of the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC)-Africa Business Forum held in Kinshasa, DRC, on 24^th and 25^th November, 2021, and the subsequent alignment of co-operation with the DRC led to the signing of an agreement between the sister countries biased towards the battery metals and ensuring that in the new boom in Copper prices, Zambia is not left behind, by forming a consortium with the DRC for competitive advantage. As you know, of the top seven countries in Africa that have copper and cobalt, Zambia and the DRC are the leading top two, and

the attendance of the 26^th Session of the Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting (CHOGM 2022) from 23^rd to 25^th June, 2022. The outcome was that negotiations with creditors were expedited order to create a conducive environment for our debt sustainability. Engagements in CHOGM are essential for Zambia because the country has been a long-standing partner of the Commonwealth, and we intend, as a Government, to ensure that it remains in the ‘Champions League’.

Mr Speaker, in conclusion, allow me to reiterate that the President of this country remains firmly committed to ensuring that Zambia remains an active member of the AU, hence the hosting of the AU Summit, and will continue to be a key partner in furthering the peace, security and development of the entire continent. The President also wishes to emphasise the importance of promoting intra-Africa trade and collaboration for the benefit of all Africans.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Thank you, hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation for that elaborate ministerial statement.

Hon. Members, you are now free to ask questions on points of clarifications on the ministerial statement issued by the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation.

Mr Mushanga (Bwacha): Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the statement he has issued on how ready Zambia is to host the African Union (AU) 4^th Mid-Year Co-ordination Meeting.

Mr Speaker, I just want to learn. Is it by design that the 4^th Mid-Year Co-ordination Summit will be attended by only thirteen Heads of State, not all the Heads of State who are members of the AU?

Sir, the hon. Minister also indicated that the capacity of the new conference hall is 2,500, but I know that he has made some statements outside Parliament to the effect that that the AU Summit will attract about 8,000 delegates. How do we reconcile the 2,500 capacity of the conference hall with the 8,000 delegates who are coming to our country?

Mr Kakubo: Mr Speaker, the questions asked by the hon. Member of Parliament for Bwacha are very important, as the answers to them will provide clarity not only to him and the House, but also to the rest of the country.

Mr Speaker, the AU Mid-Year Co-ordination Summit is not the General Assembly (GA), which all the Heads of State are required to attend. So, yes, it is by design that the Mid-Year Co-ordination Summit is attended by only thirteen Heads of State who represent the regional heads in Africa, such as the President of Malawi, Mr Chakwera, whose attendance is a result of the fact that he is the head of the Southern African Development Community (SADC). The heads of the East African Community (EAC) and the Economic Community of West African States (ECOWAS) are equally invited. So, in summary, it is not a Summit for all Heads of State; it is for thirteen Heads of State and Government, and it is by design of the AUC.

Mr Speaker, secondly, yes, the capacity of the conferencing facility is 2,500, but the delegates who are flowing into the country are expected to be in the region of 8,000. I will explain why.

Sir, apart from the Heads of State and Government who will come with their delegations, including their security, the international media will also attend the summit. There are also special invited guests of the Chairman of the AUC who are expected to participate in side meetings.

Mr Speaker, the overall attendance goes beyond the Summit, itself, because, within the Summit, different people attend different functions. So, the overall attendance is beyond the seating capacity because not everybody will sit in the auditorium.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Mr Speaker, it is good to see the hon. Minister back in the House, and we appreciate the –

Mr Kakubo: Question!

Mr Kampyongo: What are you questioning? You will even question yourself.

Hon. Member: Calendars!

Mr Kampyongo: You are even creating a situation that I am not thinking of.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has shared with us the fact that the Kenneth Kaunda International Conference Centre, which is just next door, is now available to host the African Union (AU) Executive Council, and the venue has all the halls required for the side meetings and all the meetings meant to go with the Summit. However, today, there was a very important event officiated by Her Honour the Vice-President, the exhibition of the AU Theme for 2022. What was the justification and cost of taking that event away from the venue of the Executive Council to a private music club at East Park Mall? As we know, it is standard practice to hold all the meetings culminating in the main Summit at the same venue, and that is why the Government built that facility.

Mr Kakubo: Mr Speaker, I seek your permission to get my face mask. I left it there (pointing to the Table)

Mr Kakubo walked to the Table and got his face mask.

Mr Kakubo: Mr Speaker, my colleague has brought in matters that did not constituent any part of my statement. I believe that your guidance was that hon. Members of Parliament sought clarifications on the issues that I raised in my statement. So, on this question, I pass.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, I think, the hon. Member asked a question on the ongoing summit. He was not quite categorical that the question bordered on the summit, but I thought of allowing him.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, thank you so much for allowing me this opportunity to make things very clear to the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation that he is hosting the AU Summit and that the event I referred to is a build up to the summit. I also shared with him the fact that by practice, all the events are supposed to take place at the venue, which the Government built at a great cost.

Mr Chilangwa: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kampyongo: So, I asked the hon. Minister what the justification was for his Government’s taking a very important event, the exhibition of the AU Theme for 2022, which is a build up to the main summit, to a music club at East Park Mall instead of the venue designated for the summit? I wanted to know the justification and the cost that went with the hosting of that event. That is critical, and I appreciate your guidance to the hon. Minister that we are talking about the summit, which he referred to.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Your question is quite clear, and I got you clearly the first time. However, but if you keep debating yourself and adding this and that, you will water down its essence. I still find some merit in your question. So, I ask the hon. Minister to respond.

Mr Kakubo: Mr Speaker, with that additional information, I wish to respond by saying that the meeting that Her Honour the Vice-President attended was private-sector-driven and fully funded by the private sector. Her Honour the Vice-President was an invited guest.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chitotela: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised by the hon. Member for Pambashe.

Mr Chilangwa: No, it is ‘Kawambwa’.

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, I understand the rule about raising points of order contemporaneously. However, as you saw, I indicated, but the hon. Minister was on the Floor.

Sir, my point of order is in relation to the violation of Standing Order No. 136, and it is on the Clerks-at-the-Table, who are supposed to assist the Chair in providing a conducive environment in the House.

Sir, the Standing Order on matters of urgent public importance, No. 136(2), clearly states as follows:

“Debate on the Motion of urgent matter of public importance –”

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, I think, I already made a ruling on that one. Let us proceed.

You can resume your seat.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, you have not heard me. Just wait –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Resume your seat.

Mr Chitotela: Thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker, Standing Order No. 136(2), (3) and (4) state that only one Motion on a matter of public importance shall be debated on a single day –

Hon. Member: Resume your seat!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, I have already ruled on that one.

Resume your seat.

Mr Chitotela: What have you ruled on?

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: I already ruled on that one.

The hon. Member for Kantanshi can ask his question.

Mr Mumba (Kantanshi): Mr Speaker, –

Mr Chitotela: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Resume your seat, hon. Member. I did not permit you.

Hon. Member for Kantanshi, you can continue.

Mr Chitotela resumed his seat.

Mr Mumba: Mr Speaker, I must remind the hon. Minister that as he was presenting the statement, he clearly elaborated the importance of the President’s visits, and that is why it is important that the trips be reported back to the House promptly. That was the purpose of my request to her Honour the Vice-President.

Sir, my interest is in the side-line meeting for the water and sanitation fund that he referred to and the number of jobs that are anticipated to be created. In the past, we have had similar investments in the water and sanitation sector. What will this fund bring to the table that will be different, considering that, as the Member of Parliament for Kantanshi, who is supposed to be a beneficiary of the water and sanitation investment through the European Bank, I am still struggling with the implementation of the project even though the funds were released? What will be different about this fund?

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to inform the House that hon. Members cannot raise points of order on staff of the National Assembly.

I thank you.

Mr Kakubo: Mr Speaker, the water situation is one of the biggest socio-economic challenges that we face in this country. Therefore, this Government will continue to source funds outside the Budget for to dealing with this challenge, especially in the rural areas.

Sir, the funding that has been sourced by the Government is very important for supporting our Budget, and it is the intention of this Government to tap into that the fund, which is readily available. We are well placed to ensure that the funds come into the country and the problems that are identified are addressed through the fund.

Mr Speaker, I encourage my hon. Colleague to not despair because this is a different Government. I identify with the historical challenges that he refers to, but I encourage him to go straight to the Ministry of Water Development and Sanitation to ensure that his constituents also benefit from this fund. I emphasise that this is a different Government and that we endeavour to do things differently. We commit ourselves to utilising this fund properly in the country.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Anakoka (Luena): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister –

Mr Chitotela: On a point of procedure, Mr Speaker.

Mr Anakoka: Ino kayi?

Hon. Government Member: Continue.

Mr Anakoka: Mr Speaker, it is, indeed, a breath of fresh air to see that for the first time in ten years, the country has a clear Foreign Policy.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Anakoka: Mr Speaker, the record the hon. Minister just outlined sounded like it is for a period of ten years, not ten months.

Mr Kambita: Correct!

Mr Anakoka: For the first time, we are now getting clips of the salient issues the Head of State addresses when he travels abroad, rather than of a dancing Head of State.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Anakoka: Sir, one of the sectors to benefit from the mid-year summit is tourism. However, people wishing to visit the country during this period are asking questions about the Coronavirus Diseases 2019 (COVID-19) situation. One of the indicators of how the situation is either under, or out of, control is the extent to whether or not it is mandatory to wear face masks in public places, especially given the fact that the hon. Minister of Tourism is the Deputy Chairperson of the inter-ministerial committee. How soon is the mandatory wearing of face masks going to be addressed in his committee so that we can have more visitors during the up-coming summit in order to market our country to the maximum? I saw the hon. Minister of Health here earlier.

Mr Kakubo: Mr Speaker, I think, this is another very important question. However, I want to correct the hon. Member by saying that the hon. Minister of Health is not the Deputy Chairperson of the inter-ministerial committee that is working on preparations for the summit. The Deputy Chairperson is actually the hon. Minister of Tourism. However, because of the importance of the question, we, as the Government, will respond by saying that the mandatory wearing of face masks will only be reconsidered once we move our vaccination levels from where we are, at around 30 per cent, to about 70 per cent. Right now, the country is still vulnerable, and we cannot drop our guard.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Thank you very much, hon. Minister, for that good answer.

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Mr Speaker, I paid attention to the statement by the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation, and one of the things that he referred to is the aspect of renewed confidence. I am aware that the hosting of the event that will take place this week was brokered for Zambia some months ago, even before Zambians elected the new Government into office. I am also aware that the commitment by the Chinese Government to support Zambia in hosting the event was secured many years ago. So, I want to know from the hon. Minister why he has deliberately avoided acknowledging the role that the previous Government played in the successful hosting of this event.

Mr Kakubo: Mr Speaker, the issues that the hon. Member raises speak to the long friendship that we have had with the Chinese Government, first of all. China has been supporting this country for many years, and there are many aspects of Zambia’s stature that identify with the People’s Republic of China, such as the Tanzania-Zambia Railway (TAZARA) line and the hospital that is being built here, in Lusaka, the King Salman Bin Abdulaziz Specialised Hospital. So, if we must applaud each successive Government for the relationship we have had with China, I think, it will not be in the best interest of the statement that I gave this afternoon because the statement that was requested of us was to highlight the level of preparedness for the summit and the benefits that have accrued from the President’s trips.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Lusambo (Kabushi): Mr Speaker, there is information to the effect that some of the Heads of State who were scheduled to come to this important African Union (AU) meeting have withdrawn because there is no confidence in the current Government, especially when –

Interruptions

Mr Kambita: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kambita: Mr Speaker, the rules of the House are very clear, and I rise on Standing Order No. 65, which requires that hon. Members be factual in whatever they present on the Floor of this House. Is the hon. Member for Kabushi, the former bulldozer and bootlicker, ...

Laughter

Mr Kambita: ... in order to stand tall on the Floor of this House, and mislead the nation and everyone –

Interruptions

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Lusambo: No, no, no!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, I think, withdraw the word “bootlicker”.

Mr Lusambo: Mr Speaker, before he withdraws that word –

Interruptions

Mr Lusambo: Imwe ba kolokombwa!

Mr Kambita: Mr Speaker, I withdraw the words I used to spice up the point of order.

Sir, on a serious note, I withdraw the word “bootlicker”. However, the point of order I am raising is –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: I think, withdraw the words “former bulldozer and bootlicker”.

Mr Kambita: I withdraw both words, Mr Speaker.

Sir, the point of order I am trying to raise here is on the substance of the insinuations that the hon. Member seems to be making on the Floor of this House about people having withdrawn because of our failures, which are just in his imagination, without tangible evidence that he can lay on the Table.

I need your serious ruling, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I advise that as we make submissions, we be factual or say things that we can easily substantiate with facts. We should avoid making statements that are unfounded.

Mr Lubozha: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Chilangwa: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Chilangwa: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order on the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: What rule has been breached?

Mr Chilangwa: Mr Speaker, yes, I will do that in a short while.

Sir, Standing Order No. 65 has been breached by the hon. Minister. The reason is that when we are in this House, the nation is listening and people are watching, even as I speak.

Mr Speaker, when an issue is on the Floor of this House after an hon. Minister has issued a ministerial statement, it must be debated for thirty minutes. We are in a serious programme of the African Union (AU) as I speak. So, how can that hon. Minister combine two important issues about the AU and foreign trips in one statement, which does not give the House and the public enough time to interrogate the issues involved? Is this hon. Minister in order? Is he serious or is he taking the two issues like the issue of the calendars? Is he in order to sit here and not deal with the matter? The two issues should have been addressed in two serious statements, not one. Two serious statements should have been issued on the Floor of this House.

Mr Speaker, is this hon. Minister in order to trivialise the matter of foreign affairs in the fashion that he is doing?

I seek your serious ruling, Sir.

Interruptions

Mr Kambita: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Lubozha: On a point of order, Sir.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

I have not yet ruled on the last point of order.

The hon. Minister is in order to have issued a very detailed ministerial statement.

Interruptions

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: As we all know, the Government decides how Government business is communicated to its people at any particular time.

Hon. Member, you can continue.

Mr Lubozha: Thank you, Sir.

Mr Lusambo: It is me to continue.

Mr Lubozha: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Lubozha: Mr Speaker, I rise on a point of order pursuant to Standing Order No. 66, which is on unparliamentary language.

Sir, is the hon. Member for Kabushi, a very senior Member of this House, in order to call all of us here, including the Vice- President, balokombwa? Is he in order to use that language?

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: If the hon. Member said that, he is out of order, and he should withdraw with an apology.

Stand up and withdraw with an apology, hon. Member.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, if you said that, stand up and apologise because there is a way that we can use to retrieve that information even if you say that you have not. We will instruct people to review the footage and check whether you said that and, if you really did, appropriate measures will be taken. So, if you said that, withdraw and replace it with an appropriate word.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lusambo: Tefyondandile ine.

Mr Speaker, I withdraw the word “bakolokombwa”. I withdraw it.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: You can continue.

Mr Lusambo: Mr Speaker, the reason the hon. Minister issued this ministerial statement is to enable us to seek clarifications from him, and my question to him was based on the fact that there is information out there to the effect that five of the Heads of State who are supposed to attend the AU Mid-Year Summit here, in Zambia, have withdrawn and that the reason they have withdrawn is that the Government is allowing the United States Africa Command (AFRICOM) to come to Africa.

Interruptions

Mr Lusambo: Apart from that, those in the hotel industry have complained of several bookings being cancelled, according to the Zambia Daily Mail newspaper. We just want to know from the hon. Minister what the position of the Government this regarding the information, which is coming from outside.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: One thing about which I have to caution you on, as an hon. Member, is that statements that border on national security, such as your allegation about the withdrawal of five Heads of State because of the United States Africa Command (AFRICOM), should not be made if they are unfounded.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

When talking about other Heads of State, your statements have to be profound and have merit to avoid putting the country in a compromised position.

Nevertheless, hon. Minister, you can respond to the last part of his question.

Mr Kakubo: Mr Speaker, I apprise the House that invitations for summits of this nature are not made by the Zambian Government; they are made by the AU, and all the Heads of State and Government who are coming to our country are doing so at the invitation of the AU. That said, let me also mention that the Heads of State who have been invited have been sending confirmations of their attendance of the summit through the AU, not the Zambian Government. So, if the hon. Member has information as to why some Heads of State, if any, have withdrawn, as the Government, we are yet to be given that information by the AU. Suffice it for me to say that the indications we have are that the Heads of State and Government who have been invited are coming to Lusaka.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

REVIEW OF 2021/2022 FOOD RESERVE AGENCY FLOOR PRICES

The Minister of Agriculture (Mr Mtolo): Mr Speaker, it is a great honour and privilege to be accorded this opportunity to issue a ministerial statement on the review of the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) floor prices for the 2021/2022 Crop Marketing Season.

Sir, as you may be aware, the FRA announced the prices at which it would buy maize, soya beans and rice from small-scale farmers during this crop marketing season as follows:

Crop Price

White maize K3.20 per kg, K160 per 50 kg

Soya beans K11 per kg, K550 per 50 kg

Paddy Rice K5 per kg, K200 per 40 kg

Mr Speaker, the Government has since taken into consideration the concerns expressed by stakeholders across the country on these prices, and the FRA has reviewed the prices, as earlier announced, taking into consideration the current market dynamics, especially supply and demand, as follows:

Crop Price

Non-Genetically Modified (GM) White Maize K160 to K180 per K50 kg or K3,600 per metric tonne

Soya beans K11 per kg or K550 per 50 kg

Paddy Rice K5 per kg or K200 per 40 kg

Sir, I urge our hardworking farmers to take note of our prices as they dispose of their produce on the market. I further inform the House that the FRA will maintain the 1,255 satellite depots across the country. I will give the numbers of depots per province and lay on the Table the detailed district by district and province by province tabulation of depots. The depots are distributed as follows:

Province No. of Depots

Central 118

Copperbelt 77

Eastern 179

Luapula 134

Lusaka 93

Muchinga 139

Northern 196

North-Western 117

Southern 148

Western 54

Total 1,255

Mr Speaker, the number of depots is exactly as it was last season.

In conclusion, Mr Speaker, I inform the nation that the FRA is going to commence crop purchases, all things being equal, this weekend, most likely on Saturday, 16^th July, 2022.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mtolo laid the document on the Table.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister of Agriculture, thank you so much for that very elaborate ministerial statement.

Laughter

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, you are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement issued by the hon. Minister of Agriculture.

Mr Mutelo (Mitete): Mr Speaker, I am very thankful that the New Dawn Government is a listening Government. It is the joy of every Zambian that the Government has done this for our farmers. However, on the satellite depots, the hon. Minister has mentioned over 100 for some provinces, but only fifty-four for the Western Province. Meanwhile, we produce rice, maize and cassava. Why does the Western Province have only fifty-four satellite depots?

Mr Mtolo: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for his kind words.

Sir, I indicate to the hon. Member for Mitete that, as I stated, we maintained the number of satellite depots as it was last season. If he feels very strongly that the satellite depots are not sufficient, he is free to visit us so that we look at the numbers and invite the FRA to review them.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Member: A listening Government.

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Mr Speaker, I will speak on behalf of the people of Chama South.

Sir, in Chama District, the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) is selling a 50 kg of white maize at K200 to the vulnerable people there to ease the hunger situation. I am sure, you are aware that we struggle with human/animal conflict. The hon. Minister’s promise was that he was going to increase the price to K250. Is he trying to make a profit off the poor people of Chama who have no money to buy the maize? From K160, the Government has only increased the price by K20 to K180 while selling the bought maize to poor people at K200. Has the Government U-turned on its promise that a 50 kg bag of maize would cost K250, which is very reasonable, looking at the price of fertilizer and the fact that not everyone who produces maize is a beneficiary of the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP). Is the hon. Minister considering increasing the price to K250 before the Government starts buying?

Mr Mtolo: Mr Speaker, from the outset, let me make it very clear that I do not remember coming to the House and promising that we would buy maize at K250 per 50 kg bag. That notwithstanding, the hon. Member’s statement that we, as the Government, through FRA, are selling maize at K200 that is absolutely correct because the maize we are selling was bought last year and, over time, has accrued storage and related costs like fumigation costs. We would not keep maize and sell it at that price.

Finally, Sir, for the hon. Members’ benefit, we are going to be very careful about the price at which we buy and sell maize because of the implications on the cost of mealie-meal. If we are not careful with that, we can create trouble for ourselves in the next few months.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Thank you, hon. Minister, for that good answer.

Laughter

Mr Mung’andu: Point of order, Mr Speaker.

Laughter

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, thank you for allowing me to pose a question.

Sir, I am happy today. When we were pushing Her Honour the Vice-President and the hon. Minister of Agriculture on behalf of the farmers, our colleagues there (pointing to the Ruling Party Bench) said, “Question!” Today, because of the response from the hon. Minister, they are saying, “Hear, hear!” This is what we are here for. We were also speaking for them, knowing how many challenges they had with farmers in their constituencies.

Mr Speaker, we appreciate the acknowledgement of the concerns of our farmers. We would have loved to get something better, of course, knowing the challenges our farmers will endure in taking their maize to the depots and the price of fertilizer, which is now going to be slightly higher. My question to the hon. Minister is: How long will it take the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) to pay the farmers after collecting their maize? Will it be prompt or will it still take time like we saw last year?

Mr Mtolo: Mr Speaker, I thank the Deputy Leader of the Opposition for this question and his kind words.

Sir, I wish, through this House, to let the nation know that our plan; the plan for the Government, is to pay farmers as promptly as possible. We wish to not delay the payments to farmers. Therefore, my very clear answer is that we are going to pay farmers as quickly as possible, possibly on delivery, but subject to the different localities and banking structures available.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya): Mr Speaker, allow me to thank the hon. Minister of Agriculture and the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) for the upward adjustment of the maize price by K20.

Sir, on 16^th June, 2022, the FRA Board Chairperson, in justifying the K160 price for a 50kg bag of maize, informed the nation that the FRA had undertaken a crop price scenario analysis and that there had been wide consultations with stakeholders in the agricultural value chain. I want to know from the hon. Minister whether the adjustment by K20 that we have seen is reactive or the FRA undertook another analysis. Further, will the Government and the FRA not give in to more pressure so that we see them push the price up to K200 or K250?

Mr Mtolo: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Kanchibiya for this question. Like I indicated, we shall forever be sensitive to what the price of maize translates into in terms of the cost of a bag of mealie meal. This is crucial. Definitely, the FRA should have looked at the market dynamics before it came up with the price of K160, but there were concerns countrywide on the price. So, I think, it has reacted to that, but also looked at the current dynamics, as I indicated in my statement. So, it is not a question of merely reacting to the market by increasing the price, as there is a limit to how far one can go, which is determined by what the price will translate into in terms of the cost of mealie meal.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Menyani Zulu (Nyimba): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Agriculture will understand that where some of us come from, the only industry there is agriculture. He will also agree with me that a good number of our people, because of the poor pricing of maize, have decided to go into soya beans farming. Further, we all agree that the entire continent of Africa or, should I say, mainly the Southern part of Africa, is now getting a good tonnage of the cash crop, soya beans, from Zambia. My question is: Why has the hon. Minister not looked at the price for soya beans just as he has respected the price of maize? I ask this question because farmers countrywide are complaining about the price of soya beans in the sense that the inputs into soya beans farming are very expensive, unlike those of maize farming. We are very thankful for the addition of K20 per bag on maize, but why does the hon. Minister not look at the price of soya beans, too?

Mr Mtolo: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member of Parliament for Nyimba for bringing up this issue. In fact, I was expecting it from the Floor.

Mr Speaker, the reason we put the price of soya beans at K11 per kilogramme or K550 per 50 kg bag was to encourage the production of the crop, as the price is absolutely competitive. In fact, very few buyers are buying at that rate. So, I have liked the question so much because, through the hon. Member and your House, Zambian farmers who produce soya beans will be informed, and they should try as much as possible to not sell their crop at prices below K11 per kilogramme. As I speak, there are areas where farmers have been selling soya beans at prices as low as K4 per kilogramme, which was creating a problem, and we are pushing the FRA to get on the market by next weekend so that farmers can have the good option of selling to the agency at that price.

Mr Speaker, I assure you that as your representative to the farming community in this country, I have taken a very clear and close look, and I know that K11 per kilogramme is the best price that can be offered in the country.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mumba: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the statement and for the price increase. I think, the price has given some of us who have invested in maize production this year some kind of an advantage. However, I have a problem with the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) because it does not respond to the cost of mealie meal after all this expenditure. What I want to know from the hon. Minister is: Since the price has now become attractive and the people we are buying maize from are vulnerable farmers who come back to cry about the cost of a bag of mealie-meal, is the ministry considering making sure that small-scale farmers do not sell all their maize, but remain with enough for them to feed themselves, as a way of mitigating the cost of mealie-meal?

Mr Mtolo: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Kantanshi, who always has very solid questions.

Mr Speaker, as much as the Ministry of Agriculture does sensitise the farming community to not sell everything, it remains our responsibility, as hon. Members of Parliament, to inform our farming communities to not sell everything. I, therefore, reverse the process that the hon. Member has come up with back to the House. We should take it as our responsibility, as hon. Members of Parliament, to tell the farmers to keep some of the produce for their consumption.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Ngowani (Mpongwe): Mr Speaker, is the upward adjustment of the price by the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) going to affect the tonnage that is targeted to be bought this year?

Mr Mtolo: Mr Speaker, I will be very quick on this one.

Sir, no, it will not. The target for the FRA will be maintained.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chewe (Lubansenshi): Mr Speaker, my question is simple. The good people of Luwingu and Lubansenshi are anxious to hear about when the Government will start buying maize.

Mr Mtolo: Mr Speaker, I indicated that we will start buying at the weekend. So, I give confidence to the hon. Member that we are ready and that we will get started as soon as possible.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Nyirenda (Lundazi): Mr Speaker, I appreciate the hon. Minister of Agriculture for the increase in the price of maize, which is good for our poor people in rural constituencies. However, I want to know from him whether the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) is really ready to buy maize and does it have the maize grain bags or are we going to experience what we experienced last year?

Mr Mtolo: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member of Parliament for Lundazi for appreciating what the Government is doing.

Mr Speaker, before coming to speak on this very serious issue, I consulted and spoke to the Chief Executive Officer (CEO) of the FRA and, going by what he told me, we are ready to start buying. So, I think that the agency has all the requisites to get going. The money should have been sent to the banks and grain bags to the depots. I think, the agency has also made sure that it has storage space. If that will not be the case, we are going to work closely with it to make sure that the right things are done. That is what we are there for.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Michelo (Bweengwa): Mr Speaker, my question has been overtaken.

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Mr Speaker, rice production has been very low in Zambia and this country is facing a huge deficit of the crop. Now, looking at the price of the crop, I think, the people of Chama are concerned because that is the main crop they grow. Is the Government not thinking of increasing the price so that we can motivate the farmers in Chama and other areas to increase production?

Mr Mtolo: Mr Speaker, let me correct Hon. Mtayachalo, the Member for Chama North, who indicated that rice production is very low. You may wish to note that, actually, though we are not yet self-sufficient in rice, production in the country has been increasing. We are now at well over 60,000 metric tonnes, whereas consumption is about 75,000 metric tonnes. So, there has been a progressive increase, which we are encouraging. For example, we are implementing a programme through Japan International Co-operation Agency (JICA) in which we are trying very hard to promote the production of rice, including in Chama.

Sir, if the hon. Member thinks that the price, I encourage him to come to the office so that we can sit with him and show him the pricing, which is actually competitive, not poor.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mapani (Namwala): Mr Speaker, may I know from the hon. Minister whether there is any intention, in the next season, to increase the number of satellite depots, looking at the geography of the set points that the hon. Minister has indicated will be maintained?

Mr Mtolo: Mr Speaker, I assure the hon. Member that just like we have shown with the increase in the price on maize, this Government pays serious attention to agriculture. So, we will look at and review anything that is an impediment to the agricultural process. If satellite depots are a problem, I will be very happy to get from the hon. Members the other areas where they think we need satellite depots, taking into consideration the fact that each satellite depot is an added cost to the agency.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Twasa (Kasenengwa): Mr Speaker, how many metric tonnes is the hon. Minister planning to buy for each of the three crops that he has mentioned?

Mr Mtolo: Mr Speaker, I presented a document that shows how many tonnes we will buy of each crop. I do not remember the figures, but I will give the hon. Member the information before the House adjourns. I just need to make a telephone call, so that I do not mislead the nation by guessing.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: You can see the hon. Minister during the health break, hon. Member for Kasenengwa.

Mr Nyambose (Chasefu): Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the statement that he has issued. I also echo others who have commended the Government for increasing the price from K160 to K180. This is very encouraging.

Sir, I was in the constituency recently, and I commend the Government for the price it has set for soya beans. Currently, in Chasefu, farmers are selling their crop at K5 and K6 per kilogramme. With the announcement that the buying process will start next week, we encourage the farmers to sell at a very good price.

Mr Speaker, I am also encouraged that grain bags will be made readily available.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nyambose: Last year, Chasefu, just like other constituencies, was acutely affected by the shortage of grain bags. So, we commend the hon. Minister on this development. However, the constituency has no Agricultural Marketing Officer or Food Reserve Agency (FRA) officer. Despite having been created in 2018, it is being serviced by an officer from Lundazi like Lumezi. When is the hon. Minister giving us an officer to be domiciled in Chasefu so that the shortage of grain bags and other challenges are resolved?

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: This question is out of context, but we will still allow the hon. Minister to respond because it concerns the good people of Lumezi.

Hon. Minister, the hon. Member is curious about when an officer will go to Lumezi.

Mr Mtolo: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for his passion. He is helping us a lot.

Sir, as you indicated, this question is outside the subject of my ministerial statement. Allow me to work with the hon. Member for Chasefu to solve that serious problem in Chasefu outside the current debate.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Mwanza (Kaumbwe): Mr Speaker, when we traverse our constituencies, it is clear that the crop yield for this year is very poor and that hunger is looming. However, the hon. Minster has assured the nation that we are safe because of the carryover stock from last year. I would appreciate it if we took stock of the need to give the people the maize that they will need.

Sir, when people have very few bags of maize to sell, there is a tendency to hoard their maize and sell it in December or later in the year, because there are many briefcase buyers. Is the Government considering a price adjustment index, just like we do in fuel pricing, so that when we want to buy the maize in December, we will have the necessary amount of money to buy a bag?

Mr Mtolo: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Kaumbwe, the engineering doctor.

Sir, first of all, and this is very serious, there is no hunger in Zambia because we have sufficient stocks in reserve for our consumption. I think, it is important for the nation to be given this comfort. Secondly, yes, we have had reduced yield of 2.7 million tonnes this year, but that is still sufficient. So, I assure you that your agency is going to keep sufficient food for people to access. We do not plan for failure; we are planning for success and to keep Zambia food secure.

Sir, on the issue of price indexing, as much as it sounds good, we cannot deal with food commodities in that manner. I have said it over three times that our maize price will take care of the mealie meal price. Otherwise, we would be planning for civil disobedience, which we will not allow.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

_______

MOTIONS

RESTRICT THE ISSUANCE OF MINING RIGHTS FOR PRECIOUS MINERALS TO ZAMBIANS

Mr Kapyanga (Mpika): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that this House urges the Government to restrict the issuance of mining rights for precious minerals to Zambians.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Mr C. Mpundu (Chembe): Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

Mr Kapyanga: Mr Speaker, I thank you most sincerely for giving me this privilege to move this Private Member’s Motion urging the Government to restrict the issuance of mining rights for precious minerals to Zambians.

Sir, from the outset, I say that this Motion is anchored in the United Party for National Development (UPND) Mining Policy as contained in the party’s manifesto, which states the following in part:

“As UPND, we seek to optimise the economic value extracted from our mineral wealth to the benefit of not only current but also our future generations. We, therefore, commit to put in place a policy and plan to facilitate local ownership and increased participation of Zambian players in the industry”.

Sir, for the purpose of this Motion, I defined precious minerals as precious metals. The Mines and Minerals Development Act No. 11 of 2015 adequately defines precious metals as gold, platinum, palladium, indium, osmium, rhodium, iridium, ruthenium, selenium and silver or any other relatively scarce and highly corrosion-resistant metal of high economic value, such as diamonds and emeralds. In this regard, I put it on record that this Motion is not aimed at inhibiting foreign direct investment (FDI) in the mining sector in general, but at ensuring that the mining of precious minerals is reserved for Zambians like those in Mpika for the reasons I am going to highlight.

Sir, it goes without equivocation that our country, Zambia, is endowed with various resources that include mineral deposits in different parts of the country, –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1640 hours until 1700 hours.

_______

[MR SECOND DEPUTY PEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Kapyanga: Mr Speaker, our country, Zambia, is endowed with various natural resources, including mineral deposits in different parts of the country, vast arable land and relatively favourable weather conditions. So, I find it paradoxical that in such a resource-rich country, 54.4 per cent of people live in poverty, as reviewed by the Living Conditions Monitoring Survey Report of 2015 compiled by the Zambia Statistical Agency (ZAMSTAS). This paradox could partly be the result of the fact that our resources, particularly the minerals, are mostly owned and controlled by foreigners.

Mr Speaker, over the more than 100 years in which mining has been undertaken in this country, copper and other minerals worth billions of United States (US) Dollars have been extracted. However, there has been no development in the country that corresponds to the value of the resources that have been extracted, as observed by a former World Bank Country Manager for Zambia who, in 2016, stated that Zambia was rich in minerals, but the country had been unable to fully convert that wealth for the benefit of its people. We have not seen enough benefits in terms of jobs for the women and youths in Mpika and other parts of the country, improved infrastructure and medicines in hospitals.

Mr Speaker, the inability to accrue enough benefits from mining activities could be attributed to a number of reasons, including the externalisation of profits by mine-owners, since Section 20 of the Zambia Development Agency Act No. 11 of 2006 allows foreigners to externalise funds with no restrictions on currency conversion, and that gives foreign investors the liberty to transfer any portion of their funds as they desire, be it in terms of dividends, interest on any foreign loan, or net profit on sale or liquidation of business enterprise after the payment of revenue and taxes. Even though the Act allows for investors to externalise funds after paying the relevant taxes, we would like to see the funds deposited in the local financial system for circulation, as that is what would contribute to a stronger and more stable local currency, and lead to economic growth.

Mr Speaker, the highlighted regime in the mining sector, particularly the copper mining sub-sector, which has not benefited Zambians, has compelled me to move this Motion. By implementing the proposal in this Motion, we will ensure that mining rights for the precious minerals highlighted above are reserved exclusively for Zambians. Consequently, we will increase the benefits that will accrue to Zambians from the exploitation of the minerals, like it is in Botswana, Lesotho, Namibia and Ethiopia, among other countries. This is because a Zambian-owned mining company is more likely to be tax compliant and invest profits locally, which can ultimately benefit the local people directly through job creation and indirectly through public services provided from the taxes collected. If we do not restrict the issuance of precious minerals to Zambians, on the other hand, the situation obtaining in the copper mining sub-sector will also be experienced in the precious minerals sub-sector and, before we realise it, all our limited mineral resources will be depleted without much benefit having accrued to our people.

Mr Speaker, I acknowledge that the copper and cobalt mining sub-sector is capital intensive. Therefore, I appreciate the limitations that may be there for Zambians to participate in it. However, it is important to encourage foreign investors to partner with Zambians in running those capital-intensive mines. On the other hand, I note that the precious minerals sub-sector might not be as capital intensive. As such, it is safe to say that Zambians can utilise schemes like crowd funding to raise the necessary capital to mine precious minerals. In this regard, the Government ought to adequately empower its people in terms of acquiring mining rights so that they can extract the minerals for the benefit of our country.

Mr Speaker, I am aware that there have been attempts to increase citizens’ participation in the mining sector. Specifically, Section 29 of the Mines and Minerals Development Act restricts artisanal mining, in which an individual uses basic tools in extracting minerals, to citizens or co-operatives composed of citizens. In addition, Section 42(1) of the Act restricts gold panning to citizens and citizen-owned companies. You may wish to note that in the Mines and Minerals Development Act, gold panning is defined as:

“… the process of liberating gold from a placer deposit by gentle agitation and gravity in pan through water course or body.”

Sir, as the Mines and Mineral Development Act and the Mines and Minerals Development Policy are being reviewed, the Government has an opportunity to include provisions that will restrict the issuance of mining rights for precious minerals to Zambians.

Mr Speaker, as I conclude, I reiterate the fact that this Motion is premised on the legal provisions requiring the development of natural resources undertaken to be for the benefit of Zambians. In this regard, I urge all the hon. Members, who were elected by the people to come and represent their interest here, in this august House, to support this non-controversial Motion. The Motion is also non-partisan and very nationalistic, and all Zambians are listening to the debate on it.

Mr Speaker, with the aforesaid, I, once again, thank you for giving me the opportunity to move this Motion.

Sir, I beg to move.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: The question is that the House urges the Government to restrict the issuance of mining rights for precious minerals to Zambians. Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Mr C Mpundu: Now, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, I thank you for according me the opportunity to second this important Motion on the Floor of the House. Allow me, from the outset, to thank Hon. Francis Kapyanga, Member of Parliament for Mpika, for ably moving the Motion.

Mr Speaker, one of the agents of change is an idea. Therefore, an idea like this Motion, which can bring the needed change in the lives of our people, should not be underestimated or looked at with political lenses. As rightly stated by the mover, Zambians have not fully benefited from the mining sector since Independence in 1964. Our people’s interest in participating in mining is clearly seen in what is happening at the Black Mountain and other areas in Zambia, including my Constituency, Chembe, were people are grappling for Siderite. Therefore, the proposal to restrict the mining rights for precious minerals to Zambians is meant to ensure that our people benefit from their God-given resources.

Mr Speaker, in seconding this Motion, allow me to state that as a Member of Parliament, I feel compelled to raise this issue on behalf of many Zambians out there who aspire to run mines, but are incapacitated due to that various challenges that the mover has competently articulated.

Sir, instead of continuously labelling Zambians illegal miners, the Government should harness their interest and capacitate them with skills and resources. The Executive is urged to link small-scale miners to micro-finance institutions, provide tax rebates on operational equipment and empower local people with the necessary knowledge. When Zambians are empowered to actively participate in the mining sector, the results will be more jobs being created and livelihoods of our people in general being improved. In order to build the capacity of miners, the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development should be decentralised so that its services can be closer to the people.

Mr Speaker, as wind up my debate, allow me to restate that the Zambian Government needs to take meaningful steps to empower miners. I also urge the Government to consider this Motion and take advantage of the current regulatory reforms to protect Zambians involved in the mining of precious minerals.

Mr Speaker, with those few remarks, I beg to second.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, in case you are overlooked, you should be aware that the Whips, both from the Ruling Party and the Opposition, have availed the list of the would-be debaters. Further, I will keep alternating among the lists in picking debaters from the lists. I will also be choosing from the list that I can access online.

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Mr Speaker, allow me to begin by thanking the hon. Member of Parliament for Mpika for moving this very important Motion today, which has been seconded by the hon. Member of Parliament for Chembe.

Mr Speaker, hon. Members of the august House may be aware that there are two pieces of legislation that guide our debate today. These are the Mines and Minerals Development Act No. 11 of 2015 and the Citizens Economic Empowerment Act of 2006. The Citizens Economic Empowerment Act defines a citizen-empowered company as one that has shareholders of equity from 25 per cent to 50 per cent. It also defines a citizen-influenced company as one of shareholders with equity from 5 per cent to 25 per cent, and a citizen-owned company as one having a minimum of 50 per cent. I have referred to these three definitions because they form part of the discussion around the Mines and Minerals Development Act, and it is very clear from the definitions that the people who are covered in the Mines and Minerals Development Act are not just Zambians, as envisaged by the mover of the Motion. The mover of the Motion is referring to Zambians while the Act, which seeks to empower Zambians, unfortunately, does not define Zambians. It simply defines companies where shareholders are different.

Mr Speaker, for the benefit of the hon. Members of this august House, I will quickly go to the legal provisions that must be changed in order for the Motion to apply insofar as empowering Zambians is concerned.

Mr Speaker, firstly, Section 6 of the Mines and Minerals Development Act empowers the current hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development to appoint a mining licensing committee. That Section does not instruct the committee to give certain licences to Zambians. It simply provides for the putting in place of the committee and states that when bids are announced by the hon. Minister for people to apply for licences, any individual or company can apply. So, it does not limit the mining rights on precious minerals to Zambians. Therefore, my first proposal, in additional to what has been proposed by the mover, is that Section 6 of the Mines and Minerals Development Act be amended to support this very important Motion, which seeks to empower Zambians.

Mr Speaker, Section 13 of the Citizens Economic Empowerment Act refers to areas that should be covered under a citizen-empowered company, citizen-influenced company and citizen-owned company. Again, the Section does not talk about rights for Zambians to mine precious minerals. In this regard, it should be amended to support this Motion.

Mr Speaker, Section 17, which is a very interesting part of the Act, empowers the Zambian Government to create institutions to acquire mining rights. So, the Zambian Government can create an institution or a company and begin buying the different precious minerals that Zambians will be given exclusive rights to mine. Therefore, I also propose that further to this provision, Section 17 be expanded to provide for Zambians to engage in mining and provide supply the minerals to any Zambian Government institution.

Mr Speaker, further to the provisions that I have referred to, Section 19 of the Mines and Minerals Development Act only gives authority to the hon. Minister to run an advertisement inviting people that would want to participate in mining precious minerals or anything else; it does not specify that the licences will be given to Zambians. So, I propose that Section 19 be amended to support this Motion.

Sir, Section 29, which I believe other stakeholders may wish to refer to, does not specify that mining rights shall be given to Zambians. It simply says that artisanal mining will be reserved for co-operatives and that small-scale mining will be reserved for citizen-owned, citizen-influenced and citizen-empowered companies. It does not specify, and this is why the mover has moved this Motion. We want special mining rights to be provided for Zambians on specified minerals. So, I propose that the Section be amended to provide for what the mover has proposed.

Mr Speaker, Section 30 of the Act, again, does not specify anything. It simply says that for someone to get a licence for artisanal mining, the area for mining should be from one cadastre to a maximum of two. So, the Section has to be amended so that the vision of the mover of the Motion is ably captured.

Sir, Section 34 specifies the duration of a licence. Again, the law simply says if one got an artisanal licence, it would be valid for two years. It does not specify what one would be able to do with that licence insofar as precious minerals are governed. So, I propose that the Section actually limits the provision to those who wish to undertake mining for special minerals.

Mr Speaker, Section 42(5) refers to a gold panning certificate, and it makes very clear that what takes precedence is a mining licence. So, if someone had a gold panning certificate today and a company applied for a mining licence, the law provides that the licence would be issued instead of a the panning certificate.

What these provisions entail, as I wind up debate, Mr Speaker, is that there are provisions in the current law that are not sufficient to further the vision of the mover of the Motion. Is the law sufficient to promote the interests of our people? The mover has ably indicated what has to be achieved, but I feel that the current legal provisions are inadequate, and I hope that the people who will analyse whether this Motion should be supported or not will take time to read the provisions.

Sir, the people of Kamfinsa ably support the Motion that has been moved by the hon. Member for Mpika.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Jamba (Mwembezhi): Mr Speaker, I thank my colleague for moving a Motion which, having looked at it, I feel, he might have good intentions. However, he lacks adequate knowledge of the mining industry.

Laughter

Mr Jamba: Mr Speaker, when we talk about mining, we start with artisanal mining, and I must declare interest because I worked in the Geological Survey Department and in the Cadastre Unit for almost ten years in the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development.

Sir, some people must be taught that mining starts with artisanal mining, gets into small-scale mining and then to large-scale mining. Now, according to our laws here, in Zambia, artisanal mining is the preserve of Zambians. You will never find a foreigner owning an artisanal mine, and artisanal miners are people who would want to mine precious minerals like gold, maybe, in a large-scale prospecting licence, by getting permission to do so from the owners of the licence. You will not find anybody operating as artisanal miners except Zambians.

Mr Speaker, from artisanal mining, one goes to small-scale mining. These are people who in terms of agriculture, maybe, we can compare them to subsistence farmers, like the ones on the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP). Even at this scale, the law provides, first of all, that the owners must be Zambians, who may incorporate anybody from outside if they want to. Therefore, to me, this is like finding someone pushing a wheelbarrow towards a gate; the purpose of pushing the wheelbarrow is to make it reach the gate, then someone stands by the corner and says, ‘Can we urge this person to push the wheelbarrow’. What is the essence of that?

Mr Speaker, the laws are already there. Therefore, to move a Motion here for us to urge the Government that is not the right thing to do. If the hon. Member wants to change some Clauses in the law, as hon. Members of Parliament, we are allowed to present Bills here to do so. Maybe, the hon. Member of Parliament who seconded this Motion does not know the functions of a Member of Parliament who is a Backbencher.

Mr Kampyongo: Question!

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Jamba: A Backbencher is able to present Bills to Parliament and change a law he or she thinks is not adequate.

Mr Kampyongo: On a procedural point of order, Sir.

Mr Jamba: Therefore, Mr Speaker, to say that we need to change –

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, there is a point order.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I have been seated here, listening to the debates, starting from when the Motion was moved. I think, we have heard very interesting, detailed and well-researched debates.

Sir, I know that my dear colleague is a senior hon. Member of the House. So, he should know that there is a rule in this House about not debating ourselves, whether in a demeaning manner or otherwise. Is he in order to try to give the impression that the hon. Members who have debated this Motion do not know their role and that he should school them? Is he in order to take that route in his debate?

Sir, I seek your serious ruling because these procedures are very well known.

M Chaatila: Which Standing Order?

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, we should avoid debating ourselves, as this is against the rules of the House.

The hon. Member for Mwembezhi, who was contributing to the Private Member’s Motion, can continue.

Mr Jamba: Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Sir, for small-scale mining, one has to invest in a 10,000 ha piece of land. So, the Government was prudent, looking at our poverty levels, which are sometimes very high. So, if one got a licence for small-scale mining, one could get other people to finance the mining; one could bring investors into the land.

Sir, if those who are saying only Zambians should do mining went to the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development and checked in the cadastre, they would find that people have been getting the licences, including for small-scale mining, but later go on the streets to sell off the licences. So, this country will not actually improve. What we are saying is that in prioritising Zambians, the law is already there. The only thing that is supposed to be said is that we should implement the laws. If people want to bring in investors, they should do it so that their businesses are promoted. However, to put it in the law that only Zambians can participate, then we do not know what we are talking about.

Mr Speaker, let me emphasise the point that if the law is not sufficient for what one thinks is supposed to be done, one is supposed to present a Bill here stating what one wants to be in the law. People are moving Motions here that they say are non-controversial, but the Motions are controversial because they paint the picture that the Government is not willing to give Zambians business when the business is already for Zambians. Therefore, I see these Motions that are moved every Wednesday by our colleagues to be malicious because they make the Government to be seen as not doing anything.

Mr Speaker, small-scale and artisanal mining are already for Zambians, and we do not need to overemphasise that. We are telling Zambians to go and apply for artisanal or small-scale mining, and they are going to be given licences.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Jamba: Those who want to bring in investors at the small-scale level are free to incorporate them and work with them. As for large-scale mining, and someone gave the example of copper mining, which is a large-scale operation, one has to bring in many investors, and we are not even going to talk much about that. The bottom line here is that the insinuation that Zambians are disadvantaged is wrong. The problem is that people have not gone to the Cadastre Unit; you find someone in the bush mining without a licence, and then he says he is being chased from the site. Let Zambians go to the Cadastre Unit and apply for artisanal or small-scale mining, and they will be given a licences. That is a preserve for Zambians.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Jamba: It has nothing to do with foreigners. Therefore, I find this Motion to not be well intended, and I wish the mover could withdraw it forthwith so that it does not create the impression that we are refusing to work with Zambians.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Jamba: I, therefore, do not support the Motion, which is BID.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, what does “BID” mean?

Mr Jamba: Mr Speaker, it means ‘brought in the House dead’.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Wamunyima (Nalolo): Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Mpika, who has ably moved a non-controversial Motion. Outrightly, I want to state that I support the Motion from an objective point of view because I am Zambian.

Mr Speaker, when we look at precious mineral as defined in the law, it is misleading to say it is synonymous with to artisanal mining. What we are talking about is that, if you are a Zambian, born in Zambia, and there are resources that you can restrict, but you do not do that, it means that you own nothing. So, the time has come to end the discussion on limiting Zambians to mining at the Black Mountain. Zambians must take their fair share of what is in this country.

Sir, among the precious minerals, as defined in the Act, there is gold. However, who owns 51 per cent of Zambia Gold Company in Kasenseli? It is the Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines Investments Holdings (ZCCM-IH). The Ministry of Finance and National Planning owns 49 per cent. So, what we are saying is that there must be express protection of what Zambians can do. If we are more concerned about the perception of the people than what should develop this country, then, we must really rethink how development must be brought to this county.

Mr Speaker, we cannot have a country that just speaks about foreign direct investment (FDI). What about local direct investment (LDI)? We need that and that must be expressly provided for by the law. Some may say that people must present Bills to amend laws, but this is sufficient to demonstrate political will to the idea of Zambians having what they can own because, currently, they own nothing. People are called illegal miners in their own country; they are born in Zambia, but called illegal miners. That is unacceptable, and it is why I want to firmly support this Motion.

Sir, when you look at the list of the suggested minerals, there is gold, platinum, palladium and indium, which are high-value minerals, and this is not sinister or new. It is happening in Lesotho, Ethiopia, Kenya and Botswana. So, why should we politicise it here. This is a progressive Motion that demands that we search our conscience, as patriots, to stand on the right side of history. There is nothing to politick about here.

Ms Mulenga: He is a surveyor.

Laughter

Mr Wamunyima: What we must think about is what Zambians own, because there is a limitation to this.

Mr Kang’ombe: Tuleumfwila, surveyor.

Hon. Member: Assistant!

Mr Wamunyima: Mr Speaker, when we do this, money invested by Zambians will be spent in Zambia because Zambians bank with local banks. However, we have this perception that development should be limited to FDIs. Let us protect our own investors. No wonder, I always talk about the Ministry of Small and Medium Enterprise Development. If our colleagues do not want to create a framework that will enable value addition from the small-scale level, why is the ministry there?

Mr Kang’ombe: Why is he quiet?

Mr Wamunyima: It should be there to actualise these kinds of initiatives.

Mr Speaker, to me, as I stand here and debate, there is nothing wrong with this Motion. People can say that the law already exists, but why is it not being implemented. We have been reading the Act. I do not know whether there is one Act on your right and another one here, on your left. When you look at Section 29 of the Mines and Minerals Development Act, 2015, which talks about artisanal mining, there is nothing about Zambians there.

Mr Kangombe: There is nothing!

Mr Wamunyima: So, I do not know whether we can trivialise this just because it is coming from the left. The reason there is democracy is so that the Government can get progressive ideas from the left.

Mr Kang’ombe: Walikwata amano iwe.

Hon. Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Munir Zulu: Ema last born aba!

Mr Wamunyima: That is why the institution of democracy demands a Parliament; there is no Government on earth that will ever have the monopoly of wisdom. So, if a progressive Motion is moved by the left, it should be supported, and the Government will lose nothing because the people of Zambia, at the end of the day, will ask what the issue is. Currently, when we talk about mining, all we talk about is attracting investment, but the issue of ownership must be part of the discussion. An investment you do not own is not your investment and it will never be. So, where Zambians can afford, and where it can be specified, let us do it, because Zambians deserve it. These minerals are here, where Zambians are born.

Hon. Member: God-given.

Mr Wamunyima: They are God-given.

Mr Speaker, I support this Motion, and we need to provide a sufficient legal framework to support it. The Act, of course, needs to be repealed, as it is archaic, and the hon. Member for Kamfinsa was right in saying that this Act does not sufficiently provide for how we can protect Zambians. Surely, if we limit the discussion on Zambian mining to the Black Mountain, are we serious as a country? We should start talking of actual copper mining and, in turn, move on to proper value addition. That is the path we should take and the trajectory we should pursue. We can politick all we want, give all the brilliant speeches we want and we make all the rhetoric we want, but the fact of the matter is that we have a sacred responsibility to ensure that Zambians born in Zambia have a fair share of mining rights. So, this Motion is not asking for too much; it is about precious metals, and those who do not know what precious metals are can find the definition in the Act. This Motion is not about copper; it is limited to precious metals.

Mr Speaker, there is nothing difficult here from my side. With all the energy and all the research that can be done, I support this Motion, and I hope that the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development seated there, as he comes to debate, will be able to understand that this Motion is non-controversial.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Munir Zulu (Lumezi): Thank you kindly, Mr Speaker, for giving the people of Lumezi an opportunity to support this very progressive and non-controversial Motion.

Mr Speaker, I see no reason Zambians should be treated as second-class citizens in their own country. Just last week, a resident of Lumezi was assassinated by a Chinese citizen, but that has not made news. Had it been a Zambian who shot a non-Zambian, it would have been different. You get silence from those in charge of the mines or the Executive because we have treated our own as second-class citizens in this country.

Mr Speaker, our National Anthem says, “Stand and sing of Zambia, proud and free”, but where is the pride? When will Zambia produce the Aliko Dangotes of this world? When will Zambia produce more of the James Ndambos of this world?

Laughter

Mr Munir Zulu: Mr Speaker, it seems we celebrate poverty and doubt our capacity to do great things as a people. Our ancestors could not think beyond Independence, and we want to repeat their mistake. It is sad that a Zambian’s investment is called proceeds of crime while a non-Zambian’s is called FDI.

Hon. Member: Investor confidence.

Mr Munir Zulu: Mr Speaker, our generation is hungry for success; we are not hungry for poverty because we come from poverty.

Sir, in our civilised state today, fifty-four years after Independence, why should we still be celebrating poverty while looking for investors in Europe who dictate even at how much we sell our copper? Where is the pride of Zambia? Yet we are here, saying that this is a ‘brought-in-dead’(BID) Motion?

Laughter

Mr Munir Zulu: A surveyor who does not understand what an investment is. We cannot continue on that trajectory.

Mr Jamba: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Opposition Member: Iwe Jamba nkala chabe!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A point of order has been raised.

Mr Jamba: Mr Speaker, I am seated here, …

Mr Michelo: As a surveyor.

Mr Jamba: … as a surveyor, …

Laughter

Mr Jamba: ... a well-learned surveyor and graduate of the Copperbelt University (CBU) who also worked for the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development, but I am being dragged into the debate of someone whom I do not know anything about. Surely, is the hon. Member in order to drag me into whatever he is talking about, as he is not even debating –

Mr Michelo: As a journalist.

Mr Jamba: As a journalist, surely?

Sir, is that journalist in order to drag me into his debate?

Laughter

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: I think, the hon. Member has tried to put you in the picture on a lighter note.

The hon. Member can continue.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munir Zulu: Mr Speaker, thank you kindly for permitting the good people of Lumezi to continue on a very positive note with their submissions.

Sir, one wonders why when the issuance of licences was suspended at the Cadastre Unit, it was mostly Zambians who were affected while non-Zambians continued to be issued with licences. I can assure you that if we cultivate Zambian mine owners, it is Zambian citizens who will be giving Ministers calendars.

Laughter

Mr Munir Zulu: Mr Speaker, there is more prestige in a Zambian rewarding Ministers who serve them twenty-four hours –

Mr Mulenga: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mulenga: Mr Speaker, I rise on a point of order on the current debater.

Sir, the Cadastre Unit is not selectively issuing any licences during the suspension, as all licenses have been suspended. Is the hon. Member in order to say that the unit is selectively issuing licences when in fact, no one is getting any licences yet?

Hon. Opposition Member: Standing Order?

Mr Mulenga: I am raising this point of order pursuant to Standing Order No. 65.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Lumezi is out of order to issue statements that he cannot substantiate. I remember that the Government gave its position, and it was in this House that the Government suspended the issuance of licences, I think, it was early this year, and the reason given was that an investigation was supposed to be conducted because there had been corrupt practices. I remember the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development indicating that an individual had been issued fifty mining licences. So, the hon. Member for Lumezi is out of order.

Mr Munir Zulu: Mr Speaker, the intention of the mover of this Motion is to genuinely empower Zambian citizens. We cannot be a country that has to labour to identify a success story among its citizens.

I do know that we should not to debate ourselves, Mr Speaker, but many of us have declared our assets, and that is in the news.

Sir, Zambians have the capacity to run mines, and where the inferiority complex is originating from remains unknown to some of us. We say we are creating an enabling environment for investment. Why, then, is it that we cannot create an enabling environment for Zambians to run the mines, which is the intention of this Motion? We cannot be perpetual beggars to the west. This culture should have died with the people who fought for our Independence because this is generation is fighting for economic emancipation. We cannot say that we are going to look for investors in Europe, yet the money that the Europeans are using to feed us comes from minerals that are in Africa, Zambia in particular. This we must discourage at all costs.

Mr Speaker, in supporting this Motion, we must also know that we have done wrong things for so long as a country. If the Patriotic Front (PF) and Movement for Multi-party Development (MMD) Governments supported foreign interests, the United Party for National Development (UPND) should do the right thing because it has the mandate to propagate a culture of putting Zambia first. It should not adopt the wrong things that its predecessors did.

Sir, with those few remarks, I support this non-controversial and progressive Motion.

I thank you, Sir.

The Minister of Commerce Trade and Industry (Mr Mulenga): Mr Speaker, I should take cognisance of, and appreciate, the mover of the Motion, the hon. Member of Parliament for Mpika, for moving the Motion urging us to make the mining of semi-precious minerals a preserve of Zambian citizens. This is a good Motion, and it has been well and ably debated by hon. Members from both the left and the right.

Sir, in the interest of making sure that Zambians fully benefit from their God-given resources, the New Dawn Government is committed to making sure that Zambians are the first to be given access to the resources that are theirs. Beyond semi-precious minerals, His Excellency the President has gone further to include the timber industry. However, that is a debate for another day because licences are now a preserve of Zambians, as opposed to how it was in the past, when he majority of holders of timber licences were foreign nationals.

Mr Speaker, Zambians must benefit fully from the minerals that have been talked about, and my ministry, the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry, which is responsible for enforcing legislation on separation schemes for Zambians, appreciates the Motion that has been moved today. However, like it has been said by –

Mr Munir Zulu: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Sit down!

Mr Mulenga: Like it has been ably put by the hon. Member for Kamfinsa, we need to put in place legislation that supports the Motion so that should the Motion be adopted, the move will support the people fully.

Sir, this is good Motion, and Zambians must benefit from it, but its timing does not make conditions favourable for its adoption. Therefore, while we work on formulating policies and legislation, which has been ably proposed by other debaters, our Government is working on ensuring that Zambians go beyond artisanal mining to owning mines themselves as a preserve of theirs from God. However, I should appreciate what the hon. Member there (indicating Hon. Jamba), my fellow surveyor, said, which is that artisanal licences are a preserve of Zambians. This is matter is about patriotism, not politics.

Mr Speaker, we can cancel all the licences owned by foreign nationals; it is not a bad thing. However, we are country that has not yet built the capacity of its people to run the mines on their own. What we want to migrate to is our miners mining conventionally; they should start mechanising their mining activities so that they increase production, revenue collection, generation of wealth and even their contribution to the coffers of this country. To do that, the Government, in the interim, is calling for joint ventures and partnerships between the locals and the foreign investors we can attract while we build the capacity of our people through joint ventures and partnerships in which there will be revenue collection, revenue sharing and transfer of skills from the foreign nationals, who are well-established nationals, to our people. Thereafter, our people will be able to stand on their own feet and the time will come when we can make the sector a preserve of our people.

Mr Speaker, as much as the Motion is good, in the interim, we do not have the capacity. So, we should build capacity collectively; the Opposition and the Government working together to on how best to harmonise legislation and build the capacity of our people.

Mr Speaker, at present, while the Motion is good, its adoption cannot suffice because, again, it will only lead to our people standing in the streets and auctioning the licences like they have done in the past. We have drawn lessons from what has happened in the past. So, we need to act differently are prudently. The Motion is not political; it is apolitical, but we should be realistic even as we debate. We may say that we should give this or that to Zambians, but where is the capacity? Have we built capacity?

Mr Speaker, in the past, we have seen our youths allegedly get empowered to run buses and taxies, among many other initiatives, but all the projects failed because there was no capacity building. So, let us do things differently and build capacity. Further, let us embrace even the foreign direct investments (FDIs) we are saying we cannot keep calling for, because foreigners have the resources we do not have. We just need to not let them take it all. The New Dawn Government is responsible. So, we will partner with them and share profits with them, and that is what was not happening in the past. We will not be there only as labourers; we will be there as partners and we will share the resources and, through the sharing of resources and profits, capacity will be built.

Mr Speaker, we are concerned about the wellbeing of Zambians, and we will not call them illegal miners. That is why the prudent hon. Minister of Mines and Mineral Development suspended the issuance of licences. I must also mention that the person who was perceived to hold fifty licences is a foreign national, and he did that at the expense of Zambians. So, His Excellency the President gave the directive that a foreign national could not hold over fifty licences at the expense of Zambians whose interest we serve. So, the New Dawn Government is committed to serving the interest of the people and empowering the people using their God-given precious minerals.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

The Minister of Local Government and Rural Development (Mr Nkombo): Mr Speaker, this Motion that the hon. Member of Parliament for Mpika has moved in this House puts all of us between a stone and a hard place because, good as it might sound, I would like to encourage all of us, hon. Members of Parliament, to refer to those books that are underneath the Table from time to time to see that everything that we bring in is in line with the law that governs us. Zambia has been independent since 1964 and we have had seven Presidents and very intelligent Legislators, including members of the immediate past Government.

Mr Speaker, in raising this Motion, the hon. Member of Parliament for Mpika might have forgotten that the phrase ‘restriction to only Zambians’ is what has spoiled the Motion because it denotes discrimination. That is what it does, and I invite the hon. Member to the Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC) Act, which provides for the reservation scheme that my hon. Colleague, the Minister of Commerce and Trade and Industry is just from speaking about. There was a reason it was called a reservation scheme, and there is a fundamental difference between affirmative action, in which you give an advantage to locals, and a complete exclusion of human beings.

Mr Speaker, according to Part III, Article 23, of the Constitution, which provides for protection from discrimination on grounds of race, et cetera, subject to Clauses (4), (5) and (7) of the Constitution, no law shall make any provision that is discriminatory either of itself or in its effect. Further, Subject to Clauses (6), (7) and (8), no person shall be treated in a discriminatory manner by any person acting by virtue of any written law or in the performance of the

functions of any public office or public authority. The hon. Member can continue reading this to understand what I am talking about.

Mr Speaker, affirmative action is good, and the reason this Government cancelled most of the mining licences was simply the recognition of the fact that a group of individuals had decided to award themselves all the licences. The same thing happened in the ministry that I run, where contracts on feeder roads were a preserve of a chosen few from the Patriotic Front (PF). This should be understood in that context. When our colleagues say ‘Zambians’, are they also looking at the Zambian in Shangombo and Kashinakazhi or are they only looking at the Zambian who walks around here, brandishing PF symbols?

Mr Speaker, as we move Motions here, we must make sure that we are not in contravention of the law that governs us. In this regard, I invite the hon. Member of Parliament for Mpika to move a Motion for us to change Part III of the Constitution, which addresses the issue of discrimination and whose amendment requires a referendum; the involvement of the whole country. Positive affirmative action, on the other hand, is everywhere in the world. Under the Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC), there is sufficient legislation that provides for one to have slightly more shares if one is a Zambian; that a Zambian must, at least, own 51 per cent. Why was that couched that way? It is because we know for a fact that most of our citizens are poor.

Mr Speaker, someone here asked what value is there in giving Hon. Nkombo a licence just for him to go to Katondo Street or the London Metal Exchange and sell that licence to the one who has money. What we need to do is encourage partnerships like it happens everywhere in the world.

Sir, again, the word ‘restriction’ is what has spoiled this Motion. Had our hon. Colleagues used another phrase, such as ‘reservation order’ or ‘affirmative action’, which does not exclude other people, the Motion would have passed, and I would have been the first to say, ‘Let us go for it’. However, the moment one says ‘restrict’, it denotes the different treatment of an individual based on their, race, creed, religious affiliation and age, which is discrimination, an affront to this Constitution that I have been referring to here.

Mr Speaker, my request, and I make it respectfully, is that our colleagues search their souls. There is a Constitution here. Are we going to vote, if we shall, against the law? Why would our colleagues want to vote against our law? If necessary, we should change the law so that it is in tandem with the desires of our hearts. That is the job of Parliament. We cannot come here and move a Motion that contravenes the law. We want the Zambians to have an upper hand in everything that we do economically. However, do they have what it takes at the moment? The answer is that only a chosen few; those who have money, most of which is ill-gotten.

Sir, we should be talking about how Zambians can access cheap financing in order for us to achieve all these things. The wheels of economic balance will move if we can move our interest rates from the current 23 per cent to 5 per cent or 6 per cent. Then, every Zambian will have sufficient collateral to borrow money and participate effectively in building the economy. However, we cannot exclude everyone else, and we cannot share poverty. Why should we dish out licences to someone who does not even have a hoe or wheelbarrow? That would not work, and we should be doing things that will work for us.

Mr Speaker, my time is up.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kafwaya (Lunte): Mr Speaker, I thank you for allowing me to make a contribution, of course, in support of this Motion.

Sir, this Motion has been supported by some colleagues of mine, but it has also failed to win support from some of them. I take note of the fact that for those who have failed to fully support this Motion, various reasons have been given. For example, one hon. Member has declared here that the Motion’s timing is wrong, another said something about the law while someone else claimed that what my hon. Colleague is asking is already in place.

Mr Speaker, restricting mining rights for precious minerals to Zambians is what my hon. Colleague is asking for. Therefore, an environment must be created that will enable the Government to do so, and creating such an environment requires looking at the legal and policy frameworks and ensuring that they support the intention of the mover of the Motion. If the two frameworks are not supportive of the intentions of this Motion, and as everyone is aware, the Government, by which I mean the Executive, is responsible for amending laws, as it is the hon. Members in the Executive who present laws here for enactment.

Mr Speaker, it Might be awkward for an hon. Member in the Executive to come here and start pushing for Opposition Backbenchers to start amending laws that do not support Zambians. I think that my hon. Colleagues should understand that it is important for them to analyse the legal and policy frameworks to detect deficiencies in them. In the current situation, it is possible to hear people proudly say that it is better for Zambians to be given mine dumps and interpret the law in a manner that supports foreigners.

Mr Speaker, the simple question that we are asking is: Are there gemstones in this country? If you go to Mapatizya in Kalomo, you will find amethyst. If you go to Lufwanyama, you will find emeralds and, if you go to Mumbwa, you will find gold. This Motion is about restricting the exploitation of these resources to Zambians, and nobody is saying that we do it now. The Motion is about urging the Government to restrict this to Zambians. To do so, the Government must deliberately create an environment that will support such a restriction.

Mr Speaker, my colleagues are saying this is bad timing. Is it bad timing to ask the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government to start the process of restricting the exploitation of these resources to Zambians? Is it bad timing to ask the UPND Government to start considering Zambians for this activity? This is not about the way our hon. Colleagues think about artisanal mining, which is that it is already restricted. The Motion is about precious stones, not about small-scale, large-scale or artisanal mining.

Mr Speaker, for a change, the UPND Government can start to think about Zambians. For a change, the UPND Government –

Interruptions

Mr Kafwaya: Here, on this side, we are providing motivation –

Hon. Member: Question!

You failed to look after them.

Mr Kafwaya: Mr Speaker, we are providing motivation for the UPND Government to begin to look at what is important for Zambians. If my colleagues cannot see the motivation in a patriotic Member of Parliament moving this Motion, it is unfortunate for the people of Zambia.

Mr Speaker, I am aware that after the African Union (AU) Summit, the demolition of mobile money booths will continue. Now, we can create jobs for those who are losing jobs in those many booths.

Interruptions

Mr Michelo: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Let me guide.

Under debate is a Motion that has been well stated, and all our debates should be on the Motion. Now, you are going off your way by talking about telephone booths, and these are the things that bring acrimony in the House because they agitate people. So, let us just restrict ourselves to the Motion on the Floor of the House.

You can continue.

Mr Kafwaya: Mr Speaker, I used to be a Minister, but I am no longer one. It seems that a Minister can bring in issues about trees or timber and there will be no problem.

Interruptions

Mr Nkombo: You will never be a Minister again.

Mr Kafwaya: Mr Speaker, somebody is saying I will never be a Minister again. I am not looking to being a Minister again.

Mr Speaker, one colleague of mine, my other colleague moved this Motion because he lacks knowledge. I think, Hon. Kapyanga is very knowledgeable in the sense that ...

Mr Nkombo: To you!

Mr Kafwaya: ... he knows that the UPND Government has an opportunity to do good for Zambians by restricting the mining of gemstones to them. Maybe, those poor people who are –

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, the rules of the House do not allow us to debate one another in the manner the hon. Member of Parliament for Lunte is debating, especially, Hon. Kapyanga here from Mpika. He is claiming that Hon. Kapyanga is very knowledgeable when –

Interruptions

Mr Nkombo: Excuse me, I am raising a point of order.

Sir, the hon. Member for Lunte is busy praising an hon. Member of Parliament and how he is knowledgeable, but ...

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: ... this evokes very bitter memories of the same hon. Member of Parliament failing to realise that hon. Members of the United Party for National Development (UPND) were human beings and actually calling them cockroaches.

Mr Kapyanga: Mr Speaker, –

Mr Nkombo: Is he in order to claim that an hon. Member ...

Mr Kapyanga: Mr Speaker, I am being debated.

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Mr Speaker. We cannot allow this.

Mr Nkombo: ... who thinks that human beings are cockroaches –

Ms Mulenga: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kapyanga: I never –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Mpika, resume your seat.

Mr Kampyongo: On a serious procedural point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Nkombo: You cannot raise a point of order on a point of order.

Mr Michelo: You cannot raise a point of order on a point of order, Kampyongo. Sit down!

Mr Kampyongo: What is your problem?

Mr Michelo: Sit down!

Mr Kampyongo: I do not know how many Speakers we have, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Kampyongo, take your seat.

Hon. UPND Members: Sit down!

Mr Sing’ombe: A point of order on a point of order? Where?

Interruptions

Mr Nkombo: May I proceed with my point of order, Sir?

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: You can continue, hon. Minister.

Mr Nkombo: I repeat: The rules of this House do not allow us to debate one another, but the hon. Member of Parliament for Lunte is busy praising one hon. Member as being very knowledgeable when the same hon. Member being praised did not know that we, here, are human beings, and he called us cockroaches sometime in the near past.

Mr Kampyongo: This is my point of order, Mr Speaker. If we are admitting procedural points of order like that –

Mr Michelo: Kampyongo, sit down!

Mr Kampyongo: This is not permissible, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, you cannot raise a point of order on another.

Interruptions

Mr Kampyongo: Yes, but you should control the hon. Minister in the way he is debating.

Mr Michelo: Hey, can you sit down, Kampyongo. Who are you? Do not be a champion. Sit down!

Interruptions

Hon. Member: You, too.

Mr Michelo: What is your problem?

Interruptions

Mr Kapyanga: Iyo ifyakweba ati ulechitafye waima wayamba ukulalandafye ifyo ulefwaya, waunfwa? Parliament yobe ino?

Interruptions

Mr Michelo: What is your problem? Ata!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Mpika, …

Interruptions

Mr Michelo: Iwe mufana iwe

Hon. Member: Let them fight.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: … the manner in which –

You know, Hon. Kampyongo has been talking, …

Mr Michelo: Be careful, ba cockroach!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: … but the manner in which he has been speaking is honourable. The manner in which you are speaking, on the other hand, is why, last time, you said I used unparliamentary language when I said ‘marketplace’. So, let us avoid speaking in a way that attracts unnecessary attention. We can all speak in this House; that is why we are here. We are chosen to come to this House because we are able to speak and convince people. So, I think, you should speak honourably, hon. Member.

Mr Nkombo: May I finish, Sir?

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, you can continue.

Interruptions

Mr Nkombo: I am sorry about the disruption, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, my point of order is pursuant to the fact that we, hon. Members, ...

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Nkombo: … are restrained from talking about one another in this Chamber. That is a convention. We are supposed to compete with ideas.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament for Lunte described one hon. Member who once called us cockroaches as very intelligent and knowledgeable, which evoked a terrible feeling from down my memory lane when I was referred to as a cockroach by the hon. Member for Mpika, this one seated here (pointing at Mr Kapyanga).

Sir, is the hon. Member in order to drive that kind of debate, which brings individuals in this House into his debate?

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, –

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Lunte is not in order. In this House, we are not allowed to debate ourselves. So, let us restrict ourselves to the Motion and debate accordingly.

The hon. Member –

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: One most important thing is that if you indicate that you want to rise on a point of order, you should desist from speaking before I recognise you. So, to set the right precedent, the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu will resume his seat and the hon. Member for Lunte will continue with his debate.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kafwaya: Mr Speaker, there is a lot of knowledge in the Motion moved by Hon. Kapyanga.

Mr Mung’andu: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kafwaya: Mr Speaker, recently, I visited an African country where I was told by a colleague, a Member of Parliament in that country, that they used to have copper, ...

Mr Mung’andu: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kafwaya: ... but copper had finished. Similarly, copper is going to finish one day in this country. So, in this era of de facto tax holidays for copper mines, the best the Government can do is to empower its people by, like my hon. Colleague has proposed, restricting the mining of precious minerals to Zambians, not today, not now, but just to begin the process of creating an environment that will make us able to do so.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: In the interest of time, the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development should respond to the concerns raised. Then the mover of the Motion will wind up debate.

Mr Mung’andu: Mr Speaker, I have a serious point of order.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, I indicated that when you rise on a point of order, it is the discretion of the Presiding Officer to allow the point of order or not depending on the transaction of the Business of the House and other factors that are just privileged to the Presiding Officer.

Hon. Minister, you can continue.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Minister of Mines and Minerals development (Mr Kabuswe): Thank you very much, Mr Speaker, for giving us the opportunity to respond.

Sir, I put it on record that I have a statement. I know that some people may raise issues when they do not see me reading.

Mr Speaker, somebody on the Floor of the House lied or said something that was not true; that when we closed the licensing system, foreigners continued getting licences. We closed the Cadastre system because we found – I do not know which word I can use, for I will be told that the word I want to use is unparliamentary – we found a lot of rot.

Mr Mutelo: Serious irregularities.

Mr Kabuswe: We found many serious irregularities, with people having given themselves forty or fifty licences per person.

Mr Chaatila: PF!

Hon. UPND Member: Shame!

Mr Kabuswe: So, we needed to clean up the system. These are challenges we inherited from the previous regime. If people cared for Zambians, why were they giving licences only to themselves, leaving out the poor person in Shangombo?

Mr Mubika: Imagine! I am here with no licence

Mr Kabuswe: There is also somebody in Sinazongwe without a licence. So, we closed the system because the UPND Government, under the stewardship of His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Hakainde Hichilema, …

Hon. UPND Members: Commander-in-Chief!

Mr Kabuswe: … Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces, said it was elected …

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Hon. UPND Members: Ah!

Mr Kabuswe: … on the ticket of change.

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kabuswe: One of the –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Minister!

There is a point of order, but I will allow the hon. Minister to finish his statement. When you finish, –

Mr Kampyongo: The point of order has to be contemporaneous, Mr Speaker.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, you can continue.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Sefulo: Hammer, hammer!

Mr Kabuswe: The UPND was voted on the ticket of change; to come and clean the confusion in the mining licensing system because we care for Zambians.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kabuswe: We were elected to embrace all Zambians. So, somebody was being insincere in making the statement that we are busy giving foreigners licences because that is not the truth, and we are going to show why we were elected. We are going to give licences fairly because the minerals belong to Zambians.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kabuswe: If I have some wealth that I cannot extract, and somebody else has money, I can partner with that person to be able to extract the resource.

Mr Speaker, Zambian laws are adequate to support Zambians in the mining of precious minerals, copper, cobalt and gold. So, I put it very clearly that the reason we stopped licensing was to clean the system because we care about the very Zambians whom people are claiming to care about today, but did not cared about them in the past.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kabuswe: It is because we want Zambians to have access to the wealth of this country. Today, some people want to care!

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kabuswe: Sir, we do not need Motions now. What we need is action, and that is where Mr Hakainde Hichilema, His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, is steering this ship to, carrying Zambians along.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kabuswe: The laws, I repeat, are adequate, and we do not need Motions. There is artisanal mining, and the licence for it is approximately 600 ha, which is a big mine. Any Zambian, today, whether in Shangombo, Chililabombwe or Mazabuka, can access the licences, and we are going to make it even easier for them to do so, unlike what we were seeing in the past.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! Tell them!

Mr Nkandu: They want to be headmen.

Laughter

Mr Kangombe: Kwashala four minutes.

Mr Nkandu: Water, water!

Mr Mulusa: Give him water.

Mr Kabuswe drank water.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Member: Ema Mayor aba! Mayor!

Mr Kabuswe: Mr Speaker, as the New Dawn Government, we have set ourselves on the path to formalising the miners whom people were calling illegal miners. I remember, in the previous regime, people died at a certain mining site and they were called rascals and criminals.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kabuswe: This Government is formalising the artisanal miners, and all the illegalities will stop.

Sir, I just returned from Ghana and Tanzania where I had gone to learn best practices in formalisation of artisanal and small-scale miners, and our target are the people of Zambia. So, through this House, I assure the people of Zambia that His Excellency President Hakainde Hichilema and the New Dawn Government are carrying them along, and that is why we are formalising and legalising what was called illegal. We are going to them to make sure that all the activities they are engaged in are done properly. This is what a caring Government does. So, we should not move Motions here to absorb ourselves of the mess that we left behind.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Minister!

Before you go any further, the word “mess” you used is unparliamentary. Withdraw it.

Mr Kabuswe: Mr Speaker, I withdraw the word “mess” and replace it with the “cacophony” that was left by the previous regime in licensing.

Interruptions

Mr Kabuswe: Mr Speaker, through the House, I assure the people of Zambia that this Government is carrying them along. People were just not sincere with the people of Zambia. Actually, the laws are adequate to give Zambians access to licences, and that is what the New Dawn Government, under the stewardship of His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, the intelligent Mr Hakainde Hichilema, is pursuing.

Mr Speaker, with those few or many remarks, I say that this Motion is brought in dead, as espoused by my colleague, Hon. Jamba. We cannot support it because it is dead, and because, I think, we are on firm ground in terms of what we want to do for the people of Zambia in the mining sector. So, I tell our friends on the left that they should wear enough gloves because they will start clapping for this Government very soon.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I am a very concerned Member of Parliament because I do not know what you are going to place on record in terms of the Government’s policy reaction.

Mr Kabuswe showed the speech in his hands and handed it over to the House Messenger.

Mr Kampyongo: We shall demand to see whether what the hon. Minister has presented is what is in that script because it has to go on record. Further, Standing Orders No. 65 requires that the matters we debate here are factual and verifiable.

Interruptions

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I listened to the hon. Minister go ballistic in his response and make a wide range of allegations that when my Government, which he was part of as Mayor of Chililabombwe, …

Interruptions

Mr Kampyongo: … a mining town, neglected the youths, whom he knows that we started empowering. He also knows that his colleague in the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry will attest to the fact that all the gold deposits that have been discovered in places like where the hon. Minister for Lusaka Province is, were meant for the youths and poor citizens.

Sir, is the former Patriotic Front (PF) Mayor –

Interruptions

Hon. Member: Question!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

Ms Mulenga: Na HH efyo akamukana.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, mind the way you structure your words. I think, it is not even necessary to say what you have said regarding the hon. Minister.

Mr Kampyongo: He referred to us.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: You are supposed to stick to the Motion on the Floor of the House. If you want to demean each other and be personal, you do it outside this House. It is not necessary to settle scores using this Floor. That will not be allowed.

You can continue with your point of order, but restrict yourself to the topic at hand.

Mr Kampyongo: Well guided, Mr Speaker.

Sir, is the hon. Minister, who is a policy maker, in order to come here, avoid reading his policy statement and opt to go ballistic? We shall get that script and lay it on the Table. What we are dealing with are serious procedural matters. If we do not address this –

Interruptions

Hon. Member: Order!

Mr Kampyongo: Her Honour the Vice-President is the Leader of Government Business in House, and she has been here long enough to know what I am talking about.

Sir, was the hon. Minister in order to avoid his written policy script, opt to go ballistic, and ignore Standing Order No. 65 and present misrepresentations and half-truths? I was referring back to history because he referred to us, yet he was part of us as Mayor in a mining town.

I seek your serious ruling, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

The hon. Minister has his way of addressing the House. However, it is encouraged that at all times, hon. Ministers read from written scripts. That said, some hon. Ministers could be so knowledgeable about their work that they are able to speak off-the-cuff ...

Mr Munir Zulu: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: … and still articulate the Government policy in a written script. If they are well-versed in what they are talking about, it is also encouraged that they show the people of Zambia the kind of hon. Minister we have in the country.

I thank you.

Mr Munir Zulu: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Member: He left a criminal organisation.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: May the hon. Member for Mpika continue.

Mr Munir Zulu: Mr Speaker, I have a serious point of order.

Mr Kapyanga: Mr Speaker, let me begin by thanking my fellow hon. Members who have contributed to this patriotic Motion, particularly the seconder of the Motion, the hon. Member of Parliament for Chembe.

Sir, what this Motion sought was the restriction of the issuance of mining rights for precious minerals to Zambians. Our forefathers fought for Independence for us to live and be in charge of our natural resources. They did not do so for us to be puppets of Western countries and white supremacy.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hammer, hammer!

Mr Kapyanga: Mr Speaker, this Motion is about our being in charge of our resources. Currently, we are begging the International Monetary Fund (IMF) to build our economy, yet the real answer to our challenges lies in our country’s backyard. Today, we have thousands of youths wallowing in poverty, yet they have good papers, and thousands of women wallowing in poverty, yet their country is very rich, because their minerals have benefitted foreigners.

Hon. Government Member: Are you singing?

Hon. Opposition Member: Hammer, hammer!

Mr Kapyanga: Mr Speaker, Zambia would not be the first country to take this route. In Africa, there are several countries that have done so, such as those I mentioned in my earlier debate. I am also worried that being here, in your House, feels like being in the gallows because of the hecklers on your right; those people who have told themselves that as long a Motion is moved by a Member of the Patriotic Front (PF), regardless of how good it is, it must not be supported. We should not live like that. As hon. Members of Parliament, we came to this House to represent the aspirations of our people, and those people trust that we are going to change things.

Mr Chaatila: On a point of procedure, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kapyanga: The people voted for the hon. Members on your right because they wanted our colleagues to change their lives, and my Motion was merely meant to help our colleagues to answer to the aspirations of our people.

Interruptions

Mr Kapyanga: I still have time. Do not conclude.

Mr Speaker, let me also emphasise that the Motion was not, in any way, restricted to licences.

Mr Jamba: You failed! It was BID!

Mr Kapyanga: What the hon. Minister was responding to was licences

Hon. Government Member: The PF failed!

Mr Kapyanga: You cannot have a party that was voted out as a benchmark. That is actually a good way of telling Zambians that you are going to fail and that you are ready to be voted out.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapyanga: Mr Speaker, there were some misleading statements on the Floor of the House to the effect that we are discriminating when we talk about restrictions. The word ‘foreigner’ is not, in way, discriminatory because referring to the nationality of a person cannot be said to be a discriminatory remark. What we have talked about is that we should be in charge of our precious minerals.

Sir, it is high time we started an economic revolution through being in charge of our resources. We know that some people who call themselves Members of Parliament were at Neelkanth Sarovar Premiere Hotel yesterday evening, and we do not know what they were given, but they were the first to shoot down this Motion and call it brought in dead (BID) because they met foreigners last evening.

Hon. Government Members: On a point of order, Mr Speaker!

Mr Kapyanga: Mr Speaker, the Motion, …

Hon. Government Members: On a point of order, Mr Speaker!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Kapyanga: … the people of Mpika wanted this Motion to be passed to allow them to be in charge of their resources.

Hon. Government Members: On a point of order, Mr Speaker!

Interruptions

Hon. Member: Corruption!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker rose.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: I urge the House to be very orderly. You want to cause unnecessary mayhem in this House, but that will not be condoned.

Hon. Government Member: Punish him!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: There is no need for you to start talking at the top of your voices. Let us ensure that this House is orderly. Those of you who are trying to misbehave will be shown the door. I will not condone unnecessary rants in this House.

Hon. Member, continue and wind up your debate.

Mr Kapyanga: Thank you so much, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: On a point of order, Mr Speaker!

Mr Kapyanga: Mr Speaker, the people of Mpika wanted this Motion to go through so that they could be in charge of their resources, which their forefathers fought for and left them with.

Mr Mulenga: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: On a point of order, Mr Speaker!

Mr Kapyanga: Mr Speaker, as I conclude, I thank you most sincerely for the leadership that you have provided throughout this very difficult time here, in the House.

Mr Jamba: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kapyanga: Being here feels like being in the gallows because of the hecklers on your right.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mulenga: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Munir Zulu: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Many of you have indicated that you want to raise points of order. In the interest of time, your points of order are not sustained. We are moving on. Let us progress.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munir Zulu: On a point of procedure, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Let us progress. I have already ruled guided. For the sake of time and business, let us proceed.

Hon. Members called for a division.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Some hon. Members may not have their iPads, and the system failed us last time. Since we do not want to take chances, all the hon. Members who are in the Committee Rooms should come into the Chamber.

Interruptions

Hon. Members walked into the Assembly Chamber.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

I hope all the hon. Members are in their right seats.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, before we proceed, if there is anyone having challenges they should indicate so that someone comes to assist you.

Question that this House urges the Government to restrict the issuance of mining rights for precious minerals to Zambians put and the House voted.

Ayes – (44)

Noes – (67)

Abstention – (Nil)

Question accordingly negatived.

_______

REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE, LANDS AND NATURAL RESOURCES

Mr Jamba: Mr Speaker, I beg to move that this House do adopt the Report of the Committee on Agriculture, Lands and Natural Resources on the Report of the Auditor-General on Government Measures to Address the Impact of Climate Change on Food Security in Zambia: A Focus on Main Crops, for the First Session of the Thirteenth National Assembly, laid on the Table of the House on Monday, 11^th July, 2022.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Is the Motion seconded.

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

Mr Jamba: Mr Speaker, pursuant to its terms of reference, as set out in Standing Order No. 197(a), the Committee considered the Report of the Auditor-General on Government Measures to Address the Impact of Climate Change on Food Security.

Mr Speaker, in considering the audit report, the Committee invited various stakeholders to present both oral and written submissions. As I believe that hon. Members have had an opportunity to read the report, I will only highlight a few salient issues contained in it.

Mr Speaker, regarding the mainstreaming of climate change in the Governments’ plans, the Committee was informed that the Ministry of Agriculture did not prioritise activities related to that in its programme of implementation. In instances in which the ministry integrated climate change adaptation measures in its plans and programmes, the issue was not given the priority it deserved. In this regard, the Committee recommends that the Government, through the Ministry of Agriculture, demonstrates its commitment to its plans by mainstreaming and prioritising support to activities that are intended to increase food security in the country.

Sir, the Committee also observes that although there has been a great improvement in the provision of meteorological services, more still needs to be done. In this regard, it recommends that weather stations be set up in every agricultural camp to promote a better understanding of climate change issues and their impact at the local community level. Regarding the creation of early-warning system for the agriculture sector in the country, the Committee was informed that the system was not effective because it was not operating at full capacity and that most districts did not have weather stations. In this regard, the Committee recommends that the Government ensures that all districts in the country are equipped with early-warning systems to enhance the provision of timely warning information to communities and farmers. The Committee further recommends that the early-warning unit at the Ministry of Agriculture be active at all times to ensure effective and timely dissemination of information on crop diseases, floods and droughts to farmers. Doing so will enable farmers to effectively plan ahead and avert crop losses.

Mr Speaker, the Committee was informed that the Ministry of Agriculture had not achieved the desired levels of crop diversification because maize had remained the dominant agricultural produce. The stakeholders who appeared before the Committee attributed the low crop diversification to inadequate targeting of input subsidy programmes, poorly functioning markets and transportation facilities, limited land size and security, and low irrigation development. In this regard, the Committee recommends that the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) be reformed in its scope and administration in order to promote a variety of crops. The Committee also recommends that the Ministry of Agriculture, in collaboration with relevant institutions, creates markets for crops to incentivise and motivate farmers to diversify into other crops.

Lastly, the Committee is grateful to you, Mr Speaker, and to the Clerk of the National Assembly for the guidance and support rendered to it during the consideration of the Report of the Audit-General on Government Measures to Address the Impact of Climate Change on Food Security: A Focus on Main Crops. The Committee is also indebted to all the witnesses who appeared before it for their co-operation in providing the necessary memoranda and briefs.

With those few words, I urge the hon. Members to support the report of the Committee.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speaker now or later?

Mr Mtayachalo: Now, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, thank you for according me this rare opportunity to second the report of your Committee on the Report of the Auditor-General on Government Measures to Address the Impact of Climate Change on Food Security in Zambia: A Focus on Main Crops.

Mr Speaker, the agricultural sector is the key to Zambia’s economic development and a vehicle for wealth creation at household level, especially for our small-scale farmers, who are mostly in rural areas. Further, the sector contributes 20 per cent to the country’s gross domestic product (GDP), and more than 70 per cent of our people are involved in agricultural economic activities. However, despite being a main driver of poverty eradication and job creation, the sector is faced with a number of challenges ranging from poor pest control mechanisms and poor adoption of conservation agriculture to low budgetary allocation to research and development (R&D).

Madam –

Hon. Members: Aah, awe!

Laughter

Mr Mtayachalo: Mr Speaker, as regards pest control and management, when your Committee went round the country, we were told that it had been a huge challenge and that most districts were prone to pest invasion. The farmers interviewed stated that there had been incessant invasions of pests, especially in the 2017/2018 and 2018/2019 farming seasons. We are also alive to the fact that offices of the District Agriculture Co-ordinators (DACOs) are not well capacitated. They are, therefore, not able to respond positively or proactively in terms of pest control. Therefore, your Committee recommends that there be an integrated and very vibrant mechanism for pest control. Currently, when there are invasions of army worms, most crop farmers are helpless because the DACOs in respective districts do not have the resources and capacity to control the pests.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

_______

The House adjourned at 1910 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday 14^th July, 2022.

____________

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