Tuesday, 12^th July, 2022

The House met at1430 hours

[MR SECOND DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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ANNOUNCEMENT BY MR SECOND DEPUTY SPEAKER

REGISTRATION DESK FOR YOUTH CO-OPERATIVES AT PARLIAMENT BUILDINGS

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to inform the House that the National Youth Development Council has been authorised to set up a desk atParliament Buildings to distribute copies of registration forms and accompanying guidelinesfor youth co-operatives in parliamentary constituencies to hon. Members of Parliament. This exercise will run from Thursday, 14^thJuly, 2022, from 1400 hours to 1700 hours, and Friday, 15^thJuly, 2022, from 0800 hours to 1300 hours.Hon. Members are encouraged to pass through the desk at the main reception area.

Thank you.

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MATTERS OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE

MR MWILA, HON. MEMBER FOR MUFULIRA, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND INTERNAL SECURITY, MR MWIIMBU, ON NON-ISSUANCE OF PASSPORTS

Mr Mwila: On a matter of urgent public importance, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, thank you very much for this opportunity. The matter I wish to raise is directed at the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security.

Mr Speaker, in the last three months or so, many Zambians across the country have been trooping to various passport offices in order to obtain passports to travel out of this country for various reasons. These people have been waiting and no passports have been issued for reasons not well explained. Many categories of people are affected as a result of the non-issuance of passports to the Zambian citizens. Among the people affected are those who need medical attention outside this country, who cannot travel because they do not have passports. These people risk losing their lives as a result of not accessing specialised medical attention outside this country because they do not have passports.

Mr Speaker, the other category of people affected are the students who need to take up scholarships outside this country and they are not able to travel because they applied for passports and, up to now, no passport has been issued. Further, other people, for example, businessmen need to go and do their transactions out of this country, but they are unable to travel because the passports have not been issued.

Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security in order to remain quiet when Zambians are affected, especially those who need to seek medical attention?

I seek your guidance, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, for a subject to qualify as a matter of urgent public importance, it has to be of recent occurrence. You have said that in the last three months, this has continued, so, I urge you to engage the relevant hon. Minister. Maybe, you can write to the ministry to seek clarity on the same subject.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

MR CHITOTELA, HON. MEMBER FOR PAMBASHE, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND LOGISTICS, MR TAYALI, ON NON-ISSUANCE OF ROAD TAX AND VEHICLE FITNESS CERTIFICATES

Mr Chitotela: On a matter of urgent public importance, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Chitotela: Congratulations,Mr Speaker, you have gained.

Laughter

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: What did you say, hon. Member?

Mr Chitotela: I said congratulations. You want to start competing with me in terms of the body stature.

Laughter

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: You can continue, hon. Member.

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, I rise on a matter of urgent public importance on the hon. Minister of Transport and Logistics. I learnt that recently, even as late as yesterday and today, Zambians are unable to access the road tax and vehicle fitness certificates. However, the hon. Minister of Transport and Logistics has deliberately remained quiet while inconveniencing the traveling public and risking the lives of the Zambian people who are traveling in uncertified vehicles, as a result of the interrupted network system. This could be due to noncompliance to the requirements for the Road Transport and Safety Agency (RTSA) to run an effective system.

Mr Speaker, of late, I have noted with great concern the criterion being used on the admissibility of a matter of urgent public importance. Standing Order No. 135 states as follows:

“A matter shall be considered urgent and of public importance if -

      (a)    it is a case of recent occurrence;

      (b)    it does not relate to a general state of affairs;

      (c)    it involves the administrative or ministerial responsibility of the Government;

      (d)    it requires the immediate attention of the House and the Government; and

     (d)    it deals with only one substantive issue.”

Mr Speaker, therefore, I have raised this issue because it is inconveniencing the general public and it deals with the administrative functions of the ministry.

I seek your serious guidance on this matter, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: I call upon the hon. Minister of Transport and Logistics to respond. Is he available?

Mr Tayali rose.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, if you are not in a position to give a detailed answer, you can still come back to the House later.

The Minister of Transport and Logistics (Mr Tayali): I thank you, Mr Speaker, and I also thank the hon. Member for bringing that matter to my attention. However, it is suffice for me to say that the operations of the Road Transport and Safety Agency (RTSA) are, indeed, of crucial importance to the Government’s smooth operations. I wish to state that I will pick it up with the RTSA and find out as to what may be causing such a technical glitch.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

MR MUMBA, HON. MEMBER FOR KANTANSHI, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF FINANCE AND NATIONAL PLANNING, DR MUSOKOTWANE, ON TAX COLLECTION FIGURES RELEASED BY THE ZAMBIA REVENUE AUTHORITY

Mr Mumba: On a matter of urgent public importance, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Mumba: Mr Speaker, I rise on a matter of urgent public importance pursuant to Standing Orders No.134 and 135, and it is directed at the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning.

Mr Speaker, you will agree with me that tax revenue invariably allows the Government to provide services to the people such as drugs, salaries and so on and so forth. There is a report by the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) which has received a lot of criticism and the report basically highlights the performance of the ZRA in the collection of taxes. There are sections of the media that believe that those figures that the ZRA has produced are not accurate. If anything, they are motivated by the fact that when the ZRA states that it has been able to surpass its target, there are bonuses awarded to the employees at the ZRA. However, as late as this morning, the former Commissioner General of the ZRA highlighted some of the important points that speak to the fact that it is very unclear that the ZRA has surpassed its target.

Mr Speaker, bearing in mind that the ZRA is the main provider of resources for the Government to meet all obligations, including the payment of loans, I would like to find out whether the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning is in a position to inform this House and the country at large exactly what the real resources that have been raised by the ZRA are, so that people have confidence in the budget performance. People will also have confidence in the Government being able to meet its obligations for salaries and wages. Further, people will be comfortable that even when they take bags of maize to the Food Reserve Agency (FRA), they will be paid on time.

Mr Speaker, I seek your guidance on this matter.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: I know that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning has just come in andhe probably did not get your question. I advise that you put in a written question. However, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning can still respond.

Interruptions

MrChitotela: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, I raised a matter of urgent public importance for the benefit of your House and members of the public out there. You directed the hon. Minister of Transport and Logistics to speak about the matter affecting the operations of the RTSA, and he just said that he will check with the RTSA without indicating when he will return to this House to inform the nation.

Sir, since you directed him to update the House, it looks like if you do not give him a timeframe on when he needs to come back to the House, the issue may die a natural death.

I seek your serious consideration of that subject, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: I think the hon. Minister was quite indicative in his response that he will seek more clarity with the Road Transport and Safety Agency (RTSA) and, thereafter, he will be in a position to get back to you. He can come back to the House, with a response on the matter, on 28^th July, 2022.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker:Let us observe order!

If the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning is not ready, he can come back to the House by Friday this week.

MR MUNG’ANDU, HON. MEMBER FOR CHAMA SOUTH, ON HON. UPND MEMBERS COMPLAINING ABOUT EXCLUSION WHEN THEY WERE IN OPPOSITION

Mr Mung’andu: On a matter of urgent public importance, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Mung’andu: Mr Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to raise a matter of urgent public importance.

Mr Speaker, before the August, 2021, General Election, this country witnessed our hon. Colleagues who were then in the Opposition lament and complain about the exclusion of our brothers and sisters, particularly from the Southern Province, in the governance system.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker:Order!

Hon. Member, you are debating the matter. State your –

Mr Mung’andu: This is what I am doing, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: No, you are now debating.

Mr Mung’andu: Mr Speaker, I am giving the background –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: No, you do not need to debate. You are debating.

Mr Mung’andu: I thought a matter of urgent public importance has to be explained for it to be a matter –

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: No, you just have to state the matter of public importance as it prevails. You do not have to debate.

Mr Mung’andu: Mr Speaker, I am not debating. Give me an opportunity to just explain. You will benefit from the explanation.

Mr Chaatila: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Hon. PF Members: Sit down!

Mr Mung’andu: Under which Standing Order?

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, continue.

Mr Mung’andu: Mr Speaker, the complaint which was brought to the nation –

Mr Chaatila: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mung’andu: Mr Speaker, he is disturbing me.

Mr Chaatila: On a point of order,Mr Speaker.

Mr Mung’andu: You cannot stand permanently when you have not been recognised.

Mr Chaatila: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mung’andu: Mr Speaker, this is an issue that we as leaders here should take very seriously. I remember the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development standing there complaining how the Patriotic Front (PF) Government excluded our brothers and sisters, and the people in the Southern Province are so dear to me, in terms of participation.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, you are debating.

Mr Mung’andu: Here is the point –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, resume your seat.

Mr Chewe: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Lubansenshi, you can continue.

Mr Chewe: Mr Speaker, this is about the procedure –

Mr Mung’andu: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Interruptions

Mr Mung’andu: No, this is a dignified House. Can we be serious on how we are handling this House. On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Lubansenshi, you can proceed.

Mr Chewe: Mr Speaker, I am rising in relation to Standing Order No. 134 (c).

Mr Speaker, my brother, the hon. Member of Parliament for Mufulira, raised a serious matter concerning our people who want to get passports. Standing Order No. 134 (c) and (d) state as follows:

“ …

     (a)    it involves the administrative or ministerial responsibility of the Government;

     (b)     it requires the immediate attention of the House and the Government;”

Mr Speaker, for me, this matter requires urgent attention. So, how best can the hon. Minister intervene, not through other organs, but through this House to see to it that this issue is really attended to because we may lose the lives of our people if it is not attended to urgently?

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: I directed on that issue that the hon. Member should engage the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security because this issue is not of recent occurrence.

Mr Chilangwa: On a matter of urgent public importance, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Let us proceed. Let us get to business.

Laughter

Mr Chilangwa: On a matter of urgent public importance, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

Let us proceed and make progress.

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MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS

MIGRATION OF HIPPOS WITHIN NALOLO CONSTITUENCY

The Minister of Tourism (Mr Sikumba): Mr Speaker, I rise to deliver a ministerial statement on the migration of hippos in Nalolo Constituency. This is in response to the urgent matter of public importance raised by the hon. Member of Parliament for Nalolo Parliamentary Constituency, who is in the House today.

Mr Speaker, I am grateful for the opportunity to clarify the issues raised and relieve the fears of the people of Nalolo Constituency. In order to address this matter more comprehensively, my statement will first address the cause of the hippo migration and, thereafter, highlight the steps that the Government has taken to address issues concerning human-wildlife conflicts across the country in collaboration with communities and our partners.

Mr Speaker, during the flood period on the Barotse flood plains, hippos along the Zambezi River migrate from the river to its tributaries where water levels are shallow and are good for pasture. You may wish to note that hippos do not swim but they walk on the riverbed. These tributaries on the Zambezi River are a conducive environment for hippos during flood periods and also villages along the plains. When the floods subside, the hippos do not return to the Zambezi River immediately and this is the source of a human-wildlife conflict.

Mr Speaker, human-wildlife conflicts in these areas arise from the fishing activities as fishermen cast their nets near the hippos. It is a known fact that fish choose to reside around hippos because fish eat the hippo dung. The hippos in turn hit the fishermen’s canoes causing injury or death in the same instances. Therefore, there is a need for people using or living along the water bodies to learn how to co-exist with the hippos by using fishing methods that will cause less conflict.

Mr Speaker, the other reason for human-wildlife conflicts is poaching. Wounded hippos and those with calves are very aggressive and to any passer-by, for any obvious reason, they become defensive. Every wounded animal will defend itself from attackers and also those with younger ones will defend to protect their young. Every week, each national park and wildlife officers in the Western Province receives not less than five human-wildlife conflict reports. Our priority has always been to attend to each report, especially those concerning injury, death or crops being destroyed. You may further need to note that scaring these animals by shooting in the air is not the best option as it ends up agitating the animal and it invariably becomes violent.

Mr Speaker, Nalolo is among the many constituencies in the Western Province affected by human-wildlife conflicts. Other constituencies with similar problems include Mwandi, Sioma, Senanga Central, Kalabo, Liuwa and Mongu in the plains.

Mr Speaker, due to spillovers from human activities into wildlife areas and wildlife movements into human settlements, we reiterate as a ministry that human-wildlife conflicts are inevitable. In line with our mandate to conserve and manage wildlife protected areas in a sustainable manner, the ministry has continued to recognise and address human-wildlife conflicts as a perennial problem.

Mr Speaker, the solutions to reducing incidences of human-animal conflicts lies in mitigating against the enabling factors at all levels. At a broader level and on a continuous basis, the Government is implementing four key interventions to address human-animal conflicts. These include but are not limited to:

       (a)     the Government plans, this year, to recruit wildlife police officers to enhance law enforcement, wildlife

                 management and protection of human wildlife prone areas;

       (b)    developing and implementing general management plans;

       (c)    increasing community involvement in wildlife; and

       (d)   improving law enforcement and wildlife habitat protection through increased patrols.

Mr Speaker, further, the use of local radio stations to educate and sensitise communities living around human animal habitants on the threats posed by animals the times that they are likely to materialise and mechanisms for preventing harm to human life and property, will continue to be employed.

Mr Speaker, in order for us to have active an early warning system, the Government has continued to conduct regular monitoring of animal population and movement coupled with early notification of communities and control to ensure animal density stay within recommended stocking rates. For effectiveness, the use of Global Positioning System (GPS) satellite collars and aerial surveillance for animal tracking will need to be scaled up as in the case of Liuwa and Kafue national parks.

Mr Speaker, our aim as the Government, is to reduce the scale and frequency and eventually elimination of occurrences to safeguard the lives of people and property from threat from wildlife. On their part, communities need to desist from encroaching on protected areas because experience has demonstrated that there are conflicts in land uses in these particular areas.

Mr Speaker, we are confident that the successful implementation of the integrated approaches to combat human-wildlife conflicts, will go a long way in preserving the life and safeguarding crops and domestic animals. These measures will result in a peaceful co-existence of humans and wildlife.

Mr Speaker, with those few remarks, I thank you.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement issued by the hon. Minister of Tourism.

Mr E. Tembo (Feira): Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the response to the issue raised by the hon. Member for Nalolo.

Mr Speaker, I just want to find out from the Minister as to whether the information that comes from the technocrats and given to us in this House is actually correct. My question is premised on the fact that human-animal conflicts have reached alarming levels in this country. People are dying and crops are being eaten, and the answers we seem to get are as if all is well. So, I want to find out if the hon. Minister verifies the answers that he obtains from the technocrats.

Mr Sikumba: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member of Parliament for Feira for that question.

Mr Speaker, yes, the responses I give are verified by my technocrats and being the custodian of the ministry, my team and I really understand what we talk about.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Wamunyima (Nalolo): Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the comprehensive statement on the issue of hippos.

Mr Speaker, my concern is that the statement is so general. The issue in Nalolo is that the hippos that are now in huge numbers in Lake Ngulu and Amakumba, have put over one thousand people who cross that lake through paddling a canoeat risk and there are pupils who go to Nambwayi Secondary School every day, and members of the community who need to go to the hospital. What is the immediate solution rather than the general recruitment of wildlife personnel that will be done in future and sensitising people on radio? As I stand here before this august House, one youth was attacked and is still in hospital. So, what immediate intervention has the ministry taken to ensure that those people do not wait for the long-term measures?

Mr Sikumba: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member of Parliament for Nalolo for that follow-up question.

Mr Speaker, I am happy to note that, yes, the habitat population for hippos is growing and our mandate as a ministry is to conserve these animals for future prosperity as well as tourism products. I have on many occasions stood here on the floor of the Floor, and I have mentioned that the human-wildlife conflicts that exist today in our country are purely because we have competing resources with these particular animals. When I say competing resources with these animals, I am talking about the issue of water, where our citizens draw water from the rivers infested by hippos, crocodiles and other animals. With the increase of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), we are requesting hon. Members of Parliament to put up alternative sources of points to collect water from, so that our people do not go to the rivers.

Mr Speaker, I also implore hon. Members of Parliament in these particular areas to give communities alternative sources of revenue. The United Party for National Development (UPND) Government has given opportunities to communities, including those in Nalolo Constituency, to get grants so that they do not find themselves fishing in those hippo infested areas. So, those are some of the immediate means that the UPND Government has put in place and I hope the hon. Member of Parliament for Nalolo and the other people in these particular areas we are talking about will help the Government to achieve that. We will not in the immediate time crop any hippos and this is simply because we are party to certain treaties that do not allow us to go on a campaign of cropping those particular hippos, but only until we get to the stocking level or habitat level of the hippos, will we be able to definitely crop.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Mr Speaker, I listened to the statement –

Mr Sikumba conversed withother hon. Ministers.

Rev.  Katuta: Hon. Minister, can you concentrate, please.

Mr Speaker, he keeps on talking to others when I want to ask a question.

Mr Speaker, in the statement, the hon. Minister only listed certain districts where this problem is, but I thought there are human-animal conflicts in almost every part of the country, and I remember the time I was in Mfuwe, we were almost attacked by an elephant. So, will the Government put in place certain strategies on how it can, maybe, help our people to survive because he spoke about the crocodiles as well?

Mr Sikumba: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Chienge for that timely question.

Mr Speaker, the solutions we are implementing in Nalolo Constituency will definitely be replicated to other areas prone to human-wildlife conflicts. Let me say this again; it is very important that each and every hon. Member of Parliament in these particular areas is part of the taskforce, which will assist us mitigate some of the challenges we are facing. I remember very well that I invited the hon. Members of Parliament in those particular areas to apply as honorary wildlife police officers. It is a very interesting role and obviously as lawmakers, it would be very important that we showcase the skills we have in managing wildlife.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North):Mr Speaker, thank you very much for according me this opportunity to ask a follow-up question.

Mr Speaker, human-animal conflicts have been escalating and the situation in Nalolo is very worrying, and as the hon. Member stated, people’s lives are at great risk. Is the hon. Minister considering engaging his colleagues at the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security or the Ministry of Defence to reinforce wildlife officers because I can see that his officers are understaffed and overwhelmed, so that they can give backup support?

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: The hon. Minister of Tourism, in his ministerial statement, stated that they intend to employ more officers, but he can still shed some light.

Mr Sikumba: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member of Parliament for Chama North for that question.

Mr Speaker, yes, we have engaged obviously the authority to employ more wildlife police officers and I am happy that the hon. Member recognises the fact that the Department of National Parks and Wildlife (DNPW) is understaffed. We will definitely engage the defence forces to help us mitigate the problem, especially on the aspect of law enforcement. We will need our colleagues from the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security as well as the Ministry of Defence to help us in law enforcement because we realise that poaching is rampant in our national parks.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Menyani Zulu (Nyimba): Mr Speaker, I am just worried that we signed some treaties which do not allow us to crop these animals and the hon. Minister may agree with me that a good number of people have lost their lives.

Mr Speaker, the Minister in his statement said that some hippos attack people after being wounded by the poachers. In order to minimise or to completely stop poaching, is the hon. Minister and his team considering issuing special hunting licences to the people who live along those areas because these are the people keeping these animals other than having just people from the rich circle going to hunt?

Mr Sikumba: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member of Parliament for Nyimba for that question.

Mr Speaker, yes, we will give out hunting quotas this year, both for resident hunting as well as bonafide hunting and, definitely, we will start doing that sometime in September. We just hope that after September, most of these issues my fellow Parliamentarians are raising will be dealt with.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mutale (Chitambo): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister stated in his statement that they will employ more game scouts this year.

Hon. Member interjected.

Mr Mutale: Eh! Okay.

Mr Speaker, canthe hon. Minister be more specific so that the people of Chitambo, in particular the youthswho want to apply, can know the month and date that the Government shall be employing game scouts.

Mr Sikumba: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that timely question. May I restrict the time and date to the advertisement that is going to be published in the daily newspapers.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr J. Chibuye (Roan): Mr Speaker, the hon. Member for Nalolo has lamented that the hippos wounded one person who is currently hospitalised. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister as to whether his officers, who he intends to rush to pacify the situation in case of any conflict as the population is increasing, are subjected to regular training workshops on how to handle these conflicts. I am saying this because, last week, we woke up to sad news where an officer from the Department of National Parks and Wildlife (DNPW) was actually killed by being trampled on by an elephant in the Kafue National Park and he had a number of children under his guard. How often are the officers subjected to regular workshops or training?

Mr Sikumba:Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Roan for that timely question.

Mr Speaker, indeed, we sympathise with the family of our officer who passed on in the Kafue National Park. That in itself should not have happened in any given instance due to the rigorous training that the teams go through. However, I must make mention that all our officers, before they wear the uniform, go through a rigorous training of not less than six months to be called Wildlife Police Officers. We have various training centres within the DNPW which always provide refresher courses to our officers. However, you never know whether the kind of animal you are dealing with at any given time is agitated or not, but obviously, I must make mention that our officers are well trained. To quickly answer the question, yes, our teams always have refresher courses. One of our biggest training camps is in the Kafue National Park and it is called Chunga. I can safely tell the hon. Members that all our officers they see wearing uniforms are well conversant in managing wildlife.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Nalolo, the Standing Orders say if you have asked a question on a ministerial statement, you cannot ask again.

PROGRESS MADE ON PENSION REFORMS

The Minister of Labour and Social Security (Ms Tambatamba): Mr Speaker, it is my great honour and privilege to present to this august House and to the general members of the public, the latest update on pension reforms.

Mr Speaker, the Government of the Republic of Zambia, through the Ministry of Labour and Social Security, has been leading the process of broad-based social security reforms with the view to establishing a comprehensive, responsive and sustainable pension scheme in Zambia. Such would guarantee decent livelihoods for the working age population, the retirees and senior citizens.

Mr Speaker, these reforms seek to among other objectives improve the parametric fundamentals of the pension system while being responsive to the needs of the scheme members and other emerging national development policy imperatives.

In the final analysis, Mr Speaker, these reforms must provide reasonable pension benefits at the point when workers have retired and a salary has ceased. A reasonable pension benefit should provide a decent livelihood in retirement. The pension system should also respond to the needs of members during employment by providing economic empowerment to the working age populations as per the aspirations of this New Dawn Government.

Mr Speaker, as all may be aware, issues pertaining to pension reforms, especially the question of allowing partial withdrawal of pension contributions under the National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA), has dominated the public discourse in the recent past. His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, re-emphasised the urgent need to finalise the reform process and deliver the people’s expectations and aspirations, but in a responsible manner taking every requisite step to deliver a quality and meaningful package.

Mr Speaker, in seeking to address the question of permitting the partial withdrawal of contributionsby the 900 plus members of the NAPSA, the Government is fully aware of the prerequisites to undertake consultations with stakeholders and to conduct an economic actuarial assessment, which is a standard requirement whenever there are proposed changes to pension scheme parameters. The actuarial assessment isparamount and cannot be overlooked because it provides the financial implications of any given reform option in the immediate, short and long term and, therefore, provides an empirical basis for decision making. Actuarial assessments also provide information on the solvency of pension funds.

Mr Speaker, with regards to consultations, I wish to inform the House that the Government has to date engaged with a number of stakeholders, including but not limited to, the Zambia Congress of Trade Unions, the Federation of Free Trade Unions of Zambia, the Zambia Federation of Employers, the International Labour Organisation (ILO), the World Bank, the Bank of Zambia (BoZ), the Pensions and Insurance Authority, the Actuarial Society of Zambia, the National Economic Advisory Council and the Zambia Institute of Policy Research. The matter was also tabled before the tripartite consultative labour council that brings together our tripartite partnership of the Government, the workers and employers. These engagements were based on the Issues and Options Paper on Withdrawal Benefits that was developed and circulated to stakeholders by the ministry on 15^th March, 2022. From the engagementswith stakeholders, the issue of undertaking a more detailed study on the impact of the various reform options came out prominently.

Mr Speaker, you may wish to appreciate the fact that qualified actuarial consultants with competencies to undertake an actuarial valuation on the proposed reforms option are rare in-country and are usually expensive. Taking into account its rich international experience and pool of expertise which has developed over time, the ILO has agreed to work with us and offer technical support and it pointed out that the exercise is necessary but that it requires ample time to be actualised and finalised. The ministry is currently awaiting technical notes from the ILO that outline the scope of works, timeframes and deliverables.

Mr Speaker, it is expected that the actuarial valuation results will assist the Government in pursuing our reform option that will ensure adequacy of benefits, sustainability of the system and affordability to the contributors. The assessment will also provide information for making decisions around the appropriate retirement age, which has been a public debate and a concern for many of our people.

Mr Speaker, you will note that the Zambian pension system is anchored on a legal framework that includes the Constitution of the Republic of Zambia, the National Pensions Scheme Act, the Workers Compensation Act, the Pension Scheme Regulation Act, the Local Authorities Superannuation Fund Act, and the Public Service Pension Fund Act, among others.

Mr Speaker, I wish to bring to your attention the fact that the reform process on various social security institutions is being co-ordinated across the Government ministries under whose portfolio mandate they fall, such as the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development and the Ministry of Finance and National Planning.

Mr Speaker, in conclusion, I want to report progress made to date in summary as follows:

     (a)   the issues and options paper was finalised in February, 2022, and circulated to stakeholders in March;

     (b)   the consultative process begun with the Tripartite Consultative Labour Councilmeeting in April followed by

            the stakeholder consultative meeting in May; and

     (c)   in June, the ILO was engaged and requested to provide technical support through undertaking of the

           actuarial assessment.

Mr Speaker, the actuarial valuation which we are hopeful will be finalised by the ILO and other stakeholders who will come on the tableby the end of the year, shall provide a clear policy direction.What will follow then after is the development of appropriate legislation to proceed through established channels before presentation to this august House.

Mr Speaker, this House and the nation shall be updated on the progress to the end on a regular basis.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement issued by the Minister of Labour and Social Security.

Mr J. Chibuye: Thank you, Mr Speaker, kwagala.

Mr Speaker, I quickly want to cite an example. In my constituency, many workers are still struggling to get their pension from the National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA) and some who were contributing under the Roan Antelope Mining Corporation (RAMCOZ) actually died. I am delighted and elated to hear the hon. Minister state that in the reforms, the Government is considering including the option of workers getting half of their pension. How serious is the ministry considering the option of workers getting partial payments before they reach fifty-five years? Further, is the ministry also considering reducing the age one gets benefits to fifty-five, since most employees die without getting their pension?

Ms Tambatamba: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member of Parliament for Roan for that good question. I know he is always concerned about the worker, and we deliberate quite a bit on a number of issues.

Indeed, Mr Speaker, my ministry is serious, as committed by the United Party for National Development (UPND) and our alliance partners. In our manifesto, we committed to put in place a responsible mechanism that will ensure that we look to the now and here of the workers’ lives and look forward to the time when their employment will cease. So, at this moment, I assure my colleague, the hon. Member of Parliament for Roan, that the Government is coming up with a package that will ensure social security is assured at the point where people need their resource, that they have been saving through the pension fund. However, we have to do that by ensuring that the institution or the scheme is solvent throughout, for those who are getting out through retirement and those who are still working and would like to begin to invest part of their resources.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Anakoka (Luena): Mr Speaker, it is gratifying to note that this methodical Government is undertaking actuarial studies before concluding the issue of partial withdrawal of the National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA) contributions. Poor investment decisions have been cited in the past on the part of the NAPSA, and this is attributed to the fact that the current arrangement makes the NAPSA to be both a pension fund as well as a fund manager. In the review that is being undertaken, is the option of dealing with the two –

Mr Mung’andu: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Member:Iwe can you sit down.

Interruptions

Mr Anakoka: Is the option of delinking the two, so that the NAPSA retains its role as a pension fund which does not make investment decisions, and rather that function is given to a fund manager, going to be considered in order to enhance efficient investment decisions of the pension fund?

Mr Mung’andu: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: You can rise your point of order, although I had wanted the hon. Member for Luena to finish so that you come in later on.

Mr Mung’andu: Mr Speaker, I will wait. Let him finish and after he finishes, I will rise.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: You can go ahead. Did you not want to –

Mr Mung’andu: Mr Speaker, I rise on a serious point of order. I will refer to our Standing Order No. 133 which states as follows:

“A presiding officer may exercise discretion over the taking of, or allowing, a Point of Order”.

Interruptions

Mr Mung’andu: Mr Speaker, I do not expect a very senior Member to be making running comments.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Mung’andu: Mr Speaker, arising from this Standing Order, you will use your discretion to allow this point of order or not.

Mr Speaker, earlier on, I raised a matter of urgent public importance. A matter of urgent public importance is not like a follow-up question where you get a yes or no response. It is a matter that needs to be explained to the august House and understood by you so that you make a judgement. However, you insisted on me going straight to the point before I could give the background, which I feel is against my rights as a Member of Parliament.

Interruptions

Mr Mung’andu: Mr Speaker, I want to find out from you arising from this …

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member –

Mr Mung’andu: … whether you can allow me to raise that matter or not because it is so urgent. Using your discretion, can you allow me or not?

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: To start with hon. Member, you are out of order to challenge my decision.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: I think we have passed there. Let us proceed. The hon. Member for Luena was on the Floor.

Hon. Opposition Members left the Assembly Chamber.

Interruptions

Mr Anakoka: Mr Speaker, having given the background, as regards the reforms being undertaken by the ministry, is the option of delinking the NAPSA from being a fund manager as well as a pension house going to be considered, so that the responsibility of managing the investments and necessary returns to satisfy what will be needed to meet the partial withdrawal option can be done in an efficient and effective manner?

Ms Tambatamba: Mr Speaker, as indicated, this assessment will be broad and deep, and it will bring together information that will reduce the options I spoke about in my statement. We undertook a review and came up with an options paper with about eight to nine options. Stakeholders are dissecting those options and making a wide range of proposals for the arrangement of this package for it to succeed.

Mr Speaker, the study will inform and tell us what will speak to our ability to deliver the mid-term withdrawal. I would be pre-empting the more scientific assessments that will give parameters which are well studied, if I spoke about what we will be doing. However, what will speak to the ability to deliver that mid-term withdrawal will be the option that will dictate the type of organisational arrangement that we will go with.

Mr Speaker, as the hon. Member for Luena indicated, we are a methodical Government so we will await all the information coming in and assess what will deliver the package. If it is a system that requires that we separate the two functions that he speaks to, then that is what will be on the table to discuss. So, the actuarial assessment will speak to the type of arrangement that will deliver this package.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Nyambose was inaudible.

Mr Ngowani (Mpongwe): Mr Speaker, in the reforms, are they also considering decentralising the pension scheme, especially for civil servants at the provincial level so that the retired civil servants in other areas do not have to come to Lusaka?

Ms Tambatamba: Mr Speaker, the NAPSA is decentralised and it is in all the provinces. I encourage the hon. Member for Mpongwe to get information as to where the offices are located on the Copperbelt.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mumba (Kantanshi): Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the statement, which I think is very timely. I want to find out a couple of things that will help the public appreciate this initiative from the Government.

Mr Speaker, you are aware that the National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA) currently has a number of toxic investments which, so far, have not been addressed by the ministry, because we could have received a ministerial statement, and there are incomplete investments dotted around the country. In the assessment being done, have they considered our life expectancy in Zambia because I heard that they are having discussions with consultants, who probably come from countries with strong health systems where people live longer?

Ms Tambatamba: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Kantanshi for that good question, although I missed the last one and he will have to repeat it. However, as to what he calls toxic investments dotted around the country, the hon. Member will realise that we are in a transitional period and we have had to put in place a new board and a new chairperson as well. We also had to replace the retired director-general and we put a new one in place. The new director-general has only been in place for less than a month; he has just been around for the past three weeks or so.

Mr Speaker, some of the work that the new team at the NAPSA will do will to review its investment portfolio and many other functions, and I imagine that this matter or his concern will be attended to.

Mr Speaker, as for the other issue, I alluded to the fact that the actuarial study will involve a number of stakeholders around the table and consultants. Those from abroad and within will definitely bring to the fore or put in place a customised package that will respond to theneeds of the population that this scheme is serving, and life expectancy is one of the perimeters that willbe accessed by the actuaries.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mwambazi (Bwana Mkubwa): Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for the elaborate answers she is giving.

Mr Speaker, in terms of complyingto the submission of payments to the National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA),they are deducted from the workers but, mostly, the Government defaults or delays to remit to that effect. What is the ministry doing about that?

Ms Tambatamba: Mr Speaker, we are in the process of attending to theissue of the penalties and other aspects on the implementation of this package. In due course, this matter will be attended to because we know that many submissions have come through from the members of the public. So, this matter is being considered for review.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Nyambose(Chasefu): Mr Speaker, I had earlier indicated, and I thank you for coming back to me. I thank the hon. Minister for the well-articulated ministerial statement on the pension reforms.

Mr Speaker, on the issue of the partial withdrawal of pension contributions from an institution called the National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA), the hon. Minister has well-articulated that a pension system should respond to the needs of the members, andthat is the spine of havinga pension. Will the actuarial assessment being done respond to theimmediate pressure in line with the partial withdrawal of the pension contributions? Does the hon. Minister think that this actuarial assessment will immediately address the challenges that the contributors are facing, especially those who contribute to the NAPSA, unlike those who contribute to the Local Authorities Superannuation Fund (LASF) and the Public Service Pension Fund? Why the NAPSA and not these other institutions?

Ms Tambatamba: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that question. He wants to know whether the study or assessment will answer to the immediate needs of the people.

Mr Speaker, this is the reason we will go through the reforms and we are bringing together all the different stakeholders,the unions, the Federation of Employers and various think-tanksat the table.We will in due course go to the provinces to also get opinions from the people, to bring it altogether. That is the only way we will come up with something that is well customised and responsive to the needs of the people. If we run through it quickly andjust respond for the sake of responding to what people are asking,we will end up collapsing the fund. At the end of the day,the New Dawn Government has the duty and responsibility to make decisions that are sound and sustainablefor the future and that willbring benefits to the table,and will be enjoyed not only by the current generation but generations yet to come.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

_______

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

MONEY ZESCO LIMITED PAYS TO THE ZAMBEZI RIVER AUTHORITY

357. Mr B. Mpundu (Nkana) (on behalf ofMr Chala (Chipili)) asked the Minister of Energy:

      (a)    how much money ZESCO Limited pays to the Zambezi River Authority annually for the water used for

              power generation at Kariba Dam in Siavonga District; and

      (b)  what the purpose of the payment is.

The Minister of Energy (Mr Kapala): Mr Speaker, the amount paid to the Zambezi River Authority (ZRA) is composed of a fixed monthly amount of US$276,899.68 and variable cost based on quantity of water abstracted for power generation in a particular month at the current tariff of 0.0004736 m³ of water. The average annual payment to the ZRA, inclusive of the fixed amount, ranges from US$12.4 million to US$16 million, depending on how much power has been generated during the year.

 Mr Speaker, the purpose of the payments is to enable the ZRA to raise funds for the monitoring and maintenance of the dam through a tariff agreed in a water purchase agreement with the utility companies in the two countries to meet the ZRA’s budget.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr B. Mpundu: Mr Speaker, we are all aware that the infrastructure that is used by the Zambezi River Authority (ZRA) was constructed by the Government. Perhaps, the hon. Minister will do well to inform this House as to why the ZRA, which is using the infrastructure that was built by the Government, is charging a Government entity colossal sums of money to a tune of US$16 million per annum?

Mr Kapala: Mr Speaker, I think I should read out the services offered by the ZRA and these are to operate, monitor and maintain the Kariba Complex, collect, accumulate and process hydrological and environmental data of the Zambezi River and make recommendations to ensure the effective and efficient use of the water and other resources of the Zambezi River.

Mr Speaker, I should mention that the ZRA is a non-profit making entity of the two Governments.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mapani (Namwala): Mr Speaker, is the Government of the Republic of Zambia, through ZESCO Limited, up to date with all the payments that are required regarding the figures that the hon. Minister mentioned?

Mr Kapala: Mr Speaker, I should admit that there is still some backlog of receipts that are due to the ZRA from ZESCO Limited, but I do not have the actual figures. I can get back to the House and give the actual figures that are owed to the ZRA.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mumba (Kantanshi): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister mentioned that the Zambezi River Authority (ZRA) is a non-profit making company. If it is a non-profit making company, what sort of tax rebates does it have which would justify the payment of the Value Added Tax (VAT) to the Zambian Government?

Mr Kapala: Mr Speaker, I need to get back to my office to check the actual statutory instruments that give incentives for the ZRA not to make profits on the Zambezi River.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: When will you be ready to come back to the House?

Mr Kapala: Mr Speaker, I can get back to the House as early as this Friday.

Mr Tayengwa (Kabwata): Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity to ask a question.

Mr Speaker, the Zambezi River Authority (ZRA) is not a non-profit making organisation. Are the amounts charged to ZESCO Limited equally the same amounts charged to the Zimbabwe Electricity Supply Authority (ZESA), the other company operating on the Zimbabwean side?

Mr Kapala: Mr Speaker, this is a 50/50 shared utility company. Therefore, the rates applied to ZESCO Limited are the same rates applied to the Zimbabweans.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Sialubalo (Sinazongwe): Mr Speaker, thank you so much for giving me this opportunity.

Mr Speaker, where is the headquarters of the Zambezi River Authority (ZRA) and what is the modality of employment since it is shared by two countries?

Mr Kapala: Mr Speaker, the headquarters of the ZRA is in Zambia and the Chief Executive Officer (CEO) of the ZRA is from Zimbabwe. That is the way it was worked out.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: There is one part that you did not answer. He wanted clarity on the employment structure.

Mr Kapala: Mr Speaker, this is why I said that the CEO of the ZRA comes from Zimbabwe because the headquarters of the ZRA is in Zambia. That is the arrangement that was agreed upon.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: I think the hon. Member wants to know how recruitment or employment is done.

Mr Kang’ombe: Yes, for the other employees.

Mr Kapala: Mr Speaker, I need to research on how the recruitment is done, but I suppose it is agreed between the two countries the kind of staff that country A will provide and the kind of staff that country B will provide. I think it is a 50/50 arrangement.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mwambazi (Bwana Mkubwa): Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister of Energy for the answers he is providing. I stand to be corrected, but I understand that ZESCO Limited maintains the Kariba Dam. If so, why does it have to pay again to the Zambezi River Authority (ZRA)?

Mr Kapala: Mr Speaker, the maintenance of the Kariba Dam is done by the ZRA and not ZESCO Limited.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr B. Mpundu: Mr Speaker, my question has already been asked.

Mr Simuzingili (Gwembe): Mr Speaker, there is the Zambezi Valley Development Fund, which are basically contributions from ZESCO Limited and the Zambezi River Authority (ZRA), and it is meant for the people who were displaced when Lake Kariba was being constructed. How much does ZESCO Limited contribute to this fund?

Mr Kapala: Mr Speaker, I assume ZESCO Limited contributes 50 per cent to this fund and I know that usually about K1.2 million is spent annually to provide the required amenities.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: I think as you come back on Friday, you should bring an answer that is quite precise, than making presumptions on that matter, hon. Minister.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Anakoka (Luena): Mr Speaker, without trying to dissect in technical terms exactly what the Zambezi River Authority (ZRA) does, but in relation to the figure of US$60 million per annum and the responsibilities the hon. Minister cited, at least a layman gets a feeling that this does not really match. So, my question is: Will the hon. Minister, as he comes back to this House with the information on Friday, also indicate whether the Government is willing to revisit this agreement between Zambia and Zimbabwe in terms of how it is structured currently? Can he indicate whether the way it was agreed from initiation is still as relevant in all aspects to this day, such as the staff compliment arrangement. Maybe, he can even talk about the basis on which the money to be paid is calculated and the sharing of the funds, in terms of the responsibility to contribute to the ZRA.

Mr Kapala: Mr Speaker, I have taken note and I should be able to report on that in my ministerial statement on Friday.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

IMPLEMENTATION OF WOMEN EMPOWERMENT PROGRAMMES IN KASEMPA DISTRICT

358. Mr Kamondo (Mufumbwe) asked the Vice-President:

       (a)  whether there were any women empowerment programmes implemented in Kasempa District from 2018 to

              2020, year by year;

       (b)  if so, what the programmes were;

       (c)  in which wards the programmes were implemented;

       (d) if no such programmes were implemented, why; and

      (e) when women empowerment programmes will be introduced in the district.

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Mr Speaker, no women empowerment programmes were implemented in Kasempa District between 2018 and 2020.

Mr Speaker, the answer to part (b) is, as stated above, no programmes were implemented.

Mr Speaker, no wards were covered arising from the answer to parts (a) and (b) of the question.

Mr Speaker, the coverage of women empowerment programmes is not in all districts at the same time in the country due to prioritisation according to the availability of funds.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Member for Mufumbwe will be happy to note that although no women empowerment programmes were implemented between 2018 and 2020 in Kasempa District, the Government in 2021 empowered Nsabo Women Club and Nkasekelela Multi-purpose Co-operative Society in Kasempa District. Nsabo Women Club was empowered with a solar powered egg incubator with the capacity to hatch 420 eggs while Nkasekelela Multi-purpose Co-operative Society was empowered with 100 beehives and a honey presser.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kamondo: Mr Speaker, I thank Her Honour the Vice-President for –

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Are you rising on a point of order?

Mr Nkombo: Yes, Mr Speaker.

My point of order,Mr Speaker,is pursuant to Standing Orders No. 202, 203 as well as 226 of our Standing Orders, 2021. The point of order is on the hon. Member of Parliament for Chama South in the first instance under Standing Orders No. 202, 203 and 226, and by extension, all the hon. Members of the Patriotic Front (PF) Party who have walked out today. I understand very clearly that walking out is a preserve of hon. Members of Parliament as a sign of showing displeasure.

Mr Speaker, on the point of order on Mr Mung’andu, Standing Order No. 226 addresses the manner in which a Member can challenge the decision of the Chair. I am very happy to refer all hon. Members who may have the Standing Orders to that Standing Order so that I do not spend time reading through it as you have already made a decision and a ruling that he was out of order to challenge you.

Mr Speaker, it was clear that the hon. PF Members of Parliament who walked out for a short while before they finally walked out, went and had a caucus on how they would establish a matter against you.

Rev. Katuta: Do you have evidence?

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: Theircoming back here after they walked out encouraged Mr Mung’andu to raise a point of order following your decision not to admit his matter of urgent public importance. At the time you made a decision that he was out of order, they decided to leave the House. It is very clear that today 12^th July, 2022, thehon. PF Members who have walked out have clearly got money in sitting allowances via false pretenceand that they did not mean to work for the Zambian people for whom they were elected.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Rev. Katuta:Are you the one to say that?

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, just for avoidance of doubt and to educate the Member for Chienge, who is now heckling at me, I will read what Standing Order No. 202 says, which addresses the privileges of hon. Members of Parliament. Maybe, let me go to Standing Order No. 202 (3), so that I expedient in view of time and it states as follows:

         “(3)      a member who abuses the privileges commits an offence of ‘breach of privilege’ and may be punished by the House.”

Standing Order No. 203, Conduct of Members, states as follows:

“(1)      a member shall at all times conduct himself or herself in a manner that upholds the dignity, integrity and decorum of the House.

(2)         a member shall not act in a manner that brings the House or other members generally into disrepute.”

Mr Speaker, as I end, the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security yesterday was on television, and I saw him, and he indicated that there are sections of our society, in this casethe PF Members whowere seated here, …

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: …who intend to disrupt the peace and preparations of the prestigious African Union (AU) Summit in order to create a bad image for our guests.

Mr Speaker,is Hon. Mung’andu and the hon. PF Members who walked out in order to stage-manage their desire to fraudulently collect money throughsitting allowances …

Interruptions

Mr Nkombo: …by coming here and going out for good against their responsibility to conduct business for the people who voted for them and to attend to their interests and aspirations.

Mr Speaker, I seek your ruling.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Thank you very much, hon. Minister, for the point of order. I think I require a bit of time to study the matter very thoroughly …

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker:… so that I can come to render my ruling appropriately.

May the hon. Member for Mufumbwe continue.

Mr Kamondo: Mr Speaker, I thank Her Honour the Vice-President for the answers she has given to the people of Kasempa.

Mr Speaker, I appreciate the little that was done in Kasempa. However, you may be aware that Kasempa is one of the vast constituencies in Zambia and has more than twenty-four wards, but only one ward benefited from the women empowerment programme. DoesHer Honour the Vice-President not think that it would be prudent to consider the women in the twenty-three wards who were not empowered, by giving them beehives and other things that may improve their lives?

The Vice-President:Thank you, Madam Speaker, and thank you –

Interruptions

The Vice-President: Sorry, Mr Speaker. Am sorry for that.

Mr Speaker,indeed, it would be prudent. The hon. Member wants to know whether it would not be prudent to spread the empowerment of women in Kasempa to other wards. Truly, that would be prudent. I would also like to inform the hon. Member that the empowerment of women is not just left to one grouping, but it is spread in many different sectors. The Constituency Development Fund (CDF) is one of the areas in which women are being empowered. So, as you look at the constituency, you will see where there was no empowerment and bring it.

Mr Speaker,under agriculture, there is some empowerment and under small and medium –, basically, there are empowerment programmes for women.There is a misunderstanding that when there is no Ministry for Gender, then, there is no women empowerment. The women are everywhere. This is the position of the Government, and I believe of fellow women. You cannot limit women to one thing. We are found everywhere. So, you will find us everywhere and empowerment should be everywhere whether in agriculture or livestock and fisheries; there should be empowerment for women. So, there is empowerment everywhere. It is important that you now search and see how it is being spread out. Indeed, women in all wards must be accorded an opportunity to get economic empowerment.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mutelo (Mitete): Mr Speaker, what really changed that in the previous two years, there were no women empowerment programmes in Kasempa but, in 2021, some empowerment programmes started?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member wants to know what really changed. Earlier, I said it is a matter of priorities. Our colleagues had different priorities and we may just assumethat. Apparently, they did not see the empowerment of women as one of the things that needed to be done. What has changed is the change in administration and the priorities of the New Dawn Government.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the empowerment of women shall be done in every constituency through the CDF. This is what change of Government means because then, you start thinking of what to do. We know that when you empower women, you empower the nation. So, what has changed is the change of Government.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Thank you for that elaborate answer, Her Honour the Vice-President. It is true that when you empower women, you empower everyone.

Mr Mabeta (Kankoyo): Mr Speaker, my question has been well tackled by Her Honour the Vice-President.

Mr Lubozha (Chifubu): Mr Speaker, Her Honour the Vice-President clearly stated that the other option to empower the women in Kasempa is through the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). However, in the CDF, there is a component of loans, through which women in Kasempa are supposed to benefit, but it has currently been halted. How immediate is the Government looking into this to open the floodgates so that the women in Kasempa can benefit from the loans as part of the empowerment?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member.

Mr Speaker, I am actually caught unaware. I am not aware that we have halted the loans in the CDF guidelines and I think it still stands. My position, as of now, is that it still stands in the CDF guidelines that there will be loans and grants under that programme. If anything has changed, I am yet to be briefed.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kamondo: Mr Speaker, indeed, the people of Kasempa are very happy with the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) and they actually know that it is going to help them. However, as I said earlier, Kasempa is very vast, and very few people will benefit from women empowerment programmes. I just received a message from the people of Kasempa – two years was too much, and the people of Kasempa, especially the women, would hear of places where women were being empowered. So, they are asking through me if that was not just meant to side-line them, and this also increased the poverty levels in Kasempa? With the coming in of the New Dawn Government, surely, the people of Kasempa deserve better because they were side-lined. Her Honour the Vice-President being a lady, does she not think there are other means to help the people of Kasempa?

The Vice- President: Mr Speaker, I think knowing which constituencies were given women empowerment would need a lot of information. However, we heard even from hon. Ministers that many so-called projects and programmes were in the minds of the people who were in the Government. The actual implementation of the programmes was poor everywhere, unless the hon. Member is referring to the money they were freely dishing out. However, as regards the programmes, they were not really implemented not just in Mufumbwe, but in many areas across the country. Therefore, we have a responsibility to ensure there is equity in our time and to see to it that people in the entire country are treated fairly or equitably so that they can feel part of this country and this is the way we are moving. As to whether the people of Mufumbwe were side-lined, I think that is the perception they wanted to create, which was negative. We will work everywhere and the people of Mufumbwe will forget the suffering because we will empower them.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mumba: Mr Speaker, empowerment programmes are meant to change people’s lives for the better and people are not supposed to remain in the same position. We have many empowerment programmes where we are spending so much money on and that money is ending up in wrong hands because of the unnecessary pilferage, which is currently existing. The Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) is meant to turn around the lives of the vulnerable farmers. Some people are also being empowered through the Social Cash Transfer (SCT) Programme, where as I learnt in my constituency – if you can allow me to bring this point to Her Honour the Vice-President’s attention – that one will be in Ward A of say Lusaka Central Constituency, but will get funds from Kanyama, and there is so much confusion.

Mr Speaker, in order to correct this, when is the Government going to seriously sit down and look at every empowerment programme so that with this money that is being invested, so much of it, it can clearly be seen that people are getting better and the Government is looking at other ways of improving those who are following behind, so that we can completely eradicate the mismatch which the hon. Members of Parliament are talking about and there will be fairness and no pointing of fingers at each other? So, when can Her Honour the Vice-President sit with her team to look at every empowerment programme so that we can find a lasting solution to this?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that concern and I think it is should be a concern for all of us. The word ‘empowerment’ means uplifting a person and making him/her better and stronger economically. However, if we are just going to go round, give out money and it falls into a bottomless pit, it would be because there are no proper programmes and projects. However, the Government will continue implementing the programmes, and we also note that some people are extremely vulnerable and have no capacity, and these get money for survival or any support for improvement. However, I agree with the hon. Member, and as the Government, we have to start looking at how we can co-ordinate these empowerment programmes so that people can get out of poverty because we want people’s livelihoods to change. I will not mention one programme that we are looking at under my office, but how do we put these resources together?

Mr Speaker, as to the people who go and get money, resources or empowerment from another place, that is simply criminality or, indeed, the failure of the system to identify such people because as Zambians, we know where to get empowerment from. Without any co-ordination, it is possible for the same person to go to the Ministry of Small and Medium Enterprise Development, the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestockand elsewhere. I think the hon. Member has a point and we may have to rethink and see how we can structure empowerment programmes not just for women but for the youths or everybody else so that when they are empowered, we can see the lives of such people move from bad to good. That is the intention. As at now, the hon. Member is right. Empowerment programmes are scattered as I said in different ministries, and I do not think there is co-ordination, I do admit, but it is something that we will look at. I thank the hon. Member for bringing that to our attention.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

CONSTRUCTION OF A YOUTH SKILLS TRAINING CENTRE IN MFUWE

PARLIAMENTARY CONSTITUENCY

359. Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North) (on behalf of Ms Mabonga (Mfuwe)) asked the Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts:

     (a)    whether the Government has any plans to construct a youth skills training centre in Mfuwe Parliamentary

              Constituency;

     (b)     if so, when the project will commence; and

     (c)    what the cost of the project is.

The Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts (Mr Nkandu): Mr Speaker, the area Member of Parliament may wish to note that it is the desire of the New Dawn Administration, through the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Arts, to construct and establish at least one youth skills training centre in every district, including Lavushimanda District where Mfuwe Parliamentary Constituency is located.

Mr Speaker, the plans to construct a youth skills training centre in Mfuwe Parliamentary Constituency of Lavushimanda District will be implemented as soon as funds are made available so that we are not also part of the 180 unfulfilled assurances. In this regard, the hon. Member of Parliament may wish to note that the ministry is also engaging co-operating partners in order to mobilise alternative sources of funding for infrastructure development, which includes youth skills training centres.

Mr Speaker, the area Member of Parliament may also wish to note that the estimated cost of constructing a youth skills training centre in a rural district such as Lavushimanda ranges between K5 million to K10 million.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mtayachalo: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has stated that the project will be implemented as soon as funds are made available. When we ask questions, we ask them on behalf of the people in our constituencies and they expect hon. Ministers to give precise answers so that we can build confidence in the voters.

Mr Speaker, Lavushimanda is a very new district. The hon. Minister said that the project will be implemented as soon as funds are made available, but does he have a plan because that is why we have budgets for 2021, 2022 and 2023? Can he be specific? What is important is to hear whether the project will be implemented in 2023 or 2024 because, that way, we will build confidence in the people who elected us as opposed to just saying “as soon as funds are made available”. I feel that we are doing a disservice to this country. Can the hon. Minister be precise because this is a new district which does not have any youth training centre?

Mr Nkandu: Mr Speaker, in my answer, I stated that, we, in the New Dawn Administration, do not want to go down in history as part of those who may not fulfil assurances. It is in this House where we heard that 180 assurances …

Mr Mutelo: 195.

Mr Nkandu: … in fact,195 assurances were not fulfilled. So, I do not want my ministry to be part of the 196 assurances that were given and not fulfilled.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkandu: Mr Speaker, this is a Government that fulfils its promises. This is a Government that had promised free education and it has fulfilled it. It also has restored, as it promised, the rule of law.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkandu: So, I do not want my ministry to go down in the history of this country as having not fulfilled its promise after assuring the people of Mfuwe that it would build them a resource centre. In fact, if the hon. Member of Parliament wants to be so effective in representing the people of Mfuwe, there is some money that we can tap into.

Hon. Government Members: CDF!

Mr Nkandu: If the hon. Member for Mfuwe really wants her people to acquire skills, she knows where she can tap some money from and they can start constructing the resource centre.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mabeta: Mr Speaker, owing to the fact that the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government in its first Budget inherited a debt of US$31 billion, which has made it impossible to provide the necessary services to the Zambian people, how easy is it for the hon. Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts to raise the K5 million to K10 million to build a skills centre in the first Budget?

Mr Nkandu: Mr Speaker, it is just a question of prioritising and we are talking to co-operating partners, as I said earlier. We may not have the money, but we are busy talking to co-operating partners who may come to our aid and the people of Mfuwe may see light at the end of the tunnel. In the 2023 Budget, we will also make sure that we prioritise infrastructure development, especially that the New Dawn Administration has put emphasis on skills development. So, it could be a priority and we are going to look at that.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mutale (Chitambo): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has partially answered my question. All I wanted was a confirmation because I am aware that the Government right now is formulating the Budget. Is the construction ofaskills centre in Mfuwe Constituency one of the projects the ministry will include in its budget, now that there is this question? The hon. Ministerin his answernoted that Mfuwe and Lavushimanda are new districts that need these facilities.

Mr Nkandu: Mr Speaker, in my statement, I did not mention of a new district, and I think that came from the representative for Mfuwe, my colleague from Chama North. However, skills development is a priority of the New Dawn Administration. Obviously, we are looking at not only Mfuwe, but other districts that may not have resource centres. So, the Government will prioritisethe development of resource centres next year. I also said that we talking to co-operating partners who may come on board and assist us to develop this infrastructure.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Anakoka: Mr Speaker, following the call the hon. Minister has just made that hon. Members should take a proactive approach to the issue of youth resource centres or skills training centres, the people of Luena through the Constituency Development Fund (CDF)will later this year construct a youth training centre in conjunction with the Limulunga District Disability Association. Will the Government commit to adopt the centre to provide the necessary skills in terms of facilitators once it is constructed in order to have the first ever training centre in Luena Constituency?

Mr Nkandu: Mr Speaker, the question has been expanded; we are talking about Mfuwe. However, yes, we are going to make sure that we adopt that resource centre,after all,weare prioritising skills development. So, I commit that we are going to sit down with our colleagues from the Ministry of Technology and Science to see how best we can work together and give technical support.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Nyambose (Chasefu): Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for that well-articulated answer.

Mr Speaker, the importance of youth skills development centres under the New Dawn Administration cannot be over emphasised and the hon. Minister has well-articulated that. My question is: Has the Government evaluated the performance of the already existing youth skills development centres before it embarks on constructing new ones and is it satisfied with their performance?

Mr Nkandu: Mr Speaker, the objective of resource centres, first and foremost, is to train the youths to attain informal and formal employment. Talking about formal and informal employment, I went round the country to lookat resource centres, and, yes, there are some short comings.However, overall, those that are operational are not doing extremely well but very well. Therefore, the ministry is trying to find a way in which it can make them provide skills tomany people, not necessarily those in the respective constituencies but districts, and it wants to make sure thatthere is one skills training centre in every district. This is the more reason the Government has introduced what it is calling the Graduate Empowerment Programme, where it is giving out equipment to those who graduate. So, to answer the question, yes, some skills training centres are doing fine while others may not be doing fine because of the lack of equipment, and the Government is looking at this situation to see how best it can improve it.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Mr Speaker, the response by the hon. Minister indicated that the cost of constructing a skills training centre ranges from K5 million to K10 million, and I think that is the figure that has been referred to in the statement.

Mr Speaker, does the answer imply that there is no actual cost that has been arrived at for purposes of responding to the question by the hon. Member of Parliament for Mfuwe? This is because you cannot have a range of prices and there must be a standard price and standard design for a skills training centre. So, my question is:Does the answer imply that there is no price that has been arrived at for the skills training centre?

Mr Second Deputy Speaker:Hon. Minister,provide clarity because, maybe,the variation arises from designs. Provide clarity as regards to the issue of pricing.

Mr Nkandu: Mr Speaker, I think I was clearwhen I saidthat the estimated cost of constructing a youth skills training centre in a rural district is between K5 million to K10 million. Some materials may not be found in some rural districts and the contractor may need to get those materials from somewhere. So,inthose districts that may have such materials, it may cost K5 million. However, in districts that may not have the materials, the contractor may need to get those materials from other districts or provinces, and that is why I said that the estimated cost of constructing a skills training centre is between the range of K5 million and K10 million, which is very clear.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.  

Mr Menyani Zulu (Nyimba): Mr Speaker, Mfuwe being a new district does not have enough infrastructure, especially in terms of skills training centres, and that is why our colleague who is sick asked when the Government will construct one.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said we know where to get the money from and all of us know that he meant the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). The Ministry of Education and the Ministry of Health have come up with a standard plan on how to construct clinics, health facilities and schools, and it has been sent to all constituencies. Is the hon. Minister in a position to tell us if he has come up with such a standard plan the way his colleagues have done so that it can be duplicated in other districts like Lavushimanda? That way, we will know the standard cost of constructing a training school.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

Businesswas suspended from 1640 hours until 1700 hours.

[MR SECOND DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Nkandu: Mr Speaker, my answer to the question is, yes, we have talked to our colleagues in the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development and they will give us the required standards. For now, we may not construct any centres, but I believe that by the time we start constructing, we will have the standard prototype. Hon. Members have seen the variation of the figures between K5 million and K10 million because we did not have a standard building. From now on, we are going to make sure that we standardise the building of resource centres.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

REHABILITATION OF BRIDGES IN MILENGE DISTRICT

360. Mr Chonde (Milenge) asked the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development:

    (a)    whether the Government has any plans to urgently rehabilitate the following bridges in Milenge District, to

             prevent schools and health facilities from being cut off from the rest of the district during the rainy season:

1. Chiswishi;
2. Lwela; and
3. Chabuka Baushi; and 

    (b)    if so, when rehabilitation works will commence.

The Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi): Mr Speaker, the Government has plans to rehabilitate the following bridges in Milenge District:

    (a)   Chiswishi;

    (b)   Lwela; and

    (c)   Chabuka Baushi.

Sir, for each of these bridges, the Government has done the following:

   (a)   Chiswishi Bridge – The Government has procured a contractor to install an acrow bridge and the works will

          commence once funds are secured;

   (b)    Lwela Bridge – The Government has procured a contractor to construct a three-span concrete bridge and the

           works will commence once funds have been secured; and

  (c)   Chabuka Baushi – The Government, through the Road Development Agency (RDA), has scheduled to

         conduct an assessment of the bridge to ascertain the required intervention before the end of the third quarter of

         2022. Further, the commencement of the required works will be upon securing of funds.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chonde: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for his elaborate answer. I am a little bit concerned with his answer regarding Lwela and Chiswishi bridges or the three bridges. Earlier this year, I had an engagement with the hon. Minister and I told him that one of these bridges is an emergency. We were only saved by the change of season to the dry season, and that is how come we are using that bridge, but the hon. Minister’s answer lacks a clear timeframe on when this will be addressed, yet this is already an emergency. With the immediate onset of the rains, this bridge will no longer be called a bridge. It will be submerged. Is there a timeframe that the hon. Minister can take into consideration? We are just appealing to him because the road is an emergency and there is disruption of service. I can go on and on but, last week, we lost an expectant mother because of the delays. A 75 km stretch takes an ambulance four hours to cover. In an emergency, four hours could not be treated as an emergency. So, this is the situation we are in. Now my question to the hon. Minister is: Is he able to trigger some sort of emergency attention to this area, so that the rest of the services can then be given to the people of Milenge?

Eng. Milupi: Mr Speaker, I truly sympathise with the communities serviced by theses bridges. The dichotomy that we have is the lack of funds to carry out sometimes even basic infrastructure construction such as the ones that have been tabulated here.

Mr Speaker, with respect to the Chiswishi Bridge, as I explained earlier, it is earmarked for an acrow bridge, but, maybe, let me give the hon. Member for Milenge, Mr Chonde, more information.

Mr Speaker, the contract for the construction of the sub-structures and assembly of the prefabricated steel of acrow panel bridges in Luapula Province, which is Lot 2, was awarded to Jamcho Trading Limited at a contract sum of K25,073,060.42, which includes the Value Added Tax (VAT). The contract involved the construction of two bridges, one on the Chiswishi crossing and the other on the first bridge crossing on the Chembe/Matanda Road. The construction of the Lwela Bridge was awarded to Tomorrow Investments Limited on 27^th December, 2017, at a contract sum of K28,703,257.30, that is VAT inclusive, with a project duration of twelve months. However, the commencement of works has been affected by funding challenges.

Mr Speaker, let me now go into details because the hon. Member is asking whether the Government cannot treat this as an emergency and, therefore, find funds. This is where the issue is. What I can say to the hon. Member for Milenge is that in dealing with this issue, which is a common problem throughout our constituencies and other hon. Members of Parliament have engaged us, we have to recognise that the steel prefabricated bridges are already here. In fact, they are at the RDA site in Lusaka West.

Mr Speaker, the issue is the component of money that is required to undertake the sub-assemblies, in other words the civil works that are required so that the bridge can then be moved to the site. Our engagement with other hon. Members of Parliament is recognising that the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) – I am sorry I have to mention the CDF because I think it appears as if we are throwing everything to the CDF, but when we are dealing with emergencies, an emergency is an emergency. So, other hon. Members of Parliament have agreed to utilise part of the CDF to undertake the sub-assemblies. What we have said at the ministry, through the RDA, is when we reach that kind of engagement, then, the RDA will find funds to move the bridges from Lusaka to the site and undertake the installation of the bridge on the selected site but it requires a co-operative effort between the constituency, through the hon. Member of Parliament through the CDF, and ourselves. So, this is one possible way.

The other way, Mr Speaker, is obviously to wait until we have resources. I get questions when we say ‘when funds will be available’. The hon. Minister for Youth, Sports and Arts was very specific about the need for the Government not to say things that will not happen because that goes against our procedures here on Government assurances. When will funds be made available? I think to answer that question, we have to understand that it is the responsibility of Parliament, among other duties, to carry out what we call appropriate. Appropriation is when we pass the Budget here. So, when a Supplementary Budget is brought and we, as hon. Members of Parliament, pass that budget, that is when funds are made available.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Daka (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for that elaborate response to the question by Hon. Chonde.

Mr Speaker, it is very apparent that in the scenario in which we are, we have challenges in sourcing for funds for most of these structures. The hon. Minister has already mentioned that this is a common problem countrywide, and even in my constituency, Chadiza, we face many challenges in terms of crossings. In view of the situation in which we have found ourselves, has the hon. Minister sat down to consider timber as a construction material in contrast to these other expensive construction materials because it is very apparent that it is the issue of cost? In many countries where I have been, I have seen timber bridges, especially for small scale kind of crossings. So, in that vein, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister if a team of experts from the ministry have explored timber to be an option to other conventional construction materials.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Chadiza for that question.

Mr Speaker, yes, indeed, everything gets considered, but it depends on the site. Some sites make themselves amenable to the use of construction materials like timber. For example, in Mafinga, from Mafinga to Muyombe, I think, there is a crossing at a point called Kambemba where the bridge stopped functioning and we have had to intervene by using timber but that is because there was already a steel frame, and we were able to put that timber on top of the steel frame. Otherwise, if there is no bridge at all, whether you use timber, you have to undertake the substructure on which to put the timber and it goes back to the requirement for funds. So, yes, we do consider timber but it is dependent upon the sites.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Ngowani (Mpongwe): Mr Speaker, is there guidance from the ministry in terms of designs and specifications for these bridges so that once they are rehabilitated, they can stand the test of time?

Eng. Milupi: Mr Speaker, yes, indeed, for any site in Zambia that requires a bridge, we engage the RDA for standard designs. With respect to the acrow bridges, the designs were already done because these bridges are site specific. You cannot move what was planned for a particular site in Luapula to Zambezi or Zambezi West. Each one of those prefabricated bridges was designed for a specific site. For other bridges, we can come up with a design but you cannot have a standard design. Each design has to be specific to each crossing point. A bridge on the Luangwa River cannot have the same design as a bridge on the Lunga River in Mwinilunga.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kang’ombe: Mr Speaker –

Mr J. E. Banda: On point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr J. E. Banda: Mr Speaker, thank you for giving the good people of Petauke this opportunity to raise a point of order on the hon. Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts. Is the hon. Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts in order to be seated here instead of going to motivate the Zambia National Team which is playing right now?

I seek your serious ruling,Mr Speaker.

Laughter

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: I think that was on a lighter note.

Laughter

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: May the hon. Member for Kamfinsa continue.

Mr Kang’ombe: Mr Speaker, the question from the hon. Member for Milenge relates to three bridges and his fear, which I believe is the fear of the residents of Milenge, is that when the rainy season starts, connectivity will be affected. We are now in July, and in the next three months, the rainy season will start. Is the hon. Minister able to assure the people of Milenge that between now and the rainy season, corrective measures will be put in place in the short term or that a solution will be provided to ensure that there is some form of connectivity on these three bridges?

Mr Munir Zulu: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Before the hon. Minister comes on board, a point of order is raised by the hon. Member for Lumezi.

Mr Munir Zulu: Mr Speaker, mine is a point of procedure. In my hands, I have a ruling that was delivered on the Floor of this House on Thursday 25^th October, 2018. This ruling gives a background on how questions are processed here at Parliament.

Mr Speaker, this question that is being responded to was brought to the House last year and it has only been attended to today. What criterion is being used for questions to be included on the Order Paper? In this ruling, the hon. Member had asked the House if at all we should stop bringing questions because they are not being processed in good time. Having said that, I will lay this document on the Table of the House for your consideration. Questions are taking very long to be brought on the Floor of the House.

Mr Munir Zulu laid the paper on the Table.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Thank you so much hon. Member for your observation. Definitely, you are not out of order to ask that question, but we will engage the relevant people to try to speed up the processing of questions.

May the hon. Member for Kamfinsa continue.

Ms Sefulo: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Ms Sefulo: Mr Speaker,thank you so much for according the people of Mwandi an opportunity to rise this very serious point of order on the Leader of Government Business in the House, Her Honour the Vice-President.

Mr Speaker,it has just been brought to my attention that, today, some members of the Patriotic Front (PF) went to the former President’s house, and whilst addressing a crowd, the Former President said – and this is in reference to Chapter 15, Section 5 (1)(b) of the Laws of Zambia, on the benefits of former Presidents – that:

“I am so ready, even they say I am hiding behind the immunity, I am not going to hide –

Let me skip that part, but he said that:

“I am still politically active although not in leadership, but I can still give an opinion”.

Mr Speaker, according to Chapter 15 of the Laws of Zambia, a former President still in active politics, ceases to receive benefits.

Hon. Opposition Member: In what context did the former President say that?

Ms Sefulo: Mr Speaker, I also want to refer the House to the precedent that was set on the former President, the late Mr Titus Jacob Chiluba. When he reappeared in politics, his benefits were withheld and that included security, state property, and all the benefits that accrue to a former President. Therefore, is the Leader of Government Business in the House, who is the Vice-President, in order to remain quiet about this serious constitutional breach?

Hon. Government Members: hear, hear!

Hon. Member: Question!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, the issue you have raised of the former President’s emoluments is a matter of law. Therefore, it is not within the powers or determination or jurisdiction of the House to determine whether the former President is eligible or not.

May thehon. Member for Kamfinsa, continue.

Mr Kang’ombe: Mr Speaker, I had asked a question directed at the hon. Minister in charge of infrastructure. The rainy season will be starting in the next three months and I wanted the hon. Minister to assure the people of Milenge if steps have been put in place to guarantee connectivity to the health facility and the schools that have been highlighted. I think the question was very specific.

Eng. Milupi: Mr Speaker, I think Hon. Christopher Kang’ombe, the Member of Parliament for Kamfinsa, was seeking an assurance for me to assure the people of Milenge that they will have bridges by the time we have the rainy season.

Mr Speaker, the need for bridges or crossing points throughout the country is immense. Many places get threatened with being cut off. In his own particular situation in Kamfinsa Constituency, there is Katokamema, which he raised the other time, which also needs to be sorted out. So, being aware of what the resource envelope is, it is always very difficult to say what we are going to do and so on and so forth. Be that as it may, the Government is concerned about the possibilities of certain communities being cut off. That is why already, I have had consultations with the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning and we have agreed to develop a small assessment of crossing points that might result in the community being cut off as a result of the rainy season so that we can see what can be done. So, the concern about these crossing points is not just for hon. Members on the other side, it is much more so the concern of the New Dawn Administration.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

RESULTS OF OIL SAMPLES COLLECTED FROM CHISANGA AREA

361. Mr Simuzingiliasked the Minister of Mines and Minerals Development:

       (a)  whether the results of the oil samples collected from Chisanga area in Chief Chipepo’s area in Gwembe

              District in 2019 are ready;

      (b)   if so, what the results are;

      (c)   what other areas, countrywide, had oil exploration undertaken in the past; and

     (d)   what the status of these explorations, are.

The Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Mr Kabuswe):Mr Speaker, there seems to be a difference with the question number I have and what has been mentioned. I hope it is the correct question because what I have is Order Book No. 582, but the response is on Gwembe.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: You can go ahead.

Mr Kabuswe:Mr Speaker, the results of the oil samples collected from Chisanga area in Chief Chipepo’s Chiefdom in Gwembe District in 2019 are actually ready.

Mr Speaker, the results of the oil samples collected from Chisanga area in Chief Chipepo’s Chiefdom in Gwembe District in 2019 tested negative for hydrocarbons, which is oil.

Mr Speaker, other areas countrywide that had oil exploration undertaken in the past are Luangwa and Zambezi valley areas.

Mr Speaker, the status of the explorations undertaken in Luangwa and Zambezi valley areas in the past, were unsuccessful.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Sialubalo: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister is aware that Gwembe and Sinazongwe are a hub for coal. He knows that there is so much coal in Gwembe and that low-grade coal can be turned into diesel, which is giving us headaches in the country, and giving the Government many economic shocks. If an investor went to Gwembe and wanted to invest in this low-grade coal with the view of processing diesel, would he be welcome?

Mr Kabuswe: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for Sinazongwe for that question.

Mr Speaker, all the areas around Sinazongwe and Gwembe have been blocked, in terms of giving numbers to whoever comes to explore. If we had such an offer, or if somebody is available, we are ready. The ministry has put exploration as one of the major targets it wants to achieve so that we are able to know the exact mineralisation of our country.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

CONSTRUCTION OF A MORTUARY IN KANCHIBIYA DISTRICT

362. Mr Wamunyima (Nalolo) (on behalf of Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya)) asked the Minister of Health:

        (a)          whether the Government has any plans to construct a mortuary in Kanchibiya District; 

        (b)          if so, when the plans will be implemented; and

        (c)          at which health facility the mortuary will be constructed.

The Minister of Health (Mrs Masebo): Mr Speaker, the Government has plans to construct mortuaries across the country of course in a phased way and based on the availability of resources, and particularly in Kanchibiya District. It is hoped that the plans will be implemented in the 2023 Infrastructure Planning Budget.

Mr Speaker, the locations of the proposed construction of the mortuary will be planned at Chalabesa District Hospital and Mpepo Rural Health Centre. Additionally, the House may wish to note that the construction of health posts and staff housing in Kanchibiya Resettlement, Chibwa, Chakopa and Kapumfi was completed and they are currently operational, except for Nchubula which will be completed, hopefully, in the next sixty days.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Munir Zulu (Lumezi): Mr Speaker, in her response, the hon. Minister talked of the construction of the mortuary and that it is the Government’s wish and position to construct mortuaries throughout the country. Knowing very well that these mortuaries are normally manufactured outside the country, are we bringing in new specifications because we are dealing with refrigerated mortuaries that we have been using and procuring for our constituencies? I seek clarity on that particular question.

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, there are two things here. First of all, in terms of policy, it is our desire to construct mortuaries across the country, but as I said, that depends on the resource envelope.

Mr Speaker, the second part of the hon. Member’s question was on the type of mortuary. I note that, currently, there are two types of mortuaries being used. Over time, our people have discovered that we can construct or build mortuaries less expensively without necessarily having to import or rather have highly technical kind of mortuaries which look like a casket. I noted, for example, in the Copperbelt that the kind of mortuary that was being constructed is more like a freezer for butcheries so that you do not have to put a body in the individual casket or basket kind of compartment.

Mr Speaker, during the first wave of the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) where we saw many people die, we had challenges with that kind of mortuary. Arising from that, lessons were learnt and the kind of mortuaries people are now putting up are those where you can put many bodies at the same time. Going forward, different types of mortuaries will be constructed. I also note that a number of districts have decided to use their Constituency Development Fund (CDF) to put up mortuaries. So, all I can say is that we are considering different models of mortuaries, especially considering the area. There is no electricity in some areas so we will use different forms of electricity. Those are some of the issues that will inform the decision of the kind of mortuary to build.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kang’ombe: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Health has responded to the issue pertaining to the mortuary and I am sure she is aware that at every station with a mortuary, there is a requirement for a doctor to certify that the person brought in is actually dead. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister if further to the assurance of a mortuary to be built in Kanchibiya, there is also an assurance of providing a medical doctor who will be able to certify the bodies brought into the mortuary?

Mrs Masebo:Mr Speaker, the issue of human resource in health is a matter that is receiving serious attention from the Government, but it is important to say thatit is not a matter that we can resolvein one budget circle. This is why, if you recall, I alluded to the fact that we are employing this year. We shall continue to employ next year and, hopefully, the other year.

Mr Speaker, the issue of pathologists in the country is also a challenge.We do not have many pathologists in the country, butthis is something we looking at and hopefully going forward,we will see an increase in the number of health workers. The issue of having key skills which are critical to providing a better service will be addressed in the near future. So, Ido not want to give a definite assurance except to say that this year as we employ,one of the things we are trying to achieve is to make sure that there is a qualified doctor in every district in Zambia.This is something we want to achieve and we are working towards. However, out of the 11,276 who will be employed this year,we will make sure that atprovincial, district and constituency levels or wherever the need is,there are qualified doctors, nurses andpharmacists because there are certain critical positions that are really critical for a better service.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister suggested that the people of Kanchibiya can use theConstituency Development Fund (CDF) to construct a mortuary. How much would it cost the people of Kanchibiya, if they had to use the CDF, to construct the cheapest model of a mortuary that the hon. Minister indicated?

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, I am sorry that I am not prepared to answer that kind of question but, maybe, tomorrow, I can bring the answer so that hon. Members canknow.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker:On that issue, hon. Members are asking if there is a uniform price, but I do not think that is possible to some extent because buildings varyin terms of the area the construction site is. Mufumbwe will have its own price and it may be easy to source for materials in Livingstone, so, it may also have its own price. However, the hon. Minister should tomorrow bring the cost price, as shestated.

Mr Wamunyima: Mr Speaker, for your information, the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development has approved, through the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) application, the construction of a mortuary at Copper Mini Hospital in Kanchibiya.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that the Government has plans to construct mortuaries in a phased approach in the whole country and she mentioned that in Kanchibiya, it will be implemented in the year 2023.For clarity’s sake, which health post will thisbe?

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that follow-up question.

Mr Speaker, the locations of the proposed construction of the mortuaries willbe planned at Chalabesa District Hospital and Mpepo Rural Health Centre.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

CONSTRUCTION OF ACROW BRIDGES IN MUFUMBWE PARLIAMENTARY

CONSTITUENCY

363. Mr Kamondo asked the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development:

      (a) when the construction of acrow bridges at the following crossing points in Mufumbwe Parliamentary

          Constituency will commence:

1.  Musonweji;
2. Dongwe; and
3. Miluji; and

     (b)   what the cause of the delay in commencing the project is.

Eng. Milupi: Mr Speaker, the construction of acrow bridges on Musonweji, Dongwe and Miluji crossing points in Mufumbwe Parliamentary Constituency will be undertaken once funds are secured for the implementation of the Acrow Bridge Project. The delay in commencing the project has been due to financial constraints.

Mr Speaker, the Musonweji, Dongwe and Miluji bridges are all included in one contract which contains a total of ten bridges. The contract was awarded to Messrs. GNM Project Limited at a sum of K80,064,980.90. The contract is yet to be signed as it is pending confirmation of the availability of funds and this is applicable to all those who have acrow bridges in their constituencies.

Mr Speaker, the Government procured acrow bridges components for 131 bridges via a loan at a sum of US$73,776,849 from Exim Bank United States of America. US$56,776,849 from the loan amount was the cost of the bridge components, while US$17 million from the loan amount was allocated towards civil works and was to be accessed through reimbursement upon the Government of the Republic of Zambia incurring the cost. The Government of the Republic of Zambia was to finance the civil works and then get reimbursed up to US$17 million of the cost of the civil works. However, due to fiscal constraints, the Government has not adequately been able to finance the civil works for the programme totalling up to US$17 million, which under the original scheme was supposed to be reimbursed from this total loan amount.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Katakwe (Solwezi East): Mr Speaker, thank you very much for giving the people of Solwezi East, Mushindamo District, the chance to ask a follow-up question.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister stated that the Government procured so many bridges.  Is he able to come to this august House and give a summary of how many constituencies benefited from this gesture that was given so that not only the people of Mufumbwe but also the people of Solwezi East, Mushindamo District, can know that, indeed, bridges were procured and, alas, they never had any share?

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: I do not know if off-the-cuff the hon. Minister will be able to give an elaborate answer to that question.

Hon. Minister, maybe, you can indicate when you will be able to gather enough data and respond effectively to that effect.

Eng. Milupi: Mr Speaker, I think I can give a modicum of information. As I have stated, these bridges were 131 and out of the ten provinces of Zambia, only six provinces were allocated bridges. In some constituencies, as many as eleven or fifteen bridges were allocated. Out of all these bridges, only one, I think in the Eastern Province, was installed. It is currently installed. The rest were not installed due to the issues that I described earlier, but the provinces that were left out were the Western, Southern, Copperbelt and Lusaka. The rest of the provinces were allocated these bridges. However, as to the need for information on the specific number of the constituencies that were allocated, if that information is required, I can definitely bring it very quickly because we have that information in our database. Even as early as Friday, we can bring it.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speakergave the Floor toMr Kang’ombe.

Mr Kang’ombewas not in the House.

Mr Kamondo: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the elaborate answer that he has given. When the hon. Minister was responding to the question asked by the hon. Member for Milenge, he mentioned that in some cases, hon. Members of Parliament from this House have also provided a solution by suggesting that they would make use of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). However, the amount of money that has been mentioned for the bridges in Mufumbwe, I stand to be corrected, is K80 million or so.

Mr Speaker, does the hon. Minister have the quotations for the other bridges for which we may use the CDF, so that we can start that process to enable our farmers to take their farm produce to the market? Is he able to mention some areas or will he come to this august House to give the cost of a number of certain projects which may be within the CDF allocation?

Eng. Milupi: Mr Speaker, as I said, the acrow prefabricated bridges are site specific. They were designed for specific sites. So, you cannot have a standard cost because it depends on the width of the river and the type of soils around that site. The hon. Member and, indeed, any other hon. Member who was allocated these acrow bridges, is welcome to approach the RDA. They can get detailed designs for their sites, and from those designs, the cost for the sub-assemblies. I think that is what the critical point is. The sub-assemblies can be determined, so that they can make an informed decision as to whether they can get part of the CDF.

Mr Speaker, I can tell the hon. Member for Mufumbwe that one of the hon. Members of Parliament from the North-Western Province, specifically the hon. Member for Zambezi West, is already engaging with the RDA to do exactly that, so that the sub-assemblies for a few of those bridges that he has been allocated can be facilitated through the CDF. I am sure for these three bridges, something similar can be done in Mufumbwe Constituency.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

UPGRADING OF INFORMAL SETTLEMENTS IN KAMFINSAPARLIAMENTARY    CONSTITUENCY

364. Mr Kang’ombeasked the Minister of Local Government and Rural Development:

     (a)   whether the Government has any plans to upgrade the following informal settlements in Kamfinsa

           Parliamentary Constituency:

1. Mulenga Compound;
2. Chankalamo Compound;
3. Zambia Compound; and
4. Old Section of Zamtan;

     (b)  if so, when the plans will be implemented.

     (c)  what the estimated cost of the exercise is; and

     (d)  what the estimated timeframe for the completion of the exercise is.

The Minister of Local Government and Rural Development (Mr Nkombo): Mr Speaker, the Government, indeed, has plans to upgrade all informal settlements in Kamfinsa Parliamentary Constituency as provided for under the Urban and Regional Planning Act No. 3 of 2015 and this applies to the entire country.

Mr Speaker, the implementation of upgrading programmes has already started and is being done in a phased manner. The upgrading of Mulenga Compound has commenced. The Nkana Water and Sewerage Company is working on water reticulation, electricity is being provided by ZESCO Limited, while access roads have been opened by the council and the Land Titling Project under the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources is underway. In Zambia Compound, Chankalamo Compound and Old Section of Zamtan, head counts to indicate the number of settlers on particular parcels of land have been conducted. The local authority is proceeding with the issuance of temporary occupancy licenses and plans to open up roads are underway.

Mr Speaker, the upgrading of the project is multi-sectoral and budgets for the various works are given by each service provider, hence there is no fixed budget.

Mr Speaker, the timeframe for the completion of this programme is dependent upon the availability of resources. The upgrading of informal settlements is a continuous process as there are a number of services that are required to be provided.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kang’ombe: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development for providing those responses. As the hon. Minister might be aware, once an upgrading exercise is undertaken, it deals with healthcare facilities, roads, better sanitation and it basically deals with quite a number of issues affecting the people. From his responses, the hon. Minister has indicated that there is no budget that has been attached to any specific activity because these are crosscutting issues that have no fixed budget.

Mr Speaker, my question directed at the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development is: Does the ministry intend to create a fund from where funds can be drawn to undertake some of these specific activities in terms of order of priority? Is the ministry intending to create a fund for possibly social housing development or for purposes of upgrading these unplanned settlements?

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, the answer is no.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Munir Zulu: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister in his submission said that there is no fixed budget. Is there a reason there is no fixed budget because even as a country, we know that we run on a fixed budget?

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, in my earlier response at (a), I indicated that the Government has plans to upgrade all informal settlements in Kamfinsa Parliamentary Constituency, and these are plans, as provided for under the Urban and Regional Planning Act No. 3 of 2015, and this applies to the whole country. This country has many unplanned settlements and since this is within the function of my ministry, as and when funds are made available, we can then factor those in the budget for upgrading.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kang’ombe: Mr Speaker, I appreciate the short response from the hon. Minister relating to the issue of the fund. If the ministry is not going to create a fund, does he not think that the process of upgrading these unplanned settlements will take longer than he would want those works to be undertaken considering that in the absence of a fund for upgrading, it means that the works will not be implemented on time?

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, we could be very desirous of creating that fund, but what would be the purpose of creating a fund that has empty coffers. Right now in this country, we know that we are grappling with very limited fiscal space for all Government programmes, including debt service. Our Government is prioritising these challenges that we have, according to what we deem to be the priorities. Right now, creating an empty fund is not on the card.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

REHABILITATION OF TOWNSHIP ROADS IN SIAVONGA DISTRICT

365. Mr Mulunda (Siavonga) asked the Minister of Local Government and Rural Development:

       (a)  when the rehabilitation of township roads in Siavonga District will commence; and

       (b)  what the cause of the delay in commencing the project is.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, the Government is in the process of formulating a ten-year road sector implementation plan that will guide when projects shall commence and be implemented. The House will be informed accordingly once this plan is finalised.

Mr Speaker, the cause of the delay in commencing the rehabilitation works of the township roads in Siavonga has been due to budgetary constraints.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

CONSTRUCTION OF OFFICES FOR THE DEPARTMENT OFIMMIGRATION IN CHITAMBO DISTRICT

366. Mr Mutale asked the Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security:

       (a)   whether the Government has any plans to construct offices for the Department of Immigration in Chitambo

              District; and

      (b)   if so, when the plans will be implemented.

The Minister of Justice (Mr Haimbe, SC.) (on behalf ofthe Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security (Mr Mwiimbu)):Mr Speaker, the Government has plans to construct offices for the Department of Immigration in Chitambo District.

Mr Speaker, the plans to construct the offices for the Department of Immigration will be implemented when the ongoing infrastructure projects at 80 per cent and above are completed and when funds are made available.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mutale: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister might wish to note that part of Chitambo Constituency shares a border with the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC) and this border is an open border, so to say. Many things happen there and vehicles and household goods are stolen and taken to the DRC through this porous border. Now that the hon. Minister has said the offices will be constructed when funds are made available, I know that that statement gives no real answer. What is the hon. Minister going to do to ensure that the immigrants coming to Zambia to steal from the people of Zambia and go scot-free are checked in the meantime, while the Government looks at how to secure funds for the construction of offices for the Department of Immigration in Chitambo?

Mr Haimbe, SC.: Mr Speaker, it is unfortunate that despite providing an answer, the hon. Member still takes the view that the answer is neither here nor there. What is of significance is that plans are in place. The question that was put forward was therefore answered in the affirmative. I think the hon. Member should take something from that.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Member went on to ask about matters to do with the general security of the nation. I am sure the hon. Member is well aware that building an office for immigration does not address questions of the wellbeing, welfare or, indeed, the security of the country. That is a matter that is dealt with from a multi-sectoral perspective with the hon. Minister of Defence and his officers and, indeed, the Zambia Police Service. The security of the nation is not dependent on whether we have an office, in Chitambo, for the Department of Immigration. It is a larger issue. I think the hon. Member is aware that we do take matters of state security very seriously. So, the answer to his question in short is that state security matters are being addressed even while we look at infrastructural challenges in relation to the offices of the Department of Immigration in Chitambo and elsewhere.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Munir Zulu: Thank you kind, Mr Speaker, for permitting me to ask a follow-up question.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister’s response is the most common and dominate response in this House. ‘When resources are available’ is the most common response we tend to get. Can the hon. Minister clarify if resources will be available this year, next year or, maybe, in 2026?

Mr Haimbe, SC.: Mr Speaker, with due respect, the hon. Member for Lumezi ought to ask that question in the next budget cycle. That is why we have budget cycles in this House, and hon. Members get an opportunity to check the votes and see whether they deal with the various issues as to where there may be needs and gaps. I am sure the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning who is more than capable will be ready to answer the question at the material time.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Member should also remember that you cannot deal with matters in a vacuum. The hon. Member does not seem when asking his question, to remember that we are coming from a situation in which the coffers of this country ran dry on wrong priorities altogether. We cannot, today, bury our heads in the sand and pretend that money will pop up from nowhere. We are well aware of the efforts that are being put by all of us as Zambians to improve our lot. At alater time, we will have money to build and prioritise the right things. Right now, we are fixing the mess that others made.

I thank you, Mr Speaker

Mr Mutale: Mr Speaker, I am not going to sensationalise my question and I give so much respect to national matters, especially when it comes to security. I am the Member of Parliament for Chitambo and I know what I am talking about. If the hon. Minister has never moved, he cango to Chitambo and I will take him to an island called Reuben Island,so he can see what is happening there. So, my question is timely and I expected an answer which is profound, so that the people of Chitambo can be assured that the theft happening there, shall stop immediately.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has told me and the people of Chitambo that when resources are made available, that is when the Government shall consider establishing an office for the Department of Immigration in Chitambo. I am aware that once an office is established for the Department of Immigration in Chitambo, it will mean that a full set of officers will go there to help provide security even on the island I am taking about. The hon. Minister’s answer is in perpetuity. What consolation does he have for the people of Chitambo, not the answer he gave me that security issues are being addressed every day? Can he give the people of Chitambo a consolinganswer that they will take home to say, yes, this matter is going tobe addressed? There are so manyimmigrants on the island who come and go without being checked.

Mr Haimbe, SC.: Mr Speaker, it is interesting that the hon. Member spoke specifically about whether I move around or not, and he metamorphosed his question and talked about a specific island in Chitambo and soon and so forth. Perhaps, what the hon. Member should realise is that we are discussing national issues and not necessarily whether I have travelled or the substantive hon.Minister has travelled to the Reuben Island, or as the case maybe. We respect every part of this country and we want to ensure it is safe and secured.

Mr Speaker, the question that was put forward initially has been answered in no uncertain terms, in a very clear fashion that it is in scope. The hon. Member cannot draw blood from a stone, especially when he had the opportunity to make all these facilities available for the people of Chitambo when he was in the Ruling Party. Now, we are saying we are positive and we are going to deal with it and the hon. Member must accept that it shall be done. All those other matters that he has raised are sufficient additional information, which I am sure the substantive hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security has taken note of and any part of Zambia will be protected. So, I thank the hon. Member for that information; we are acting.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

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BILL

REPORT STAGE

THE BANK OF ZAMBIA BILL, 2022

Report adopted.

Third Reading on Wednesday, 13^thJuly, 2022.

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MOTION

ADJOURNMENT

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

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The House adjourned at 1816 hours until1430 hours on Wednesday, 13^thJuly, 2022.

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