Friday, 1st July, 2022

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    Friday, 1stJuly, 2022

The House met at 0900 hours

[MADAMSPEAKER in the Chair]






Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to inform the House that the National Heart Hospital has been authorised to conduct basic health check-ups and provide information on cardiovascular diseases (CVDs) to hon. Members of Parliament and staff.

The purpose of the exercise is to detect risk factors associated with CVDs, which account for most non-communicable disease (NCD) deaths, globally. The exercise will take place on Thursday, 14th July, 2022, here, at Parliament Buildings, Main Reception Area, from 0900 hours to 1700 hours. All hon. Members of Parliament are encouraged to find time to visit the health personnel and access vital information on CVDs.

Thank you.


Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to inform the House that the President of the Republic of Italy, His Excellency, Mr Sergio Mattarella, will visit Zambia from Wednesday, 6th to Friday, 8th July, 2022.

During the visit, His Excellency, Mr Sergio Mattarella, will address the House on Thursday, 7th July, 2022. 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Following the address, Her Honour the Vice-President will move a Motion to place on record the Thanks of the House to His Excellency, Mr Sergio Mattarella, on the occasion of his special address to the Assembly. The Motion will be moved and concluded on Friday, 8th July, 2022.

In this regard, all hon. Members of Parliament, who are fully vaccinated against the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) will, on this day, sit in the Chamber. Those who are not will participate from designated rooms, here at Parliament Buildings.

Thank you.



The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, I rise to give the House an indication of the business it will consider next week.

Madam Speaker, on Wednesday, 6th July, 2022, the Business of the House will start with Questions for Oral Answer, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will consider a Private Member’s Motion entitled: “Facilitate Establishment of an Agricultural Bank”, to be moved by Mr F. Kapyanga, hon. Member of Parliament for Mpika Constituency. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. The House will then, debate the Motion to adopt the Report of the Committee on Delegated Legislation. Thereafter, the House will consider the Committee Stage of the Bank of Zambia Bill, N.A.B. No. of2022.

Madam, on Thursday, 7th July, 2022, the Business of the House will start with a special address by His Excellency, Mr Sergio Mattarella, President of the Republic of Italy. This will be followed by Questions for Oral Answer, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will consider presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. 

Madam Speaker, on Friday, 8th July, 2022, the Business of the House will commence with the Vice-President’s Question Time. Thereafter, the House will consider Questions for Oral Answer, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Then, the House will commence debate on the Motion of Thanks to the Special Address by His Excellency, Mr Sergio Mattarella, President of the Republic of Italy.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.




Mr Mtayachalo: On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, thank you for according me this opportunity to raise a matter of urgent public importance. The matter I wish to raise is directed at the hon. Minister of Energy.

Madam Speaker, ZESCO Limited and Copperbelt Energy Corporation (CEC) recently signed a power supply agreement following the expiry of the old power supply agreement. The CEC supplies power to the mining industry, which is the lifeblood of the Zambian economy. More importantly, mining accounts for more than 70 per cent of our foreign exchange earnings.

Madam Speaker, the old Bulk Supply Agreement (BSA) between ZESCO Limited and the CEC raised several concerns from stakeholders, including members of the general public. This is because one did not need to be a rocket scientist to tell that that power agreement disadvantaged ZESCO Limited in many ways, at the expense of residential and other electricity consumers. The CEC was buying power at knock-down rates, but selling it to the mines at super abnormal profits.

Madam Speaker, the new BSA has remained a closely guarded secret after ZESCO Limited and the CEC signed it. Several attempts by hon. Members of Parliament and the general public to compel the Energy Regulation Board (ERB) to –

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Chama North, clearly, you know the criterion for asking matters of urgent public importance. What you are doing now is just debating and taking us on something which completely does not qualify to be raised under Standing Order Nos. 134 and 135. I am sure you know the procedures by now. Please, put in a question directed to the hon. Minister of Energy, so that he can be able to answer. You can even visit the offices of the ministry.

Even if I have curtailed you, that is clearly not a matter of urgent public importance. The question that you should ask yourself, as you look at the criterion, is: Is it a matter of life and death? Clearly, even if the issue of the Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) was not tackled today, there will be no catastrophe that will happen. No life will be lost. So, please, hon. Members, let us follow the guidelines in the Standing Orders, so that we do not waste time unnecessarily. You could have even used the next segment to ask a question of that nature. So that matter of urgent public importance is not admitted.


Mr Wamunyima: On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Wamunyima: Madam Speaker, thank you for allowing me to raise a matter of urgent public importance pursuant to our Standing Order No. 134. My matter is directed to the hon. Minister of Tourism.

Madam Speaker, I got correspondence yesterday from Lyamakumba Ward in Nalolo Constituency that there has been migration of hippos from a lake called Ngulu to a lake called Lyamakumba. Of particular concern is that on Wednesday, a youth was attacked by these hippos and this has caused apprehension because this particular lake is the main crossing point for pupils going to Nambwae Secondary School. It is also the main lake that the community crosses using canoes when going to seek health services from Senanga Boma.

Madam Speaker, this incidence has caused apprehension in the community, to the extent that some pupils are refusing to cross this lake. With this situation in Lyamakumba Ward, a total population of people who stay in the Lyamakumba Plains currently stands at more than 1,900 people. In this regard, safety measures are required to ensure that pupils who need to go to school and people who need to access other health amenities and community services do this without fear.

Madam Speaker, I seek your guidance.

Madam Speaker: We have had issues of human-animal conflict before in relation to lions, but now, it has drifted to hippos. Definitely, this issue needs to be addressed. Permanent solutions should be found on how the issues of human-animal conflict can be addressed.

I am not very keen on how that can be done, but since we are talking about hippos and not lions, we will give the hon. Member some benefit and direct the hon. Minister of Tourism to respond. If he was here, he would have made a comment, but I see that he is not here. So, I will direct that he renders a ministerial statement on Tuesday, 12th July, 2022, just to explain what is happening with the hippos and what measures are being taken to ensure that life is protected.

I see that there are no other matters of urgent public importance being raised and, therefore, we can move to the next item.



Mr Mundubile (Mporokoso): Madam Speaker, whilst in the Opposition, President Hakainde Hichilema was very critical of the then President over foreign trips, stating that the trips were just a waste of resources. He even gave the then President the name “KamwendoMnjira”. However, from the time the President assumed office, he has made several trips –

Madam Speaker: What does “kamwendomnjira” mean?

Mr Mundubile:Kamwendomnjira’ means ‘ever on the road’.


Mr Mundubile: Madam Speaker, from the time President Hakainde Hichilema assumed office, he has made several foreign trips, raising expressions of concern among the people of Zambia. We are happy he has realised, and appreciates, that foreign trips are very important.

Madam Speaker, the economy is going through a very difficult time, given the increases in fuel prices almost every month, and we are aware that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning is in the process of arranging an International Monetary Fund (IMF) bailout package that involves our creditors, and China is one of the creditors.

Madam Speaker, of all the trips the President is making, we note, with concern, that he has not prioritised a trip to China which, we think, would be very important in helping us to negotiate with the creditors. How soon does Her Honour the Vice-President think the President will undertake a trip to China so that he can present his case to the creditors, renegotiate the debt and, thereby, help us secure the IMF package that we so badly need, given the state of the economy now, including the including the increase in fuel price?

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, I did not hear the last part because there is so much the hon. Member has talked about. It is a plateful. So, allow me to also answer to as many of the issues as I can remember from what the hon. Member has said.

Mr Mundubile: We can clarify.

The Vice-President: It is not me. I am the not the Presiding Officer.

Sorry, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: The last part, Your Honour the Vice-President, was on why the President is not visiting China, too.

Mr Mundubile interjected.

Madam Speaker: Well, I do not want to make a comment on the other issues.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, thank you very much.

Madam Speaker, I did hear him talk of why the President is not prioritising China. Allow me, this time, to read because I may forget some things.

Mr Mundubile: So that I am clear.

The Vice-President: Maybe, I will start with the prioritisation part because he has said too many things, trying to impress I do not know whom.


The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, this Government realises the importance of China; it has not looked down on China. We do appreciate, and the President appreciates. Let me tell you that, nowadays, you can be in China without flying there.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mundubile: So, why are we flying?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, President Hakainde Hichilema has had a talk with the President of China, and that is among our many priorities. However, one does not just stand up and say, ‘I am visiting here or there’. That is the truth.

Madam Speaker, the President has had a chat with the President of China. The two Presidents have had a very sincere talk, and I know that the Chinese have realised who we are and who our colleagues are.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!


The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, we do realise that China is among the creditors who really put in a lot, and the hon. Member must know that after the chat and other interactions at different levels with the Chinese, the Chinese are on board and are working together with other creditors to find a solution for Zambia. This is common knowledge, as it was in the media. Further, the Chinese came here, remember, and even pleaded on our behalf for support. How, then, can the hon. Member say what he has said? Does he think that the Chinese are doing that on their own? No! There is engagement between Zambia and China, and between the President of Zambia and the President of China.

Mr Mundubile: When is he visiting China?

The Vice-President: That is among the many priorities and, because of the state of our economy, the President is working hard.

Madam Speaker, let me talk about the trips, because people must see the benefits of the trips that President is making.

Madam Speaker, Zambia’s Foreign Policy of 2014 is anchored on economic diplomacy, which aims to address the development needs of the country, and various regional and global challenges, with a view to maximising Zambia’s economic interests.

Hon. Opposition Member: Question!

The Vice-President: Yes!

This is achieved through international co-operation using channels such as bilateral and multilateral engagements to leverage the benefits for the country.

Madam Speaker, having been elected into office under a year ago, the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, has undertaken various international trips, as noted by the Hon. Leader of Opposition, which have accrued benefits to the country, including strengthening of bilateral and multilateral relations between Zambia and the international community so as to foster socio-economic development.


Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members on the left!

Can we listen to the answer that is being provided.

Hon. Opposition Member: Time, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: There is a lot of chit-chatting, and the manner of asking questions is such that questions are taking two to three minutes to ask. So, Her Honour the Vice-President is trying to be as detailed as possible so that she clears the question.

Hon. Opposition Members: Awe!


Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

When a question is asked, the person who is providing the answer should be given time to answer that question to your satisfaction and the satisfaction of the person who asked the question.

Hon Opposition Members: The answer is too long.

Madam Speaker: The question was equally long.

May Her Honour continue.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, maybe, we need to just say ‘Yes’ or ‘No’.

Madam Speaker, when people ask, the questions have to be answered, and this question started with the trips.

Mr Mundubile: The question was on how soon.

The Vice-President: The concern of the hon. Member was about the President’s trips. So, I have to explain that. Otherwise, the people out there will believe the statement that the hon. Member made.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member talked about the increase in fuel prices, and those are things that our colleagues tell the public, and they want us to just swallow them. However, I will answer the question as the hon. Member asked it because I have to explain what benefits, if any, we have got from the President’s trips. It is not just kamwendomnjira; just going to dance and hire –

Mr Mundubile interjected.

The Vice-President: You asked the question, hon. Member. Let us be –

I will continue with the benefits.

Mr Mundubile: Increases in fuel!

The Vice-President: The hon. Members will agree with me that the President’s trips have renewed confidence and good will from the international community.

Mr Mundubile: Question!

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: We have applied resources to the various sectors. That is the reality.

Mr Mundubile: Question!

The Vice-President: You will soon hear of the expedited negotiations with the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and the World Bank to create a conducive environment for debt sustainability. Zambia has also been re-admitted to the Millennium Challenge Compact (MCC), from which it was suspended in 2018 due to poor governance.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: The President’s high-level engagements led to Zambia’s qualification for a second MCC, which will play a critical role in transforming the country’s water sector through infrastructure development, and poverty reduction. The trips have also led to the signing of the Green Growth Compact with the United Kingdom (UK) worth £100 million, which has been reserved for small and medium enterprises (SMEs).

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker, yesterday, people were saying SMEs had been side-lined, but the President’s trips are bringing about such outcomes. The President’s international trips have also renewed interest in trade and investment opportunities in Zambia, among other outcomes.

Madam Speaker, I have a lot on my plate, and I can give it all out. However, it is not the answers that the hon. Members want; they want politics. I tell you, much has been achieved through the trips that the President has made, including the signing of memoranda of understanding (MOUs). Even when the hon. Members visit other countries, they are now treated like superstars because of the President’s demeanour.

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, we appreciate the response from Her Honour the Vice-President. The diplomatic reasons she has mentioned are the same ones for which presidents everywhere in the world travel.


Hon. PF Member: Nothing new!

Mr Kampyongo: Literally, there is nothing new.

Madam Speaker, my question is premised on the news that the people of Zambia woke up to this morning. The people have been treated to yet another increment in fuel prices. It would appear that the theory Her Honour the Vice-President shared with us earlier this year of increasing the prices in order to reduce the cost of living is no longer working.


Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, the factors in fuel pricing are very clear: the Indeni Petroleum Refinery Company Limited closed, but the factors applied on costing fuel have not changed.

Madam Speaker, poor farmers have only been given a K10 increment on the price of a bag of maize, yet they have to move the maize from production areas to depots. My question is: Is the Government considering reviewing the prices the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) has set for our poor farmers, who feed the larger part of this country, in order for them to manage to move their products from the production areas to the depots for sale to the FRA?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, when hon. Members take long and say a lot in building up ideas and coming to the intended questions, it becomes difficult for us to not build up to the answers, too. In building up his question, the hon. Member spoke of the FRA and the price of maize. I think, too, it is important for me to say that there was a statement from the Energy Regulation Board (ERB) on what we have also been saying. The ERB is has not increased the price of fuel. The increase is a result of the factors on the international market. I can read through this statement, but I know that the hon. Members on the left will be very anxious.

Madam Speaker, let us not twist things just because we are in politics. The reality is that this Government wants to allow the market to flow. If our colleagues say the remedy is to subsidise, when are we going to stop subsidising? Currently, we are not in control of the international price of fuel. We also know that there are many factors, including the war in Ukraine, which have created more demand for oil, and we are not an island, as a nation. We are affected by external forces.

Madam Speaker, on the issue of fuel, we all pray that the international community be at peace like we are in this country. We are now at peace, and I stress the word “now”. Peace is the greatest ingredient in development and prosperity, and this Government of Mr Hakainde Hichilema has brought peace.


The Vice-President: I am building up my response also.


The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, because of what I have stated above, many activities go on today, including having elections without bloodshed or people beating up one another.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: That is very important because it is what will affect the performance of the economy, and it is biblical. We are a Christian nation, but I do not want to preach.

Madam Speaker, on the issue of fuel, we must all be ready. There are moments when we will ask ourselves what we are going to do, since there are factors beyond our control, but we will need to continue working.

Madam Speaker, on the issue of the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) price, the hon. Member has said that the FRA has only added K10 to last year’s floor price. I think, that is what I got from his question. Should the FRA increase the price? I was listening to one young man analyse the price and, for now, I agree with our Chief Marketing Officer who, right from the beginning, said that farming is a business. Further, the floor price is the price at which the FRA is going to buy maize, but the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu is not bound to buy maize at that price, and farmers are free to sell at the price offered by –

Hon. Opposition Member interjected.

The Vice-President: Well, we are subsiding so that the people can benefit. Those who will sell to the FRA will sell at K160, and we know that some will. If they take it as a business, then, other people will still buy at a higher price. So, this is not a binding price. It is not mandatory for every businessman to go out there and buy maize at K160. With the stable economy that we are trying to create, even the mealie-meal price should stabilise.

Madam Speaker, it is not the intention of the Government to start listening to the concerns. We always listen to the concerns, but the rationale is that farming is a business. However, if there is a need to increase, then, the FRA will assess that. It is the FRA; not us, who are observing the market.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simumba (Nakonde): Madam Speaker, Zambians voted the United Party for National Development (UPND) Administration into office because of the promises it made to them, one of which was that immediately it formed Government, mealie-meal would be sold at K50 and fertiliser at K250, and that the Presidential Jet would be sold. Looking into all these promises that have not been fulfilled, does Her Honour the Vice-President intend to come to this House and render an apology to Zambians so that Zambians know that the promises will never be fulfilled?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Government Members: Ah!


Madam Speaker: Order!

Time is running as we are talking.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for the question even though I do not know whether it is a question or a comment.

Madam Speaker, all the promises are going to be fulfilled.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: We are nine months in office, and Zambians have seen some promises fulfilled. We did not promise that everything will be done at once but, surely, there is some stability. Even in prices, there is some stability there.

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: The hon. Member is talking about the Presidential Jet, but he should wait. Nobody will come and say, ‘Let it go’.

Rev Katuta: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Just hear us. It is a fact that whatever we promised will come to pass because God is with us, and we are planning. This is the truth, and it does not matter how hon. Members feel about it. The promises will be fulfilled.

Madam Speaker, what should we apologise for? Free education?

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!


Madam Speaker: Order!

The Vice-President: Should we apologise for decentralising, recruiting teachers and initiating the census? All these things need money, but we have managed to do them within months. So, all will happen, and Zambians should not listen to some friends who want to pretend that they have a way out. Why is it that they did not provide the way out just a few months ago?

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Sing’ombe(Dundumwezi): Madam Speaker, before I ask my question, allow me to congratulate Her Honour the Vice-President and the United Party for National Development (UPND) on winning Lumbo Ward in the Western Province and Nshisho Ward in Central Province by wide margins, diminishing those who were saying “alebwelelapo”, meaning that they would come back. Little did they know that they were going away from reality.

Madam Speaker, I know that the previous Government also used to make increments to the floor price of maize through the Food Reserve Agency (FRA). However, it used to dribble Zambians. Even when it increased maize prices through the FRA, it would not give farmers adequate grain bags.

Hon. Opposition Members: What is the question?

Mr Sing’ombe: What is the Government doing to ensure that farmers receive adequate grain bags this year, unlike what was happening previously when our colleagues used to fail to give farmers grain bags to sell maize to the FRA?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!


The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I appreciate the comments made by the hon. Member for Dundumwezi. Indeed, I join in congratulating the United Party for National Development (UPND) and Zambians on going through a non-violent by-election. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: I think, we must all congratulate ourselves. There was no serious violence reported, and that is what we want.



The Vice-President: They can ask again, and I will say, ‘There is peace in our land’.

Madam Speaker, I also thank the hon. Member for Dundumwezi for bringing up this element of grain bags. It is good and secure, but it also reduces the cost of supplying maize for farmers. So, we will continue to work together. Hon. Colleague, you should just support this Government so that it finds answers.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Lusambo (Kabushi): Madam Speaker, before I pose the question, I just want to remind Her Honour the Vice-President that Zambia has been peaceful since 1964, and that we are still living peacefully. Politically, Zambia has been stable since 1964. That said, the hon. Minister of Technology and Science visited Zambia Telecommunications Company (ZAMTEL)  Limited on a familiarisation tour and had a meeting with the management and other members of staff in which he mentioned that the Government of the Republic of Zambia had no intention to recapitalise ZAMTEL. The acting Chief Executive Officer (CEO), Mr Joshua Malupenga also reaffirmed to his workers that the hon. Minister had indicated that ZAMTEL would be sold in August, 2022. Is the Government selling ZAMTEL or not?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Ya, ba MP (Member of Parliament) aba!

Madam Speaker, I think, someone should raise a point of order on the hon. Member to substantiate the information he is giving because, if it is hearsay on social media, I do not know how it was put there. Yes, I agree that the hon. Minister visited Zambia Telecommunications Company (ZAMTEL) Limited as any Minister would do. However, there was no discussion on ZAMTEL being sold in August, this year.

Madam Speaker, I think, the hon. Minister has even tried to explain that recapitalising is another issue. The question is: Is it a priority of this Government to recapitalise ZAMTEL, which is in competition with other service providers? The hon. Minister said “No” to that.  However, he did not say that the Government was going to sell ZAMTEL. He just gave to ZAMTEL an opportunity to work with other service providers. Remember, we have a public-private partnership (PPP) forum. So, commercial entities can sit and find a way of serving ZAMTEL. For now, the Government has not made any decision to sell the company. At least, not today. The hon. Member can mark this day. Otherwise, I do not know what he is talking about.

Madam Speaker, the Managing Director did not say that the hon. Minister had said the Government was going to sell ZAMTEL, and ‘recapitalising’ is not selling. The two words do not mean the same thing, please.

 Madam Speaker, I thank you.


Madam Speaker: Let us not debate while seated.

I am trying to balance the debate. So, I call upon an independent and feminine voice.

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Madam Speaker, I would like to ask this important question to the Vice-President, seeing that she is a Reverend and that the Ministry of Religious Affairs and National Guidance falls under her office.

Madam Speaker, this Government came into power nine months ago now, but I have not heard it call for national prayers. Would the Vice-President kindly inform the nation why the Government has not called for national prayers?

The Vice- President: Madam Speaker, I thank the Pastor for asking this question.

Madam Speaker, the Bible says that when we pray, we should not make ourselves look miserable or sad. Actually, we need to apply oil and look good. Further, one should not pray for people to notice that one is praying because that is not biblical. So, basically, prayers have been going on. However, let me mention, from the State’s point of view, that 18th October was already set as a day of prayer, and the last day of prayer came when we were already in power. I personally attended those prayers. So, do we want to designate other dates when there is that day of prayer that we have not cancelled? So, the hon. Member can get comfort from that. This Government of Mr Hakainde Hichilema believes in Zambia remaining a Christian nation, and that is affirmed in the Constitution. Of course, we are tolerant of other religious beliefs. That is where we are.

Madam Speaker, the Office of the Vice-President has been engaging not only with the Church mother bodies, but with other churches as well, to agree on principles and values as we give guidance to the nation.

Madam Speaker, thank you.

Mr Chilangwa (Kawambwa): Madam Speaker, the Vice-President has asked why the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government should apologise. It must apologise for unfulfilled promises, betrayed hopes, an underperforming Cabinet whose members are not here when we want them, and for the bad economy. On the ground, things are bad, and people are complaining. Maybe, it is the case of the Emperor's New Clothes, an old book I read.


Mr Chilangwa: Madam Speaker –

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Kawambwa, let us avoid bringing controversy. Just ask the question.


Mr Chilangwa: Madam Speaker, since this Cabinet has frustrated the President so much, is the President considering resigning for unfulfilled promises, as the UPND is coming to the end of the road?


Madam Speaker: I am sure that the answer will be equally controversial.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Kawambwa for being so passionate in reminding himself of the Emperor's New Clothes that some people wore just a few months ago, believing that they would come back.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!


The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, our promises are for five years, and we have only been in power for nine months; we have four years and three months to go. The hon. Member might not see it, but our intention to fulfil all our promises beyond the hon. Members’ expectations is in our plans, programmes and projects.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: The hon. Members did not expect the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) or free education.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: They used to challenge me while I stood here but, now, can they talk?

Hon. Government Members: No!

The Vice-President: They cannot.

Madam Speaker, I cannot apologise. The hon. Member for Kawambwa is seeing differently, and I do not know which glasses he is wearing because, today, Zambians have spoken in Mkushi and Mongu, all saying ‘Go, go!” So, what is the hon. Member saying?


The Vice-President: We are going to fulfil the promises that we made to Zambians. That means that the hon. Member and other Zambians will come and ask us, “Did you do well?” So, let us hold our peace. I know that the hon. Member for Kawambwa will vote for me and the UPND.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ngowani (Mpongwe): Madam Speaker, traditional leaders are major stakeholders in the development of this country. However, succession disputes are taking long to be resolved. I cite the example of my constituency –

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Mpongwe, you are not clear. Please, can you try to remove the – Oh sorry, I cannot say that.


Madam Speaker: Try to be as clear as possible, please.

Mr Ngowani:  Madam Speaker, I am saying that traditional leaders are major stakeholders in the development of this country. 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Mpongwe, you are not clear. Sorry, unfortunately, we have to skip you, because we are running out of time.

Mr Mushanga (Bwacha): Madam Speaker, it is a privilege, every Friday, to have a slot to ask a question to Her Honor the Vice-President. 

Madam Vice-President, good morning.

Madam Speaker, Hon. Jack Mwiimbu is aware ...

Mr Mwiimbu: Aah!


Mr Mushanga: ... that the police, through Zambia Police Headquarters, has advised the unemployed teachers and health workers who are set to convene a peaceful demonstration or protest to not proceed, yet we see other citizens being allowed to protest. Is Her Honour the Vice-President’s Government taking away the right to protest from these Zambians even when all the procedures were complied with? If not, …

Mr Michelo: Did you allow them to do it?

Madam Speaker: Ask one question, hon. Member.

Mr Mushanga: ... she should guarantee that those citizens will be granted permission to protest.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Bwacha, please, ask one question.

Mr Mushanga: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I have seen Hon. Jack Mwiimbu conversing with Her Honour the Vice-President. That is why I said that he is aware. 

The Vice-President: Thank you, Madam Speaker, and good morning, hon. Member for Bwacha, the most consistent.

Madam Speaker, I think, what I hear is that the police, through the Police Headquarters, stopped the unemployed from protesting. Did he say teachers and health workers? I do not know. So, I will call them health workers because, maybe, it is a combination of people who wanted to demonstrate.

Demonstrating, Madam Speaker, is one of the rights of Zambians. However, each demonstration has a procedure. What I learned is that the people who want to demonstrate did not follow the laid-down procedure. Otherwise, even now, they can go to the designated offices and ask for permission, and they will be allowed. They did not need to go to the headquarters to seek authority when there were offices all over.  I think, that is not the way to go.

Madam Speaker, this Government does not intend to infringe on the rights of Zambians. So, I think, there was a misunderstanding in what happened.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Some hon. Members have been quietly following the proceedings. I think that they need to be recognised.

Mr Mumba (Kantanshi): Madam Speaker, when answering the first question, Her Honour the Vice-President lamented on the President’s visits.

Madam Speaker, the Vice-President is aware that we have been knocking on her door, asking that when the President travels, we be informed of the benefits for the people of Zambia. Further, we will host an African Union (AU) summit in the next two weeks, and the President announced that under the water projects that would be launched, 1 million jobs would be created. When is the Government coming to share the preparations, expected outcomes and some success stories that it expects to come out of the summit so that we do not have questions like those that were asked in terms of Government expenditure?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: That is a very important question, Madam Speaker.

Thank you, hon. Member for Kantanshi, for a genuine and sincere question.


The Vice-President: Yes! We really must know what we are getting as benefits.

Madam Speaker, I tried to go this way, but I could see that my hon. Colleagues on your left thought I was taking too long. However, it is very important that people know what the benefits are. Maybe, I can, again, try to mention some of the benefits using the question that the hon. Member has asked. 

Madam Speaker: Maybe, for the sake of time, it might be prudent to issue a ministerial statement on that subject so that the hon. Members are satisfied and see what the benefits are.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Most obliged, Madam Speaker.  

Madam Speaker: The ministerial statement can be delivered on Wednesday, 13th July, 2022.

Hon. Member for Mufumbwe, you had indicated that you wished to raise a point of order. Are you doing so?

Mr Kamondo: No, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Okay, sorry, then. I am also trying to balance.

The hon. Member for Chitambo may take the Floor.

Mr Mutale (Chitambo): Nangufye mwa ntoloka temulandu. It is okay. My question to Her Honour the Vice-President this morning –


Hon. Members: Meaning?

Mr Mutale: What do you mean?

Madam Speaker, we have noted that inflation has been going down. Yesterday, I read that it had actually gone to a single digit.

Hon. Government Members: Correct!

Mr Mutale: May I know when that will translate into reality in the economy so that Zambians can benefit from it?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, yes, inflation is going down and, I think, I have answered this question several times.

Madam Speaker, I think, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning is doing very well on the economic front.

Madam Speaker, yes, the inflation rate has gone down, and that is one of the indicators of good performance of an economy. The hon. Member said that prices are going up. Yes, in the case of the price of fuel. Further, when the price of fuel goes up, it affects the prices of other commodities. I think, I have explained, through the Energy Regulation Board (ERB), that this is beyond our control. There is also the general performance of the economy in terms of the people who do business. Sometimes, they want to cash in. So, we need consistency.

Madam Speaker, some things take a bit of time. We know that the indicators that we are seeing point to the good times that are coming, and good times are, indeed, coming. So, we should brace ourselves for the hiked fuel prices because that is not under our control. Things will get better as people and the business community understand that they are able to make profit even with stable prices. If the hon. Member needs more answers, I have my hon. Minister who is very good at explaining that. For now, this is the answer that I can give.

Madam Speaker: We will try the hon. Member for Mpongwe again. I hope he will be clear now.

Mr Ngowani: Madam Speaker, I was saying that traditional leaders are major stakeholders in the development of this country. However, succession disputes take long to be resolved. Are there any plans by the New Dawn Government to resolve succession disputes with the urgency they deserve so that development can be enhanced in chiefdoms?

Madam Speaker: I am not sure whether the question is clear, but it is on succession disputes. Is that what you are asking about, hon. Member for Mpongwe?

Mr Ngowani: Yes, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: I do not know whether the context is clear. Anyway, Her Honour the Vice-President will attempt to answer if she has heard the question.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, like you have noted, the question is not clear enough.

Madam Speaker, when we talk of succession wrangles, the Act very clearly stipulates that it is up to traditional leaders and their people to decide who succeeds. The Act allows us to get involved only when those parties have done all their work and the succession wrangles have been resolved. When there is any other issue, they go to the courts of law to resolve them. So, it is no longer the President’s responsibility to decide who is who because he does not know all the lineages of the chiefs. That is what I can say, and I hope that I have answered his question.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.




348. Mr Mabenga (Mulobezi) asked the Minister of Technology and Science:

     (a)  whether the Government has any plans to construct communication towers in Kasompa Ward in

           Mulobezi Parliamentary Constituency; 

     (b)  if so, when the plans will be implemented; and

     (c)  which other areas are being considered for construction of communication towers in the Constituency.

The Minister of Technology and Science (Mr Mutati): Madam Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the Government has plans to construct communication towers in all parts of the country that have no access to communication including, Kasompa Ward in Mulobezi Parliamentary Constituency. The ministry is undertaking detailed surveys to ascertain coverage requirements in Kasompa Ward and other parts of Mulobezi, which may not be adequately covered and this will be included in the next phase.

Madam Speaker, the House may wish to note that the Government has committed to continue supporting tower projects from 2023 and beyond. This will be informed by the detailed coverage gap analysis.

Madam Speaker, the initial gap analysis surveys have so far identified the following wards in Mulobezi Constituency for consideration in future projects: Nawinda, Kamanga, Machile, and Sichili wards.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mabenga: Madam Speaker, is there any time frame given to these projects as to when they will be done? Meanwhile, is it possible that we can expand the network from second generation (2G) to fourth generation (4G), so that at least, for the time being, maybe it can cover Kasompa?

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, we are doing a number of things in order to increase coverage, and this is not only in Mulobezi Parliamentary Constituency but the country as a whole.

Madam Speaker, firstly, we have just auctioned the 800 MHz which will be completed at the end of July. The impact of this will be to increase the coverage of existing towers. That is one plan.

Secondly, we are also upgrading most of the towers from second generation (2G) to four generation (4G) and that will increase coverage. Thirdly, we are also co-locating towers in the various parts of Zambia so that one tower can be able to carry all the network operators, and therefore, increasing coverage. Fourthly, we are also deploying the universal access fund in those critical areas that were identified, that have got serious deficit. In terms of implementation as I have indicated in the answer, these plans will be implemented after the detailed analysis. We are looking to implementation in 2023.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Madam Speaker, in his response, the hon. Minister of Science and Technology indicated that all the parts of the country that are not covered will be covered under this programme. Does the hon. Minister intend to outsource these services for constructing these towers or Infratel Zambia will undertake the works?

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, perhaps, to start with, our desktop analysis has indicated that we need roughly 764 towers. However, we believe that after a detailed analysis, that number may be able to change.

Madam Speaker, in terms of construction, all the towers will be constructed using the private sector because we believe that we should give opportunity to our people to be able to construct towers. They are not complicated in terms of construction.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Mulobezi, do you have any other supplementary question?

Mr Mabenga: Madam Speaker thank you, I just want to thank the hon. Minister for the job well done.

Mr Chaatila (Moomba): Madam Speaker, I seek more clarification on the follow-up question by the hon. Member for Kamfinsa. Is the hon. Minister able to share information with hon. Members once the survey in locations and wards where the Government intends to construct these towers is done, so that in case there are mismatches in our areas of concern as hon. Members of Parliament, like Chief Chona’s area in my constituency, then, those we can be added to the list? This is something we can do before they start implementing the project?

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, I think that is a very important question. Once we finish the detailed survey and have identified where the gaps are, we shall share with the hon. Members of Parliament this report, so that it can be used to monitor our performance in terms of implementation.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: I am sure the question has been adequately answered. We are expanding it I think, too much. So, let us make progress.


349. Mr Emmanuel M. Musonda (Lupososhi) (on behalf of Mr Chewe (Lubansenshi)) asked the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development:

       (a)    whether the Government has any plans to rehabilitate the Luwingu/Ipusukilo road in Luwingu District;

       (b)    if so, when the plans will be implemented;

       (c)    what the estimated cost of the project is; and

       (d)     what the estimated time frame for the completion of the project is.

The Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi): Madam Speaker, the Government has plans to rehabilitate the Luwingu/Ipusukilo Road in Luwingu District.

Madam Speaker, the project will commence once funds are secured.

Madam Speaker, the project is estimated at a contract sum of ZMW 238,939,701, Value Added Tax (VAT) inclusive.

Madam Speaker, the estimated time frame for the project is thirty months.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Emmanuel M. Musonda: Madam Speaker, I am happy that the hon. Minister has accepted that the Luwingu/Ipusukilo Road will be tarred and that the Government has got these plans. So, my question is: When will the funds be available?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I think the Front Bench of this Government has time and again explained the process that we are going through to restructure this economy so that we can begin to move forward. We have talked about discussions that are currently ongoing with creditors. Earlier on, I think we got an indication that even China is on board. The economy that we inherited was in very bad condition and that is why we were defaulting. That is why we owe so many people so much money including contractors.

Madam Speaker, we cannot move this country forward without first of all looking at the economy and placing it on the right footing. This is what this Administration has totally focused on. We indicated that had we completed our discussions with the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and creditors or when we do that, it is the hope of this Government that we come back to this House with a Supplementary Budget that will provide, hopefully, some funds for important critical tasks such as infrastructure development. As of now, the major thrust is to restructure the economy.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Fube (Chilubi): Madam Speaker, I think it is now quite worrying because of the answers that we seem to be receiving with regard to different projects being undertaken in the country. This House passed a Budget of K173 billion for the year 2022. Now, most of the answers that we are receiving point to revenue factors that we have no control over, like the revenue that is coming from outside the country, especially the International Monetary Fund (IMF), which seem to be a magic bullet. Is there no domestic arrangement that we can make to cater for the Luwingu/Ipusukilo Road and many other smaller projects as opposed to just saying that we do not have money?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I think the hon. Member for Chilubi is talking about revenues and that the Budget was passed. We accept that and he is accurate. The Budget is K172 billion but he has to understand the makeup of that K172 billion because he has referred to domestic revenues as solutions.

Madam Speaker, out of that K172 billion in this years’ Budget, K98.9 billion is locally generated revenue. The rest has to be raised from domestic sources through the Government instruments and above that, again, foreign debt and so on. However, out of that domestic revenue of K98.9 billion, if the hon. Member looks in the Yellow Book and so on, almost all of that is accounted for by two line items on the expenditure side which is, servicing the debt and public sector emoluments for public workers. That is how tight the situation is. That is why it is necessary to conclude these deals so that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, his team and the President can help in the restructuring of that debt, so we lower the debt service. When that is done, it will release some fiscal space to be able to undertake certain projects and so on.

Madam Speaker, we are a serious Government. Earlier on, I think, in the recent past, we were debating the Report of the Committee on Government Assurances,  and one of the major items that came out of that debate was about  the promises that were being made and not fulfilled. This Government does not want to go that route. If we say, this is going t be done, it will have been backed by funds. If funds are not available, we have to do what we can to create that fiscal space. That is what we are doing as a Government.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Madam Speaker, the theme for the Eighth National Development Plan (8NDP) is, “Social Economic Transformation for Improved Livelihoods.” The road project that we are discussing, once implemented, attempts to achieve that very objective that has been captured in the theme for the 8NDP. The response from the hon. Minister is that the project will be done once funds are available. Are there any other plans that the ministry intends to undertake to achieve the same very objective of connectivity to allow the people of Luwingu transport their farm produce and other commodities that are critical in line with the theme for the 8NDP in the event that the funds to tar the road are not availed?

Madam Speaker: The question is similar to the one that the hon. Member for Chilubi has asked but I will allow the hon. Minister to respond.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, one of the plans to improve connectivity even in the light of very scarce resources is what we have embarked on, which is the Public-Private Partnership (PPP) and a number of roads is being considered.

Madam Speaker, with respect to the corridor between Luapula and the Northern provinces, I think we have discussed the Mwenda/Kasomeno Road on which we are making steady progress. Hopefully, we should be able to conclude that particular one.

Madam Speaker, but just for the information of the House, this particular project was given out in 2014, but three years later, in 2017, the contractor demobilised from site due to non-advanced payment by the Government at the time. The project stalled in 2017. 

Madam Speaker, be that as it may, we, as a responsible Government has also said whether it was abandoned because of lack of prudence in terms of project implementation, we have plans to continue with this except, we have first of all to find funds for the project.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member is specific about this particular road, but let me just say that the Road Development Agency (RDA) on this particular sector is considering to include the first 23 km of the road, from Luwingu to Lupososhi on the Improved Rural Connectivity Project supported by the World Bank under package eight contracts in Northern Province. So, that is part of the process that we are considering to ensuring that we make the movement of goods and agricultural products a bit easier in that particular region of our country.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.




Mr Mubika (Shangombo): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that this House do adopt the Report of the Committee on Transport, Works and Supply for the First Session of the Thirteenth National Assembly, laid on the Table of the House on 27th June, 2022.

Madam Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Mr Munsanje (Mbabala): Madam Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

Mr Mubika: Madam Speaker, during the year under review, your Committee considered a topical issue on the implementation of the National Road Tolling Programme in Zambia, as part of its programme of work. Your Committee interacted with various state and non-state stakeholders in the road sub-sector to obtain information on the topical issue. This was followed by a local tour to Lusaka, Central and Copperbelt provinces in the company of the three key sector agencies, namely, the Road Development Agency (RDA), the National Road Fund Agency (NRFA) and the Road Traffic and Safety Agency (RTSA). The local tour enabled your Committee to visit selected in-land and port of entry toll stations to appreciate their operations, management and challenges.

Madam Speaker, your Committee also undertook a foreign tour to Zimbabwe to benchmark on the involvement of local contractors in the construction industry. The House may recall that during the Twelfth National Assembly, your Committee had considered this topic, but due to the travel restrictions imposed by the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic, your Committee did not undertake any local or foreign tours.

Madam Speaker, allow me now to highlight a few issues from your Committee’s report. The House may wish to note that the Government launched the national road tolling programme in November 2013, pursuant to the Tolls Act, No. 14 of 2011. The Act was passed to establish and provide for the operation of toll roads, charging and collection of tolls, which form part of the road fund, which is supposed to be used exclusively for the construction, maintenance and rehabilitation of roads. The road fund derives its funds from the fuel levy, road user charges, weigh-bridge fines, toll charges, funding from the Government and from development and cooperating partners. This fund is administered by the NRFA, as appointed agents of the RDA. The road fund, therefore, is a basket of funds from various revenue sources. This somewhat complicates the use of toll fees exclusively for construction, maintenance and rehabilitation of roads.

Madam Speaker, further, your Committee was informed that funds from the road fund were deposited into the National Treasury after which, their use and allocation were at the discretion of the Government based on other competing needs. Your Committee recommends that the Government should work out modalities in line with the Tolls Act, to ensure that money from toll fees is used exclusively on road construction, rehabilitation and maintenance.

Madam Speaker, another matter of concern relates to the state of the roads where the toll gates or toll stations are situated. Part of the reason as to why there is this predicament is that attention has been on road construction at the expense of road rehabilitation and maintenance.

Madam Speaker, during its local tour, your Committee learnt that the Government through the RDA had neglected road maintenance to the extent that most of the roads with toll gates which were previously in a maintainable state had deteriorated to levels were they now required complete overhaul.

Madam Speaker, your Committee is alive of the fact that the Government is hugely indebted to a number of road contractors on several incomplete road projects across the country. That notwithstanding, your Committee found during its local tours that there are certain roads in this country which are of great economic importance which  require to be rehabilitated urgently, if  the dream of making Zambia an economically viable land linked country is to be realised. In this regard, I wish to appeal to the Government to prioritise the construction and or rehabilitation of the following roads:

     (a)   the Lusaka/Ndola Road, which should be upgraded to a dual carriage way;

     (b)  the Chingola/Kasumbalesa Road;

     (c)  the Ndola/ Mufulira Road

     (d)  the Mufulira/Mokambo Road; and

     (e)  the Chibuluma Road in Kitwe.

Madam Speaker, these roads I have stated are in a deplorable state. The movement of goods and services on these roads is a nightmare and does not make economic or business sense for the economy and business people, respectively. In addition, the rate of road carnage keeps increasing every year due to poor road network, meanwhile, motorists keep paying toll fees as required by law. Indeed, Madam Speaker, to echo the voices of the stakeholders, your Committee interacted with, “there is no value for money in paying toll fees.” The Committee, therefore, strongly urges the Government to attend to these roads sooner rather than later.

Finally, Madam Speaker, your Committee wishes to express its profound gratitude to you and the Clerk of the National Assembly for the invaluable support rendered to it during the session. Your Committee also thanks the various stakeholders who rendered both written and oral submissions during its long meetings and local tours. Great appreciation is also extended to the Parliament of Zimbabwe for hosting and facilitating your Committee during its foreign study visit to that country.

Madam Speaker, I beg to move.

Madam Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Mr Munsanje: Now, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, thank you so much for allowing the people of Mbabala to second the Motion moved by Hon. Mubika Mubika, our able Chairperson.

Madam Speaker, in seconding this Motion, allow me to highlight three points that have been captured in your Committee's Report.

Madam Speaker, the first one is that some of the stakeholders who were our witnesses were of the view that certain portions of the Tolls Act be amended to improve the tolling programme in general, its administration and management, in particular.

Madam Speaker, you will note that we have various pieces of legislation that are  managing the road sector with revenue collected by the National Road Fund Agency (NRFA), theRoad Transport and Safety Agency (RTSA), the Road Development Agency (RDA), and  the councils. All these institutions basically, have some legislation and certain aspect of toll collections. As such, it is important that the Government expedites the amendment or revision process as recommended by stakeholders to streamline the tolling programme in the country.

Madam Speaker, secondly, your Committee had learnt during the local tour that all stations had different Information and Communications Technology (ICT) systems installed for collecting and receipting toll fees. Your Committee was informed that the system installed by Necor Zambia Limited performed well. Therefore, we urge the Government through NRFA, to install this system on all future toll stations that will be built and harmonies the current ones that are in operation.

Madam Speaker, in the same ICT area, we also recommend for the seamless recognition of toll users who have Electronic Cards (e-Cards) so that they do not have to waste time at toll gates. They should have their lane that allows them efficiently without delaying at toll gates.

Madam Speaker, thirdly, your Committee is of the view that there is high cost of construction and maintenance of roads. There was need for the Government to consider the Public-Private Partnerships (PPPs) or the involvement of the private sector through concessions in the implementation of toll fees in order to leverage the private sector capital financing in road construction and maintenance.

Madam Speaker, during our international tours that was in Zimbabwe, we observed that the PPP was working well there. In Zimbabwe, they are building cheaper toll gates than our grand ones. Our grand ones are quite huge and expensive even though we still collect revenue from them. In Zimbabwe, they are constructing cheaper toll gates and they are able to collect revenue from them. So, we need to harmonise this by going for cheaper ones,which can still generate revenue, to reduce the cost of maintenance and construction.

Madam Speaker, with these few words, second the Motion.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr B. Mpundu (Nkana): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me an opportunity to add very few remarks on this very good report by your Committee. I also want to thank Hon. Mubika for a job well done.

Madam Speaker, indeed, the need to develop a good road network cannot be overemphasised. We do realise that Zambia enjoys comparative advantage because of its centrality. Therefore, if we opened or created a good road network, all the neighbouring countries would have passage. Goods and services would find their way into Zambia and neighbouring countries. So, I just want to say that there is need to continue developing our road infrastructure. I do remember that when the Link Zambia 8,000 project was launched, we thought that it would just be but a dream. However, through that project, we saw a number of areas that we thought would never see a tarred road, being linked to this project. So, it is my desire that the Government should continue to undertake such projects.

Madam Speaker, the road tolling project has been a successful story. I remember, before it was launched in Zambia, we visited other countries and we were amazed at the beauty of toll gates and how much revenue was being generated. The Government has seen successful results after its attempt to launch these toll gates, in as far as revenue collection is concerned. However, the question that continues to beg answer is: Where does this money go? The intention of the road tolling project was for the Government to collect revenue from road users. We are aware from the reports that so far, a lot of resource has been generated from these toll gates.

Madam Speaker, people have been complaining about the poor state of roads in this country. I have been singing about it in this House. Now, it sounds like a broken record in this House when I talk about the poor state of the Chibuluma Road, in Kitwe, which is a 10 km stretch. One of the issues that people raise in Kitwe is: What happens to the toll fees since the next toll gate is about 5 km away from Kitwe? All the motorists travelling to the North, either to Solwezi or to the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), pass through a toll gate which is about 5 km from Kitwe.  So, when we get answers in this House that the Chibuluma Road will be worked on when funds are available, the immediate question that people raise is, “What happens to the money that is collected at the toll gate which is just 5 km from Kitwe? We want to implore the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning working alongside the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development that the intention of having a good road tolling project was to raise money to construct new roads and rehabilitate the already existing ones.

Madam Speaker, your Committee is well placed in identifying that the Lusaka/Ndola Due Carriage Way project must be undertaken without wasting any more time. The Chibuluma Road should have been worked on as at yesterday. Your Committees that have taken tours using that road know the dilapidated state in which that road is. From this report, we can agree that there is money being generated from the toll gate which is just about 5 km from Kitwe. Therefore, that stretches needs to be rehabilitated. 

Madam Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1040 hours until 1100 hours.

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr B. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, before business was suspended, I was lamenting the frustrations that the people of Nkana, Kalulushi, Lufwanyama, as well as the travelling public, who pass through Chibuluma Road, are going through. They wonder why the Chibuluma Road remains in that poor state when a toll gate is only about5 km away from Kitwe.

Madam, let me also address the issue of capacitating local contractors. Your Committee that toured Zimbabwe highlighted the strides that the Government is making in building capacity among local contractors. Today we are told that most of the road projects happening in Zimbabwe are being done by local contractors whose capacity is being built by their Government.

Madam Speaker, in Zambia today, some of these toll gates we are talking about have actually been built by Zambian contractors, companies that are owned fully by Zambians. Therefore, it is my desire that every time we are contemplating on building toll gates, Zambians must be engaged. It is different from yesteryears when technology was not known by Zambian contractors and they did not have capacity but today, that should not be an excuse for continuing to engage foreign companies to build these toll gates.

Madam, I have been approached by companies based in Kitwe that would have wanted to construct the Chibuluma Road even on a Public-Private Partnership (PPP) arrangement. We can see that if we opened dialogue and created these synergies, it is possible that we could address these issues that we are lamenting about.

Madam Speaker, road carnage is high today. So, the need for us to continue improving the road network cannot be overemphasised. The lives of hon. Members of Parliament who travel to the Copperbelt and up the North are at risk. You know Madam Speaker, that we have to travel to our constituencies every other weekend. You would be shocked to see the stretch between Kabwe and Ndola and this is the road that we are expected to drive on every other weekend.

Madam, you would be shocked to see how terrible this stretch on the Chibuluma Road is. One would think that there was a war in Zambia and yet, we have resources within our reach. I do not understand why we should continue giving excuse as to the non-availability of resources when the toll gate plaza arrangement or the tolling project was ideally meant to facilitate revenues for us to address the issues of the dilapidated road network.

Madam Speaker, it is my desire that the Government, through the Minister of Finance and National Planning and the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development critically looks at this report and implement its findings.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Madam Speaker, allow me to begin by thanking your Committee that undertook the preparation of this report, particularly, on the subject of toll fees.

Madam Speaker, it must be placed on record that one of the items that would have appeared in this report, which I assume was not tackled because it was not in the scope, relates to the sharing mechanism between local authorities and the Central Government, in as far as toll fees are concerned.

Madam Speaker, the Constitution of the Republic of Zambia recognises that one of the exclusive functions of local authorities is to manage toll fees. When the Constitution of Zambia says, “exclusive functions”, it simply means that there is no other institution in Zambia, not even the National Road Fund Agency (NRFA) or the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, should handle toll fees.

Madam Speaker, given the reality that the Central Government needs money to undertake other activities in this country, it is important therefore, that part of the recommendations in this report was that a sharing mechanism be established between local authorities, the 116 councils in Zambia where all of us come. This means that the toll fees which are meant to be revenue for the Central Government should actually be utilised even at local level in terms of road works. What the hon. Member of Parliament for Nkana is referring to can easily be handled if the Constitution of the Republic of Zambia is respected in as far as the sharing mechanism for toll fees is concerned.

Madam Speaker, firstly, I would have loved to see in this report the recognition that there is a provision in the Constitution. Before we talk about an Act of Parliament or all those other regulations that the Chairperson, Hon. Mubika’s report has referred to, there must be recognition of a supreme law in Zambia called the Constitution.

Madam, the Constitution of Zambia is very clear and instructive. If there is a toll gate in Kalumbila, it is the council in Kalumbila that should manage toll fees and not the Central Government. Given that scenario, I recommend that further to the items that have been captured, there must be an item that should recognise the need for a sharing mechanism. This can allow those who come from different constituencies to simply request the local authorities to give them money from the toll fees to work on the roads. That is the only way the local people are going to agree to an increment or adjustment in terms of toll fees.

Madam, people will never see the benefits of the current amounts of money they are paying until the benefits are localised. So, firstly, I want to appeal to your Committee to take note of that very important submission.

Madam Speaker, secondly, there has been talk on funding for roads in Zambia. We are aware that the Public-Private Partnership (PPP) initiative will be implemented for the Lusaka/Ndola Road. It is important that some form of legislation is established for the revenue generated through the PPP. Right now, the Public-Private Partnership Act does not specify how much money should go, for instance, to the developer. It is up to the Ministry of Finance and National Planning or the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development to negotiate with the developer.

Madam, I think that the law must be very categorical and the framework clear so that if we are going to construct a road from Ndola to Lusaka as a private developer, the terms must be in a public document. It is something we should be able to interrogate as Parliament.

Madam Speaker, my second submission is that the Public-Private Partnership Act should be amended to deal with this particular component of specifying. If someone from Europe wants to come and develop a road in Zambia, he must be guided by the law. We should not leave it to three or four individuals to negotiate with those developers because then, the country may be disadvantaged.

Madam, my second submission is that the Public-Private Partnership Act of 2009 be amended to capture the funding model for roads that have to be undertaken because eventually, there will be toll gates that will be placed on those roads.

Madam Speaker, thirdly, your Committee did tour certain facilities and it did some form of benchmarking on how things are done both inside and outside Zambia, both outside and locally. The public outcry is that there are very few Zambian contractors participating in the road sector. Actually, if the numbers were provided by the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development, we would realise that the majority of the road works in Zambia had actually been done by foreign contractors.

Madam Speaker, do we have legislation that protects Zambians? What does the 20 per cent policy on sub-contracting entail? Is it a decision of a ministry or it is provided for in the legislation? The Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development needs to bring to Parliament a Bill, which provides for that percentage to be placed in an Act of Parliament. Currently, we are relying on a piece of document that is simply called “Policy on sub-contracting”, which shows that the conversation has started. It also shows that other previous hon. Ministers took the initiative to ensure that there was some form of support given to Zambian contractors.

Madam Speaker, therefore, on the Floor of the House, I want to urge the  hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development that we want to see a law that deals with reserving specific road contracts for Zambian contractors. When we say Zambian contractors, we are not talking about a foreign company that registers in Zambia. We are talking about an engineering company owned by indigenous Zambians, who have worked in the industry formany years and have the capacity to construct a road and acquire finance. Those should be given the opportunity to participate in the road sector so that even as we place toll gates on these roads, we know very well that Zambians have participated.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Dr Mwanza (Kaumbwe): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for giving the people of Kaumbwe this rare opportunity to echo their sentiments on the report tabled on the Floor, which talks about the implementation of the National Road Tolling Programme in Zambia.

Madam Speaker, from the onset, permit me to thank the mover of the Motion, Hon. Mubika Mubika, the seconder, Hon. Munsanje, and the entire Committee on Transport, Works and Supply.

Madam Speaker, the objectives of the study were very clear because they highlighted issues concerning the National Road Tolling Programme. The House may be alive to the fact that road network, planning, and construction comes with a heavy cost. In our country, roads are in a very dilapidated state. This is confirmed in the report by your Committee’s tour of duty through the stakeholders’ meetings which were held in Ndola and Chingola on the Copperbelt.

Madam Speaker, for any country in the world to inspire economic development, there is need for good road infrastructure. There is an adage in Chinese which says, jingji fazhange nzhe hau dau lu zou, which means that economic development follows good road network.

Madam Speaker, when we have roads which are passable, the cost of goods and services will keep – For example, in Kaumbwe, if a farmer grows tomato and takes it the market which is more than 60 km away, and it takes that farmer about four to five hours, by the time he will be reaching the market, the tomatoes would have been damaged because of the bad condition of the road.

Madam Speaker, coming to the adoption of the work programme which your Committee undertook, I wish your Committee had benchmarked all the toll gates. It should have sampled all the classes of toll gates in the country.  For instance, we have three types of toll gates which are: Class A, Class B, and Class C and your Committee visited each one of those classes. This entails that the statistical perimeters concerning the collection of toll fees cannot be well projected for the country. It is difficult for people to understand how much money is collected from these toll fees.

Madam Speaker, however, looking at the geophysical location of Zambia, we are likely to become an economic hub in the Southern Africa. The previous Government, the Patriotic Front (PF)’s aim to replenish the economic development of this country was based on a robust infrastructure, which included road network. The Government did a tremendous job in terms of constructing trunk and ring roads in the country. The local authorities in charge of township roads did not get a share of the money from the National Road Fund Agency (NRFA). To that effect, looking at the local tours that your Committee undertook, it is very clear that –

Mr Chaatila: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Chaatila: Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity to raise a serious point of procedure.

Madam Speaker, I think you have been observing that we are struggling to hear our hon. Colleagues who are debating from the Amphitheatre. I happen to be one of them and that is why you have seen me move to the Chamber. In the Amphitheatre, even the picture of the debaters or people who are talking cannot be seen. It is very difficult to see them. We are struggling to even hear what the hon. Member who is debating now is saying.

Hon. Members: He is speaking Chinese.

Mr Chaatila: I do not think he is speaking Chinese. I will protect him on that one.

Madam Speaker, my point of procedure is whether this House is in order to allow hon. Members to sit in the Amphitheatre and struggle to follow the proceedings?  Even as we sit here, we are struggling to hear what our hon. Colleague is saying from that side. I seek your guidance on that issue.

Madam Speaker: Thank you, hon. Member for Moomba, for that point of procedure that you have raised. I was actually liaising with the Information and Communication Technology (ICT) officers to find out what was wrong with the acoustics because at one point, I thought the hon. Member was now speaking Chinese.


Madam Speaker: Anyway, if the hon. Member wants to continue, I suggest that he moves to the Chamber, to debate, so that we can hear what he is saying. Otherwise, we will lose out.

I have seen that the Chamber is actually empty. Hon. Members have gone out. I do not know what is happening. So, the hon. Members who are in the Amphitheatre, can move to the Chamber now so that we can listen to the debate.

In the meantime, arrangements are being made with the Ministry of Health to seek guidance on how we can sit, especially that most hon. Members are now vaccinated. So, it is a problem that is ongoing, but for now, I think hon. Members sitting in the amphitheatre are not benefiting and we are not benefiting from their contributions. Thank you very much. So, hon. Member for Kaumbwe, please, do move to the Assembly Chamber and you will be given an opportunity to debate. As you do that, we will call upon another hon. Member to debate.

The hon. Member for Chipili may take the Floor. I am sure he is also in the amphitheatre. 

Mr Chala (Chipili): Yes, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Okay. Hon. Member for Chipili, please, come and take your place in the Assembly Chamber. The hon. Member for Solwezi East may take the Floor now.

Mr Katakwe (Solwezi East): Thank you very much, Madam Speaker, for according the people of Solwezi East, Mushindamo District, to add their voice on the report on Transport, Works and Supply.

Madam Speaker, in supporting this report, I really want to point out a few things that are very important. On page 5 of the report, I see the administration of the road fund in relation to the fees and its application to road construction, maintenance and rehabilitation. That aspect of the report is quite important. Page 8 of the report talks about the Tolls Act, Section 17(a), to be amended. This recommendation is actually very important because it highlights the fact that we need to have a certain percentage of the proceeds from toll gates to be applied in the construction, maintenance and care of public roads, especially those leading to toll gates.

Madam Speaker, just when approaching the check points before Katuba and Manyumbi toll gates, one needs to be careful if one is driving a vehicle with a low base because the road is dilapidated. This bad stretch is just next to where toll fees are being collected. That does not sit well with safety on the roads. I want to give an example of the Kenneth Kaunda International Airport (KKIA) Road. It used to be in a bad state, but then it was resurfaced. We do not need to wait until we have a Public-Private Partnership (PPP) on board in order to resurface some of these roads. Where roads are totally bad, that small percentage which are realised from the toll fees can be used to repair those same roads.

Madam Speaker, for example, in 2017, Katuba Toll Plaza had a volume of 6,300 vehicles per day, translating into K10 million realised per month. That was quite a lot of money, such that even 0.002 per cent of that money could be used to resurface or maintain the roads that led to these kinds of toll gates. That is quite imperative. So, this report is good in my view.

Madam Speaker, I would have loved the report to highlight certain areas that have been neglected for some time. For instance, we talk about a Statutory Instrument (SI) that was passed to open the Sakanya Border as an exit point so that traffic could be decongested. We normally see heavy traffic from Mufulira turnoff all the way to Chingola up to Kasumbalesa. The people of Solwezi East would have loved this report to address the aspect of opening up the Solwezi/Kipushi Road that passes through my district to the Zambia/Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) border, because that border is only 30 km away from the economic zone in the DRC as compared to the distance of 100 km plus to Kasumbalesa.

Madam Speaker, if that road was opened or an SI passed to make it an exit point, even in its gravel form, that road would bring in revenue especially, if a toll gate was constructed. We can actually decongest the trucks that have been marooned for a week, a situation that is posing a public health concern. Where do these drivers go when they need to answer a call of nature? That is quite embarrassing for this country. There is an opportunity for the Solwezi/Kipushi Road to be opened. Even in its gravel form, it has the potential to bring revenue to this country.

Madam Speaker, let me talk about the Solwezi/Chingola/Mutanda Dual Carriageway. Priority should have been given to the construction of that road in order to divert traffic. It would only take two days for the trucks to move through that road to Katima Mulilo Border. Right now, it takes about a week plus for trucks using that same road through Lusaka to get to Namibia, and so on. I think this report should have highlighted that aspect because when we decongest these roads, we reduce road carnage.

Madam Speaker, I would have loved the report to also highlight the issue of maintenance of these roads. For instance, the road signs and markings on our roads are really pathetic in this country. We do not need to wait until we have donors on board or engage into the PPPto just maintain roads and road signs. If you drive from town to Manda Hill, you will see that the road markings are already gone. You have to think about where the lane is, especially at night and when it is raining. So, safety should be prioritised with regard to road construction and maintenance. 

Madam Speaker, I thank you and I do support this report with regard to the areas that I have highlighted, on behalf of the people of Solwezi East Constituency, Mushindamo District.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker: I see that the hon. Member for Kaumbwe is in the House. The hon. Member for Kaumbwe may take the Floor:

Dr Mwanza: Thank you so much, Madam Speaker, once again. My point was that your  Committee report –

Madam Speaker: Sorry, hon. Member for Kaumbwe. There is a point of order from the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu:

Mr Kampyongo: No, Madam Speaker. I just indicated to make my contribution. It is not a point of order. He can continue.

Madam Speaker: Alright, I see.

Mr Kampyongo: Hopefully, he can also repeat the Chinese term; we did not follow it properly.


Madam Speaker:I know as you repeat, time will be running out. Please do, and you do not have to exhaust your time, you can yield a few minutes to the next hon. Member. Proceed, hon. Member.

Dr Mwanza: Okay, I will repeat the Chinese term: jingji fazha ngenzhe hau daulu zou.


Dr Mwanza: Madam Speaker, economic development follows good roads. The report clearly states that Zambia has more than 76,671 km classified road network but only 40,000 km is the core road network and is in a very bad state.

Madam Speaker, I will just go straight to road financing. From the statistics in the report, we have thirty-seven toll gates. Twenty-seven toll gates are inland and ten toll gates are at ports. The report shows that the toll gate with the highest collections is the Michael Chilufya Sata Toll Plaza on the Copperbelt, where 10,000 vehicles pass per day. From a simple regression analysis or mathematical equation, Zambia can benefit at least K2.5 billion per year from toll gate collections.

Madam Speaker, hon. Members can see that it will not take us forty years to pay back the debt. It will only take us about five years. According to the report, we have a debt of K10 billion which was allocated to the road sector. From the calculation, if we collect K2.5 billion per year, it means that we barely need five years to pay back the debt. Hence, our recommendations as the people of Kaumbwe specify that the National Road Fund Agency (NRFA) be exclusively used for road maintenance, construction and rehabilitation.

Furthermore, let us explore the avenues of Contract Finance Initiative (CFI). We should also go further by using other avenues of the PPP. Under the PPP aspect, we can use certain toll gates as concession agreements with the developers. This can be used as collateral. It pains that on Road T2 (Great North Road), motorists pay so much money and yet, the surrounding roads which are the artillery roads are so bad. It demeans the good will of the people to pay these toll fees.

Madam Speaker: Order!

The Hon. Member’s time expired.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: The hon. Member who spoke Chinese reaffirms the all-weather friendship between Zambia and China


Mr Chala (Chipili): Madam Speaker, before I go any further, let me salute the mover and seconder of the Motion which is before this august House.

Madam Speaker, I support the findings of your Committee on the usage of funds that are collected from the toll gates. Every time people pass through the toll gates, they pay toll fees and they think that money goes straight to the Road Development Agency (RDA). They point fingers at the RDA for failing to rehabilitate the roads.

Madam Speaker, in my view, we could probably, come up with a regulation that whatever is being collected from the toll gates every month, 40 per cent is given to the RDA to ensure that all the potholes we see on our roads are attended to. That way, the RDA will have no excuse.

Madam Speaker, in the report, some witnesses talked about weigh bridges. The weighbridges are very cardinal. If we want to sustain or protect our roads, we need to use weighbridges to ensure that trucks are controlled by looking out for overloaded ones because they are damaging our roads. The money that we are collecting, for example, from the trucks which are coming from Nakonde is not enough. Most of these trucks are overloaded and they only pay US$140. Usually, a truck which is coming from Nakonde will only be checked at Mpika Weighbridge and only pays US$140. Now, on that stretch from Nakonde to Mpika, there is no weighbridge which can ascertain whether the vehicle is overloaded or not. If we compare the fine that the transport pays to the damage that the transporter causes to the road, it does not tally. Therefore, the Executive should look into that to ensure that all the entry points have weighbridges so that as trucks are entering Zambia through Nakonde, Mufulira or Kasumbalesa, they are checked to protect our roads. Otherwise, without weighbridges, we will talk and talk and it will be very difficult for us to maintain our roads and they not reach their lifespan.

Madam Speaker, with these few remarks, I support this Motion.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for giving me this opportunity to make a few comments on this Motion ably moved by the hon. Member of Parliament for Shangombo.

Madam Speaker, the previous Administration which I belonged to, did a lot of analysis to bring different streams of revenue into the baskets of the National Road Fund Agency (NFRA) to ensure that the maintenance policy of our infrastructure, specifically roads, was practical because that had been a challenge for a long time. I must commend those who ensured that they came up with a legal framework. However, what needs to be done in addressing the concerns raised by the hon. Member for Nkana, the hon. Member for Kaumbwe and the hon. Member for Kamfinsa is to harmonise the provisions in the Constitution of Zambia, the National Road Fund Agency Act and the Tolls Act. As your Committee observed, there has been some kind of disjoint. The mandate of working on the roads has also been very clear. The RDA is supposed to be dealing with the main trunk roads. The Local Government’s mandate is to look at our township roads and those in our localities.

Madam Speaker, whilst the toll fees were supposed to go strictly to the maintenance of roads where this money is collected, that money ends up in the pool at NRFA. We have weighbridges, points of entry and many other avenues that are contributing to this same pool. So, it becomes very difficult to specifically channel the money that comes from toll fees to maintenance of roads because of the nature in which the National Road Fund Agency Act has been structured. So, it will be prudent for the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and urban Development and the hon. Minister of Justice to see how they can harmonise this mismatch. I am sure the hon. Minister of Justice is listening. This mismatch needs to be addressed. If we do not address it, it will be very difficult for people to appreciate. They have already accepted. That mechanism has a way of contributing to the maintenance of roads because it is there to make people’s lives better.

If we do not address this mismatch, we will end up with what is obtaining on some of the roads. I can give an example of the Great North Road, our get way to East Africa, where we have at Chilonga –

Mr Mundubile: Arthur Wina!

Mr Kampyongo: Arthur Wina Toll Gate., the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development will agree with me that immediately after that toll plaza, the road is damaged. When one just pays at the toll plaza, he will then go into hell run. Of course, we had started working on the stretch between Nakonde –

Mr Nanjuwa: Question!

Mr Kampyongo: Question should be meaningful. Do not question what you do not understand.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, do not react. Just debate.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, there are road works that were commenced all the way from Nakonde, Isoka, up to Chinsali, and I am sure the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development has been there. Once those works are completed, no one will demand for another toll plaza on that stretch. However, the opposite is the one I am talking about, where there is a hell run immediately one pays a toll fee and starts off. I think, Madam Speaker, passed through there and did not want to go back to that stretch. She had to use another route.

Madam Speaker, in order to make people appreciate that they are contributing to the maintenance of the roads, it is very cardinal to harmonise these pieces of legislation. The local authorities that are supposed to be receiving a chunk from the pool where this money is kept will need to be clear about how much they should collect and from which roads. I think that is the only thing that is missing. Otherwise, I think people have the desire to do that as they are paying and passing through those toll gates. I do not know whether it is the same with weighbridges.

Madam Speaker, we have seen that the wear and tear of our roads is mostly due to overloaded trucks and abnormal cargo trucks that move on these roads. So, how do we strike a balance that those that contribute to the wear and tear of our roads by carrying overloaded cargo pay a little bit more than ordinary motorists? Again, it comes back to the legal framework which spells out who has to contribute more than the other. This is so because the way we damage the roads is different.

Madam Speaker, the other thing that the hon. Minister needs to take care of as we do the maintenance of roads is to re-engineer the potions where vehicles have to stop for instance, the Chisamba Check-point. You will find that the wear and tear of the road is moving at a faster rate. So, we can replicate what has been done at the exit point of Lusaka, as you are going to Katuba, where the potions have been re-engineered because there are constant stoppages of motor vehicles. The hon. Minister can liaise with the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security, as well as the hon. Minister of Transport and Logistics through the Road Traffic Safety Agency (RTSA), that in as much as they are security checkpoints, I have always said that there is need to work with the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development to re-engineer these portions of the road because there is so much damage that is caused by motor vehicles, especially heavy cargo trucks. This is what is causing the wear and tear of the road.

Madam Speaker, I think it is important that we quickly harmonise the pieces of legislation that are dealing with the toll fees and ensure that the pool where we are channelling these toll fees is made clear because we cannot contravene the National Road Fund Agency Act. So, it is just a question of harmonising the pieces of legislation and we get it right.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mwambazi (Bwana Mkubwa): Madam Speaker, thank you for allowing the people of Bwana Mkubwa to contribute on this Motion. Most of the things have been highlighted by the hon. Members who have been debating. However, I just want to comment on a few things. Let me thank the mover of the Motion on this Report, the hon. Member for Shangombo.

Madam Speaker, this is a very important Report because it hinges on development. With good road network, it entails that –

Madam Speaker, I have got a cold and I am struggling to breathe. Would you kindly permit me to remove my face mask? I am fully vaccinated.

Madam Speaker: You can remove the mask.

Mr Katakwe: Do not remove your jacket.

Mr Mwambazi: Thank you, Madam Speaker.

I am not removing the jacket.


Mr Mwambazi: Madam Speaker, like I was saying, good road network means that people will quickly take their produce to the market and that the economy will pick up. I will just comment on three issues in the report. The first one is the administration of these toll fees. When fees are collected, they are deposited in the Single Treasury Account, where they are comingled with other funds and then finally used for many things.

Madam Speaker, these funds can be cupped and used for road maintenance which is very important to our roads in this country. The Government has the capital outlay in the construction of roads but it does not have anything for the maintenance of these roads. You will find that a small pothole will be neglected and by the time it gets to three or four months, mending it will basically become a big challenge. In the end, we will have bad roads in this country. So, it is very important that some of these funds which are collected from the Zambians are put to good use like maintenance of roads.

Madam Speaker, let me also just highlight the issue of the legal framework in terms of road maintenance. There have been position papers even by the European Union (EU) partnering with the Government to ensure that our roads, where so much money is spent, are well maintained. However, some of these position papers have not been – We have policies but they are not implemented. It is unknown why it is done like that. If these funds are properly channelled and roads are maintained, we will ensure that those funds are extended to other roads which are not properly maintained.

Madam Speaker, in the report which has been generated by our hon. Colleagues in your Committee, on page 6, it is talking about three if not six pieces of legislation. It also talks about the National Road Transport Policy of 2019 and the Tolls Act No. 14 of 2011. It is important that some of the pieces of legislation are harmonised to ensure that they give us what is required in terms of road maintenance in this country.

Madam Speaker, the introduction of toll gates in this country has enabled this country to have non-tax revenue. How do we ensure that we enhance the collection of this revenue? It is also important that we introduce things such as easy tolls where people can pre-pay to ensure that the Government enhances the collection of this revenue.

Madam Speaker, in my conclusion, I want to say that it is very important that pieces of legislation such as the Toll Act No 14 of 2011, the Public Roads Act No. 12 of 2002, the National Road Fund Act No. 13 of 2002 and the Road Traffic Act No. 13 of 2022 are harmonised to achieve some revenue that will ensure our roads are maintained adequately as we construct them at high premium. This way, roads like the Ndeke Mini-Mart Road will be maintained through such avenues.

Madam Speaker, I support this report.

Hon. Member: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Let us hear from the past to correct the future. Hon. Member for Pambashe.

Mr Chitotela (Pambashe): Madam Speaker, I sympathy with the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development. The hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development is basically a technical advisor to the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning. That is why I have not asked the hon. Minister a question concerning the road sector because the money which is meant for the construction of roads under the loans and investment sits in the Ministry of Finance and National Planning. The only money the hon. Minister has is for operations. It depends on the good will of the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to authorise those funds. So, we can hug and fight with the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development here but he is just a technical advisor. He cannot sign a contract or advert without the approval of the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning.

Madam Speaker, I have read through the report. What compounded the problem further in the road sector is the 2016 Constitution that allows all the money collected to be put in Control 99. This entails that all the moneys collected from the public infrastructure in Zambia must go into Control 99.  The money then goes into the Ministry of Finance and National Planning’s account, which then apportions it.

Madam Speaker, further, the Public Financial Management Act, in compliance with the Constitution (Amendment) of 2016, also vests all its powers in one person in the Ministry of Finance and National Planning. That is why, when the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development stands up and mentions the Public-Private Partnership (PPP), I wonder how he is going to proceed. That can only be done when the Constitution of Zambia and the Public Financial Management Act are amended. As the legal framework stands now, we will sit here debating and nothing will change until those two pieces of legislation are attended to. It is a legal requirement because we passed it here in Parliament. We will ask him a thousand questions, but he will depend on the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to give him responses.

Madam Speaker, fortunately, the Public Financial Management Act was passed when my brother, Mr Mutati was hon. Minister of Finance then. I argued that we were killing the road sector. Their argument was that they were doing it in compliance with the Republican Constitution.

Madam Speaker, your Committee referred to the Public-Private Partnership Act. This Act has no powers now; it is toothless. All the powers have been swept to the Public Financial Management Act. So, when an idea of road tolling came, we had an understanding that we needed to create another pool of finance for road rehabilitation, construction and maintenance, little did we know that once that became a subject, it would create unnecessary interests and people would say a lot of things about Road Development Agency (RDA). In the report, it is stated that this ministry is just a technical advisor. It does not pay. It just receives the invoices and passes them to the Ministry of Finance and National Planning which then, pays the ministry through the National Road Fund Agency (NRFA). When we stand here and ask the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning and hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development to provide answers, we are shooting in the wrong direction and leaving the right direction.

Madam Speaker, maybe as Parliament, what we need to do is to agree that we amend some provisions in the supreme law of this land, which is the Constitution. Article 210(1)(2) and (3), makes it very difficult even for the private sector to invest in Zambia. The Public Financial Management Act also makes it impossible for that to happen.

Madam Speaker, how do you bring in the money to invest in the Ndola dual carriage way and then you, the owner of the money, you have no control over the same? The Ministry of Finance and National Planning collects the money and puts it into Control 99. At the end of the month, the ministry will issue a cheque. Who will risk doing that? You can only take your investment where you know you will have control and be able to monitor the growth of the investment.

Madam Speaker, therefore, the report is good, but how I wished it had tackled the legal framework. It would have implored Parliament to agree to amend the Republican Constitution and the Public Financial Management Act. That way, all these issues of the councils and people not benefiting from the toll plazas will find a solution. However, as long as we do not attend to these two legal provisions, we will keep talking and asking the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development and he will have no answer. All the money is sitting in the Ministry of Finance and National Planning.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

The Minister of Green Economy and Environment (Eng. Nzovu): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for giving me time to debate the Report of the Committee on Transport, Works and Supply ably presented by Hon. Mubika  Mubika and Hon. Munsanje.

Madam Speaker, it is only befitting that I also contribute as a fellow of the Engineering Institution of Zambia (EIZ). This is a sector which has put us in a debt crisis at a time when we are failing to pay interest rates. This is a sector which has depleted the coffers of the country and I will quote from the report. Under Part V, shoddy works –

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, the point of order is on the hon. Minister who is speaking. I did raise this point of order earlier on last week. I said that when reports are tendered on the Table of the House, only hon. Ministers in the Executive arm of the Government whose portfolio functions are speaking to the report are supposed to react to the report. It is very important that we hear from the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning and hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development. First and foremost, it is because they have to react with a written statement, which will go on the record for government assurances. The reaction of the Executive goes to the government assurance record.

Madam Speaker, I do not want to gag the hon. Minister’s debate, but he is in order to say “a fellow engineer” as if he is speaking for the Engineering Institution of Zambia (EIZ)?


Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I am on the Floor.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, let us give a chance to the hon. Member.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, what generated my reaction is not because the hon. Minister does not have the right to debate, but when he rises and talks as if he is representing EIZ here, we have got a challenge because we have got portfolio ministries that are supposed to react to this report with their written submission, which will go to the government assurance record.

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious guidance.

Madam Speaker: Indeed, if you saw how I have planned my order of calling on debaters, the hon. Minister of Green Economy and Environment is just debating, but the responses will be provided by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning and hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development. Since there were no debaters from the United Party for National Development (UPND), I thought I could give an opportunity to the hon. Minister of Green Economy and Environment to also debate. So, he is not specifically responding on behalf of the Government. I thought that is the way we can balance our debate, unless there is a Standing Order which stops the hon. Minister from debating.

May the hon. Minister continue.

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, the EIZ empowers me to ensure that the Act or the law is protected. I am a very senior engineer and I must say that I do not leave my engineering profession outside this House, I carry it with me.

Mr Mundubile: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, the Committee report talks about shoddy works –

Madam Speaker: Order!

Let me just give guidance. Hon. Members, let us just debate. Let us not interrupt because now we are running out of time. May the Leader of the Opposition raise his point of order, but I think we have ruled on those issues.

A point of order is raised.

Mr Mundubile: Madam Speaker, yes, you rightly guided. However, this House is governed by certain practices. I know you refer to Standing Orders and as earlier mentioned, the current Standing Orders are undergoing review.

Madam, Dr Musokotwane, as the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, understands this. The appropriate responses should come from the hon. Ministers aligned to those particular reports. You have allowed the hon. Minister of Green Economy and Environment to make submissions, but I think the moment he starts talking about the Engineering Institute of Zambia (EIZ), he goes a wrong way. You allowed him to respond just as an hon. Member of Parliament and not necessarily to represent other institutions because the right ministries to respond to this are the Ministry of Finance and National Planning and the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Green Economy and Environment, therefore, in order to come to this House and begin to give his opinion as a member or a fellow of the EIZ, when the mandate to respond resides with the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development? I seek your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: I think what should happen is that the hon. Minister should debate as an hon. Member of Parliament and not as a representative of the Engineering Institute of Zambia (EIZ) because if we do that, we will then be breaching our own practices.

May the hon. Minister debate as an hon. Member of Parliament.

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, I simply stated that I am a fellow of the EIZ. I am not speaking on behalf of the EIZ. I am speaking for myself.

Madam Speaker, I can understand the apprehension from my fellow contractor, the hon. Leader of the Opposition and I sympathise with him because of where he has found himself.

Hon. PF Member: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.


Madam Speaker: Order, order!.

Let us not debate each other. We were doing very well and debating very well, just before we come to the end of debating the Motion, then we have all these disruptions. Let us debate with no interjections. There should be no debating from the seats. When the hon. Members were debating, there were no interruptions. So, let us allow the other side to also debate. Let us learn to give each other an opportunity and learn from each other. That way, we will make progress and we will have harmony in the House.

Hon. Minister, as you proceed, please make sure that your do not injure other hon. Members as you debate.

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, let me straight away quote from the report.  In the report, under the Committee’s Observations and Recommendations states,

“viii. Shoddy Works

“The previous Committee had observed with great concern that the number of substandard works had increasingly been exhibited by both local and foreign construction companies resulting in financial loss to the clients and a danger to consumers in some instances.

The Committee had urged the Government through NCC to ensure that due process was followed in the awarding of contracts to ensure that contractors were adequately and properly screened to ascertain their capacity to execute the given projects”.

Madam Speaker, under the same Committee’s Observations and Recommendations,

“ix. Poor Professional Ethics

“The previous Committee had observed that poor professional ethics mainly manifested through corruption as a major problem in the Zambian construction industry, and that corruption resulted from lack of transparency in awarding of contracts and non-disclosure of beneficial owners of bidding firms.”

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, this is where the cracks of the matter are. Historically–

Hon. Opposition Member: Toll gates!

Eng. Nzovu: Yes, indeed the toll gates. Very well constructed.

Madam Speaker,–


Madam Speaker: Order, order!

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, may I be protected.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, can we debate. Otherwise, I can give you two minutes to shout so that it gets out of your hearts.


Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, this is a sector which was highly abused as shown by your Committee. This is a sector which has resulted into bad infrastructure left. The hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development and the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development, came to this very House and reported a number of abandoned projects where colossal sums of money were spent.

Hon. Government Member: Or arrest them!

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, there was an aim by the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development to name and shame. I urge it to do so. This is a sector which basically was handed over to foreign entities. This is a sector responsible for the lack of medicines in the previous regime because the resources which were supposed to have been utilised properly were squandered.

Madam Speaker, our report, …

Hon. Member: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Eng. Nzovu: … states that the RDA is an institution with the highest concentration of engineers. In the last ten years, those engineers were reduced to spectators and yet, that institution possesses laboratories, a research unit, and as said already, a very high concentration of engineers.

Madam Speaker, you guided very well when you gave the Floor to one hon. Member that you wanted to listen to the past in order to correct the future. Again, I am proud to say that our methodical approach is to make sure that the man occupying the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development is basically there to correct all the wrongs. This is a technical man whom we believe will bring sanity into the sector because he will ensure that the RDA, the NRFA, all other institutions including the National Council for Construction (NCC), are left to run the sector in a professional manner.

Madam Speaker, the Ministry of Small and Medium Enterprise Development has been created to ensure that local contractors are also capacitated. This is the vision of the New Dawn Government. The New Dawn Government will ensure that local contractors come first, unlike in the previous regime which supported contractors with expensively and grandiosely priced projects, which were poorly executed.

Madam Speaker, I want to encourage my friends on the left to work with us to clean up the mess that they left so that together, we can grow this sector.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Eng. Nzovu: Together, we can have infrastructure that will ensure that there is development in this country.

Madam Speaker, -

Mr Kampyongo remained standing.

Mr Kampyongo: The hon. Minister is using unparliamentary language.

Madam Speaker: So, the only problem is that we have two hon. Members standing at the same time. Now, I do not know what to do.

Mr Kampyongo: My point of order, Madam Speaker, is to bring to the attention of this august House that the hon. Minister is using unparliamentary language.

Madam Speaker: Which one is that? I did not –

Mr Kampyongo: He used the word “mess” …


Madam Speaker: From the context I –

Mr Kampyongo: … and yet the mess is, as we know,…

Mr Chaatila: On a point of procedure, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kampyongo: …one of the toll gates which was being talked about, which is the Manyumbi Toll Gate.

Mr Chaatila: On a point of procedure, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Shiwang’andu, please, I have understood the point. From where I am sitting, I did not find the context in which the word “mess” was used to be unparliamentary. As we debate, let us –


Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, as a senior member, I wish to state that we will ensure that we lead in the right way and that our hon. Members on the left see where we are taking the country, including in this sector, a sector which we will ensure brings development to this country. Let them come along with us.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: There must be some raw nerves somewhere.

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane): Madam Speaker, I thank you very much for this chance to make some comments on the report that has been presented before this House. I also want to thank your Committee for a thorough work it did to produce the report on this very important sector in our economy to do with road infrastructure.

Madam, I stand to respond to issues raised by the hon. Member for Pambashe. It is important that I respond to them because if I do not, members of the public will be left misguided or misled regarding what the truth is.

Madam Speaker, in his debate, he bemoaned the fact that the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, the Treasury of the country, is over controlling the finances of the country, including the money that is due to the road sector. In that sense, he was implying that the Treasury is stifling progress in the road sector.

Madam, my view is the complete opposite. I would say that the problems we are going through today are because the finance laws of the country were disregarded in the last ten years.

Mr Kampyongo: Question!

Dr Musokotwane: What do I mean by that? The finance laws say that we should not give a contract or procure unless we have got money. That is what it says, but we all know that in the last ten years, road contracts were distributed anyhow without any assurance of financing. The end result is that today so many roads have been left hanging and uncompleted because they did not pay attention to the law which says they should not give out a contract if you have no money.

Madam Speaker, I remember the Vubwi/Chipata Road. When there was a by-election in Vubwi, machines were mobilised there. The electorates in that by-election were told that if they voted for them, the Vubwi/Chipata Road in Chipata would be constructed. Thereafter, indeed, during the campaign, less than half a kilometre of the road, perhaps, even a100 m stretch, my engineer brother here can say, maybe less than 200 m or there about, was tarred. The day after the elections, all that equipment was demobilised. To this day, ten years later, this road has remained the way it was. It is unattended.

Hon. Government Member: Shame!

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, today, we hear about so many arrears for people who were hired by the Government to do roads. Whether the roads were done or not, the arrears are there.  They have not been paid. The problem is that at the time, there was no reference to what the law said. The law says, “Do not give out a contract unless you have got money”. If they had obeyed the law, today we would have no arrears. Today, we are faced with a situation whereby, most of the money that we have, we are merely paying to sort out arrears.

Madam, let me just give another example of why it is important to have the finance laws and why they must be obeyed. Today, the country is carrying a huge debt on its shoulders. The debt has led to the situation where we are busy paying out loans. There is hardly any construction taking place because of this careless handing out of contracts that was done without reference to the finance laws. This is why it is important that the finance laws are obeyed.

Madam Speaker, during that time, the Treasury was overrun because hon. Ministers would come and ask the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to borrow money. When the Treasury would tell them that it could not sustain that uncontrolled manner of borrowing money because in the end, it would bring us problems, those powerful Ministers would go and report that the one who was delaying the development of roads was the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning and have them removed. The Treasury was overrun when it was supposed to be the goalkeeper. It is the one with a notebook like this one (pointing at a notebook) which stops borrowing when it is too much, but they were overrun. The end result is this chaos that we have today whereby, the country is indebted.

Madam Speaker, is there any sector that has contributed to the problems we are facing today, which have permeated our society in so many ways like exchange rate swings and inflation? All these are coming from the road sector because people did not want to obey the financial laws of the country.

Madam Speaker, we are not going in that direction because as one can see, it has created a problem for all of us. Lack of adherence to the financial laws of the country pressurised the country and the Treasury to over borrow. Today many of us ask the question: Where did this money that was borrowed go?

Madam, we are going to make sure that Treasury’s laws are obeyed. We will sort out these debts and then organise money in a more organised fashion, following the laws, to work on the roads.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi): Madam Speaker, it was interesting to see that as my colleague the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning was giving his statement, the Leader of the Opposition was scratching his head.


Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I wish to thank you for this opportunity to respond to the Committee’s findings and recommendations. I thank them most sincerely for their excellent work.

Madam, as the Government, we accept your Committee’s findings that call for the revision of the Tolls Act No. 14 of 2011, in order to improve the management and administration of the National Tolling Programme and the National Road Fund.

Madam Speaker, your Committee rightly observed that many roads have not received appropriate attention in terms of maintenance and this could affect the public’s willingness to pay tolls which are intended to supplement Government budget based on allocation to the road sector.

Madam Speaker, the implementation of the road maintenance strategy for the period 2015 to 2024 has indeed been affected by the constrained fiscal environment being faced by the Government. The ministry has however, taken not of the recommendations of your Committee urging the Government through the Road Development Agency (RDA) and the National Road Fund Agency (NRFA) to work out modalities that will ensure that a significant portion oftheroad tolls are allocated towards road maintenance particular, of roads at that are tolled.

Madam Speaker, the roll-out of toll stations is guided by the NRFA Road Tolling Programme which has identified roads that can be tolled to support domestic revenue mobilisation for road maintenance. Therefore, the programme will proceed according to the roll-out strategy. However, as observed by your Committee, the roads alone which these toll stations are placed need to be maintained before and after placement of toll stations in order to encourage our citizens and other road users to comply with the law on road tolling, and help with supporting the Government to strengthen domestic resource mobilisation for the road infrastructure development and maintenance.

Madam Speaker, indeed your, Committee rightly observed that the portion of the roads fund from toll collection is not adequate to meet the current demands for road infrastructure development and maintenance. I wish to appreciate your Committee’s recommendations to line ministries to pursue private sector involvement through the Public-Private Partnership (PPP). This is what the current Government is vigorously pursuing.

Madam Speaker, the New Dawn Administration is effectively engaging private sector participation in road and other infrastructure development as recommended by your Committee. The debt burden inherited from the previous Administration from over commitments in the road sector has left the New Dawn Government with very little option but to draw on private sector involvement through the PPP.

Madam Speaker, the Lusaka/Ndola Road is a priority project for the Government. So far, the procurement of a concessionaire to develop the roads through the PPP has reached an advanced stage. The Government is hopeful that emergency works to the badly damaged sections of the road will be undertaken by the successfully concessionaire once awarded the contract in order to alleviate the stress current faced by the commuters and to ensure the safety of road users.

Madam Speaker, your Committee’s observation of traffic congestions at toll stations, example of Shimabala and Sabina toll gates given in the report during pick hours is regrettable and will be addressed accordingly through improvement and efficacy of toll stations. The toll stations are not meant to delay or slow traffic flow. Everything possible is being done to improve efficiency and safety at toll station. This includes the implementation of E-Tolling.

Madam Speaker, once resources are available, the national road tolling programme envisages to upgrade toll stations through the development of request infrastructure that will make the operations more efficient and conducive to our toll collection staff. This upgrade will include toll stations such as Mpongwe Toll Facility, which is currently a class C facility. The security of all toll stations, regardless of class of facility is an issue of priority to the Government. Therefore, as observed by your Committee, the Government will ensure that security at all stations is enhanced including risks resulting from over grown vegetation around the toll stations.

Madam Speaker, the ministry has taken note of your Committee’s recommendation to consult the Attorney General on the issue of the apparent conflict between the Tolls Act No. 14 of 2011 and the provisions in the Republican Constitution (Amendment) No. 2 of 2016 with regards the allocation of tolling functions between the Central Government and the local authorities. The Attorney-General will be engaged accordingly. This issue may also be dealt with as Government embarks on the Constitution Review Process.

Madam Speaker, the Government is concerned with the constrained flow of traffic at Kasumbalesa Border Post. In the recent past, the traffic congestion has reached as far back as Kitwe. It is the Government’s plan to improve efficiency at the border and provide for a smooth flow of traffic. The Government is already executing plans to upgrade the Chingola/Kasumbalesa Road to a dual carriage way in order to ease the congestion that occurs along the roads due to heavy traffic volumes.

Madam Speaker, the Government has since invited expression of interest and proposes to develop the road to dual carriageway. Similarly, the Ndola/Sakanya/ Mufulira Mukambo Road has also been advertised for development using the PPP. The development of Mukambo and Sakanya boarders are expected to ease congestion at Kasumbalesa.

Madam Speaker, as I conclude, I wish once again than your Committee for its work. and appreciate the recommendations. As the Government, we have taken note of the recommendations and will incorporate them in our programmes.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mubika: Madam Speaker, I want to thank my hon. Colleagues from both sides who have debated this Motion. I also thank the three hon. Ministers who added their voices to this Motion.

Madam Speaker, I thank you,

Question put and agreed to.


The Vice President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.


The House adjourned at 1229 hours until 1430 hours on Wednesday, 7thJuly, 2022.