Friday, 12^th November, 2021

 

The House met at 0900 hours

 

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

NATIONAL ANTHEM

 

PRAYER

_______ 

 

ANNOUNCEMENT BY MADAM SPEAKER

 

NHIMA REGISTRATION

 

Madam Speaker: Hon Members, I wish to inform the House that the National Health Insurance Management Authority (NHIMA) has been authorised to conduct registration of, and issuance of membership cards to, hon. Members of Parliament and staff. The exercise will take place from Tuesday, 23^rd to Thursday, 25^th November, 2021, from 0900 to 1700 hours on each day, at the main reception area, here at Parliament Main Buildings. All hon. Members are urged to find time to register with the NHIMA.

 

I thank you.

 

_______

 

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

 

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, let me give the House an indication of the business it will consider next week.

 

Madam, on Tuesday, 16^th November, 2021, the Business of the House will begin with Questions for Oral Answer, if there will be any. This will be followed by the presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will continue the debate on the Motion of Supply on the 2022 National Budget.

 

Madam Speaker, on Wednesday, 17^th November, 2021, the Business of the House will start with Questions for Oral Answer, if there will be any. This will be followed by the consideration of a Private Member’s Motion entitled “Give 100 per cent scholarship” to be moved by Mr D. Mung’andu, the hon. Member of Parliament for Chama South Parliamentary Constituency. After that, the House will deal with the presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. The House will then continue with the debate on the Motion of Supply on the 2022 National Budget.

 

Madam, on Thursday, 18^th November, 2021, the Business of the House will commence with Questions for Oral Answer, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will consider the presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. After that, the House will continue with the debate on the Motion of Supply on the 2022 National Budget.

 

Madam Speaker, on Friday, 19^th November, 2021, the Business of the House will start with The Vice-President’s Question Time. Thereafter, the House will deal with Questions for Oral Answer, if there will be any. The House will then consider the presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Then the House will continue with the debate on the Motion of Supply on the 2022 National Budget.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

_______   

 

THE VICE-PRESIDENT’S QUESTION TIME

 

Mr Mundubile (Mporokoso): Madam Speaker, power supply in the recent past has been very stable owing to the huge investment that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government put in the energy sector to ensure that there was sustainable energy supply.

 

Hon. Member: Question!

 

Mr Mundubile: This is a fact that even the current hon. Minister of Energy attested to, that there has been, indeed, huge investment in this sector. However, we have now seen long hours of load shedding in the recent past, something that has disturbed our Small and Medium Enterprises (SMEs) that depend on this energy. What is the Government doing to resolve this problem going forward?

 

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Leader of the Opposition and the Member for Mporokoso for the question on power cuts. He premises his question on what he says as the heavy investment having been put in place. That being the case, all of us must be concerned as to what is, therefore, happening. If there is so much investment and assurance that there is enough power being generated, that should be an issue of concern. As the Government, we are following up on the matter. This is a management issue. We have been told that some generating machines are being upgraded and serviced at Kafue Hydropower Station, Maamba Collieries Plant and I think in Ndola. I, however, do not know how long that will go on.

 

Madam Speaker, we are definitely concerned about that and a ministerial statement will be issued, so that all the details are brought out. Otherwise, I agree with the hon. Member that this is a matter of concern because if there has been so much investment and assurance in the generation of enough power, why should there be such issues? One would think that it is important for management to upgrade in stages so that we do not have such issues. However, we are still getting information from management and the Government will issue a statement as to what is really going on. As I have said, it is a matter of concern and we hear the hon. Member. It is a concern for every Zambian. The effect of this cannot be underestimated on the Small and Medium Enterprises (SMEs) and that also includes on the big industries. So, we understand and we are following up this matter seriously.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Kambita (Zambezi East): Madam Speaker, I want Her Honour the Vice-President to categorically answer my question emanating from the cries of the public or the whole nation, which caused the hon. Leader of the Opposition to ask that question regarding the situation at ZESCO Limited. Members of the public believe that our Government has been too slow to remove Patriotic Front (PF) cadres in influential positions.

 

Interruptions

 

Hon. UPND Members: Fire them!

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Members, please, – can you stop the clock. Can we have some dignity and observe decorum in this House. When I listened to the radio yesterday, I was so disappointed that hon. Members could behave in such a manner. We have to maintain the dignity and decorum of this House. I implore the leaders of both sides to ensure that their Members comply. We cannot turn this House into a place where there is the usage of unpalatable and unparliamentary words by some hon. Members, who know themselves. That will not be accepted.

 

Hon. Member for Zambezi East, you can proceed.

 

Mr Kambita: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for your protection. The PF Manifesto is very clear. It clearly states that the PF shall put their members in senior positions in parastatals and government institutions. Therefore, the same management whom we feel could be sabotaging ZESCO Limited are PF cadres.

 

Hon. PF Members: Question!

 

Mr Kambita: Madam Speaker, why is our Government so slow to remove the PF cadres? As I speak, the managing director at ZESCO Limited is still the one in charge. How do we expect load shedding to come to an end if PF cadres are still being kept in important offices, including in many other government offices, and some are still directors?

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Mumba: Who is going to remain in the office if you fire everyone?

 

Madam Speaker: Does the hon. Member for Kantanshi want to answer that question?

 

Laughter

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I will use the word ‘alleging’ – the hon. Member said that we have been too slow to remove some people whom he said are cadres. I want to start by saying, yes, there is a concern out there that many chief executives and other senior members in the Government are holding those positions based on the Patriotic Front (PF)’s constitution, as the hon. Member said, which clearly states that for one to hold certain position, one has to be an uncompromising member of the PF. That is what the PF constitution says. Therefore, people may have been put in those positions professionally, but that statement simply removes all the confidence in the officials running Government institutions.

 

Madam Speaker, on the fact that we are slow, some people may have been appointed because of the clause in the constitution of the previous regime, but we want to do things according to the legal provisions of our own national statutes. We do not want to remove people anyhow. We have to look at what they are doing, their contracts and their capability and capacity to adapt. So, we are looking at these things and we do not want to just wake up and say everybody must go. We will not do that.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: We have heard the concerns of the Zambians, but since we want to do things professionally, they will surely go at the right time. I stated that if one was politically appointed, one will be politically removed. So, one holding any position knows that he/she is there –

 

Mr Lusambo: Eba MMD aba!

 

Laughter

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member for Kabushi, order! You are not allowed to interject while seated. I do not like to name people while I am seated here. From here, I have a vantage point and I can see all of you.

 

Her Honour the Vice-President, you may continue.

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, so, truly Zambians are concerned because it is important that the people who are put in strategic positions understand the vision and do not fight the vision of the Government of the day because of being biased towards maybe a party that may not be in power. So we will do it, but we will do it well.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member referred to ZESCO Limited. The President does not appoint the management or managing director of ZESCO Limited. That is done by the board. However, it is the responsibility of the President or the hon. Minister to put in place a board and we will not rush to put cadres in the boards. We want professional work and, the ZESCO Limited Board has been appointed. So, if there is a need to remove the current managing director at ZESCO Limited, it shall be done properly …

 

Interruptions

 

The Vice-President: … including other senior officials in the Government. They will be removed properly and lawfully. We are not going to be lawbreakers, but surely, we expect people in Government offices to function for Zambia and not to act like saboteurs. When one does something wrong, one is not doing that wrong thing against President Hakainde, but the Zambian people.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: So, as long as one is still in a Government office, one should do the work properly before one is removed.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Madam Speaker, I want to put it to Her Honour the Vice-President what the Patriotic Front (PF), the former Government, is claiming and alleging. When the PF left the Government, the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) which it used to allocate to constituencies was K1.6 million. Now, the Opposition is claiming that there is no value in the raising of the CDF from K1.6 million to K25.7 million. It is saying that the Government is running way from its responsibilities and shoving the job of development on the shoulders of hon. Members of Parliament. I want Her Honour the Vice-President to comment on that allegation.

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, thank you for that question in which the hon. Member says the Opposition, and names the particular Opposition party that is not happy with the issue of the raising of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) figure from K1.6 million to about K25 million, is alleging that the Government is running away from its responsibilities.

 

Madam Speaker, if that is true – I heard somebody debate like that in this House; so, it must be true that there are assertions that the Government is running away from its responsibilities. It is extremely unfortunate to understand things in that way. I thought, particularly for us hon. Members of Parliament in here, that we have a duty to explain to the people of Zambia the implication of the raising of the figure to about K25 million.

 

Madam Speaker, it was made clear in the Budget Speech that the intention is basically to take the money where it is needed. I think all of us here must understand that over a long period, we have struggled to decentralise, and because of power fights, some of us that are in Lusaka still believe we should run a fully centralised Government so that we feel that we have the power of control.

 

Madam Speaker, we have gone through this. I was an hon. Minister and we struggled. Our colleagues came in and they also struggled. What has been done is a means of decentralising. It is the devolution not only of power, but also resources which should go down to work for the people of Zambia.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: It is not easy for the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to allocate resources in Kaputa where he has not been or does not stay to the real critical issues that concern the people there. This decentralising of resources means that the people of Shangombo know exactly what they want and because they know their priorities, they are able to allocate the resources according to their needs.

 

Madam Speaker, therefore, I call upon this august House to take up the leadership we need to explain because, he who feels it, knows it. We have been representing constituencies and we know the needs out there. We, therefore, should be very appreciative that, for once, people will sit and say, ‘we need to work on this particular project’.

 

Madam Speaker, the other goodness of the CDF increasing – in fact, for me, I would pray that next time, hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, when we grow the economy and have more money, we should increase the CDF ...

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: ... because, at the end of the day, we also need human resource to also be devolved downwards to give more capacity to local authorities for them to be able to carry out and execute the roles that the people on the ground need.

 

Madam Speaker, surely, can one say this is running away? Running away from what? What is Government? Are we not a democracy? A Government of the ...

 

Hon Government Members: ... the people and for the people!

 

The Vice-President: ... the people and for the people. That is what we are. That means the people on the ground will now have a say in exactly how they want to develop. Of course, there will be support from the Central Government. However, as I said, it will also mean changing the structure.

 

Madam Speaker, let me take this opportunity to say this; some people have even talked about the capacity to execute and disburse – We are looking at regulations. We may have to also look at legislation that affects the disbursement and use of the CDF so that it is properly used, guided by qualified people.

 

Madam Speaker, we are not running away. We are simply saying let the people of Zambia have their own say. Let Kaputa know that it can build a clinic in the right place.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Madam Speaker, immediately the Patriotic Front (PF) took over power in 2011, it decided to annex two districts from the Southern Province, which were Itezhi-tezhi District and Chirundu District...

 

Mr Chitotela: Cuundu chaitwa.

 

Mr Sing’ombe: ... without consulting stakeholders.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Which stakeholders?

 

Mr Sing’ombe: Now, one of the apparatus that the New Dawn wants to use to develop this country is decentralisation. I want to find out from her Honour the Vice-President the position of the New Dawn now that we are going to decentralise. Will the Government consider taking back these two districts to the Southern Province as they are supposed to enhance revenue collection in this province?

 

Mr Chitotela: Cuundu chaitwa.

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, thank you for the question asked by the hon. Member for Dundumwezi, who has a concern and uses the word ‘annex’. I do not know what he means. Annexing from what to what? It is basically, taking certain districts to other provinces where they did not belong, and in this case, we are talking about Chirundu and Itezhi-Itezhi. However, he may have to remember there is also Chama District, which has two constituencies.

 

Madam Speaker, I do not think I would sit here and say this is the way. What is important for us is to listen to the people that are concerned. We have had ten years of having these constituencies in areas where you would think they were not supposed to be. What we believe in, in this Government are consultative processes. We cannot just sit here and say that now we are sending you back. We may just find that these people are very happy for Chama District to be in Muchinga Province. So, we will listen to what they are saying themselves. If they want to go back because they feel development will be better, that is okay. However, decentralisation may not be affected by where the district belongs because we are talking of decentralising up to the constituency level.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, let me state that sometimes, there are issues of sentiments whereby people feel they must belong to certain places. It is a very important emotion. Therefore, we will listen, and if there is need for these districts to go back to where they had been, we will do the needful. As for decentralisation, it goes on with or without restoration to the old provinces.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, the human-animal conflict in Nabwalya Chiefdom of Mpika District is so rife that whatever people cultivate is grazed by animals. As a result, there is widespread scarcity of food. As I speak, there is serious hunger in Nabwalya Chiefdom. When does the Government intend to take relief food to Nabwalya, if there is such an intention?

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Mpika Central for the question on the issue of human-animal conflict in Nabwalya. I believe Nabwalya is in Lavushimanda?

 

Mr Kapyanga: It is in Mfuwe, Your Honour.

 

The Vice-President: Do we still have Mfuwe?

 

Mr Kapyanga: Mfuwe is in Lavushimanda, Your Honour the Vice-President.

 

The Vice-President: I am sorry, Madam Speaker.

 

Laughter

 

Madam Speaker: I do not know about this conversation that is going on.

 

The Vice-President: I am sorry, Madam.

 

Madam Speaker: It is okay. You can proceed.

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, it is a known fact that there is a animal-human conflict in Nabwalya. The issue of taking food relief because of the scarcity of food has always been there. The Government is committed to helping communities that have food deficits under a department in the Office of the Vice-President. This has been done and will continue to be done. We will look at how to look after our people who have lived in those areas.

 

Madam Speaker, let me, however, also say that I am sure there will be a statement on human-animal conflict that will be more comprehensive. We will continue to support people that are affected by this conflict.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mutelo (Mitete): Madam Speaker, we need to heal as a nation. There are too many tribal remarks being made in Zambia. What would be Her Honour the Vice-President’s counsel to Zambians, since we are one?

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I am thankful for that concern raised by the hon. Member for Mitete that there are too many tribal remarks. He asked for my counsel. So, it is not me giving an answer, but it is my thinking and counsel to us in this House and, through this House, to the nation. We are truly one. We are one Zambia and one nation.

 

Madam Speaker, the last thing you want to hear is tribal thinking, particularly from leaders. We should never be remembered as people that divided our nation on tribal lines. We have an opportunity, by being hon. Members of Parliament today, that we can work together to ensure that we unite. In the United Party for National Development (UPND) Manifesto and as the UPND in the Government, it is imperative that we unite and, once again, feel the oneness. There is no way people should start thinking and talking on tribal lines.

 

Madam Speaker, in fact, the Leader of the Opposition, who is a lawyer, understands very well that according to the Penal Code of our country, anything tribal or that incites people on tribal lines is an offence and perpetrators should be prosecuted.

 

Hon. Government Members: Yes!

 

The Vice-President: However, I think we have left it for a long time. The hon. Member asked for counsel. We have left ourselves to think on tribal lines for too long. Let us once more see each other in the eyes of being Zambians created by God and put on earth through this nation of Zambia.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: What always happens is that we want to appeal to tribal sentiments, but that should not be allowed. If we continue on that path, it is you who is talking on tribal lines who has a problem and who may be prosecuted because you are a Zambian. That is all.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: If there is an issue, tackle it as a man or as a woman. Do not hide in tribal sentiments.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: This Government sees us as one. As Dr Kaunda said, man north, man south, man west and man east. We are all humans. I thank the hon. Member for Mitete. Let us not allow ourselves to be tribal. Are they are using tribe to hide their wrongs? Eh-eh!

 

Hon. Government Members: Shame!

 

The Vice-President: Zambians are awake. They observe and they know. If we choose to go the wrong way, they will not stand with us. My hon. Colleagues here, we are in the Government today and we should do the right thing. When we do wrong things, they will follow us. Even our village mates will turn against us because we are the ones who are wrong and not the tribe. There is no tribe that does wrong.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: We are all Zambians. No tribe can be condemned because in every tribe, there are witches, thieves and people that do everything you can think of.

 

Laughter

 

The Vice-President: So, there is no tribe that can be described as bad. Let us accept one another. We are one Zambia, one nation.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, I appreciate the responses coming from her Honour the Vice-President. Indeed, we should not allow a space where people should be classified as cliques.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, when I returned from Kaumbwe before Her Honour the Vice-President went there, I did alert her about the frustrations of our poor farmers with regard to the marketing and distribution of empty grain bags. Your Honour, as I speak to you now, our farmers in Shiwang’andu –

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

May the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu speak through the Chair?

 

Mr Kampyongo: Through you, Madam Speaker, our poor farmers in Kawambwa, Shiwang’andu, Chipata Central and Kaumbwe, where I had been, are still struggling. They have not been paid by the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) and are now struggling to transport inputs on their own. We have heard statements that military equipment will be used to distribute farming inputs in certain areas.

 

Madam Speaker, the food security of the nation is under threat as we go into the next season. This is November, what is the message of the Government to our poor farmers so that they can be encouraged once they know the policy direction which will be taken in the farming sector?

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, thank you for the question raised by the hon. Member of Parliament for Shiwang’andu who is concerned about our farmers, firstly, not being paid and secondly, he raises the issue of food insecurity in the country. Maybe, I start with the food insecurity situation.

 

Madam Speaker, this Government is doing everything possible to ensure there is no food insecurity. In fact, we were blessed so much in the last season that there was so much maize which is our staple food. A national assessment has been done with regards to food security. There has also been a regional assessment and I assure the hon. Member and Zambians at large that Zambia is extremely food secure for now. We just pray that as we get into the coming season, we will have fair rain. Of course, we expect floods in certain areas just as we expect droughts in certain areas. Basically, there should be enough for us to eat.

 

Madam Speaker, on the issue of certain farmers not being paid, I think we have made it clear in this House before that we have had a situation whereby the planning for this season captured only some farmers. I think I said in here that about 500,000 metric tonnes is what was captured as the amount of maize that would be procured through the Food Reserve Agency (FRA). Indeed, I believe that there were resources put aside for that.

 

Madam Speaker, this House will remember that the implication of looking for grain bags, which the hon. Member has referred to, is for the extra maize that was not planned for. I stand to be corrected by my hon. Minister, but we have had to procure and provide for another 400,000 metric tonnes of maize above what was planned for. That means even as we procured that, there was no money. When we were giving those bags to the farmers, we made it clear that we were going to look for money to pay them. We could not pay them immediately because it was not planned for.

 

Madam Speaker, similarly, we came here and spoke about the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP), which was in two parts; the (Electronic Voucher) e-Voucher System  and the Direct Input Support Programme (DISP) because the two are related. Remember that we have had to vary the expenditure on these programmes. We had to help those who are on the e-Voucher Programme, who were totally disadvantaged by getting K1,700 from the Government against others who got about K4,000 from the Government. We have had to normalise this, which meant more expenditure.

 

Madam Speaker, the only thing I would say is yes, our farmers are anxious because they need to continue working. This is their livelihood and the Government is doing everything possible to ensure that those farmers whose maize was taken, the 400,000 metric tonnes, are also paid. The hon. Minister is working with the Ministry of Finance and National Planning to ensure that is done. The Government knew that it was way above what was planned for, but we will surely pay the farmers. Our people are working on it, and they will pay the farmers.

 

Madam Speaker, but let us also not say that these people have not paid their K400 advances. We started getting this maize well after they had already paid their advances. So, we do not expect that there is anybody who has not done so. Almost all the farmers had already made the K400 contribution for the farming inputs. They had already done that before we decided to get the 400,000 metric tonnes. That means nobody can say I have not paid the K400 because I have not been paid. We will continue to struggle to ensure that our people have food and they continue with production as we look at diversifying in terms of agriculture. We have beautiful plans.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. Masebo entered the Assembly Chamber with her back against Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: May the hon. Minister of Health please not give me her back.

 

Mr Sampa (Matero): Madam Speaker, I thank you and good morning your Hon. the Vice-President, Mrs W. K. Mutale Nalumango.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Sampa: Madam Speaker, most eminent Zambians are where they are because of the generosity of the Government through the provision of meal allowances mostly from the United National Independence Party (UNIP), Government. I am a beneficiary of the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) meal allowances, coming out of Matero, without which I would not have finished my university education.

 

Madam Speaker, when will the New Deal Government give meal allowances to the University of Zambia (UNZA) and the Copperbelt University (CBU) students?

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, this is truly a New Dawn and thank you for the greetings hon. Member of Parliament for Matero. Truly, you are right. Many of us and I in particular, would not stand here if the Government of the day did not generally care about education. I think I would be in Kaputa. Hon. Chitotela may know, and I do not know what I would look like today.

 

Mr Chitotela: Yes.

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, this Government is extremely concerned with the issue of education and not just meal allowance, but providing education in general. It is fortunate that this meal allowance was there during his time. It was there until just a few years ago when the previous immediate past Government decided to remove meal allowances. We are working to see how that situation can be restored. Remember generally what we have said is that for us, it is free education progressively. When we say free education, that will include meal allowances at the right time. This free education is up to secondary school level in this Budget, and on behalf of my hon. Colleagues here on your right, we are believing in the drastic growth of this economy.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: Therefore, when we give meal allowances, that will be inclusive in the bursary, then the Zambians will see it. We do not want anybody to drop out of school because of lack of meal allowances. I am sure with the money that is around, I think a child coming from Kaputa should not be left out. I know I am not the Member of Parliament for Kaputa, but at least, I know it very well.

 

Mr Chitotela: For ten years?

 

The Vice-President: No, I was born and grew up there. So, I have known it for more than ten years. I am a villager right from there. We will not allow a child to stop school because of lack meal allowances. We will squeeze the money from somewhere. Those children from Kaputa must be helped to go to school. Indeed, we still struggle, but we will go on. Thank you for the concern hon. Member. You can trust this team to work on that.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr P. Phiri (Mkaika): Madam Speaker, the interns whose internships contracts were terminated last month in October have not been paid their salaries for September and October. When is the Government going to pay these people, considering that they only received a K1,500 salary.

 

Madam Speaker: Sorry, hon. Member of Parliament for Mkaika. The question is not clear.  Who has not been paid?

 

Mr P. Phiri: Madam Speaker, the interns.

 

Madam Speaker: Which interns? For which institution?

 

Mr P. Phiri: Madam Speaker, this programme was for the development of youths. Youths were contracted to work in various ministries or departments or fields. Some were employed as teachers while others were employed in the health sector. These people were being paid through the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Arts. These people’s contracts were terminated last month, but they have not been paid their monies.

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, what was said was a little mixed up. I do not know who named these teachers interns. Defining an intern becomes difficult, but I think I understand what he said. He said that these are teachers who were working part time. I do not know whether we should call them interns. Indeed, there are some who have not been paid. I have been briefed that it is not two months, but one month. The Government through the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Arts is working on this with the Ministry of Finance and National Planning. These people will be paid in a few weeks time.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

____

 

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

 

RECENT UNREST AT UNZA

 

The Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts (Mr Nkandu) (on behalf of the Minister of Education (Mr Syakalima)): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity to deliver a ministerial statement on the recent unrest at the University of Zambia (UNZA).

 

Madam Speaker, as you may be aware, all categories of unionised employees had effected a go-slow at UNZA. This was followed by a protest by the student populous. These happenings resulted in serious disruptions of normal daily operations at the institution.

 

Madam Speaker, the causes of the disturbances partly arose because of deep-rooted misunderstandings between UNZA management and the three unions, particularly with regard to the payment of gratuity and retirement entitlements. Meanwhile, student protests arose from a management decision to have all the students pay their tuition fees in full before writing examinations, which are scheduled to begin on Monday, 15^th November, 2021. Students equally got unsettled by an alleged threat that ZESCO Limited would load-shed the UNZA premises a few days before the examinations are scheduled to begin. The closure of the library provided an immediate spark for the protest.

 

Madam Speaker, allow me to state that disagreements between management and the unions had arisen owing to resolutions by the caretaker university council. The council had resolved that employees needed to agree to scale down their conditions of service before they could be considered for payment of their already accrued gratuities. Another council action was the complete exclusion of all union representatives from being members of the caretaker council. The unions felt excluded from the university’s supreme decision making body. Another serious area of contention between management and the unions was the failure to engage and conclude the 2021 Collective Agreement. The unions contended that management was not ready to offer any package aimed at improving the conditions of service, especially for the unionised employees.

 

Madam Speaker, I wish to mention that I held a meeting on Wednesday, 10^th November, 2021, with UNZA management and three union representatives. This meeting was equally blessed by the presence of the hon. Member of Parliament for Munali Parliamentary Constituency, Hon. Mike Mposha, who is also the Minister of Water Development and Sanitation. The Permanent Secretary (PS) for Technical Services in the Ministry of Education, Dr Jobbicks Kalumba, was also part of the Government team. This august House may note that UNZA is within the confines of Munali Parliamentary Constituency.

 

Madam Speaker, let me state that the stakeholders meeting made six resolutions as follows:

 

1. the misunderstandings between management and the unions which had resulted in the recent disturbances at UNZA have been resolved;
2. the three unions have effectively called off their go-slow and returned to work;
3. we have a sum of K48 million which we as Government have advanced to the management. There is also another K50 million which will be disbursed shortly resulting in the total release of K98 million;
4. management has since been instructed to initiate the payment of outstanding gratuities immediately. The Vice-Chancellor has assured the Government that the misunderstandings involving management, unions and students have been resolved amicably, and that sanity has returned to the highest institution of learning;
5. my ministry shall expedite the process of appointing substantive councils at UNZA and all other public universities as one sure way of improving operations and service delivery; and
6. students who have challenges in paying tuition fees will be allowed to sit for the forthcoming examinations. Such students will have their examination results withheld only to be released when they clear outstanding tuition fees. In addition, students were given a concrete assurance through the hon. Member of Parliament for Munali Parliamentary Constituency that ZESCO Limited had guaranteed undisrupted power supply to the institution.

 

Madam Speaker, let me conclude with an assurance to this august House and the entire nation that the problems which had beset the university in the last few days have been resolved. Going forward, my ministry has encouraged healthy and sustained dialogue between UNZA management, unions and the student populous.

 

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the Ministerial Statement given by the Hon. Minister.

 

Mr Chisanga (Lukashya): Madam Speaker, mine is just to find out if from the resolutions that were passed in the meeting, the hon. Minister allowed the representation of the unions on the council again.

 

Mr Nkandu: Madam Speaker, maybe the hon. Member can repeat his question.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Lukashya, repeat your question please.

 

Mr Nkandu: Madam Speaker, I got the understanding that one of the reasons there is unrest at the University of Zambia (UNZA) is because of the exclusion of university representation on the interim council. I wanted to find out if in the resolutions that were made, there is now representation of union members on the interim council of the University of Zambia.

 

Mr Nkandu: Madam Speaker, the answer is yes. What we have encouraged the union and management to do is to make sure that they always meet and try to sort out whatever problems they may face.

 

Madam Speaker, you may be aware that the unions in the institution were not allowed to bargain effectively with management. So, right now, as the New Dawn Government, we are trying by all means to make sure that the unions have a platform through which they can now dialogue with the management and the council that we have talked about.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Lusambo (Kabushi): Madam Speaker, can the hon. Minister tell this House the real cause of the unrest at the University of Zambia. I am aware that the new doom Government refused –

 

Laughter

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Kabushi, have you have asked your question? Please do not debate, ask your question. You have asked the question and I believe the Acting Minister of Education has heard it.

 

Mr Nkandu: Madam Speaker, the cause of the unrest at the University of Zambia is very clear. I said there was some money that was released by Government to pay the retirees and those who are still serving whose gratuity is due. Now, the management in its own wisdom thought of giving money to only retirees. That created a problem because the lecturers who are still serving were not given anything. Again, we had given them some money and the second allocation again went to the retirees. That incensed the lecturers who then went on a go slow. When they went on a go slow, the students also joined in because as I said, in the ministerial statement, the library could not be accessed because it was closed. We are all aware that they will be writing their exams on Monday. They could not access what they could use to write their exams. So that is why they joined in what was happening.

 

Madam Speaker, there was also the issue of tuition fees, I stated that management was not willing to allow students coming from the vulnerable families to write their exams because of the balances of their tuition fees. Those are some of the issues that sparked the protest.

 

Madam Speaker, I want to also take this opportunity to thank the police in the way they managed the protest. If it was under the Patriotic Front (PF) regime, as we speak today, someone would have died. There would have been many casualties, and students would have been arrested and chocked. I am also happy that the students did not even throw a stone. This clearly shows that really we are in the New Dawn Government, where the rule of law is at the centre stage. So, I think our colleagues on your left should applaud the New Dawn Government that no one was arrested and no one died. When we continue on this trajectory, I think we will be applauded, as a country, for making sure that the rule of law prevails.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Fube (Chilubi): Madam Speaker, the Acting Minister of Education, in his statement, said that one of the deadlocks when they were having a meeting, was a conditionality that there must be the scaling down of conditions of service. I did not understand how the conditions of service which are already signed could be scaled down, by the caretaker council. For them to have reached the resolutions that he read, did the scale down these conditions of service, especially the release of K98 million going towards the same.

 

Mr Nkandu: Madam Speaker, that has been done. Management claimed that there was a directive from the Government to scale the conditions of service down. I think for us, as New Dawn Government, we do not see a reason we should scale down. Therefore, we had to tell them that they should not scale down. Let them just pay the lecturers so that they continue in their portfolios as it has been done before. I think that contentious issue is no longer there because the scaling down will not be entertained by this New Dawn Government.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Munsanje (Mbabala): Madam Speaker, we have definitely heard from the hon. Minister how an inclusive approach improves the results from the student’s protest being very well guided and not having any issues like we used to get tear gassed in the last ten years of the Patriotic Front (PF). One of the contentious issues and causes of the problem at University of Zambia (UNZA) is poor leadership from the UNZA management. I ask the hon. Minister whether the Ministry of Education is considering taking action to change UNZA management leadership because that is one of the main causes of the problems at UNZA. Poor management by the PF aligned leadership at UNZA, who are behaving like secondary school prefects as opposed to being managers of the university is behind the problems.

 

Madam Speaker: I believe that the Vice-President addressed that issue during her question and answer session. So, I do not know if the hon. Member was listening or would like to hear another answer from the Acting hon. Minister of Education, but that question was ably answered by the Her Honour the Vice-President.

 

 Mr Mumba (Kantanshi): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the ministerial statement although I having difficulties to actually agree in totality with his statement because all the issues that he raised are common to the University of Zambia. Point No. 6 where students are not being allowed to write examinations or not to come and participate in the examinations because they are owing tuition fees is normal. However, I want to find out what motivated the students to start going to State House where the President is busy trying to organise this country. What motivated them to go to State House? 

 

Mr Nkandu: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member is saying that he has difficulties in agreeing with the position of the ministry. The answer to what motivated the students to go to State House could ably be answered by the students themselves, but to some extent, I will try to answer the question on their behalf.

 

 Madam Speaker, I have just explained that because of the go-slow, the library was closed. So, definitely the students that are going to write examination should have access to the library. How could they write the examination without accessing the library? So, that incensed the students. That was my answer. Secondly, the students always sympathise with the lecturers because we believe that when we do not motivate the lecturers, it is most likely that they may produce half-baked engineers or graduates. So, definitely, the students will always sympathise with the lecturers to some extent.

 

Madam Speaker, in addition, we mentioned that there was a rumour that went around the campus that they would be load-sheded by ZESCO Limited during the time for the examinations. Obviously, how could they have read the paper if was no electricity? So, that also incensed the students to start protesting, but these are the issues that were resolved.

 

Madam Speaker, let me take this opportunity to also get to the students on what we have agreed upon. It is important for them to run to the ministry when they have an issue instead of rushing to State House. Unless, those issues are not sorted out by the line ministry then, they can find their way elsewhere.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

 Mr Mabeta (Kankoyo): Madam Speaker, I think my question has been overtaken by events.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

 Mr Mwila (Mufulira): Madam Speaker, I want to get a clarification from the Acting hon. Minister of Education with regards to resolution No. 6, where vulnerable students or those coming from vulnerable families have been unable to settle their fees, but allowed to write the examinations and  have results withheld.

 

Madam Speaker, the Unite Party for National Development (UPND) in the Opposition then, promised to raise money through the sale of the Presidential Jet in order to pay the bursaries and allowances due to the students. Since these students are vulnerable now and at the time the results will be ready, they will still be vulnerable, is the ministry planning to settle the fees for the students that are coming from vulnerable families so that they are not inconvenienced at the time that the results will be out by having their results withheld?

 

 Mr Nkandu: Madam Speaker, to some extent, I agree with the hon. Member on resolution No. 6 that the New Dawn Government is very sensitive to the plight of the students and also to the vulnerable children. We have resolved not to chase student because of their vulnerability so that they do not finish their education. So, coming from that angle, we had allowed the students to write examinations. I will not comment on the issue of the Presidential Jet, but say that we should not forget about the promises which we gave the people that no one will be sidelined on the pretext of not having money in terms of completing their education.

 

Madam, the clarification on this issue is that before we had the meeting with the unions and management, we first of all met the students and they promised that if they were allowed to write their examinations, they would definitely settle the remaining tuition fees. So, the Government is very happy that the students promised to settle the remaining balances. To that effect, there is a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) that management and the students will sign attesting to the fact that they should pay the tuition fees before they could access their results. So, they are very happy that the matter was resolved in an amicable manner.

 

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: I believe we have spent enough time on the statement by the Acting hon. Minister of Education. Can we make progress.

 

_______

 

QUESTION FOR ORAL ANSWER

 

KASENSELI GOLD MINE OPERATIONAL PLANS

 

85.    Mr Mumba (Kantanshi)   asked the Minister of Mines and Minerals Development:

(a)        what the operational plans for Kasenseli Gold Mine in Mwinilunga District are; 

(b)         what measures will be taken to ensure that the mine operates optimally;

(c)        how many tonnes of gold, per annum, are expected to be produced when the Mine is fully operational;

(d)        where the funds to invest in the mine will be sourced from; and

(e)        how many direct and indirect jobs are expected to be created at the mine.

 

The Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Mr Kabuswe):  Madam Speaker, may I inform the House that the mineral exploration at Kasenseli Gold Mine has not yet been concluded. Therefore, the current work plan is based on the preliminary exploration works undertaken which covers only about 2 per cent of the exploration licence area. These results will have to be independently verified and confirmed by a competent person once the exploration works are concluded as required by international mining standards.  

 

Madam Speaker, the mineral exploration to ascertain the resource, in the entire licence area at Kasenseli Gold Mine, was ongoing until the Government suspended operations due to safety concerns, wrong mining methods and to pave way to the streamlining of the structure of the mine.

 

Madam Speaker, the Government, through my ministry, will:

 

1. restructure the management and board of the mine;
2. enhance security both within and outside the mine; and
3. engage the Chibwika Chiefdom for the social licence to operate the mine, including all the relevant stakeholders.

 

Madam Speaker, the tonnage will only be ascertained upon the completion of exploration works and submission of mine plans to the Government by the mine.

 

Madam Speaker, the shareholders of Zambia Gold Company Limited, the Ministry of Finance and National Planning and Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines Investment Holdings (ZCCM-IH), have funded the operations this far. Depending on the resource estimation, funds to invest in the mine will either come from additional equity or debt. The shareholders have also planned to raise financing through various means including via the Lusaka Securities Exchange, which would also afford an opportunity for Zambians to directly own shares in the gold mine.

 

Madam Speaker, the number of employees will only be determined after the resource is established and mine planning is complete.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mumba: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for his response. I would like to draw the hon. Minister’s attention to his response to part (a) of the question, on the issue of exploration. Why is the Government taking long to invest in the exploration of this mine to the extent that there are now illegal miners and security is being compromised? Why is the Government taking so long to invest in the exploration works so that the country gets to know the extent of the wealth in terms of the mine operating optimum?

 

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that question. I actually expected that question. In view of the confusion we found at Kasenseli Gold Mine when we visited the mine, we just had to suspend the operations at the mine and to go back to the drawing board because what we found there was not mining. There was just confusion. I do not know what our colleagues in the previous regime were doing with that mine. The New Dawn Government has now taken over and it will sort out the issues at the mine. Kasenseli Gold Mine will soon start operating effectively.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr A. Banda (Chimwemwe): Madam Speaker, are there any plans to grant mineral rights to the small scale miners in Chief Chibwika’s area to allow them to carry out the prospection and eventually carry out mining activities as a way of empowering them?

 

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that question. It was stated in the President’s Speech that small scale mining in Zambia is an integral part of the New Dawn Government’s vision to rump up production in various mines. In the next ten years, we want Zambia to be a haven of the mineral resource that is in the world. So, small scale miners are an important aspect of what we want to achieve and I stated that we will engage the Chibwika Chiefdom, including the chief. We will invite the chief to Lusaka. We also intend to sit together with the hon. Member of Parliament for Mwinilunga so that we can see how we can incorporate our people in Mwinilunga in the mining activities. One of the reasons Kasenseli Gold Mine has failed to operate is because the social licence with the local people is in tatters. People feel they are hard-done-by and that is why we want to involve them. We want to start afresh. So, we want to make sure that everybody is brought on board, and we deal with the issue of the social licence.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Fube (Chilubi): Madam Speaker, what is the current shareholding structure in terms of percentages at Kasenseli Gold Mine?

 

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, I do not know whether the hon. Member was in the House because I stated the shareholding structure. So, the hon. Member must be attentive when we are giving statements.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam Speaker: Actually some hon. Members are busy on their phones. Maybe, that is why they do not listen to the statements.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Katakwe (Solwezi East): Madam Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Mines –

 

Mr Fube: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Solwezi East, resume your seat.

 

Hon. Member for Chilubi, what is your point of order?

 

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, my point of order is based on Standing Order 202 (4). I know that according to the Standing Orders, I am not supposed to rise on a point of order when the hon. Minister is talking, but I have been allowed in this situation. My point of order is on the way the hon. Minister has handled the question that I asked.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, which Standing Orders are you quoting?

 

Mr Fube: Standing Order 202 (4). Can I quote?

 

Madam Speaker: Standing Order 202 (4).

 

Hon. Member, are you alleging that your privilege has been denied in the House?

 

Mr Fube: Yes. I think that was a bit of a rude answer that I got from the hon. Minister.

 

Madam Speaker: I do not know whether the hon. Member wants the hon. Minister to substitute the answer he gave. I believe the hon. Minister responded according to the information that was availed to him.

 

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, not necessarily substitute, but was he in order to respond to me in that manner?

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, that point of order is overruled.

 

Hon. Member for Solwezi East, you may proceed.

 

Mr Katakwe: Madam Speaker, I think our friends on the left are used to confusion.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Solwezi East, ask your question.

 

Mr Katakwe: Madam Speaker, what measures has the ministry put in place with regards to the investors who always say they are exploring, yet they are taking the minerals? They actually duped us. So, even in Kasenseli, some people keep taking the minerals in the name of exploration and going to test them elsewhere. What measures has the ministry put in place so that we do not keep losing revenue?

 

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Solwezi East. We decided to suspend operations at the mine because what we found there was unacceptable, and there were so many linkages at that mine. So, we are investigating what the hon. Member talked about to make sure that the lies that were being told at that mine are stopped forthwith.

                                                                                                         

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Wamunyima (Nalolo): Madam Speaker, is there a time frame for the processes leading to us knowing the estimations of tonnage that will be mined at Kasenseli Gold Mine?

 

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, unless I did not get that question right, but I said that I cannot give an estimation. I do not know whether the hon. Member is talking about the life of the mine or the tonnages that we will mine until the minerals finish. However, when the mine resumes its operations, side by side explorations will be done and we will know the full extent of the whole body and, then, we will estimate as to how long we will take to mine.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mumba: Madam Speaker, that gold mine could be a solution to Zambia’s current challenges. Obviously, when the hon. Minister knows what the whole body is, he will be able to maybe issue a gold bond on the international market, something similar to what Ghana did when it found oil. In this year’s Budget, is there any money that has been allocated for the exploration works to take place? For me, that is the starting point so that we are able to really explore what is available and, then, go to the international or capital market to raise money for the growth of our economy.

 

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, I thank Hon. Mumba for his questions, which are always very progressive. It shows that he cares for the country. In the Yellow Book, money has been allocated for exploration. All I can say in addition is that we still do not have enough money for exploration. Zambia is very behind. We may be at 40 or 50 per cent in terms of the exploration of the whole country. Actually, one of the things that we will be pushing for as we progress in reviving the economy is the allocation of more money for exploring not only gold, but even copper and other minerals. That is a critical part of our ministry. So, we will be pushing for an increased budgetary allocation for exploration in the country. It is a very important aspect. It is something that we are behind in, but I am sure that as we push for more money for exploration, that aspect will be taken care of. However, it is suffice to say that in the current Budget, money has been allocated for exploration though it is not enough.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Twasa (Kasenengwa): Madam Speaker, I believe that Zambia is losing a lot of revenue through illegal gold mining. Many people are given exploration licences, but what happens is that they do not just explore, but end up involving themselves into illegal gold mining. It is not only in Kasenseli, but in so many parts of the country. Muchinga Province and the Eastern Province are also affected. What measures has the ministry put in place to make sure that it curtails illegal activities in the mining sector? 

 

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, when I hear a question about licensing, I do not know whether we had a ministry in the previous regime because of the confusion that we found at the mine. One person was given fifty licences. So, as a ministry, we are moving – One person was given even over fifty licences. Some characters have 45,000 square metres or hectares of land and doing nothing on it, but are just using it for speculative purposes and trading. The New Dawn Government under His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia wants to bring sanity in the mining sector. It is a critical part and component of our economy, and we cannot sit and let rascals and criminals run the ministry through the licences they hold.

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

 Hon. Minister, withdraw the words ‘rascals and criminals’.

 

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, I withdraw the words ‘criminals and rascals’. So, we are actually bringing sanity to the mining sector. The Zambians must benefit from the mining sector. It is not just the rich who should get licences, but every Zambian should get a licence as long as he/she is interested in mining. We are not going to use politics to give licences. Many people were mistreated because they belonged to the United Party for National Development (UPND) and licenses were grabbed from them and such people come to my office every day. That is the reason there are many illegalities in the mining sector because our people feel some people just walk in their chiefdoms or areas with licences without engaging them or their chiefs so they think those people are eating on top of their heads. As such, they are invading the mines because they feel the resources belong to them.

 

Madam Speaker, as far as Kasenseli Gold Mine is concerned, we are engaging the hon. Member of Parliament, Chief Chibwika and members of his chiefdom so that together, we can actually begin mining properly with a proper social licence. We will not only secure a mining licence, but we also intend to look at the social aspect.

 

Madam Speaker, I went to Kasenseli and just the road will tell you that we had – maybe I will be told to withdraw the word I want to use, but we had ‘thieves’ running that mine. So, we want to involve everyone.

 

Madam Speaker: The word ‘thieves’ is unparliamentary. Maybe, you can find a better way to describe those people.

 

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, people who were taking things without permission.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, we now want to involve everyone across the whole country. We want to make sure that Zambians benefit from the wealth that God has given this country. This country is rich. With the right leadership of Hakainde Hichilema, I think that Zambia is going to be on a better footing than it used to be.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr E. Tembo (Feira): Madam Speaker, Kasenseli Gold Mine has the potential to pay the entire Zambian debt and the hon. Minister said that when he went to Kasenseli, he found confusion in the operations of the mine. However, I am disappointed that my brother the hon. Minister said so many things about that mine or was politicking. It is a very important mine and the people of Zambia and I want to understand the confusion that he found at the mine in terms of its operations?

 

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, it makes me wonder why we like talking about politicking every time when everything about life – even when one is born, it is politics. So, we cannot divorce politics from whatever we do because whoever runs the country is a politician.

 

Madam Speaker, in terms of the confusion that we found at the mine, I itemised that in the response I gave and even in the previous statement I issued, and this includes the flouting of the safety rules and poor mining methods. There was just confusion at the mine. The way the ramps there are – unless the hon. Member wants me to go in the technicalities. The outlay of the mine is not how a mine should be and that is why we decided to do what we did. If I were to go into the intricacies of the confusion that we found, we would take the whole day.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

Business was suspended 1040 hours until 1100 hours.

 

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

MOTION

 

BUDGET 2022

 

(Debate resumed)

 

Mrs Chonya (Kafue): Madam Speaker, before we adjourned yesterday, I was saying that the people of Kafue, the former workers of the Kafue Textile of Zambia (KTZ) hope to get a share from this Budget.

 

Madam Speaker, today, I want to conclude by just correcting the wrong submission that was made by the hon. Member for Bangweulu, who claimed that over a thousand schools had been built during the Patriotic Front (PF) Government. That is not true and that should be expunged from the records of the House. The nearest that came to the plan of 120 schools that the New Dawn Government has set, was the Movement for Multi-party Development (MMD) at 115 schools, which schools are at various stages of completion.

 

Hon. PF Members: Question!

 

Mrs Chonya: Madam Speaker, I say to my hon. Minister that even as we embark on the construction of those 120 schools, there will be no harm in looking at what else has been left outstanding from the past. It will be called prudence. I think that instead of abandoning old ones and starting the 120 schools, we are better off starting new ones and also completing those that have been outstanding like Chikupi Secondary School in Kafue, which is a spectacular school, but currently very highly underutilised because teachers cannot go there on account of incomplete staff houses.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

 

Mr Speaker: The hon. Member for Kawambwa indicated, but he is not in the House.

 

Mr Mabumba (Mwense): Madam Speaker, thank you for the opportunity given to me to contribute to the debate on the Motion of Supply regarding the 2022 Budget that was presented by Hon. Dr Musokotwane in this House. I will focus on three things. Firstly, I will look at the Budget in general terms. Secondly, I will focus on the education sector. Thirdly, I will focus on the issue of decentralisation.

 

Madam Speaker, when you look at the K173 billion Budget that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning has presented to this august House on behalf of the Zambian people and the strategic thrust of the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government, they are talking about economic transformation and job creation. However, when I look at this Budget, on page 40, although in statistical terms, there is K33 billion that has been provided in terms of economic affairs, there is no sufficient money here to grow the economy. If its a strategic thrust is to transform this economy and it is targeting 3.5 per cent growth, then that is not ambitious enough. The ambitious percentage would have been, maybe, 6 to 7 per cent. There we would say that the Government wants to grow the economy and create jobs for the Zambian people.

 

Madam Speaker, what I expected the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to do, and it is not very late, was to realise that the economic transformation of this country is hinged on developing farming blocks, the Multi-Facility Economic Zones (MFEZs) and investing in the energy sector. The energy sector in this country contributes about 1 per cent to the gross domestic product (GDP). This is why he should have been able to put money in the Budget to grow the economy and create jobs for the people of Zambia.

 

Madam Speaker, when you look at Nansanga Farm Block, for example, it has been allocated K110 million. There is nothing that is going to go in there because the farm blocks, like he recognised, have not been able to attract potential investors. This is because the basic infrastructure in the farming blocks has not been developed. The basic infrastructure in the MFEZs has not been developed in terms of water, roads and power.

 

Madam Speaker, I was hon. Minister of Energy in this country at one time. In the MFEZ here in Lusaka, a lot of companies would want to go and invest in there, but there is no sufficient power. If the hon. Minister really wanted to ensure that there was a strategic thrust about economic transformation, he should have provided sufficient money to the energy sector.

 

Madam Speaker, the Patriotic Front (PF) Government provided 1,300 Mw and invested in transmission lines. I expected the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, for example, to provide money to put up even a wind farm plant in Chama District so that that transmission line from Chipata going all the way to Chama could start exporting power to Malawi and making money for this country.

 

Madam Speaker, moving on, in terms of the education sector, there is a lot of celebration. When you look at what the PF Government did, although the hon. Member for Kafue said that we never added to the number of schools, it added a significant number of schools to this country through different means such as the upgrading of primary schools and the building of new secondary schools. Obviously, credit goes to those who have completed the schools.

 

Madam Speaker, we inherited a number of schools from the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD), which were under construction which we completed and these were 115 schools altogether. We upgraded more than 700 primary schools into secondary schools, and this is why, today, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning wants to recruit 30,000 staff. It is because of those investments which the PF made. Almost K5 billion over the last ten years was dedicated to upgrading schools so that the transition rate from primary to secondary schools could be increased.

 

Madam Speaker, before the investment which we made in 2011 for those who are not aware, we only had 631 secondary schools in this country. Today, when you look at the Education Statistical Bulletin, – it is unfortunate that Hon. Chonya has not looked at that document – although it is not even correct, we added more than 1,000 secondary schools to the portfolio of secondary schools in this country through new investment and upgrading of schools, and everybody here is aware.

 

Hon. Government Members: Question!

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mabumba: They can say, “Question!”, but they are aware. I stayed in that ministry for more than eight years –

 

Interruptions

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member for Mwense, please, resume your seat.

 

Please, as you debate, do not react to comments on the Floor. That is going to destruct you. Remember to debate through the Chair or address the Presiding Officer. You may proceed.

 

Mr Mabumba: Madam Speaker, with that investment, the PF also went on to realise that it needed human capital through private sector participation in terms of the opening up of new colleges and universities. This is why, even the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning was able to say that we had 55,000 teachers who were trained. At that time, the PF employed teachers methodically because the framework was to employ 50,000 plus teachers in ten years. By the time the PF left office, more than 30,000 teachers were employed. It is the only Government at the time which employed the highest number of teachers as compared with the MMD and the United National Independence Party (UNIP), all the years put together.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mabumba: Madam Speaker, we are delighted, but if they want to recruit 30, 000 teachers they have to recognise that the K1.7 billion Budget that they have added is going to swallow the growth for the Ministry of Education in this country because that is a huge amount of money that the hon. Minister has added to the portfolio.

 

Madam Speaker, even when you look at the free education they have proposed, statistically, primary schools will be getting about K4,000 and secondary schools will be getting about K38, 000. Look at schools like Kamwala and Libala which have about 3,000 to 4,000 pupils. When you multiply that by K200, you will find that they will be losing a significant amount of income as compared to the K38,000 they will be getting on a monthly basis as grant to implement free education.

 

So, we encourage our colleagues to be cautious because the education sector is what can transform this country. It is not just about being popular in terms of those decisions they are making. They need to employ them cautiously.

 

Madam Speaker, lastly, I will talk about decentralisation and the K25 million which has been given. As big as that money sounds, we need the United Party for National Development (UPND) to implement a functional Decentralisation Policy. Yes, we are interested in that money, but on what basis are we going to be using it when there is no Decentralisation Policy that has been implemented? So, all we are asking for is an institutional framework so that hon. Members of Parliament can be protected.

 

Madam Speaker, let us take the hon. Member of Parliament for Kanyama, for example; he is given K5 million as bursary and one particular child is left out. Everybody is going to say that the hon. Member of Parliament is not okay. So, we need to be protected by ensuring that we have an institutional framework in terms of decentralisation and devolution which should be implemented. What is the District Commissioner going to be doing when all the resources have been realigned and given to the hon. Member of Parliament?

 

Madam Speaker, what about the Parliamentary Reforms and Modernisation Committee here at Parliament, is it going to increase the number of staff at the constituency office? Are we going to be supported to make sure that we implement the Decentralisation Policy?

 

Madam Speaker, all we are saying is, yes, that money is welcome, but we need a functional institutional framework in terms of decentralisation because we cannot allow resources to go out when there is no institutional framework. So, all we are appealing for to our colleagues is for them to give us an institutional framework on which the K25 million we have been given is going to be anchored so that our colleagues who are here can be protected.

 

Madam Speaker, many of our colleagues here are new such that they may not be able to know how to mingle around with the politics that the K25 million is going to bring. So, we need to be protected and I know the hon. Minister of Local government and Rural Development is capable enough to deliver a functional Decentralisation Policy.

 

Madam Speaker, with that said, I want to cautiously indicate to the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning that he needs to move very cautiously on the Decentralisation Policy.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Musumali (Zambezi West): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for affording me this opportunity to add my voice, like many others, to the debate on the Motion on the Floor, which is the Motion of Supply, dubbed as the 2022 Budget, delivered by His Honour the Minister of Finance and National Planning, His Honour Dr Situmbeko Musokotwane.

 

Madam Speaker, first and foremost, the people of Zambezi West would like to be on the right side of history by supporting this historical Budget in that it provided all the answers to all the problems that they are having.  Zambezi West Constituency, as you know, is a rural constituency, and just like any other rural constituency has its own share of problems.

 

Madam Speaker, the scraping off of fees in public schools namely, tuition fees, Parent-Teacher Association (PTA) fees and examination fees has delighted greatly the people of Zambezi West in that they were literally not affording these fees. Parents were not able to put their children in schools because of such prohibitive fees. The scraping off of these fees, therefore, will enable children from vulnerable families to be in school and enable them to compete favourably with families who previously were able to manage to pay the fees.

 

Madam Speaker, this will in turn reduce the number of early marriages for children as well as the transmission of diseases like the Human Immune Virus (HIV) and the Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome (AIDS).

 

Madam Speaker, the employment of teachers will reduce the teacher-pupil ratio in that teachers will be deployed to areas like Zambezi West and they will provide the necessary education that was lacking in Zambezi West Constituency. 

 

Madam Speaker, let me talk about agriculture. The mainstay of the economy of a rural constituency such as Zambezi West is agriculture. Zambezi West Constituency has rich plains and the activity for the people there mostly is agriculture in terms of growing rice, pastoral agriculture in terms of keeping cattle and the growing of other crops.

 

Mr Kafwaya: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised. 

 

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, I would like to apologise to my hon. Colleague for disturbing his thought process. I rise on point of order citing Standing Order 65(b), which states:

 

“A member who is debating shall ensure that the information that he or she provides to the House is factual and verifiable.”

 

Madam Speaker, I am alarmed at what is now becoming a trend. Just yesterday, one hon. Minister stated that the President is the Commander of Armed Forces. Today, the hon. Member debating –

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member for Lunte, without interrupting you, that point of order should have been raised yesterday. Today, the hon. Member for Zambezi West is the one who is on the Floor debating.

 

Mr Kafwaya: Yes.

 

Madam Speaker: So, what procedure, rule of practice or privilege has he breached on which you are rising on a point order? What happened yesterday, unfortunately, cannot be brought up today.

 

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, I was referring to a trend. The hon. Member who is debating right now called the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, Hon. Dr Situmbeko Musokotwane, as ‘His Honour’, when this morning we had Her Honour the Vice-President over there (pointing at the Vice-President’s seat) answering questions from your hon. Members on both your right and left. Is the hon. Member suggesting that Hon. Dr Musokotwane has now become the Vice-President? I seek your serious ruling on this matter, Madam Speaker.

 

Laughter

 

Madam Speaker: I believe the hon. Member for Zambezi West is also like everyone else trying to get accustomed to the rules and procedures of the House. So, he can be excused. We do make mistakes once in a while.

 

Hon. Member for Zambezi West Parliamentary Constituency, please, proceed.

 

   Interruption

 

  Madam Speaker: Order!

 

Mr Musumali: Madam Speaker, thank you for that protection.

 

Madam, Zambezi West Constituency is dotted with animal diseases like Contagious Bovine Pleuro Pneumonia (CBPP) and blackfoot disease. The employment of agriculture extension officers and vet staff, as provided for in this Budget, has delighted the people of Zambezi West as they believe that these diseases will be a thing of the past. Hence, they want to be on the right side of history by supporting this Budget.

 

Madam Speaker, innovation in Information and Communications Technology (ICT) has also delighted the people of Zambezi West in that they have been dogged with the provision of communication towers. Zambezi West is one of those constituencies that are underserved as far as telecommunication networks are concerned. The additional funding to the Ministry of Technology and Science to enhance communication in underserved and unserved areas of Zambia will enable the people of Zambezi West to have their share, which the previous Government never provided.

 

Madam, allow me to dwell on the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), which is a step in the right direction. The people of Zambezi West would like to be on the right side of history again by supporting this provision to increase the CDF from a mere K1.6 million to a mega K25.7 million. This provision has delighted the people of Zambezi West as most of the small projects and works will be accomplished by this money that has been provided in the CDF.

 

Madam Speaker, there are other hon. Members who are crying for capacity. It is very unfortunate that someone who is a Member of Parliament can cry that they have no capacity to utilise such funds. The people of Zambezi West have got the capacity to utilise these funds and they believe that this is provided for in the Constituency Development Fund Act of 2018. The hon. Member of Parliament has been mandated by that Act to appoint two members from the community, one member from a civil society organisation, religious groupings, representatives to be appointed by the chiefs, including the director of works from the council, the finance director and the district planner.

 

Madam, now, I do not understand those who are saying they are lack capacity because as you look at it, that composition has the necessary capacity.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mulebwa (Kafulafuta): Madam Speaker, thank you for according me this opportunity to make my humble contribution to debate on the Motion of Supply in this honourable House.

 

Madam, to start with, I wish to introduce myself as an Independent candidate which means I am not going to wear any political hat to present my contribution. I am going to present it as I see the Budget and understand it.

 

Madam Speaker, I carefully listened to the presentation made by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning when he was presenting the Budget and I have also carefully read the Budget for myself. I must say that I note with joy and gladness that the core of the Budget takes the concerns of the Zambian nationals into account and also bears the heart of our beloved President Mr Hakainde Hichilema.

 

Madam, in my maiden speech, I indicated how Kafulafuta Parliamentary Constituency was one of the richest constituencies, but lagged behind in development; lacked clean water and sanitation and did not have sufficient schools, health facilities or staff housing for teachers and health workers.

 

Madam Speaker, listening to the Budget and reading it for myself, I note with joy that all these problems that we have had in Kafulafuta will be a thing of the past.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mulebwa: I had a nightmare when I came to Parliament. I really did not know how I was going to get round the underdevelopment that we have in our constituency. However, when I heard about the whooping K25.7 million – actually in arithmetic we would round that to K26 million because it is above 0.5 – I thought that it was a brilliant Budget which was not going to give me reason to fail to develop my constituency.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mulebwa: Madam Speaker, I note that we have quite a number of pupils in Kafulafuta who have failed to get their results because they did not pay their exam fees and all those other challenges. It cheers my heart to see that the examination fees are no more and I feel that this Budget should be supported by any well meaning Zambian.

 

Madam, last night, I was listening to the news at 1900 hours and I heard the British High Commissioner commending the Budget that was just presented by our able hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning which is an indication that this Budget is fabulous. The Budget is going to answer a lot of questions and be a solution to the many challenges that we have been facing in our constituencies. I have heard some hon. Members in here challenge the source of finances, which are going to make things happen, but I think that we all know that Zambia is one the richest countries in the world. It is just that in the past, we have not managed what we have gotten as a nation well.

 

Madam Speaker, with a Government that is responsible and focused, I do not think the source for money should be a nightmare to any one of us because we have everything that most of the countries do not have yet we still have some of these challenges. I am very confident and positive that this Budget is going to help us as Zambians and cause us to move from our comfort zone to something that is going to move the nation forward. Most times we have preferred to be in our comfort zone and we have failed to rise to the challenges that come before us.

 

Madam Speaker, I should be very proud of this Budget, especially those of us who are determined to work to see this Budget as something that is going to make us perform.

 

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, my constituency did not have sufficient boreholes. The boreholes that were made some years ago are not functional any more. However, with the K26 million, I assure you that water blues will be a thing of the past in my constituency. The schools that we have lacked for many years in my constituency will be a thing of the past and the staff housing accommodation that we have not had in many years will be a thing of the past. So, I really congratulate the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for this well thought Budget, which I will personally support with everything that I have. I am sure that before this term ends, Kafulafuta will be a well developed constituency.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Ms M Phiri (Milanzi): Madam Speaker, I thank you for allowing the people of Milanzi to debate the Supply Motion.

 

Madam Speaker, from the onset, let me state that the Budget is too ambitious and not realistic.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Phiri: Madam Speaker, this Budget has condemned us back into the hands of the International Monitory Fund (IMF) and the World Bank. The people of Zambia should forget about benefiting from our rich mineral resources.

 

Madam Speaker, this Budget does not have the face of a woman and a girl child. It does not respond to the unique needs of a woman. For any budget to respond to the unique needs of women, it has to take into account the fact that gender cuts across every aspect that intends to fight poverty. The women across Zambia and Milanzi in particular are concerned at the lack of gender focused polices and data analysis in the various ministries and departments. They want to know how much money has been allocated to them. There is nothing that emphatically talks about women in this Budget. This Budget has just glossed over issues concerning women yet poverty in this nation carries the face of a woman and the girl child.

 

Madam Speaker, women bear the brunt of poverty in this nation. Among many challenges that hamper women emancipation in Zambia is discrimination in financial support and that is what the so-called New Dawn Government has done through this Budget. The opportunities being talked about in this Budget are not sufficient.

 

Madam Speaker, regarding the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), I am happy to see the desire to implement the Decentralisation Policy. It is, however, important for the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to orient himself on decentralisation. This is to avoid the confusion that has already been highlighted in this Budget, that has a deficit of K37 billion. It is a fallacy to project that in this Budget, K25.7 million has been allocated as CDF for every constituency in this country.

 

Madam Speaker, the fact of the matter is that CDF still remains K1.6 million and the rest of the money is meant for the Central Government’s responsibilities that includes building roads, schools, teachers houses and paying bursaries.

 

Madam Speaker, allow me to say that speed kills. The speed at which the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning and the President are moving at, I am afraid, may land this country into a ditch.

 

Madam Speaker, with this in mind, let me propose to the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to carry out sensitisation workshops for the hon. Ministers and hon. Members of Parliament on CDF measures, operations and guidelines before implementing the Decentralisation Policy in this Budget.

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

Mr Kafwaya: On a point of order, Madam.

 

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, I thank you sincerely for granting me this point of order. Allow me to apologise to my hon. Colleague for disturbing her thought process.

 

Madam Speaker, this point of order is in view of Standing Order 55, which states:

 

“The House shall dispose of business in the order it appears on the Order Paper or in such other order as the Speaker may, for the convenience of the House, direct.”

 

Madam Speaker, we have a practice in this House where business is disposed off in line with what I have just quoted, which means that your hon. Members are aware of how business is going to be conducted. My point of order is: Is the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning in order to stay away from the House when he knows very well that we are discussing his Motion? He cannot even doubt because the order of disposal of business is on today’s Order Paper. Is the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning in order not to be in the House when his Motion is under discussion? I seek your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam Speaker: Indeed, I notice the hon. Minister is not here, but arrangements have been made for somebody to stand in for him as he has taken leave of the House briefly. So, the observation in that point of order is important, but, unfortunately, there is somebody standing in the place of the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning. The Government Chief Whip is here.

 

Mr Kampyongo interjected.

 

Madam Speaker: Other hon. Cabinet Ministers are also here. So, I do not know if the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu wants to engage in a conversation with the Chair.

Laughter

 

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, we are obliged.

 

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much. Hon. Member for Milanzi, please proceed.

 

Ms Phiri: Madam Speaker, allow me to update the hon. Members of Parliament on your right that the Patriotic Front (PF) Administration made tremendous efforts in developing measures that would ensure that there was a smooth flow of decentralisation in this country.

 

Madam Speaker, on education, K18.3 billion has been allocated to the education sector in this Budget. There is no clear, deliberate policy outlining the number of women teachers who will be employed from the 30,000 teachers to be recruited. These teachers were trained by the PF Administration. If more female teachers are recruited, there will be a remarkable improvement in terms of service delivery in the education sector.

 

Madam Speaker, in addition to the existing secondary schools that have been built by the PF Government in Milanzi, in particular, the people of Milanzi would like to have a girls boarding secondary school built to cater for girls in Milanzi Parliamentary Constituency. Putting up a girl’s secondary school in Milanzi will mitigate early marriages and encourage the girl child to be in school.

 

Madam Speaker, the beneficiaries of the Keep Girls in School Programme have been increased to 48,000, but this is not sufficient. The increase should have gone to 80,000 to help keep girls in school up to Grade 12.

 

Madam Speaker, on health, it is the prayer of the women across this country, Milanzi in particular, that they have a share of the 11,000 jobs to be created in the health sector. Inadequate health personnel in health institutions also negatively affects women who are the care givers in most cases.

 

Madam Speaker, the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic is still around. The K13.9 billion proposed for the health sector is not adequate –

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

The hon. Member’s time expired.

 

Mr Siachisumo (Lufwanyama): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity to represent the people of Lufwanyama and to add my voice on the Motion of Supply.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank the Seventh Republican President, the Commander in Chief, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, President of Zambia, for appointing the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning who has vast experience. He has been an hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning before from 2008 to 2011. He is a man with vast experience and very educated in economics. He knows what it means to present the Budget to the House.

 

Madam Speaker, when this Budget came out, the people of Lufwanyama celebrated because they have never seen such a Budget. Everyone was celebrating because money has been moved to the constituency and development has gone to the constituency. Lufwanyama is a rural constituency which is lacking basic needs. There is no clean water in most areas. People are drinking dirty water from the rivers with animals. So when the Budget was presented by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, a man with vast experience, people were so happy.

 

Madam Speaker, as I have mentioned, Lufwanyama is a rural constituency which is involved in farming. When the constituents saw the money which was allocated for the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP), and the Food Security Pack beneficiaries increase, people were very happy. There is hope that farmers will increase their farming activities in Lufwanyama and then they will be able even to export to Congo because of the increment. The hon. Minister mentioned in the Budget that those loopholes which were there in FISP will be sealed so that the correct farmers are identified and get the fertiliser and not as it was in the past where someone could get so many packs instead of the identified correct farmers. The people are so happy.

 

Madam Speaker, let me look at the livestock issue. I will quote from page 14 of the Budget. I have heard some hon. Members say that women and youths have been left out. It is not true. On page 14, the Budget says:

 

“... the Government will recruit more extension officers to enhance the provision of services to livestock farmers across the country.”

 

Further down the page, it says:

 

 

... in line with the New Dawn Administration agenda of eradicating poverty, we will empower youth and female headed households through livestock stocking and restocking ...”

 

Madam Speaker, we, in Lufwanyama, have not been left out. This has been our cry to make sure that women get cattle and oxen to make sure that they start ploughing using animals rather than using hoes. Our people have suffered for many years. It has been a challenge to produce maize because people have been using hoes. It is now our time to make sure that our people begin to enjoy.

 

Madam Speaker, on the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), we were overjoyed over the K25.7 million. It has never happened in the history of Zambia. This is the first time. It is now the hon. Member of Parliament who has a kasaka ka ndalama. Previously, the money was in Lusaka. Kasaka ka ndalama means money in the bag. We are so grateful because we are going to work as a team. We are going to take the money to the wards. The Ward Development Committees (WDCs) and the Community Welfare Assistance Committees (CWACs) will also assist to identify the vulnerable people in the community to make sure that they benefit from this money. For us in Lufwanyama, it is daybreak because this Budget, which was presented by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, has brought hope and development to us.  

 

Madam Speaker, 120 secondary schools will be given to constituencies and districts. In Lufwanyama, we already have land for a school. At the moment, we only have one big secondary school, but Lufwanyama is the biggest constituency in Zambia. I am sure the former hon. Minister of General Education knows what I am talking about where education is concerned in Lufwanyama. People are moving 40 km and 20 km to the next school. With the coming of the CDF, we will make sure that schools are built and roads are developed. I know the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development is an able hon. Minister who is going to make sure that this money comes to our constituency at the right time and development is delivered to the people at the right time. We have trained crews under the council and the members of the CDF committee. There are those who are crying that they do not have manpower to use this money. We are ready in Lufwanyama and we will make sure that it goes to the constituents.

 

Madam Speaker, we are ready. We thank the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for making sure that the money was raised from K1.6 million, which was a drop in the ocean. When I checked on the works from the previous Constituency Development Fund (CDF), I found that only two schools could be built; maybe one classroom block which is one by three classrooms, which is going at K700, 000 or K800,000. The money would almost be finished. Now for this money which is there, we will make sure that it is used properly.

 

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker

 

Madam Speaker, we are excited as people of Lufwanyama with the employment of 30,000 teachers, and some people are asking were the money will come from. The money is there, it is budgeted for. The revenue is showing, we have K173 billion. Maybe the only money which will be sourced will be maybe around K39 billion, the rest of money is there –

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

The hon. Member’s time expired.

 

Madam Speaker: Before I call on the next hon. Member to debate, I notice there was a point of order being raised by hon. Member of Parliament for Shiwang’andu. What is you pint of order?

 

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, my point of order was meant to be raised contemporaneously as the hon. Member who was on the Floor was debating. However, I can still put it on record.

 

Madam Speaker, I am citing Standing Order 65 (b), which states that the information he or she, meaning the hon. Member, uses in the House must be factual and verifiable. The hon. Member who was just on the Floor was a District Commissioner (DC) until this year under the previous Government. In his debate, he stated that the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) beneficiaries in the past were not properly accountable for. As DC, one of the responsibilities he had was to ensure that only designated FISP beneficiaries were to receive inputs.

 

Madam Speaker, was he in order to give that kind of statement without giving details because he was at the centre, as DC for Kalulushi and Mpongwe? The point of order was meant to be contemporaneous, but I seek your serious guidance so that the records that we put in this august House are accurate.

 

Madam Speaker: I did not call on the Hon. Member for Shiwang’andu immediately because I did not want to disrupt the hon. Member who was debating. However, now that the point of order has been raised and from what the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu is saying, the hon. Member for Lufwanyama was a District Commissioner (DC) in the previous Government and he was well aware of what transpired. Since he disclosed what he disclosed, maybe he knows what transpired that we do not know. We can only get it from him. It is only the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu and the hon. Member for Lufwanyama who know exactly what happened. Maybe they can tell us in future.

 

Thank you very much for that, but it was on a lighter note. Maybe at this stage let me take advantage of my earlier observation of what transpired yesterday. I had mentioned earlier that I was listening to the radio and I was disappointed with the words that were uttered by some hon. Members in their debate. It is not my wish or the wish of all hon. Members that those words should grace the records of this honourable House. Consequently, in accordance with Standing Order 67 (8), I do direct the Office of the Clerk to expunge from the Hansard the words ‘circus’ and ‘shut up’ which were uttered by a known hon. Member, whom for now will not mention his name, but the record will clearly show that he did utter those words. We can make progress.

 

 

Mr Chilangwa (Kawambwa): Madam Speaker, I thank you for giving me this rare opportunity and privilege to comment on the Budget Speech that was presented by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, Dr Stumbeko Musokotwane.

 

Madam Speaker, I want to congratulate him because the figure that he presented of K173 billion is the first of its kind. However, the devil is in the details. If I was Minister of Finance and National Planning, I would have presented a K200 billion budget.

 

Madam Speaker, I also want to thank him that for the first time, he acknowledged something on page 4, and he went on to say:

 

 “Madam, the economy is steadily recovering from the adverse effects of Coronavirus         Disease 2019 (COVID -19) pandemic”.

 

Madam, this is one issue the United Party for National Development (UPND) never believed in. We said so many times on the Floor of this House and outside, that Zambia, like any other country, has not been spared by the effects of COVID-19, but they elected to ignore that. However, for the first time and it is on record, a senior member of the UPND has come to the party to say yes indeed COVID-19 had adverse effects on our economy.

 

Madam Speaker, this Budget is populist and experimental. In other terms I would call it ‘smoking mirrors’. Why do I say this? The hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning on page 5, of his Speech, he is said:

 

“26. Madam, we must gradually reduce the deficits and debts to restore fiscal and debt       sustainability.”

 

Hon. Sing’ombe: Question!

 

Mr Chilangwa: That is what he said. Yes it is here.

 

Madam Speaker, if you go to page 44, of the same Budget that he presented. He starts by saying:

 

“Further, K24.5 billion will come from domestic borrowing, while externally sourced           financing is projected at K49.7 billion.”

 

What a contradiction. What kind of thinking is this?

 

Laughter

 

Mr Chilangwa: Who does that, I will reduce the debt today, but I am going to borrow more. I am confused. You go to town jumping and trotting to say what a great budget. The underlining factor has been debt reduction and sustainability and then you go and borrow more.

 

Madam Speaker, like that is not enough, let me tell you something Madam. He says “domestic financing”. They have put a figure of K77.9 that will come from taxes, K20.7 billion non tax revenue and so on. Do you believe that the same Finance and National Planning Minister has gone ahead to tax holidays to mining houses? The royalty tax is not a fee, it is a final tax and it is not deductible. We have been working on that trajectory with Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) over the last couple of years to ensure that the Zambian people get real value out of their minerals. What does the minister do? He goes on to say mining houses should not worry because they shall not pay anything.

 

Madam Speaker, are you aware that out of all the mining houses, only two mining houses pay both the Company Tax and the Mineral Royalty Tax. The rest have always been declaring losses for twenty-five years consistently. When people speak, they must not think that Zambia started with the Patriotic Front (PF). The PF Government came into power in 2011 and it inherited certain traits and things from the previous Governments.

 

Madam Speaker, out of this debt we keep singing about, are you aware that 25 per cent was left by the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) under the leadership of the current hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning. We need to refer to these things.

 

 Madam Speaker, let me quickly speak about the Constituency Development Fund (CDF).

 

Madam Speaker, now that we are allowed to congregate for longer hours, we should get back to debating for twenty minutes because dissecting this document in eight minutes is not fair. This document tells us where are going as a nation, but we are given eight minutes to debate it. I do not think it is right.

 

Madam Speaker, the amount of the CDF looks good and one thinks one can build a secondary school from the K25 million. Does one know the cost of building one secondary school? Does one know the figures? Further, the hon. Minister told us that out of the K25.7 billion, K5 billion will be for youth empowerment and K5 million for women empowerment. How much does that leave us? How much does it cost to construct a stretch of 1 km or work on a gravel road? Do we really know these things?

 

What we are saying colleagues, is what we say in Bemba ati ‘Munshebwa aile namananikane ku buko, meaning –

 

 Madam Speaker: Order!

 

 Hon. Member for Kawambwa, there are no colleagues here.

 

Mr Chilangwa: Hon. Members of the House, when we bring out issues here, it is because we know better. We have been on that route before and it will not help you to come on the Floor of this House and say the PF this or the PF that. We have already been removed from the Government. So, people are looking for solutions and not excuses. Munshebwa aile nafimofimo kubuko, meaning he who does not listen went in a compromised manner to the in-laws.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Chilangwa: So, the message is loud and clear. When my hon. Colleagues on the right come on the Floor of this House, they should bring solutions on the table. They should not keep on being cry babies every day. The Zambians will no longer buy that story. It is becoming monotonous. It is monotonous and unsalable. They are not interested. They want solutions. This Budget must provide the solutions. Our colleagues must provide solutions to the issues they spoke about.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Chilangwa: Time has come to come of age. Celebrating – a married couple does not go on honeymoon forever. There comes a time when it must face the reality.

 

 Madam Speaker, I thank you.       

 

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

 Mr Sialubalo (Sinazongwe): Madam Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to add a voice to this very important document, which is the 2022 National Budget.

 

Madam Speaker, in supporting the Budget, allow me to thank the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for giving us a document that contains very good or delicious relish. This document gives relief to a Member of Parliament who would pay the Parent Teachers Association (PTA) fees and school fees for the children in his constituency, and he will now use his salary to do other things. So, I have greatly benefited from this.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Members of Parliament on the right have been so generous in their respective constituencies. They have helped many people from the salaries they are given. Many children have benefited, but now, the hon. Minister realises that hon. Members of Parliament have suffered enough and the Government will take over this service, which is so important and will enable a girl child attain education and take a responsible position in society. A girl child who would just become a housewife in the near future may become a Member of Parliament for Sinazongwe. That is what the hon. Minister, Dr Situmbeko Musokotwane – no wonder one of the debaters yesterday called him superior among the best.

 

Madam Speaker, there is nothing wrong about being ambitious. For one to achieve anything, one has to be ambitious. However, someone said that the Budget is ambitious and most of us had ambitions of becoming Members of Parliament. It is from that angle that we took it up and we are now Members of Parliament. So, a serious government has to be ambitious. We have joked as a country for so long. We need serious leadership that consider the people’s suffering in the compounds or villages in Sinazongwe so that such people can take over from us in the near future. The Government is determined to turn around things that went wrong in the past.

 

 Madam Speaker, when the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development was answering the question on Kasenseli Gold Mine, he indicated that he is equal to the task to change everything that went wrong, including the improper mining activities that were happening at the mine. That will now be a thing of the past. We need a leadership that looks at others and thinks of giving people equal opportunities. That leadership has been lacking.

 

 Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning is giving the people the leverage to engage in mining activities. He wants many people to invest in the mining sector, be it local or international investors, because the copper prices are quite attractive. However, we will not just increase taxes because of the attractive copper prices. We should think of bringing in as many investors as possible so that when they come in the country, employment can be created. When employment is created, whoever gets above K4,500 which is a non-taxable threshold, will pay taxes. So, we should not just look at the Mineral Royalty Tax, but a broader prospective of taxation. We will collect many taxes when many investors come to invest in our country.

 

Madam Speaker, there is no way we can think of having an uncompromised taxation regime that scares away investors. We need to think of attracting investors so that once they come, we can have a win-win situation. We are not going to be bullied. One does not run a government by imposing things. The investors and the Government need to have a roundtable discussion to agree on the best way of taxation. I accept that the copper prices are so good, but the hon. Member who was debating previously said that there are only two mining companies that are tax compliant. We want to clean the system. We want as many companies as possible to be tax compliant and that is when we will develop.

 

Madam Speaker, when it comes to the K25.7 million that has been given, allow me to speak to the people of Sinazongwe to say, please, you have suffered for so long. Under the PF, in the past five years, the money that you received in total was K7.2 million. Yes, there was prudence. You used the money so wisely. Now, the Government of His Excellency the President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, is giving you K25.7 million. Please, go ahead, form co-operatives and companies. That is your money. It is high time politicians stopped lying to you that they are the alpha and omega of development. Development should come from you. Be responsible and inclusive.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Twasa (Kasenengwa): Madam Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to debate the Motion. My concentration will be more on budgetary allocations, the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) and, maybe, I will talk a bit about the bursaries.

 

Madam Speaker, as a fresher to this august House, I had a great opportunity to sit in this House and listen to the Budget Speech by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning. It was a very momentous occasion for me. I listened attentively as the Budget was being presented. After obtaining this copy of the booklet, which has the Budget Speech, I went straight to the budgetary allocations on page 40. I started doing my mathematics. I found that the figures on this page are not tallying. Then I started wondering.

 

Madam Speaker, if I was to send my younger brother into town with a K100 to get some groceries and he gives me the itemised Budget as; K20 talk time, K5 transport money, K15 lunch and K20, it could be for books; and then he says the total is K100. When I do the computations and find that the total for those items is K60. I will ask where the K40 is. What do you want to use the K40 for?

 

Mr Katakwe: In the Yellow Book.

 

Mr Twasa: Madam Speaker, I was in my constituency last week, and we were doing mathematics with my old people. We call it wonkesa, which is addition. They are not accountants or chartered accountants.

 

Mr Munir Zulu: Hammer!

 

Mr Twasa: Simple arithmetic, two wonkesa two, that is two plus two, it is four.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Twasa: Someone here, Madam Speaker, stands up and says the figures here are balancing because I am an accountant. Do you need to be an accountant to do wonkesa?

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Twasa: Simple mathematics?

 

Hon. UPND Member: Vili mu Yellow Book manje.

 

Mr Twasa: Madam Speaker, I went home with a troubled heart wondering why two plus two should be seven and people claim that they are accountants and wonkesa is balancing.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

 

Mr Katakwe: Go to the Yellow Book.

 

Mr Twasa: I only got relieved when another hon. Member of this House on the left stood up and said, he too is an accountant, and not only an accountant, but a chartered accountant.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

 

Mr Twasa: He added his voice and said, wonkesa here is not right. These figures are not balancing. Where is the K40? Unfortunately, when you think too much, you begin to have a lot of suspicions. Do our friends want to use the K37 billion to distribute it amongst themselves in their constituencies so that they can advance their programmes?

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

 

Mr Twasa: Madam Speaker, we were told that the answer will be in the Yellow Book.

 

Hon. PF Members: Yes!

 

Mr Twasa: Madam Speaker, this is the Budget Speech which we were given by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning.

 

Mr Jay Banda: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Twasa: There are very few people –

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

There is a point of order from the neighbourhood.

 

Laughter

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Petauke Central, is it? What is the point of order?

 

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, my point of order is based on Standing Order 58(3) –

 

Madam Speaker: Which Standing Order?

 

Mr J. Banda: Madam Speaker, Standing Order 58(3), states as follows:

 

“A member who uses a word or expression in another language shall immediately translate it into English.”

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr J. Banda: Madam Speaker, is the hon. Member in order not to translate the word ‘sonkesa’?

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam Speaker: He said sonkesa? I heard wapesa, which he said means addition, but I did not hear sonkesa. Hon. Member for Kasenengwa, as you use your local language, which you love so much, can you, please, also provide the English translation?

 

Continue with your debate.

 

Mr Twasa: Much obliged, Madam Speaker. I translated. It is not sonkesa, it is wonkesa.

 

Hon. PF Members: Wonkesa!

 

Mr Twasa: Wonkesa is addition. Chosa is subtraction.

 

So, I had to use my language to interpret the Budget to my people in the constituency.

 

Madam Speaker, this budget is presented on the Floor of this House. The day when the Budget is being presented, Madam Speaker, historically, the nation comes to almost a standstill because everyone else wants to listen to the Budget Speech. They were told that we have K172 billion as our budget for 2022. However, when we do our arithmetic here –

 

Mr Katakwe: The Budget is K173 billion.

 

Mr Twasa: 173 or 172 it still falls short.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Twasa: Madam Speaker, when we do our addition, we have a shortfall of K37 billion. Now, why rush to the Yellow Book which is not easily accessed by so many people? Only a few people will access the Yellow Book, but so many people listen to the Budget Speech when it is presented in here.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Twasa: Why then should you present a wrong Budget to the nation?

 

Mr Samakayi: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. PF Members: Continue.

 

Mr Twasa: Madam –

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

There is a point of order from the hon. Member for Mwinilunga. What is the point of order?

 

Mr Samakayi: My point of order is based on Standing Order 65(1)(b) which states that an hon. Member who is debating must be factual. Is the hon. Member who is on the Floor in order to mislead this House and the general public that the Budget is not balancing ...

 

Hon. PF Members: It is not balancing.

 

Mr Samakayi: ... when the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning explained that in the speech, not all figures are put there?

 

Hon. UPND Members: It is in the Yellow Book!

 

Mr Samakayi: What is recorded in the speech are highlights on the revenue side. The hon. Minister explained that. If you want to see or ensure that the Budget is balancing, go to the Yellow Book.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Samakayi: The Yellow Book has been provided. We have checked that the Yellow Book is balancing.

 

Hon. PF Members: Question!

 

Mr Samakayi: Is he, therefore, in order to mislead this House and the entire nation that the Budget is not balancing?

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Samakayi: From 1964, the Budget Speech has never balanced because they are highlights that are put there. I need your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Interruptions

 

Madam Speaker: I do know where we are going. As the hon. Member is raising a point of order, they are so many people providing answers from their seats and then somebody says “incompetent.” That is what we are saying. Please, this is a House of order and dignity. We should observe the decorum of the House. Now, this idea of debating while seated and making utterances is not going to be accepted.

 

The respect that we give each other in this House is mutual. You give the presiding officer the respect that is deserved of the Chair and the Chair will, in the same manner, give you respect, which is deserved of hon. Members. Now, if hon. Members start behaving in a manner that is not befitting and disrupting debate, what do you expect? Do you need to be called so that you can stand there? Do you need to be named so that you can walk out of this House in shame? I think that is not what we want to achieve. So, please, I have warned hon. Members. We do not want to take that route because when you are here, you are not only speaking as hon. Members of this House. The People out there, who voted you into office, are listening. The cooperating partners who support us in so many aspects are listening.

 

So, as we talk and discuss, hon. Members, make sure that you take time to listen to the radio and watch television and see whether you will be proud of what you are going to see. I am giving guidance and next time if action is taken, you should not blame the Chair and say that she has exercised the powers without due consideration of the rights and privileges of the hon. Members. So, please, let us take note of that guidance.

 

Further, on the point of order that has been raised, hon. Members, as you come to debate, make sure that you are factual and to the point. The Yellow Book that is being discussed is a working document of this House. So, as we debate the Speech, which is a policy document, let us compare with what the Yellow Book is saying so that we give a correct picture to the people of Zambia, who are listening to the debate. If, indeed, there is shortfall, let us check first before we make a comment. Then, as we debate, both the left and the right, if there is a point that you want to counter or rebut, take note. I have already guided. Please, do take note because this is a debate. There is a debate for the Motion and against the Motion. You do not expect somebody debating against the Motion to debate for the Motion. That is their point of view that there is no balance. What we expect from the right is to show the people of Zambia that, indeed, there is no shortfall of K37 billion or is it K37 million? Let us do that. That is the nature of debate. That is how debate is conducted. So, if an hon. Member is debating out of context, it should be brought through another hon. Member’s debate. It should be corrected by way of rebuttal. That is my guidance on the matter.

 

Hon. Member for Kasenengwa, please proceed and be factual as you are debating.

 

Mr Twasa: Madam Speaker, thank you very much. I am guided. I assure you and this House that I am on terra firma. I am speaking facts. The schedule is here on page 40. These figures are not balancing and for the interest –

 

 Madam Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member for Kasenengwa, the Chair has made a ruling. Do not debate the Chair’s ruling. You may proceed.

 

Mr Twasa: Madam Speaker, We were told to wait for this Yellow Book. It has become a culture for our friends on your right to keep contradicting themselves. I have the Yellow Book here. According to the Budget Speech, K13.9 billion is allocated to the Ministry of Health, but the Yellow Book says K12.4 billion.

 

Hon. PF Members: Ah!

 

Mr Twasa: Madam Speaker, this is the same Yellow Book we were told to wait for. I said I am on terra firma.

 

Hon Government Members: Question!

 

Mr Twasa: Under Ministry of Defence, in the Budget Speech, the ministry has been allocated K7.6 billion. In the Yellow Book, it is K5.5 billion.

 

Hon. PF Members: Ah!

 

Mr Twasa: The figures in the speech and those in the Budget are balancing. I am on terra firma. On education, the Budget Speech says –

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member for Kasenengwa, just give me a moment. I need to consult on the manner in which you are debating.

 

So, what I wanted to consult on was your comparison of the Budget Speech and the Yellow Book. According to the Standing Orders, we cannot debate the individual heads. As you know, the Budget is being considered by the Expanded Budget Committee and later on, it will be brought before this honourable House. So, as you compare, please do not go into details and individual heads because that is not in accordance with the Standing Orders. You may proceed.

 

Mr Twasa: Madam Speaker, I am guided because we were given the leverage not to debate, so thank you. I will not go into details anymore. I now come to the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) allocation.

 

Madam Speaker, K25.7 billion looks very good and we welcome it with an open heart. However, it still gives me sleepless nights. It is like a man who gets K200,000 and gives 2.3 per cent to his wife, which is K4,600. He then tells the wife to buy groceries for the whole month, pay rent, pay school fees, pay for DSTV and power while he remains with K196,000. He says to his wife that he loves her so much. He thinks that money is enough to do everything at home.

 

Madam Speaker, we have been given K25.7 million, which looks good, but again, we have been given a lot of responsibilities. Now, where is the increment? Basically, the CDF still stays at –

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

The hon. Member’s time expired.

 

Ms Lungu (Chawama): Madam Speaker, thank you for according me this moment to contribute to debate on the Motion. I first want to thank the hon. Minister for presenting the Budget. The Budget, when presented, looked very impressive but as I analysed it, I saw that some items may need to be revised.

 

Madam Speaker, I looked at the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) which only accounts for 2.3 per cent of the Budget. This money is simply not enough because the scope of work has been expanded. I will give an example of the roads in Chawama if we have to build roads there. The hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development came to this House, and I commend him for that, saying he wants to reduce the cost of working on roads. At the moment, they are costing us about a million dollars for one kilometre. Let us say, for argument’s sake, that we reduce it to maybe US$500,000. In that amount of money, for Chawama, we would only be able to build 3 km worth of a road. This means that the amount for the CDF would have been depleted. So, if I look at the women empowerment and the youth empowerment, they would not be catered for. The Government promised jobs. So, to be able to bring those empowerment programmes and be able to train the people and give them the skills that are needed, that amount of money is not enough.

 

Madam Speaker, I also noticed that there are some groups of people within our society that have been left out. I will take for instance, the disabled. They are not mentioned anywhere in the Budget. They have a unique set of needs. They have different sub-groups among them. I will give an example: maybe the blind might have different needs. Sorry, let me just use a different term. The visually impaired and then, also, there might be other groups that might need wheel chairs for instance. So, the allocation has to be a special allocation only for them just like other groups have been allocated, those that might have been marginalised in our society.

 

Madam Speaker, in the First Republic, there were specialised schools for the disabled. In these schools, upon graduation, they would have employment in Government as well as parastatal companies. In the Second Republic, they were tax incentives. The companies that were able to employ disabled people received tax incentives. Just like any other group, they need to be spoken for and I spent so much on them because so far, of all the debates that have been delivered, nobody has represented them. So, I am urging the hon. Minister to reconsider and really look at this special group and their needs in order to address them.

 

Madam Speaker, there is another group that has been left out. Our men have been left out. We talk about empowerment and a gender balanced society. We cannot talk about gender and live out one gender. As it is, we are disadvantaged as women. We cannot continue with the trend which we have engaged in for a long time. All of us here are guilty. We have been looking at the women and what they need, but we are not looking at the other gender. We have to balance the scale. If we do not balance the scale, we will find that it has tipped over. Now the women will have an advantage and men will not.  It will put all of us once again, at a disadvantage. As the women as well as our daughters, our granddaughters in the future, will find a situation where the boys and men have been neglected and they will not be able to contribute anything. As we can see, most of the households, as it is and culturally the way it has been in this country, which I personally appreciate, fathers and husbands have been heads of households. To continue with that culture, or at least to balance it out where both of us are equal, we have to look at the issue of equity.

 

Madam Speaker, with these few remarks, I thank you.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Lubozha (Chifubu): Madam Speaker, I want to express my profound gratitude for the privilege to contribute to debate on the Motion on the Floor of the House. Let me thank the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, Dr Situmbeko Musokotwane, who has made history in our country by being hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning in two different administrations. This was not by chance, but because of the vast experience and impeccable credentials that he has giving him the opportunity to carry out this national assignment.

 

Madam Speaker, the economic recovery steps stated in this Budget today, serve as a chemotherapy treatment to the cancerous economy that has been destroyed by the past regime. The Budget today, has started making our country a better country. It is for this reason that this Budget has made all our political opponents paralysed and they are currently in a melancholic state. Their position and hopes have been thrown in a political imbroglio or political disarray, in simple terms.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Lubozha: Madam Speaker, let me, on behalf of the people of Chifubu, confirm on the Floor of this House that we are supporting this Budget. We are supporting this Budget on the following premises:

 

Madam Speaker, firstly, time and again, people have stood on the Floor of this House to blow the political vuvuzela or trumpet demanding that the New Dawn Administration implements its policy on free education. Surely today, our Budget has come to silence all our critics by ensuring that user fees, examination fees and schools fees from Grade 1 to Grade 12 have been scrapped. This is a clear indication that our country is on the right trajectory.

 

Madam Speaker, once again, our men and women who have served this company in the labour circles for so many years with honour and dignity, upon retirement from the United National Independence Party (UNIP) Administration up to the current administration, have failed to pay –

 

Mr E. Daka: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr E. Daka: Madam Speaker, I refer to Standing Order 65 (b). Is the hon. Member debating telling the House factual things because he is talking about Grades 1 to 12 –

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

I cannot hear you. You are so close, but somehow, I am missing what you are saying.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr E. Daka: Madam Speaker, I am saying with regard to Standing Order 65 (b), is the hon. Member in order by not stating facts when he is debating? He is talking about free education for Grades 1 to 12, which was already there. Where is he getting those things from?

 

Interruptions

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

I believe the hon. Member is debating according to what he understands. So, if the hon. Member has issues of statistics, he can bring them in his debate to rebut what the hon. Member for Chifubu is saying.

 

Proceed, hon. Member for Chifubu.

 

Mr Lubozha: Thank you for the protection, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker, surely, the pension arrears that have accrued from the past administrations have not been paid, but for the first time in the history of this country, the New Dawn Administration has offered to pay our men and women who served this country in different capacities. This is the reason the people of Chifubu support this Budget.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Lubozha: Madam Speaker, on job creation, the New Dawn Administration stands out from the past administrations by promising to employ 30,000 teachers and 11,000 health workers. As you may be aware, unemployment has been the biggest problem in this country. In this regard, the New Dawn Administration has decided to alleviate this by recruiting more than 41,000 graduates from the labour market, which the previous brutal and uncaring regime failed to do.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Lubozha: Madam Speaker, on the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), we have been crying for money from the Central Government to help hon. Members of Parliament to develop their constituencies. This time around, the New Dawn Administration has taken money from the Central Government to the local government for hon. Members of Parliament to develop their constituencies. Some hon. Members performed wonders with the K1.6 million and because of that, they came back to this august House, and what more with K25.7 million.

 

Mr Kapyanga: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Lubozha: Madam Speaker, if hon. Members do not come back to this House based on their performance, then, they will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

Can the hon. Member of Parliament for Chifubu complete his debate. I have taken note of the point of order you want to raise.

 

Hon. Member for Chifubu, proceed.

 

Mr Lubozha: Madam Speaker, the CDF will help us to perform wonders. In Chifubu Parliamentary Constituency, there has been only one secondary school since Independence, which is Chifubu Secondary School. Using the CDF, we will build more secondary schools although some schools offered supplementary help and provided services. So, when the K25.7 million is made available, we will construct a secondary school. Further, our schools do not have desks, but we will buy desks.

 

Madam Speaker, part of the Chifubu Local Court was gutted by fire. When the CDF is made available, we will rebuild the structure.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning also told us that the production of copper will increase. This will bring about magnificent benefits such as job creation, increased tax revenue and foreign exchange, and many business opportunities. Surely, why would one stand here and say that why should we increase copper production when people are in dire need of jobs and business opportunities? Let us be sincere to ourselves, gentlemen, hon. Members – I withdraw that.

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member for Chifubu, you have run out of time, but before you sit down, the words ‘brutal regime’ are unparliamentary. Can you kindly withdraw those words that you used.

 

Mr Lubozha: Madam Speaker, I withdraw those words for the sake of peace and tranquility.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Katotobwe (Luapula): Madam Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to deliver my maiden speech.

 

Madam Speaker, my maiden speech will mainly touch on commerce and the rule of law, but before I go into it, allow me to thank the people Luapula Parliamentary Constituency who turned up to vote for me to become their hon. Member of Parliament. I thank the four chiefs, the sub-chiefs and the headmen domiciled in Luapula Parliamentary Constituency. I also thank the faith-based organisations for their constant prayers and for their lobbying for the development of Luapula Parliamentary Constituency, which is largely undeveloped.

 

Madam Speaker, I further thank my campaign team and my predecessor, Hon. Emerine Kabanshi, and wish her well. I also thank the Patriotic Front (PF) party for the opportunity to contest on the PF ticket. I thank Hon. Davis Mwila, Madam Inonge Mutukwa Wina and, above all, His Excellency Dr Edgar Chagwa Lungu.

 

Hon. Government Members: Former!

 

Mr Katotobwe: Madam Speaker, in this august House, I thank my PF colleagues for the warm interactions, and across the Floor, I recognise Her Honour the Vice-President, Madam Mutale Nalumango, hon. Ministers and hon. Members of Parliament from long ago as well as new ones.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Katotobwe: I also thank my wife and four children.

 

Madam Speaker, to have businesses run by Zambians is one of the sure ways to ease the burden of poverty. Youth unemployment is a reflection of the Government not doing enough. One analogy tells us that the best way to predict and protect the future is to invent it without hesitation. Therefore, the new Government must begin to walk along the path to create jobs for the youth in both the formal and informal sectors. Instead, we see the Government focusing on how to diminish the Opposition. However, we all know that a mere vanquish of the status quo will never deliver innovative development.

 

Madam Speaker, some of the core centres of business where real employment is created can be found in trade, commerce and industry. We all know that trading is the buying and selling of goods and services, and can employ, largely, the owner and their family. Commerce is wider and encompasses a lot more like banking, transport, warehousing and insurance, among others. Industry, in this case, can be classified as manufacturing.

 

Madam Speaker, these two, commerce and industry, are the centres of real employment. Our inability as a country to put our efforts together and focus on development is hindering innovation, development and job creation. Instead, we are choosing to follow the destructive roots of the past.

 

Madam Speaker, remember when the Africa Growth and Opportunity Act (AGOA) started twenty-one years ago, we were told that it was the blueprint for Africa and Zambia’s commerce. Then came the New Partnership for Africa’s Development (NEPAD) which was described as the blueprint to reduce poverty, but in reality, and truth be told, what we did was to integrate our markets for imports that brought us more poverty and youth unemployment.

 

Madam Speaker, now, across Africa the new themes are green economy and the Africa Free Trade Area.

RRR

Again, these are described as blueprints for development and we are copying them very fast. These ideas developed by the developed countries, to make us think small, act small and live small.

 

Madam Speaker, our minerals are being taken away in huge quantities for little consideration. Failure, by the new Government to achieve innovative development away from external ideas will, unfortunately, make them look like fish out of water. The citizens will judge the new Government as a Mary Andrew, staging a dance, that is, dance first, think later and keep insisting that this is the national order, believing that the general populous will forget. True, in general terms, people will forget what you said. People will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel. Facts do not cease to exist by simply ignoring them.

 

Madam Speaker, I now highlight a few issues on the rule of law. Fundamentally, the rule of law sets the normative standards of development as it allows participation by many groups, ensures transparency and efficiency as well as guarding and guiding economic, political and administrative institution. The rule of law is the hallmark of good governance. In our case, good rule of law would entail improved and consistent unbiased investigations, prosecutions, fair judgements from the Judiciary including prompt, but still fair dispensations of justice from the newly proposed fast track court.

 

Madam Speaker, as a politician and a believer in the ideology of national cohesion, I think that the mechanism to recover stolen assets by the Government can perfect good governance. However, I call for justice without vindictive political butting-in. Cabal juntas must not be allowed to take over or influence the establishment and functions of the mechanisms to recover stolen assets from Governments; past, present and future. These mechanisms must be left to the able investigative wigs. In the past, we have seen cabal juntas take away responsibility from the Anti-corruption Commission (ACC), the Drug Enforcement Commission (DEC), the Director of Public Prosecution (DPP) and the Zambia Police (ZP). It would be demeaning to the officers at ACC, DEC, DPP and ZP, who have gained experiences and expertise over the years for their responsibility to be taken away or guided by some despicable entities.

 

Madam Speaker, through you, I call on the hon. Minister of Justice not to allow the mechanisms of the rule of law to be turned into mechanisms of settling personal vendettas by allowing interference from politicians and cabals.

 

Madam Speaker, many years ago, we saw Dr Kenneth Kaunda being persecuted on allegation of having stolen books. To date, no Government has ever apologised to the Kaunda family. We saw the prosecution and persecution of late former President Chiluba. To date, former late President Chiluba’s assets have never been given to the Chiluba family. We saw the prosecution of late former President Rupiah Banda. To date, there has never been a Government apology. The late Mukelebai Mukelebai, a former DPP, an illustrious iconic, son of this country was thrown out on flimsy allegations of wining and dining with the then spy chief when in fact not.

 

Madam Speaker, this is the long list of injustices by the Government and this list is about to grow. It has the tendency of growing when in the country there is a rhythm or rhyming claiming that the rule of law must be obeyed. The more you hear of rule of law, the more this list is about to grow.

 

Madam Speaker, this ugly history is about to repeat itself with the current DPP as we sit in this august House and watch. The United Party far National Development (UPND) Government has an opportunity through His Excellency, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, to learn from the past, resolve the present and set a precedent for the future and break this vicious cycle of injustice on citizens by the Government.

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

The hon. Member’s time expired.

 

_______

 

(Debate adjourned)

 

The House adjourned at 1255 hours until 1430 hours on Tuesday, 16^th November, 2021.

 

___________