Debates- Thursday, 4th October, 2012

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Thursday, 4th October, 2012 

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]






Mr Speaker: I wish to inform the House that the National Assembly of Zambia has organised a Pre-Budget Seminar for all hon. Members of Parliament to be held on Monday, 8th October, 2012 at 09:00 hours in the Auditorium at Parliament Buildings.  This is in view of the Budget Presentation Speech to be delivered to Parliament by the hon. Minister of Finance on Friday, 12th October, 2012. 

The workshop will cover the following topics: 

(a)Understanding the National Budget;

(b)Budget Analysis and Related Tools;

(c)The Budget Process and the Role of Parliament in the National Budget;

(d)Pro-Poor Budgeting;

(e)National Budget and the millennium development goals (MDGs); and lastly, but not the  least

(f)Gender Budgeting.

Hon. Members are, therefore, required to attend this very important workshop.


Mr Speaker: I wish to inform the House that there were some errors in the composition of Committees, and the following are the corrections:

(a)Committee on Delegated Legislation – Hon. D. Mwango, MP has been replaced by Hon. B. Mutale, MP:

(b)Committee on Education, Science and Technology – Hon. L. Chabala, MP has been replaced by Hon. S. Mushanga, MP; and

(c)Committee on Legal Affairs, Governance, Human Rights, Gender Matters and Child Affairs – Hon. M. Mumba, MP has been replaced by Hon. J. M. Kapyanga, MP.

I thank you.




81. Mrs Chungu (Lufwanyama) asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education when the newly-constructed Lufwanyama Boarding High School would be opened to the public.

The Deputy Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Mr P. Ngoma): Mr Speaker, Lufwanyama Boarding High School will be opened to the public after the completion of external works by January, 2013.

Thank you, Sir.

Mrs Chungu: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that this school has been turned into a storage facility for fertiliser and most of the windows and doors are falling apart?

Mr P. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, the ministry is fully aware of the status of that school. Discussions between the contractors involved and the hon. Minister took place to normalise the situation at the school, including the provision of water reticulation and sewerage facilities.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamusonde (Nangoma): Mr Speaker, why does the Government start projects that it cannot complete in time?

Mr P. Ngoma: Sir, I am sure the House is aware that the previous Government had started constructing many schools but, due to financial constraints, it was difficult to complete all them at once. However, the present Government is trying as much as possible to complete the projects.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!


Dr Kazonga (Vubwi): Mr Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament for Lufwanyama said that this school is used as a storage facility and the hon. Minister says that the target date to open this school to the public is January, 2013. Is the hon. Minister, therefore, certain that by January, 2013, the school will no longer be used to store fertiliser and will be converted back to a learning institution? Further, why was that allowed in the first place?

Mr P. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, I did mention earlier that the contractor and the ministry had a discussion and the contractor is at the school to correct the situation so that the school opens by January, 2013. No school opens in the middle of the year. So, I would like to assure the hon. Members that this school will be opened in January, 2013.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Namulambe (Mpongwe): Mr Speaker, the breakages are as a result of the school being used as storage for fertiliser. However, the contractor is not responsible for this. Has the ministry put any measures in place to ensure that all the breakages are repaired so that the school opens in January, 2013?

Mr P. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, this is the same question being asked in a different way. 


Mr P. Ngoma: Sir, I said that the contractor and the ministry had a discussion. So, whatever problems there are will be attended to by the contractor.

I thank you, Sir.

Professor Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister informed the House that the MMD constructed many schools. For some, the construction has just begun, while others are at different stages of completion. Is it not possible for the ministry to give us an approximated comprehensive date of completion and opening for the different schools so that we are all aware when the various schools will be opening for learning?

Mr P. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, for now, we should concentrate on this school. If any hon. Member would like to know about what is transpiring at some schools elsewhere, maybe, I can come back to the House with better answers.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mtolo (Chipata Central): Mr Speaker, is the hon. Deputy Minister aware that fertiliser actually erodes ordinary concrete? If he is, when is the ministry removing the fertiliser for the Farmers’ Input Support Programme (FISP) from that school?

Mr P. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, I am not a Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Livestock. I know very little about those details. If I am asked about what is going on in secondary and primary schools and universities, I can give the hon. Member a proper answer. However, like I have said, if this school was used to store fertiliser, the fertiliser is no longer there. The school has been rehabilitated. The hon. Member should go to the school and see for himself what has been done so far.

Thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Sir, the hon. Deputy Minister, who is my half-brother from another mother, …


Mr Mbewe:  May I know if the people who are using this school to store their merchandise are paying any rentals?

Mr P. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, the answer to my full brother, not half-brother, is that the ministry did not know about this arrangement but, when we learnt about it, we requested the contractor to go and deal with the situation.

Thank you, Sir.


82. Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West) asked the Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry:

(a)    whether the Government had any plans to revive the pineapple canary plant in Mwinilunga as a way of creating employment for the local community;

    (b)    if so, what the plans were;

(c)    whether the private-public-partnership (PPP) arrangement was among the plans for reviving the plant; and

    (d)    if there were no plans to revive the plant, what the reasons were.

The Deputy Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry (Mr Taima): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the Government has plans to revive the pineapple processing industry in Mwinilunga through the participation of the private sector in the project.

The establishment of a pineapple processing plant is currently being marketed by the ministry through the Zambia Development Agency (ZDA) as one of the projects for potential investment. The project has so far attracted interest from various investors, including Saudi Arabians and Italians who have formally expressed interest in the project. Furthermore, the Government is committed to ensuring that it revives the industrial sector in the country in order to create employment for the people. The Government has, therefore, come up with a concept of industrial clusters to be established in selected areas of the country. Mwinilunga pineapple processing is part of this concept.

The House may also wish to know that Chieftainess Ikeleng’i of Mwinilunga has offered additional 4,000 hectares of land for the would-be core-investors to set up processing facilities to promote and support more than 4,000 small-scale farmers to be incorporated through an out-grower scheme. Therefore, the Government, through private sector participation, will resume pineapple processing and contribute to the development of the country and, indeed, employment creation.

My ministry is holding discussions with the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock to also look at quality yield, size and other issues related to production. This is aimed at producing pineapples of a quality similar to that of imported ones. The aim is to provide an array of avenues available for marketing pineapples from just consumption to fruit canning and juice packaging. With expanded market access within the region, exports of fruits of good quality and uniform presentation with regard to colour upon ripening should be an achievable feat. It is the Government’s view that Mwinilunga pineapple processing can be revived using various forms of private sector participation in the project. These may vary from purely private sector ventures to different forms of partnerships between the Government and the private sector respectively.

Mr Speaker, there are plans to revive the Mwinilunga Pineapple Cannery Plant as already indicated.

Thank you, Sir. 

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, I appreciate the elaborate explanation that has been provided by the hon. Deputy Minister. Are there any time lines to it?

The Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry (Mr Sichinga): Mr Speaker, the ministry is dealing with that issue at the moment. Those who would like to participate have already expressed an interest, but there is a process that we have to go through. We want to make sure that the people in the surrounding areas benefit from this industry. That is why our options are being considered in the context of out-grower schemes so that people can benefit from the project. 

However, regarding the requirements of the export market, we want to make sure that all the technologies that are necessary to preserve the crop up to a certain stage are put in place. Therefore, the timeline is very brief. In fact, we are talking about months instead of years, and that is being pursued vigorously. 

Mr Speaker, the last item, which I thought would have been raised by the hon. Member of Parliament for Mwinilunga, is one that relates to the clusters that we talked about yesterday. I informed this House yesterday that we were discussing this at the Value Addition Conference. In fact, we have a representative from Mwinilunga who has come to represent the farmers there, and has raised issues not only about pineapples, but also other crops. I would like to think that the hon. Members of Parliament who really care about their constituencies would have responded because we made this request to this House in April. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Bwalya (Lupososhi): Mr Speaker, I appreciate the answers that have been given by the hon. Minister. There have been reports in the media with regard to pineapples, and we all know that Mwinilunga produces large quantities of pineapples. May I know what the immediate interventions are with regard to finding a market for the pineapples. While we appreciate that the industrial clusters will be coming, the people of Mwinilunga still require a market for the current produce.

Mr Sichinga: Mr Speaker, we are faced with the challenge of quantities. At the moment, the production is at the local level. Those who have been to Mwinilunga will know that the factory was razed to the ground, and that means that there is no production at the factory. However, production is at a small-scale, and that makes it difficult to secure orders that can meet the requirements. We have already engaged some of the commercial entities such as Shoprite, Pick n Pay and Spar in this respect, but the challenge is that they would like this to be distributed nationwide rather than concentrated in one location. That is why we would like production to be enhanced so that we can achieve higher production.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mpundu (Nchelenge): Mr Speaker, how many jobs are likely to be created from this planned investment?

Mr Sichinga: Mr Speaker, it will depend on the form that it will finally take. If we talk about a particular company operating this plant, we expect fewer jobs to be created directly. However, the spillover effect will be such that there will be additional growing. We would like to accept the offer that has been made by Chieftainess Ikeleng’i for the 4,000 hectares to be taken up so that we are able to expand this production. This is one area in which Zambia really has comparative advantage, and it is an area that we would like to pursue and ensure that is brought to fruition. Thus, in terms of the number of jobs, it will depend on the form that it will take. There will be direct jobs and indirect ones.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, why is it that pineapples from other countries, which are not even sweet, have been allowed onto the Zambian market, but the good pineapples that come from Solwezi and Mwinilunga have been disregarded? The pineapples are not only grown in Mwinilunga but also in Solwezi West. Why does the Government not come up with a deliberate policy to ban the importation of ‘useless’ pineapples from other countries and create a market for local farmers instead?

Hon. Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichinga: Mr Speaker, I am grateful to the hon. Member for raising that question because I would like to think that, as a former hon. Minister, he is aware that our country has gone into regional agreements, which include the Southern African Development Community (SADC) and the Common Market for East and Southern Africa (COMESA) at which we allow trade amongst countries in the region, including those from which different types of pineapples may come. Therefore, at this stage, we are not in a position to restrict the importation of pineapples from other countries. Our target is to enhance the quality of our pineapples and make them more desirable. 

In addition, the Value Addition Conference will discuss matters regarding the areas in which we would like to be protected for our citizens and that we would like to be produced locally so that we can enhance the content of what we are providing to the market. We wish we were in a position to simply dictate the conditions. However, our country has already gone into agreements which we cannot reverse. I would like to say that the best way to deal with this is for us to organise ourselves and make our pineapples more attractive.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simfukwe (Mbala): Mr Speaker, going by the hon. Minister’s response, it looks like our hope of creating employment for 5 million unemployed people has been lost in agreements. I say so because most jobs are in the manufacturing and processing subsector. However, 90 per cent and above of the processed products in our shops are imported. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister, whom I have a lot of respect for because I know he is very knowledgeable and well-travelled, whether he is comfortable with these agreements. Is he telling us that we will not create employment because of these agreements?

Mr Sichinga: Mr Speaker, we are trying to ensure that we place our country on a competitive basis. The reason the Government has gone into these agreements is that they have advantages of a bigger market. By the way, the agreements were signed long before this Government came into office. The advantage is in our being able to produce at more competitive prices and market our products well. Indeed, the whole reason for ensuring that we introduce clusters and improve our value addition is to create jobs. The Government is committed, and I mentioned this yesterday, to creating a million jobs during out first tenure in office. That is our commitment. That is what we are working towards achieving. That is something that we are not relenting on. Yes, there will be cases where we may not be able to compete, but we want to move that to a different level.

Let me also submit to the House, although it is not directly on this particular question, that under the SADC Agreement and SADC Trade Arrangement, the biggest supplier to the whole region, the ‘Big Brother’, is South Africa. Of all the trade that we have amongst the sixteen member countries, 72 per cent is generated from South Africa. The second best is Namibia with 8 per cent. Zambia and Zimbabwe contribute 4 per cent each and the balance to that particular trade is the contribution of the other twelve countries collectively at 12 per cent. That is the balance we are trying to work to change. This is why the creation of clusters and value addition is the way to go. We cannot take protective measures at the moment because we had already gone past that stage, way before this Government came into office. Therefore, we have to find other ways in which we can exercise our comparative advantage. That is what we are working on at the moment, and that is why we are holding the Value Addition Conference today and tomorrow.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma (Zambezi West): Mr Speaker, I would like to know the status of the plant in question. On one hand, the Government is talking about reviving the pineapple plant and, on the other, the hon. Minister is stating that the plant was razed down. If an investor is found, will he rehabilitate the existing plant and machinery or it will require setting up a completely new plant?

Mr Sichinga: Mr Speaker, the word ‘revival’ here is being used in the wider context of reviving the pineapple industry in that area. As far as the structures are concerned, the position I gave is the correct one. There is no structure or plant. Everything was razed to the ground. The revival we are talking about, Hon. Kakoma, is to recreate what was in place before. That is the context in which the term has been used. 

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Katuka (Mwinilunga): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister mentioned that land has been found in Ikeleng’i. Ikeleng’i is an independent district and that is where the pineapples are grown. Where does the Government intend to put up this plant? Is it in Ikeleng’i or Mwinilunga?

Mr Sichinga: Mr Speaker, we want to increase production. We will increase production wherever land becomes available in order to create jobs. Mwinilunga, Solwezi West and Ikeleng’i are areas which are producing pineapples. Is it not a good idea that we should go to all these places and produce the pineapples so that we can sell them in higher volumes? The revival we are talking about, as I said earlier, includes all the areas that are producing pineapples, including Mwinilunga. This question was specifically on Mwinilunga. However, we gave an answer in a wider context.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, I appreciate the answers that have been given by the hon. Minister. However, I would like to find out something about an issue he mentioned regarding ‘Big Brother’ South Africa taking a big chunk of the market in the SADC Region. I would like to find out whether he is aware that South Africa has an Empowerment Policy in which, indirectly, the Government has something to do with the production capacity of all the industries, unlike here, where one cannot borrow for investment purposes because of the high interest rates.

Mr Sichinga: Mr Speaker, yes, I am aware of what he has said. However, I expect that the hon. Member of Parliament is aware that we have the Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC) Act of 2006. It is currently in effect here. We are trying to resolve the problems of the CEEC because the previous Government really made the operations of that institution difficult. We have completed an audit done by the Auditor-General’s Office has completed an audit. We have also looked at the issues of corruption that took place during that time. I gave a report to this House in which I disclosed that only 42 per cent of the K169 billion that had been provided for the CEEC at that time was in use. 

Mr Speaker, I would also like to report to the House that, since then, additional funds have been provided and, currently, K203 billion has been provided for the purpose of empowerment. However, empowerment depends on revolving the Empowerment Fund, and that fund is performing at only 42 per cent at the moment. It is my ministry’s intention to correct that situation. On 1st October, 2012, a new Chief Executive Officer (CEO) was appointed to help us in that process. Therefore, I would like to report that if there is a specific question that the hon. Member of Parliament wishes to raise on the CEEC, it should be brought to the House, and we will give the answer. However, this question was purely on Mwinilunga Pineapple Canary, and that is the information we have provided.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}


83. Mr Sichula (Nakonde) asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing when the Government would establish a water utility company for Muchinga Province.

The Deputy Minister of Local Government and Housing (Dr Simbyakula): Mr Speaker, I wish to state that Muchinga is a new province and that plans to establish a water utility company for Muchinga Province are already underway. However, a water utility company will be in place early next year. I also wish to state that there is a process which is supposed to be followed when constituting a water utility company. Firstly, we have to initiate meetings with the local authorities within the province, including the councillors, stakeholders in that province and the hon. Member of Parliament for his input. We also need to consider that, once these meetings are constituted, they need to be presented to the full council for them to be adopted and passed by the council. Then, a committee of council secretaries in that province has to be constituted so that it can pass decisions of the water utility company.

I thank you, Sir.


84. Mr Chishiba (Kafulafuta) asked the Minister of Home Affairs whether the Government had any plans to establish a police post in Kafulafuta Parliamentary Constituency which had none.

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that it is true that, to date, Kafulafuta Constituency has had no police post apart from a community police post at Chief Nkambo’s Palace. Since 1969, the constituency has been served by Kafulafuta Police Station that is situated at the weighbridge in Masaiti District. Due to the increase in population in Kafulafuta Constituency, the Ministry of Home Affairs has plans in its Infrastructure Development Plan to construct police posts in the area as soon as funds are sourced.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chishiba: Mr Speaker, if an investor provided or sold containers to the community to be used as offices and accommodation in the four wards, as an interim measure, how soon can the ministry provide personnel to the police the constituency?

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, we encourage the communities to work with the Government for their own security. If the community provided some infrastructure, the Government would provide the officers. As I said yesterday, there are 1,500 recruits who are undergoing training at the moment and will graduate in January, next year. They will be deployed in their provinces, starting from March, 2013. Therefore, we would consider deploying some of them in the area if the infrastructure will be ready.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister talked about Kafulafuta Police Station. Kafulafuta Police Station is situated by the roadside. Is that infrastructure worthy of a police station?

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, that infrastructure was established by the United National Independence Party (UNIP) Government in 1969. The previous Government under which the former hon. Minister served, did nothing to rehabilitate the infrastructure.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Simbyakula: We have plans, under our Infrastructure Development Plan to rehabilitate infrastructure countrywide as soon as funds are made available.

I thank you, Sir.

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that the plans will be on the table when funds are made available. Is it not possible to have the plans first so that when the funds are made available, you implement them?

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes.

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, it is possible. The plans are already there, but we preferred to have the funds in the bank first. 

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!


85. Mr Mutale (Kwacha) asked the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock:

(a)whether the Government had any plans to increase the number of cattle in the country to mitigate the shortage of beef; and

(b)whether the Government had any plans to establish a ranch in each province.

The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Mr N. Banda): Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock has plans to increase and sustainably maintain the cattle population in the country and mitigate against beef shortages. This will be done by the implementation of the following measures among others:

(a)disease control through:

(i)construction and rehabilitation of dip tanks countrywide. Thereafter, compulsory dipping programmes to curb the prevalence of tick bone diseases, especially East Cost Fever, will be conducted;

(ii)vaccination against major diseases; and

(iii)establishment of diagnostic laboratories to improve disease diagnosis and surveillance; and

(b)increase production and productivity through:

(i)establishment of artificial insemination service centres and satellite stations in all regions in order to take the service closer to livestock farmers;

(ii)establishment of livestock breeding and service centres to breed animals and improve extension services; and

(iii)establishment of market centres to help commercialise the beef industry. This is to encourage farmers to keep animals as a business, especially small-scale farmers who keep them for prestige and emergencies.

Sir, the Government has plans to establish ranches and breeding centres countrywide at the following ranches:

Name of the Ranch    District    Current Situation

Lundazi     Lundazi    Not re-stocked

Mbesuma    Chinsali    243 Boran cattle

Jiwundu    Solwezi    0

Shang’ombo    Shang’ombo    0

Chishinga    Kawambwa    0

Mutaba    Mpongwe    0

Kalungwishi    Mporokoso    0

    Harmony    Choma    55 boar goats

    Mwinilunga    Mwinilunga    95 boran cattle

    Keembe    Chibombo    150 breeding pigs

    Ngonga    Mongu    0

    Katopola    Chipata    0

    Mukulaikwa    Shibuyunji    236 boar goats, 21 boran
            cattle and 18 sheep

    Kanchindu    Sinazongwe    0

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ntundu (Gwembe): Mr Speaker, increasing cattle population entails cattle …
Mr Matafwali: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Matafwali: Mr Speaker, I apologise for disturbing Hon. Ntundu’s line of thought, but I believe that the point of order I am raising is very important. It relates to an article that appeared in today’s Daily Nation newspaper.

Sir, yesterday, you made a very categorical ruling in the case involving Hon. Dr Kaingu. You said that nobody should make a comment on this matter until the Committee on Privileges, Absences and Support Services disposes of it. I was shocked this morning when I bought the paper and saw a story on page 1 headlined:

    “Kaingu Suspended from Parliament.” 

Mr Speaker, is the Daily Nation newspaper in order to issue such a statement contrary to your ruling? I seek your serious ruling.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Well, this is, obviously, most unfortunate. As I mentioned earlier, this matter has been referred to the Committee on Privileges, Absences and Support Services which has been attending to it and is yet to formal report to the House. I was equally perturbed when I learnt about this unfortunate leakage. Obviously, it could only be from an hon. Member. The matter is under investigation and I earnestly hope we will get to its root.

Again, I would like to appeal to hon. Members of Parliament that there is a need to maintain honour in matters of this sort. We should justify the confidence that is reposed in us. However, I suppose this is a very difficult habit to practise. Nonetheless, I will still urge the House to observe utmost confidentiality. That is as far as I can go.

May the hon. Member for Gwembe continue, please.

Mr Ntundu: Mr Speaker, I was asking the hon. Minister – is that an MMD hon. Minister or a PF one (pointing at Hon. N. Banda)?


Mr Ntundu: Mr Speaker, is the programme of cattle restocking that was left by the MMD going to be brought back by the PF Government?

The Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Mr Chenda): Mr Speaker, we have not yet considered the programme of re-stocking. However, in our quest to improve the livestock industry in this country, we will consider all options that can help us to increase the animal stocks in the country. It is an issue that has not yet been taken on board but, once it is considered, appropriate decisions will be made.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, introducing cattle to the Northern, Muchinga and Luapula provinces is a good thing. However, has the hon. Minister taken the time to educate the people that animals, unlike humans, do not use a hole when urinating?

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Mbewe: Have they got this vital piece of information so that they can look after the animals very well?

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, I am glad to announce that Mbesuma Ranch is in the Northern Province and all the animals that we took there are safe and reproducing very well.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Miyanda (Mapatizya): Mr Speaker, what is the total hectarage of all the named State ranches?

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, that information is there somewhere in our offices and, if the hon. Member’s question was brought as a principal question, we would be able to provide an appropriate answer. I cannot provide the answer off-the-cuff.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, let us refrain from asking follow-up questions that we know require answers that need to be researched. It is obvious that certain information cannot be readily available. Hon. Ministers are not encyclopaedias.


Hon. PF Member: Long live the Chair.

Mr Hamusonde:  Mr Speaker, when will the Government start putting up dip tanks in all the constituencies because, without dip tanks, we cannot have cattle?

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, we have embarked on an aggressive programme to construct additional dip tanks and rehabilitate old ones. I appeal to the hon. Member of Parliament to wait and see what is contained in the 2013 Budget.

I thank you, Sir.


86.    Mr Chansa (Chimbamilonga) asked the Minister of Home Affairs:

(a)whether the Government had any plans to construct immigration offices at Nsumbu Border Post in Chimbamilonga Parliamentary Constituency; and

(b)when more Immigration officers would be posted to the border post.

The Deputy Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Kampyongo): Mr Speaker, the Department of Immigration has plans to construct an immigration office block and three staff houses at Nsumbu Border Post in Chimbamilonga Parliamentary Constituency. The construction works are planned to commence in 2013 and the project is estimated to cost K1.5 billion.

Sir, more officers will be sent to Nsumbu Border Post in Chimbamilonga Constituency when the Immigration Assistants currently undergoing training at Lilayi Police College graduate in November, 2012.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chisala (Chilubi): Mr Speaker, do we have any officers at Nsumbu Border Post in Chimbamilonga currently?

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, we have immigration officers in Kaputa District. However, we are aware that it has been very difficult for the officers to man the border post because there is no infrastructure.

I thank you, Sir.


87.    Mr Chisala asked the Minister of Health: 

(a)how many patients were treated by the Northern Province Health Office during its mobile clinic exercise in Chilubi District in January, 2012;

(b)of the patients at (a), how many were:

(i)operated on; and

(ii)referred to other health facilities and for which illnesses; and

(c)    how much money was spent on the exercise.

The Deputy Minister of Health (Mr Chikusu): Mr Speaker, 2,431 patients were treated in Chilubi District during the mobile clinic exercise conducted by the Ministry of Health in January, 2012. 

Sir, those operated on and or referred to other health facilities were as follows:

(a)232 patients were operated on. Out of these, twenty-five had major operations while the other 207 had between minor and moderate operations; and

(b)twenty-seven cases were referred to other health facilities, ten of which were for blood transfusion while seventeen were for counselling, treatment and care and further management.

Mr Speaker, K80 million was used during the mobile clinic exercise that was undertaken in Chilubi District as follows:

(a)K22 million was used on fuel; and

(b)K58 million was used for allowances for staff for one week.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, the programme sounds effective. Would it not be wiser for the Government to conduct this programme on a monthly basis so as to lessen the problems that patients face, especially in the swamps of Chilubi Parliamentary Constituency?

The Minister of Health (Dr Kasonde): Mr Speaker, I agree with the hon. Member that it would be a good thing for us to maintain monthly visits to Chilubi Island. Regrettably, our present capacity does not allow for that. However, I am sure that we shall increase the number of visits although not quite to the extent the hon. Member wants us to suggest.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simbao (Senga Hill): Mr Speaker, the nine islands have a population of about 40,000. I am glad to hear that the hon. Minister is actually willing to start a programme where he will be going there every month. Would it not be wise to quickly construct a district hospital in that place?


Mrs Kawandami: This man was Minister of Health. 

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, I entirely share the wisdom of the hon. Member. 

Mrs Kawandami: He should have done it when he was Minister of Health.

Dr Kasonde: Indeed, I am sure that is what he was trying to do when his stay in the Ministry of Health was curtailed by various circumstances …


Dr Kasonde: … which are not  entirely…


Mr Speaker: They could be democratic.


Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, the issue of establishing a district hospital in Chilubi Island has been on my table. The delay has been due to discussions and consultations regarding two points which came through in the hon. Member’s question. 

Sir, firstly, we are not just talking of one island, but a number of them. Therefore, the location within those islands would be a matter for consultation. Secondly, we need to take into consideration the people on the mainland who have to use the medical institution which is on the island which is under the Roman Catholic Church. This is because that is the only medical institution which is available in that area. We are also faced with demands from those who have no medical institutions at all as well as those who already have but are not adequate. In these circumstances, I decided that first and foremost, we should address the concerns of the mainland. I did invite my colleagues in the district to discuss this issue and see where we could go from there, but no options have come up. That is where we stand.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ntundu: Mr Speaker, whether it is for a minor operation or major operation, a patient needs care. Since these are mobile hospitals, what happens to patients who have had major operations? Do the doctors carry the patients with them?

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, I would like to urge the hon. Member for Gwembe that wherever we are attending to patients, we consider a fixed hospital and a mobile one. Our philosophy is that these are complementary activities. Therefore, whenever we invite a mobile clinic to provide services, we do so in the context of the availability of a fixed structure for follow up. This, in fact, is a determinant of the activities we have been carrying out. There is a fundamental difference in our approach from our colleagues in the previous Government.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mufalali (Senanga): Mr Speaker, I want to thank the hon. Minister for providing mobile clinics in the islands. May I know whether the minor operations included male circumcision?


Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, I do not have the detailed list of operations. I would certainly classify male circumcision under the minor category. I would recommend to the hon. Member that we certainly have such facilities both in the mobile and fixed facilities should he wish to have a course in that service.

I thank you, Sir.



88. Mr Chisala asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education how many desks were procured and distributed to schools in the following districts in the Northern Province in 2011.

Mr P. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, the distribution of desks in the Northern Province in 2011 was as follows:

    District     No. of Desks for Basic Schools    No. of Desks for High School         Total

Chilubi     921    468    1,389
Kaputa     2,325    Nil    2,325
Mporokoso    3,009     500     3,509  
Mungwi    3,167      500    3,667 
Mpulungu     2,414    Nil    2,414 
Kasama     1,444    3,299     4,743

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, may I know why the distribution of desks was not extended to community schools.

Mr P. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education distributed desks to almost all the districts in the provinces. If you go to the District Education Board Secretary’s (DEBS) Office, you will find desks that have not yet been collected. I would assure the hon. Member that if he went to his constituency, he would find the desks I am talking about. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Bwalya (Lupososhi): Mr Speaker, the distribution of desks is, indeed, a very good exercise. However, mostly, we find that when the desks are delivered to the district, they are marooned there because the DEBS office does not have transport to distribute them to the far-flung areas where the schools are? Are we going to see an improvement in the distribution of desks so that they can reach the intended destination in good time?

Mr P. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, the ministry is fully aware of that problem. In the few districts that I have visited, I have actually found these desks still heaped at the DEBS office. However, the ministry is trying to change the system as soon as possible so that desks are distributed directly to the schools from the manufacturers. 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa): Mr Speaker, may I find out from the hon. Minister when the next distribution of desks will be because, in Kaputa, we have run out of desks.

Mr P. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, this is an on-going exercise.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mutale: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Deputy Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education aware that some of the desks being distributed are made from cheap board and are already breaking. 

Mr P. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, the ministry is currently having a discussion with the manufacturers so that good quality desks can be produced. Manufacturers who will not follow our guidelines will be stopped from supplying desks.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Hamudulu (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, in his response, the hon. Deputy Minister said the ministry was looking at possibilities of delivering desks straight from the manufacturers to the respective schools. Is he aware that it will be more costly to do that?

Mr P. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, in order to avoid breakages as well as prolonging the stay of the desks at the DEBS office, the ministry will still consider doing that.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwanza (Solwezi West): Mr Speaker, may I find out from the hon. Minister whether the desks are inspected before they are delivered to the respective schools.

Mr P. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, there are inspectors who do that.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.{mospagebreak}


89. Mr Njeulu (Sinjembela) asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication when the Zambia Information and Communication Technology Authority (ZICTA), in conjunction with Airtel, would construct communication towers at the following places in Sinjembela Parliamentary Constituency:



(c)Mutunda; and

The Deputy Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Dr Mwali): Mr Speaker, towers and associated mobile communication equipment were installed and commissioned in June, this year, at Natukoma and Mbopuma. Although Mutunda and Mutomena are not yet covered, they are, nonetheless, on the ZICTA Roll-out Plan.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Hamusonde: Mr Speaker, communication towers are needed countrywide. May I know the reason these towers have not been placed in all the constituencies because the network is bad.

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, the provision of mobile communication is among the many areas in which this Government aims at excelling. We are aware of the gaps that exist. Between 13th August and 18th September this year, we sent a team of engineers throughout the country to check on the areas that are not yet covered. However, the team only came back last week. We are, currently, compiling information so that we can find ways of covering the remaining areas.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has indicated that a team of engineers was sent around the country to carry out feasibility studies. The team did not reach some areas, including Chilubi. What plans does the hon. Minister have for this area?

The Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Mr Yaluma): Mr Speaker, the first team of surveyors that went round to check for places where the network has not yet reached completed the task and brought the results. There is another team that is taking off from the first week of November (that is before the start of the rainy season) up to January. I am sure all the areas will be covered before the end of the year so that, next year, we will execute the job.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chishiba: Mr Speaker, may I found out from the hon. Minister why the hon. Members of Parliament of all the respective constituencies were not included in the surveyors’ team because, we were told on the Floor of this House that they would be part of the team in order to easily solve this problem.

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, some places were easy to locate. The surveyors went to those areas and easily located the co-ordinates. They also monitored how far the coverage would go and, in good instances, it was discovered that it would go up to 40 km from one tower. Once this was established, they moved to another area. However, should there be another opportunity, we will do that.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Ng’onga: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that even in places like Kaputa, where the towers have been installed, the quality of the network is still bad?

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, we know that there are overlaps in coverage due to some hurdles such as mountains. In such instances, we go back and trace the network to see where there are overlaps and take note of the areas which have not been covered. The officers will try and see how they can rectify this. There are two options. We either need to increase the height of the tower, move it a little or add another VTS which will cover the gap to the existing tower. We are, therefore, aware of this and working on it. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, the former hon. Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication had promised this House that the ministry would roll out the installation of the towers. The hon. Minister has just talked about rolling out again. Can we know when, exactly, this will be done. Is the ministry working with the mobile service providers because, sometimes, they tell us that they are not ready to do what the hon. Minister is talking about? 

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament for Kalomo Central is right. A ministerial statement was made in this House concerning this matter. What we are talking about now is, exactly, what was presented by my predecessor. 

We promised the House that a survey would be carried out. This has been done. Rolling out simply means execution. We could not start the implementation without knowing which areas had no coverage. This, however, has been done.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.  

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, there are some towers that were erected by ZICTA, and others by Mobile Telephone Network (MTN) and Airtel. I know that the ones raised by ZICTA are being utilised by Airtel. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister who is supposed to pay rentals to the owners of the land where these towers are erected.

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, the erection of the towers was a concerted effort of Airtel, the MTN and Zambia Telecommunications Company (ZAMTEL), with the full briefing from the regulator, ZICTA. Therefore, when any service provider goes to erect a tower, there are negotiations and contracts that are signed. How the rentals will be paid is agreed upon upfront. I, therefore, do not think that there is anybody whose premises have been utilised, but has not been paid. If there is anyone, please, let us know and we shall go to the appropriate operator and ensure that it is sorted out.  

I thank you, Sir. 


90. Mr Njeulu asked the Minister of Finance:

(a)when the funds allocated for the development of Shang’ombo District would be released; and

(b)why there had been a delay in the official opening of Shang’ombo Border Post.

The Deputy Minister of Finance (Mr Sampa): Mr Speaker, first and foremost, I wish to inform this august House that in the 2012 Budget, there was a provision of K1,204,183,300 for the development of Shang’ombo District. Of this amount, K804,183,300 is for the construction and maintenance of Nangweshi/Sinjembela Road which is about 10 km long. The balance of K400,000,000 is for the office block for the district commission. 

Mr Speaker, the entire provision for the Nangweshi/Sinjembela Road was released by the Treasury in July, 2012, as per the profile by the district administration. With regard to the funds for the construction of the office block, the Treasury has, so far, released K150,000,000 out of the K400,000,000 allocated. The balance will be released as and when the provincial administration requests and profiles it. The district commission office block is actually at roof level at the moment. 

Mr Speaker, our records show that Shang’ombo Border was opened in 1972, and has been operational since. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that the delays in infrastructure development for Shang’ombo District is a burden to Senanga District?

Mr Sampa: Mr Speaker, our data indicates that construction works are going on at the moment. The funds for the works are in the process of being released and, as soon as they are utilised, the ministry will release some more. We are, therefore, doing our part, and the administration in the province is working to expedite the works. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 




Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, before the hon. Member for Kasenengwa continues with her debate, I wish to remind the House that, at the time it was adjourning yesterday, a point of order had been raised by the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs on the use of the presidential jet by the First Lady, and I was in the process of completing my ruling on the point of order. I now wish to complete my ruling. 

Hon. Members, I wish to state that there is no statutory law governing the use of the aircraft in question by the First Lady. However, notwithstanding the absence of a statutory law, we do have case law. This case law was settled in the case of Evelyn Kangwa, Marjorie Kaponda vs. Thandiwe Banda and the Attorney-General. This is in summary of what the High Court had to say. Those of you who would like to apprise yourselves about the details of this decision can visit the Zambia Law Reports, 2010, Vol. I, Page 388. It is a long judgment and so I will just highlight the relevant portion of the decision, namely: 

“By conversion, the First Lady is entitled to a variety of privileges and these include; transport, security, support staff, air travel, fuel, food, etc.”

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Therefore, in light of the law, as settled by the case of Evelyn Kangwa, Marjorie Kaponda vs. Thandiwe Banda and the Attorney-General, the hon. Member of Parliament for Kasenengwa was certainly out of order …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: … to impeach the First Lady for use of the aircraft in question.

As we continue with our debate, I would like to restate the rulings I made yesterday, that the left is at liberty to counsel the right against wrongdoing, but let us do so with modicum of civility. I think civility demands that we do not make over simplified generalisations and insinuations, especially suggesting commission of criminality.

Yesterday, I mentioned that power is like a pendulum. One moment, it will be on the left and the other moment, it will be on the right. So, I think we should empathise because you may be on the right one day …

Mr Musukwa: After fifty years!

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!


Mr Speaker: … and may not wish to be subjected to unsubstantiated allegations of criminality.

Above all, the decorum and dignity of the House demands that, as much as I allow and promote robust debate, we should be fair to each other in the manner in which we debate issues.

With those few remarks and my ruling, I will now invite the hon. Member of Parliament for Kasenengwa to continue with her debate.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!




(Debate resumed)

Ms Kalima (Kasenengwa): Mr Speaker, thank you. When the Business of the House was adjourned yesterday, I was talking about corruption. I stated that the fight against corruption should be done with a passion and without negotiation and segregation as it was done in the Mwanawasa era. That has not been seen in this Government.

Sir, I cited a number of examples such as the oil saga, among others. I also stated that the Abuse of Office Clause was enacted by this House and that it is not just meant for the Opposition but for every citizen in Zambia. I cautioned the hon. Members from the Patriotic Front (PF) Government to be cautious with the way they handle activities while in Government. Indeed, if they continue …

Mr Kalaba: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order. Yesterday, you ruled on the fact that we should debate issues that are substantive and that can be authenticated.

In her preamble, the hon. Member of Parliament for Kasenengwa is saying that yesterday, she spoke about the oil saga and that kind of stuff, and yet you have ruled that she had no facts on that issue. Is she in order to disregard your ruling even when you guided so wisely? 

Is she in order to proceed in that manner? I need your serious ruling.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: I did not specifically state or rule that she did not have facts on the so-called oil saga. I did not say that. Notwithstanding, I would like to reiterate that there is a need to be factual in our debates. I know we have a number of tabloids, and it is part of democracy to have all manner of stories floated, and some of them, with good reason or otherwise, are taken as gospel truth. However, when we come to the proceedings of the House, it is important that hon. Members are personally satisfied about the veracity of what they imbibe from these tabloids. There is a risk of hon. Members peddling something that has no basis in the process. 

I would not want to engage the hon. Member on this issue that is the subject of the point of order. All I can say is that she needs to bear in mind that counsel as she continues with her debate.

I earnestly think that it is possible to deal with the broader issues and fairly so. I do not want to cite excellent examples of debates, especially on the left. I marvel at the excellence of certain debates on the left. All I wish is that we could all rise to that level of debate. I think it would be more enriching and beneficial even to the citizens of this country.

The hon. Member may continue, please.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Kalima: Mr Speaker, thank you. Before I was interrupted by the point of order, I was saying that the Abuse of Office Clause was not enacted for Members from the Opposition only, but also every Zambian. 

I just would like to caution the Government to be very cautious not to misuse the taxpayers’ money. Otherwise, this Abuse of Office Clause will be waiting to visit them. They should remember that the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) was on that side too, but is now on this side. Probably, in 2016, we will be on that side.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Kalima: Therefore, they will not be there forever.


Mr Speaker: I think she is using an advisory term. She used the term ‘probably’.


Mr Musukwa: Power is a pendulum!

Ms Kalima: Mr Speaker, the President cautioned the hon. Members from the PF to consult by citing a number of intelligent well-learned and qualified hon. Members in the MMD such as Hon. Dr Chituwo. The President cautioned the PF Members on their pronouncements.

Sir, we have heard a number of pronouncements in this House that have gone without being implemented. For example, in their very first speeches, the President and the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock spoke about the fifteen bags of fertiliser that they said were supposed to be given to farmers, but what have we seen? 

This week, the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock stated that only four bags of fertiliser will be given to the farmers. This is a programme which was started by the MMD.

We have heard a number of pronouncements such as the re-introduction of the Zambia National Service (ZNS) Training camps. However, I wonder if all the Grade 12 school leavers, starting from 2013, will be enrolled at the ZNS. I ask myself how many ZNS Training camps we have. How many private and Government schools do we have? Has the Government conducted a feasibility study to gauge how possible this is? It shows that this is just another pronouncement.

Mr Speaker, we have heard all about the new districts that have been created. Earlier this week, we heard the hon. Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development talk about feasibility studies. What comes first between implementation and feasibility studies? We have also been informed that the Government is conducting feasibility studies on how to develop the energy sector. Why were the feasibility studies not conducted before creating the new districts?

Sir, there are many other pronouncements such as how the Government intended to take over all the community schools, and yet the next minute, the Government was saying that it would not take them over. So, one wonders why the Government makes pronouncements which it does not follow through.

Mr Speaker, that is why the President was cautioning the hon. PF Members, especially the hon. Ministers, from shying away from consulting. It is worrying to hear such pronouncements that do not yield any fruits because this just proves my point that we have a patient in the intensive care unit (ICU) and this patient is Zambia.

Sir, this country is on auto-pilot and, if it continues on this mode, it will crash. I get very concerned with such pronouncements.

In conclusion, listening to the President’s Speech and the proverbs by an hon. Minister in this House yesterday, made me realise, as a born-again Christian, …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Kalima: … why …


Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Government Members: Dorica is now born again! Dorica!

Ms Kalima: … I do not care what people think about me because I am born again and washed in the blood of Jesus …


Ms Kalima: Some people are advocating for the removal of the declaration of Zambia as a Christian nation from the Constitution, which was not even talked about by the President. 

Sir, if we could be asked to abbreviate a name …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, your guidance to this House has been very clear and I am failing to grasp what the hon. Member is talking about. If I have heard her correctly, and I know she is Zambian and knows that Zambia has different tribes and languages. Is she in order to start insinuating that there is an hon. Minister in this House who made a statement related to the religious status of this nation? She has confused herself and now wants to confuse the whole House. Is she in order to continue debating like that? 

I need your serious ruling, Sir.

Mr Speaker: I made a ruling yesterday on the proverb or, broadly speaking, on the folklore in question and indicated that the hon. Minister was not out of order. So, I think, it is quite unprofitable to begin harping around this subject any further. 

I also want to caution the House that we have agreed to focus on the substance of the President’s Speech. So, let us keep it that way. An earlier ruling was made that hon. Members are at liberty to refer to both the written speech as well as to the verbatim one but, even in the context of the verbatim report, I will expect you to exercise judgment and decipher the substantive issues there. I do not think that this should be a difficult thing to do.

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.{mospagebreak}

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

Ms Kalima: Mr Speaker, before business was suspended, I was saying that, as a born-again Christian, I was baffled with what was currently prevailing in the PF Government.

Sir, the PF Government has failed lamentably, as can be seen from its in-fighting. Its members are already fighting for the Presidency at the expense of development, just after one year of being in office. 

Sir, as I conclude, I would like to say that it is a shame for members of a Government that claims to be pro-poor to be fighting for the Presidency of the party and the nation.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Belemu (Mbabala): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank you for this opportunity to debate the President’s Address to this august House.

Sir, the President, in his address, touched on a number of issues concerning tourism, such as Zambia’s co-hosting of the United Nations World Tourism Organisation (UNWTO) General Assembly and Conference with Zimbabwe as well as the need for hon. Members to be part of the domestic tourism market. To this effect, President Sata even invited Hon. Muntanga to go bungee-jumping with the hon. Minister of Tourism and Arts, ...

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Belemu: … assumedly because of the trousers she wore, although I did not have the opportunity to see the trousers. That, notwithstanding, it is interesting that the PF Government seems to think that it has developed this country’s tourism, instead of destroying it in its one year in office. The hon. Minister of Tourism and Arts came on the Floor of this House and boasted about how her Government had developed Zambia’s tourism. I would like to demonstrate that, in fact, in its one year in office, the PF Government has caused damage to this very important economic sector.

Sir, tourism, like any other economic sector, responds to environmental stimuli and, in this case, a conducive political and judicial environment is very important for tourism to grow. Tourism responds to what is happening in the political arena.

Mr Speaker, I would like to pose a few questions for the PF Government to reflect on, as to whether they are causing damage to or building the country’s tourism sector.

Sir, when the hon. Minister of Defence publicly alleges that there are people who are trying to assassinate the President, does that help to develop the country’s tourism or it damages it? I know investigations are being conducted even though the country is not being updated.

Mr Speaker, people who travel, always want to know the profile of the country they are going to so that they can plan well in advance. They are aware of what happens in African countries when the President is assassinated. The PF Government seems to think that they have developed Zambia’s tourism as opposed to damaging it, but it is my contention that they have damaged it.

Mr Speaker, does it help tourism if people who go to mourn can be attacked by PF cadres at a cathedral? On the other hand, we are being urged to be tourists in this country. If we are not safe in a cathedral, how safe are we to go to a lodge? How safe are we to go bungee-jumping with the hon. Minister of Tourism and Arts if we are not safe to even mourn? Does that help or destroy tourism? It destroys domestic tourism because some people in this country, today, are afraid of visiting some sites lest PF cadres find them alone.

Mr Kalaba: What about William Banda?

Mr Belemu: Mr Speaker, is it helping or damaging tourism when a provincial hon. Minister who is domiciled in a tourism capital like Livingstone, can go to the media and declare that Livingstone is a no-go area for someone just on account of being a leader of an opposition political party? Meanwhile, that political leader is also an investor in the same city. When a tourist who wants to visit this country researches and finds that a provincial hon. Minister is saying a given city is a no-go area for a fellow citizen, do you think that tourist will come to that city?

Mr Speaker, does it help or damage tourism when somebody who is called by the police to answer to charges is tear-gassed and beaten up right at the police station? Do you think that an international tourist who comes to Zambia and loses an item would be free to go and report to a police station? My contention is that such acts destroy tourism. It is a very interesting state of affairs.

Mr Speaker, does it help or destroy tourism when citizens are being denied the right to assemble, associate or speak freely? There are travellers who move in big groups ranging from twenty to even 100. The Chinese can even travel in a group of over 200 tourists. Not too long ago, Hon. Mweetwa, Hon. Mufalali and I we were in Mongu where we were denied an indoor meeting with our friends. 

Mr Kalaba interjected.

Mr Belemu: That is domestic tourism, if you did not know. There is a section of tourism called MICE, which stands for meetings, incentives, conferencing and events. When I go to a lodge in Mongu, I will feed people and buy them drinks. That is part of tourism development in that area.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Belemu: If citizens cannot be allowed to assemble, do you think that there will be somebody out there who is going to sell Zambia as a destination for conferencing? How are foreigners going to have a conference in Zambia if citizens cannot be allowed to assemble? That also destroys tourism as opposed to building it.

Mr Speaker, does it help to develop or destroy tourism if a junior officer can go on the public media and declare that the police will meet with United Party for National Development (UPND) cadres on the battlefront as if Zambia was at war? What impression does such a statement give to somebody who wants to come to Zambia? 

Mr Muntanga: Hear, hear!

Mr Belemu: What is the battle that we are in? The Government should tell us if Zambia is at war so that we are also ready and take off our ties.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!


Mr Belemu: Mr Speaker, it is strange that the PF Government thinks that it has developed tourism in this country. One of the Ruling Party’s first acts in office was to release hundreds of prisoners who were serving sentences related to poaching. After doing this, our colleagues on your right want to talk about promoting tourism and conservation and wear Zambia Wildlife Authority (ZAWA) uniforms. That ZAWA uniform will not protect our wildlife. It is the type of decisions that we make, as a country, that will help us to develop the tourism sector. We have had very sad incidences in this sector. 

Sir, I want to contend that some of the damages the PF has caused in one year may take us ten years to repair. Travellers make decisions well in advance and they want to know the country where they are going. One of our major selling points in marketing Zambia is that it is a safe, peaceful and secure destination. If people are going to be denied the right to assemble and beaten while the police is declaring that they are going to battle with cadres, are we confirming that Zambia is no longer a safe destination? The Government is making this destination unsafe and very difficult to market for a number of us who have got the passion and capacity to market Zambia’s tourism.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Belemu: Mr Speaker, before I leave the subject of tourism, let me point out that there were hunting concessions that were advertised and, within no time, those advertisements were cancelled and what was called for was a workshop. I want to advise the PF Government that the hunting concession blocks must be given out in line with the Citizens Economic Empowerment Act and the statutory instrument (SI) that followed therefrom so that citizens are given preference. What we tend to think, now, is that there are people who probably supported the PF in one way or the other and went to complain that they were being threatened by Zambians who wanted to apply for those hunting blocks. Let the hon. Minister of Tourism and Arts, and the Government, at large, acquit themselves by giving the hunting blocks to the majority of Zambian applicants with potential so that they can benefit from this sector.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear! 

Mr Belemu: Otherwise, it is just rhetoric to say that our colleagues that side will develop Zambia’s tourism.

Mr Muntanga: Hear, hear!

Mr Belemu: Mr Speaker, we expected the Government, through the President’s Address, to give us an update on how far it had gone in looking at the critical issues and making the building blocks for the development of Zambia’s tourism. We also expected the hon. Minister of Tourism and Arts to come and amplify on that at some stage. For example, we expected to hear how far the Government had gone in developing a hospitality grading and standards systems for this country. As we speak, even the hotels we are calling five or three star are not because Zambia does not have a credible grading system. 

Mr Speaker, we should have learnt from the World Cup 2010 hosted by South Africa. One of the reasons we never benefited, in terms of accommodating people here, was because of the non-existence of a credible grading and standards system. Now that we are talking of hosting the UNWTO Conference, things will happen the same way because, when those who are going to attend this conference scan around for information about Zambia, they want to find that a five-star hotel in Zambia is the same standard as one in the United Kingdom (UK) or Zimbabwe. As things stand today, Zimbabwe stands a better chance of benefiting from providing accommodation to delegates to the conference because a standard grading system does not exist in Zambia and the Government is quiet over this. All we are being told is that the tourism sector in this country has been developed. How has this been done? It is very difficult for operators to market our tourism. One of the questions international tourists will ask is, “What is the grade of your facility?” If you cannot answer that question, you have already lost out. Even when you are talking about accommodation for the UNWTO Conference, our colleagues across may benefit more than us.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Belemu: Mr Speaker, the current Tourism Policy was developed in the early 2000s and it had been outdated from as early as 2004. If the Government cannot update that policy and wants to brag about developing Zambia’s tourism, how has it done it? What is our marketing policy, for example? Which markets are being targeted? Is it the high-value, low-volume or mass markets? For example, when we say that we are going to market tourism in America, which markets are we going to market to? Mind you, America has got different states that have different characteristics and profiles. The people’s visiting and interacting habits are different, depending on the state they come from. Australia is different from South Africa or the UK. So, which markets is the Government telling us that it has been marketing to?

Mr Muntanga: Hear, hear!


Mr Belemu: We expected the Government to tell us how far it had gone in developing a tourism policy. We also expected it to come and tell us how far it had gone in developing Zambia’s master plan for tourism development, not the clusters we were told about under the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry. Those are different things. I do not know them, but I know that Zambia’s tourism product is also in clusters. Which clusters, for example, are we going to prioritise this year and going forward? What has happened to the Northern Circuit, Greater Livingstone, Lower Zambezi and Greater Lusaka projects? Those are the things that we wanted to hear about, not seeing people just wearing ZAWA uniform trousers because they think that they have developed tourism.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!


Mr Belemu: Mr Speaker, allow me to go to another matter that caught my attention in the President’s Address. This is the statement that His Honour the Vice-President must visit all parts of the Southern Province because the people there allegedly like bakuwa or white men. If that is the only reason His Honour the Vice-President must come to the Southern Province, then he is in for a rude shock. We do not eat skin pigment … 

Mr Speaker: Order!

I mentioned earlier that we should exercise judgment to identify issues that were probably made in jest and those that are of substance. If you develop a submission on a matter which clearly may not be substantive, then it will not do. I think it is obvious that we should be able to identify issues. We are using very precious time, and I must emphasise that this is precious time. I hope I will not have to belabour this point. 

You may continue, hon. Member.

Mr Belemu: Thank you, Mr Speaker, for your guidance. I want to proceed by saying the people of Mbabala Constituency that I am privileged to represent in this august House, not individuals per se, are looking for development. 

Mr Speaker, when dams, water, schools, roads and many other developmental projects are provided, then we will appreciate this Government. There is this mentality in the PF suggesting that if development is taken to areas that are represented by Opposition Members of Parliament, then they are doing them a favour. For example, it was said in this House about Gwembe that even when they did not vote for the PF, the Bottom Road is being constructed.  The PF Government is in power and, as long as it collects taxes from Zambians and runs the affairs of this country, it has an obligation to take development to all parts of the country, including Mbabala Constituency. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear! 

Mr Belemu: God willing, I will come back in 2016 and, hopefully, as a Cabinet Minister.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear! 

Mr Belemu: Mr Speaker, on matters of decentralisation, yes, I take note that Pemba, which was part of Choma, has been turned into a district. The strange part of it is that going along with that pronouncement, there was a letter asking Choma District to give assets to Pemba. It was given one hearse, which is broken down, one old ‘Keep Pemba Clean’ vehicle and K1.9 million which was in the account to start a district. Can you call that decentralisation and taking power to the people by giving them a broken-down hearse? 

Mr Speaker, while talking about decentralisation, I have taken note of the transfer of the provincial capital from Livingstone to Choma. However, I want to state that if the focus will just be on developing offices for the provincial headquarters and ignoring Mbabala that I represent, and since there are no street traders, as they are called now, where I come from, we shall bring our animals into town so that this Government is punished with littering the town with cow dung because there is no street trading there. The point I am making is that while we are talking about decentralisation and taking development to the people, let us consider rural areas like Mbabala which happens to be near the new provincial capital where a six-storey building will be built. The people who will occupy that building will be punished with having animals grazing in the airstrip and they will smell the cow dung. Maybe, when this is done, they will remember the need to construct dams, dip tanks, schools and technical colleges in rural areas as well. It is not enough to say that they are decentralising and taking power to the people when you are not giving them the resources for this. 

Mr Speaker, in conclusion, may I say that it is disappointing to note that in the first one year of PF rule, we expected a very clear update on how far it has gone in developing this country. Some of us have begun to wonder whether the PF has become like a common dictator who will come and make many promises like Mr Adolph Hitler did and turning one language group against the other, by saying that there will be development after ninety days. Mr Adolph Hitler promised people that he was going to develop the country, taking advantage of the depression of the 1920s and the Weimar Republic and also the weaknesses that were discovered at the end of the First World War (WWI). Within no time, when he failed to do those things, he looked for scapegoats. Now, the same thing is happening with the PF Government. We are beginning to see the PF looking for scapegoats. When workers are asking for an increase in wages and students want this or that, they say the Opposition is inciting them. When a priest preaches, he is deported. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Belemu: Those are the true characteristics of a dictator. I would like to advise the PF Government to come up with policies that will develop this country and not look for scapegoats.

Mr Speaker, I take your counsel that this is very serious business, but we demand the Government also to become serious. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Belemu: Otherwise, it will not work for the Opposition to be serious while the other side is full of comedy. We want this Government to succeed so that the people of Zambia can succeed but, if it fails, we will appreciate it because we warned the Zambians against voting for it.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Dr Chituwo (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, I am most grateful for giving me this opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Speech of His Excellency the President to this House.

Mr Speaker, I listened very attentively when His Excellency the President was addressing this House. Among the many things that I heard in the Speech was the counsel of his hon. Ministers. The piece of advice was timely because he was very blunt. For the sake of the records, I worked with the current President of the Republic of Zambia about twenty years ago and I think we did a good job, but I have seen a change in him, naturally, I think, due to wear and tear. 


Dr Chituwo: Sir, Dr Phiri was mentioned quite a number of times, though he is not in the House. He was the supervisor of His Excellency the President’s thesis. The President stated how, naturally, as a strict supervisor, he demanded so much from one’s student but, eventually, they ended very well except I am not very sure at what level this thesis was. However, I think, in due course, we shall be able to learn more.

Mr Speaker, one message I got from the President’s Address was reaching out to the Opposition, but when we recall the happenings at the funeral of the former First Lady, the police unleashing their buttons on unarmed innocent youths and permits being denied although the Constitution gives us the right of assembly and association, one wonders what is going on. Is there lack of understanding by some hon. Ministers because the President’s instructions were very clear? The PF is a Government of laws. 

Why, then, are some hon. Ministers behaving in such a manner? I think that we need an explanation. One day, it is a permit refused for the UPND, the next day it will be the MMD and the day after, it will be another party. So, who is going to talk to our people? Who is going to explain the developmental projects or the lack of development to our people? Should it only be one side? Certainly, we cannot call that democracy? Some hon. Ministers should be take these directives seriously.

Mr Speaker, as I listened carefully, his Excellency the President implored the hon. Ministers to answer questions raised in this House. When we ask questions in this House, it is not that we are seeking tutorials from the hon. Ministers so that the next day we can sit for examinations. I think that quite a number of hon. Members here have sat for enough examinations. The only examination we have is our people. When we ask questions, it is because a diverse group of people is saying can you find out for us from the respective hon. Ministers the issues pertaining to, for instance, the purchase of maize, the policy in agriculture, what kind of equipment are we talking about for irrigation and why is it that we have no dams? This is why we ask questions. However, it appears that quite a number of our colleagues on the other side think that it is Dr Chituwo who wants to know. Of course, I want to know because I was sent here by the people who want to know the issues affecting their welfare. I hope there will be a change.

Worse still, when answers are forthcoming, it is as if they are being given to people who are less than able to understand. That is not right. We demand that when we ask questions on behalf of the people who brought us here, they are answered. I am sure that even nominated hon. Members of Parliament are also anxious because some day they may, like I did, aspire to seek the people’s mandate.

Mr Speaker, in asking these questions, we are concerned that this information reaches the electorate in the rural areas and those who have no access to newspapers so that through this medium they are able to have the information that they need. It, therefore, goes to show that we cannot adopt the doctrine of donchi kubeba because if we kept quiet, then I do not know what our friends would say. 

We are not in the league of people who would maliciously enjoy somebody’s misfortune. The success of the PF Government is the success of the Zambian people, period. We may have different vehicles and always look at issues differently but, please, I am pleading, our views should not be dismissed outrightly without giving them thought. Some of us were that side for some time and, therefore, know what it means to listen and this was the message of his Excellency the President.

Mr Speaker, his Excellency the President mentioned about the allocation of universities. It is well that there are two universities in Chinsali, Lusaka and other places. How I wish the President would have outlined the plan for the opening of these universities across the country so that our people can expectantly prepare to receive this good news. 

One issue that his Excellency the President mentioned was in regard to trades training schools and skills training. The MMD left this programme. Our plan was anchored in the Sixth National Development Plan (SNDP) and Vision 2030 that each district must have a trades training institute. I note that, at one time, there were national service camps. I need clarification because our people are getting confused. Are we talking of these trades training institutes that his Excellency mentioned in Lundazi, Kalabo, Solwezi, Milenge and other areas or different training institutes altogether?

Mr Speaker, the President emphasised that if you want to fight, you must do so with ideas. Violence should not be tolerated. This was directed at some of the hon. Ministers. We see that when there is violence – and we have seen this as I cited earlier – none of the senior officials stand up to condemn it. What would be the interpretation of that? It can only mean that, in fact, violence is being tolerated. Surely, we say these things not out of malice or because they are our enemies, but so that they can work better. After all, when we leave this House and go downstairs to have a cup of tea, we address each other by first name. That is how it is supposed to be even with our cadres, but they can only do that if they can get a leaf from the leadership of the various parties, particularly the PF.

Mr Speaker, I speak from experience because, in Muchinga, I was at a station called Kofikunda during the Muchinga Bye-election and there was this horde of imported hefty young men from Lusaka that came and beat up my boys and girls. It was really shameful. Obviously, they were strangers because those who live there could not afford to fight each other. They live side by side. 


Mr Speaker: Order, order! 

No running comments. 

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, it is not worth it. As you have rightly said, politics are like a pendulum. I want to warn my colleagues against this euphoria of saying, “I am this side and, therefore, know everything.” It is not possible for one to know everything.  We all can contribute to the running of this country, even in the Opposition. In fact, it is even better in the Opposition because there you see the ball much clearer than when you are seated on the right. Defensiveness will not really improve our country.

Mr Speaker, let me move on to the health sector. At one time, the President was Minister of Health. In his Speech, he shared with the House how he introduced me to politics and how he campaigned for me. I wonder how many of my colleagues had the President campaign for them. However, time had not come and in 2000, I lost the elections but, came to this House later. What I am trying to say, like the President stated, is that for a baby to be born, the pregnancy has to mature. We have seen a number of areas in the health sector improve. They have not improved overnight. It has been a cumulation of programmes and projects over the years. Our prayer is that my elder brother, the hon. Minister of Health, will take up from where his predecessor left because, as professionals, you cannot divert from that which you have set for yourselves, that is, the service of our people.

Maternal health improved from 2000 to 2010. There was a reduction in deaths from 729 to 519 per 100,000 live births. These are figures which we have shared in this House. Child mortality has reduced, immunisation coverage has been over 80 per cent and the anti-malaria coverage was over the Abuja target of 66 per cent. These achievements were arrived at because of the concerted effort of the medical teams, leadership and our partners. For one to claim that they did all that you see, of course, there are certain things that were left undone. If we had done everything, Mr Speaker, I wonder what the subsequent Government would have to do. 

Our economy is very small, as the hon. Minister of Finance has repeatedly reminded us. We can only do so much with the current economy.  Therefore, the PF Government should be proud that it found something that it has to complete. Mr Speaker, I recall that when the housing units in Sinda, Chipata, Ndola and Kamfinsa or Nyimba were being commissioned, it was not mentioned that the programme was continued when the PF came into Government, and that it was just commissioning the housing units. It was depicted in a manner like, “Look what we have done.” How could you build those houses in three months? 


Dr Chituwo: It is not possible. All I am saying is that we should give due acknowledgement where efforts have been made. If something has been left out, the PF Government should know that there were plans to do it and should, therefore, complete it. Again, it is just a reminder that we are definitely not on the same boat, but we are in the same country.

Mr Speaker, I was happy to note that the President anchored the developments in the SNDP and the Vision 2030. These are national policies that have been collected over time through the engagement of various stakeholders in the country. Therefore, when another Government comes in, surely, it can only modify its manifesto to fit into the national policies. As long as the focus is to improve the livelihood of our people, there will be no quarrel. However, if it claims that it is inventing another policy, I think, that is not correct.

Mr Speaker, corruption is a real cancer. I debated the acclaimed re-introduction of the Abuse of Authority of Office Clause into the Anti-Corruption Commission Act on the Floor of this House. I indicated that we saw that this clause would be provided for in other pieces of legislation, and that there was no quarrel about it. However, it appears that the mere existence of this clause in other pieces of legislation was not good enough. I think, with time, we shall see whether this law will apply not only to the former Government, but also to everybody. When this Government is out of office, I think it will have to look out. The PF may feel safe now because they are in Government, but the law is blind. The Opposition is ready to work with the Government on condition that it recognises that there is a wealth of experience on this side.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Chituwo: When this wealth of experience and wisdom is added to the Government side, we will be able to quickly take our country to greater heights. In this regard, Mr Speaker, I make an appeal, again, that we work together, not ridicule one another, and not get offended when we are asked difficult questions. I recall that your predecessor used to say that when questions are asked, there should be an element of anticipation of follow-up questions.

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Dr Chituwo: Surely, that is not very difficult. Do you find time, as hon. Ministers, to sit down with your technocrats and grill them on the answers they give you? Do you ask them whether they have looked at different aspects of the answer they provide you so that they realise that you are not just going to read the answer, but that you are truly in charge?

Mr Speaker, with these very few words, I would like to thank you for this time that you offered me. 

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Mr Speaker, thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to debate this Motion. 

Mr Speaker, I was not in the House at the time the President made his speech. Nevertheless, I was able to follow it via radio, and I had the chance to read the entire speech when I came back.

Mr Speaker, let me say that I have followed Presidents’ speeches for many years. To start with, I notice that it has become a tradition that hon. Members of Parliament, especially those from the Opposition, give a summary of the character of the speech presented by the President. For example, I remember that Hon. Mukanga said President Banda’s Speech was, “an ollow speech”, meaning ‘hollow’.


Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I also remember that His Honour the Vice-President said that the speeches that the Presidents deliver are prepared by various ministries and departments and are, ultimately, joined and, because of that, he called President Banda’s Speech a salaula speech.


Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I do not think I will deny myself the opportunity …


Dr Musokotwane: … to summarise or give character to the speech we heard.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: I will not make an invention. I will use something that is already available. Mr Speaker, since this speech was prepared by people in different ministries, and following His Honour the Vice-President’s logic, therefore, President Sata’s Speech is also a salaula speech.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I will say that this speech is, obviously, going to be remembered for many years in history as one of the most entertaining. I think that when people look back, they will not see a speech that created as much laughter as this one. I think the key point that my colleagues from both sides have said is that it is important that, at this time of the year, the President outlines his vision for the country, his priorities and programmes, among others. When you are head of the Government, you are not always told the truth, because people are, sometimes, scared of losing their jobs, hence their not telling the truth. I believe that it is our responsibility, as Opposition, to tell the President what his staff, sometimes, are scared of telling him because we are the ones who mingle with the public.

Mr Speaker, on that premise, let me try and summarise some of the key issues that we hear on mini buses, buses, in bars and at funerals. What are the key concerns of the public?

Mr Speaker, I notice that when His Honour the Vice-President …


Mr Speaker: Order!{mospagebreak}

Hon. Member for Liuwa, I will deal with those issues. Please, let us give the hon. Member an opportunity to make his submission without distraction. You can see that he has already been distracted.


Dr Musokotwane: Well, I was ready for that, but I will take your advice, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, the first issue that we hear members of the public complain or express concern about is the Constitution. The Government promised that it was going to have a people-driven Constitution within ninety days. It also said that this Constitution was going to focus on some of the key areas about which the public have expressed concern. For example, the public have always expressed concern about the fifty per cent plus one majority win in terms of voting for the next presidency and the need to have a running mate.

Sir, the complaint that we have is that these issues were not properly articulated. We did not hear the President commit himself to most of these issues that have been of concern over the years. Therefore, it can be said that he lost an opportunity, and I hope that, at some point, the President will come out and state clearly that he is on the side of the people.

Mr Speaker, the second issue that is being talked about is the political violence. People are stunned, amazed and disappointed that the PF cadres are allowed to commit political violence against their competitors.

Sir, at the requiem mass of the late former Vice-President, Mr George Kunda, SC., there was some noise between the PF and the MMD cadres. His Excellency the President immediately instructed the Inspector-General of Police to go out and sort them out. However, the PF are now disappointed that its own cadres, in full view of the police, are actually physically abusing people and that the President has not come out strongly to speak against their actions.

Mr Speaker, what we expected the President to say in this House was to bluntly tell the Inspector-General of Police that he supports her, and that she should make sure that he brings peace to our country. That is what we expected to hear, but he was silent on that matter.

Sir, we are also appalled by the political intolerance that we are seeing. We remember vividly how President Sata, as a member of the Opposition, would go to Kanyama, which was flooded then, in his boots and, of course, with a boat, taking full advantage of the situation for political gain. 

Mr Speaker, today, when a political leader goes to a college to inspect it, the police stops him. Today, when a political leader goes to the market to interact with the people, he is stopped by the police. Where is this country going?

Sir, some of the people are asking whether, if the PF loses elections in 2016, it will voluntarily surrender power, as the United National Independence Party (UNIP) and the MMD did.


Dr Musokotwane: The peace of this country depends on the civility of all of us obeying the laws.


Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, the fourth concern that the people are expressing is unity. Last year, I said we should unite this country. People fought for the Independence of this country, Zambia, from all parts of the country. 

Sir, last year, I spoke about the fact that the Cabinet was heavily skewed in favour of friends, relatives and provincial mates of the President. The moment I said that, later on, some of the colleagues from the Government side quietly came and said, “well-spoken.”


Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear! Tell us!

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I have noticed that there have been a few feeble attempts to balance the Cabinet appointments throughout the country. This is very serious. We have seen a few more hon. Cabinet Ministers from Luapula who voted overwhelmingly for the PF. They were ignored when it came to sharing ministerial positions. However, we have seen hon. Members from Luapula appointed Deputy Ministers, and this is good.

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Dr Musokotwane: However, this is not enough to hold the country together. The President talks about bringing the country together, but only in the limited sense of poaching the MMD Members. If we are going to have a united country, we should see appointments of people from across the country to, for example, permanent secretary or diplomatic positions. I think you will agree with me on that point.

Mr Speaker, if Muchinga or the Northern Province was to be invaded by foreigners, I can assure you that soldiers from Kalabo, Chavuma, and Kasempa would stand with their brothers and sisters to defend it. Therefore, if that is so, in times of trouble, surely, when it comes to sharing benefits, we should also do the same.


Dr Musokotwane: Listen to what the people are saying. Do not lose yourselves. 

Mr Speaker, the other point that the people are concerned about on the economic front is the youths of this country. They overwhelmingly voted for the PF. They are aware that the economy was growing very strongly. They are also aware that the MMD was building hospitals and schools, among others. They are  equally aware of all that. However, the message from the PF went beyond that. The youths were desperate for jobs, and they were told that they were going to be given jobs within ninety days after elections.

Ms Kapata interjected.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!


Mr Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member is still on the Floor. He does not require any assistance, whatsoever.

Can the hon. Member proceed.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, a bit of my time was taken as you were speaking.


Dr Musokotwane: So, the youths were aware about these positive developments, but the message from the PF was very appealing because it dealt with the issues that are of essence to the young people. That is why they voted the PF into power. Now, the question is: Are the jobs being created?

Hon. Government Members: Yes!

Dr Musokotwane: The answer is no. Actually, they are being destroyed.


Dr Musokotwane: People are losing jobs because of the minimum wage issue, and this is happening.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, do we have money in our pockets?

Hon. Opposition Members: No!

Dr Musokotwane: The answer is no. So, what are we seeing happening, then?

Sir, because there is failure on the part of the PF to fulfill the primary and important promises that they made, they are now getting into so-called diversionary tactics. These are intended to divert people’s attention from the real promises that they made to something else. What are these diversions? Claims of things that they think they have done which, in actual fact, have not been done. 

Mr Speaker, an example of these is the high economic growth rate. Our colleagues from the PF were telling the people not to get themselves deluded by mere statistics. They wanted the people to see how much money was actually going to the poor. Today, they are claiming that they are the ones who are at the root of the high economic growth rate, and yet this was done by the MMD. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: Sir, macro-economic stability was achieved by the MMD. The stable exchange rate was achieved by the MMD. The B-rating and Eurobonds were also achieved by the MMD. When it comes to projects, the Pedicle Road, Mutanda/Chavuma Road, Mongu/Kalabo Road are all fruits of the hard work of the MMD …

Hon. Government Members: The Bottom Road!

Dr Musokotwane: The Bottom Road is also a project of the MMD.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!


Dr Musokotwane: The Senanga/Sesheke Road, the Landless Corner/Mumbwa Road, the Chipata/Lundazi Road, the Chipata/Mambwe Road, the Isoka/Muyombe are all projects of the MMD, …


Mr Speaker: Order, order!

Dr Musokotwane: Mbala to Nakonde, MMD; Isoka to Kasama via Mbesuma, MMD; and Formula One: Lusaka Urban, Copperbelt Urban and Kabwe Urban roads were all done by the MMD, not so? 

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, coming to power, the Kariba North Bank expansion, MMD; Victoria Falls rehabilitation and Itezhi-tezhi Power Station, MMD; the transmission line from Itezhi-tezhi to Mumbwa, MMD; Kafue Gorge Lower, MMD; Lusiwasi, MMD; and Lunzua, MMD.


Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, …


Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, the message from the people is for the PF not to claim credit for things that it did not do. Let it focus on the key campaign promises that it made. Do you still hear these colleagues talking about more money in your pockets?

Hon. Opposition Members: No!


Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, they have kept quiet, and yet this was one of their key campaign messages. If you walk around the markets, people will tell you that this is a gong’a Government … 

Hon. Opposition Member: Gong’a!

Dr Musokotwane: … because they are aware of the fact that what it promised is not what it is delivering.

Mr Speaker, in the President’s Speech, there were new promises that were made about development projects. What our colleagues are forgetting is that their credibility is shattered. Credibility refers to the ability of people to believe what you are saying. The people are aware that what you say most of the time is just for the purpose of getting votes, not for implementation.

Hon. Government Member: Question!

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, somebody is saying, ‘Question’. So, let me give an example of one of the promises that were made. 

Sir, The Post newspaper edition of 8th January, 2011, quotes His Excellency the President as having said:

    “There is no honest person who can deny the existence and validity of the Barotseland Agreement. Those with honour and integrity honour valid agreements that they have entered into, whether they still like them or not. The PF Government will honour the Barotseland Agreement without hesitation because we have no problem with it; we see nothing wrong with it. We have always said that we have nothing to fear about the agreement. It is a decent agreement that must be honoured. Only crooks and dictators who want everything to be controlled by them from Lusaka can fear the Barotseland Agreement.”

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!


Dr Musokotwane: This was a promise by His Excellency the President. Each time our colleagues deny the promises they made, the people of Mongu simply collect a tape and play it on the radio.

Sir, yesterday, somebody was denying that the PF promised the nation jobs within ninety days. This tendency of denying things that you have promised is yet another example of how your credibility is being shattered.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, the people are advising the Government to honour its promises.


Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Gwembe, can you leave the hon. Minister of Justice alone.


Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, this Government is made up of different kinds of people. Some are young and vibrant, others are old grandfathers with grey hair while others have high degrees.


Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, the question is: Are these high degrees in deceiving people or serving them? These are the questions that people ask.


Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I think that it was okay for the PF to be ambitious about providing jobs. That is what we wanted. However, now is the time to get things done. You have found an economy that has moved from a poor economy to a middle-income economy. If the Zambian people had given us another chance then, we would be talking about something else.

Hon. Government Member: Question!

Dr Musokotwane: They have given you the chance. You do not have to worry about the debt burden because that was solved. You do not have to worry about foreign exchange shortages because that was resolved and you do not have to worry about an under-performing mine sector because that was also resolved. The Government’s task is a very simple one, and this is to move the economy to higher heights so that we may be like the Mauritians, the Taiwanese and the Singaporeans. If it fails on that, then history will judge it very harshly.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mooya (Moomba): Mr Speaker, as stated by the hon. Member of Parliament for Mumbwa, there is a lot of experience on this side of the House. Many issues have been discussed, but I would like to focus on just two: the Link Zambia 8,000 and the transfer of the Road Development Agency (RDA) to State House.

Sir, I had difficulties figuring out what the Link Zambia 8,000 was about because some newspapers left out the fact that it referred to 8,000 km. So, I added those three phases and found out that the total was 8,201km and realised that the figure must have been rounded off.

Mr Speaker, I note that the President’s Speech was incomplete when it came to the Link Zambia 8,000. This is because he never talked about maintenance and the Axel Load Control Programme. He never talked about the Rural Roads Unit (RRU). To miss out maintenance, in my view, was a huge omission. 

Mr Speaker, this is my third term in the House and all the previous Presidents’ speeches never left out maintenance and the Axel Load Control Programme. I feel that this should have been included in the President’s Speech because there is no point in tarring 8,000 km of road and forgetting about maintaining it. We will end up coming back to the same issues that we had under the UNIP Government. It never concentrated on maintenance and we all know what happened. However, the MMD came and concentrated on maintenance.

Sir, the other issue on the Link Zambia 8,000 is whether the Government has the capacity to do this within five years. I do not think so. 

Mr Speaker, I heard the mover of this Motion talk about the 9,000km of roads that were tarred by UNIP and the MMD. This was done during the last forty-eight years. However, the PF is hoping to tar 8,000km in five years. I am wondering how this is going to be done because the party has only four years remaining. I think, this will not be possible at all. There are many challenges such as lack of funds that delayed the second phase of the Road Sector Investment Programme (ROADSIP II). We were told that, in five years, the Government would invest about K27 trillion. ROADSIP II was a ten-year programme, but we spent about K7 trillion. I think that the PF is overambitious and I do not see it tarring the 8,000 km in the stated period. ROADSIP II was left by the MMD Government, and I feel that the PF Government should have continued building on that. It is not supposed to start changing things, and I am saying so because, under ROADSIP II, we knew exactly where we were heading to. Now we are lost.


Mr Mooya: Mr Speaker, the second issue is about the RDA being moved to State House. We are, slowly, changing the face of the RDA. This institution was our creation. When this House enacted the RDA Act in 2002, I was here. We added the Transport Policy to the Act and there has been a lot of investment. From 1993 to 2011, it is about eighteen years and, after that heavy investment, we are slowly changing the face of the RDA. 

Mr Speaker, there was an article about the establishment of the RDA in the Sunday Post of 23rd September, 2012, in which a friend of mine, a well-known quantity surveyor, complained about the lack of quantity surveyors in the RDA. All these years, we never had them in the RDA and this was not right.  

Sir, in the Times of Zambia dated 1st October, 2012, there was a job advertisement for two quantity surveyors. Within seven days, we are already making changes. I think that it is too soon to start making changes.  

Mr Speaker, there has been a lot of debate, both for and against, on the issue of the RDA being put under State House. Some of us have been here for three terms and have discussed the corruption issue and pointed out where it is. When you look at the construction industry, you will find corruption in the registration of contractors. There could be politicians who would want their companies to be registered even if they do not qualify, and that is what I am talking about. Corruption also exists in the procurement process. This is where we have too much corruption. 

The third issue is that of implementation. Like others have said, what should have been done was to strengthen those three areas, especially the procurement process. Three days ago, I read the Zambia Business and Construction News, which had a lot of good information on the procurement process. On page 3 of this publication, there was a very good article. We cannot have an answer to the problems in the RDA by taking it to State House. The answer does not lie there. The procurement reforms are coming, and I wish that the people who are closer to the President, such as the hon. Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication, could sit down with him and study this matter. Once the appropriate changes are effected, corruption will be minimised. 

Sir, in these reforms, we have a problem with evaluation. The reforms that the Government is calling for will involve the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) and the Drug Enforcement Commission (DEC). The Zambia Public Procurement Authority (ZPPA) will never be involved in the procurement process. It is proposed that they regulate the procurement entities such as the Ministerial Tender Committees (MTC) and Provincial Tender Committees (PTC). I think that, by so doing, we will have a better answer than taking the RDA to State House. There is usually a lot of auditing involved, but who will audit State House? If it is left where it is, it will be easy to audit and follow up on other vices.

Mr Speaker, I am humbly requesting the Government to re-visit this and reverse it. Let us implement these procurement reforms because that is where the answer lies. In Africa, Zambia was a shining example, and we were pioneers when it came to the Road Maintenance Initiative (RMI). In its early stages, we will still remember that the National Roads Board (NRB), under Mr Jalla and Mr Grandanada, travelled all over the world lecturing and sharing with the others how we succeeded. We should, therefore, continue along those lines.

Mr Speaker, I will still say that the answer lies in the implementation of the procurement reforms and not taking it to State House.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Mr Speaker, I thank you for according me this opportunity to contribute to the debate on the address of this House by His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Micheal Chilufya Sata.

Mr Speaker, this is the second speech that I have listened to by His Excellency the President. The speech that he delivered last year was a learning aid and was meant to open the route for the PF Government on how to run this country. There was also an emphasis on pro-poor programmes. I come from a poor area so I was very hopeful that there was now a Government which would take care of the poor people in the Western Province.

Mr Speaker, the President’s Address truly reflected many issues. However, I am not convinced because, being human, I believe that words alone can never feed people. All human beings have the capacity to communicate to each other, but this communication through words alone cannot produce anything. What needs to be done is the transformation of the words into activities. This transformation usually requires the whole body to work together and produce an activity which will be as a result of the words produced by the person.

Mr Speaker, we all know that education is the key to success, and yet if there is no implementation, this education cannot be the key. You cannot tell the people in Kalabo that education is the key to success when there is no school at Nyahonga or a teacher at Malala. 


Mr Miyutu: We do not have a Government that is transforming its words into implementation. Surely, how can you say there is free education only by word of mouth, when there are no books supplied?


Mr Miyutu: The roof of a school in a poor community known as Lunje was blown off and nothing was done about it. It is now one year since that happened. So, how can you say that education is the key to success? For instance, when a village headman makes a statement, all the subjects believe that whatever has been said will be implemented. If the headman relaxes and does not make an effort to implement the things he talked about, then his subjects will also relax and nothing will be implemented. From 1964, different governments have been in power. However, it is sad to note that the rural areas have continued to degrade while the Government is progressing in terms of positions. 

Mr Speaker, in last year’s Budget, it was stated that 2,000 classrooms would be constructed but, to date, we are told that we are almost 75 per cent through the Budget. Will the remaining 25 per cent complete the construction of these classrooms in the next two months or is magic going to be used to do this?


Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, I believed in the saying ‘donchi kubeba’ initiated by the PF Government, but is seems we are becoming very sinful to the people of Zambia. How can a Government adopt a saying of ‘donchi kubeba’ for its own subjects?


Mr Mwila: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order. Is the hon. Member of Parliament in order to mention the saying ‘donchi kubeba’ without interpreting what it means?

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member, this term is used differently by different parties. So, in order to ensure that we are on the same wavelength, I will strongly urge you to restrict yourself to the official language. I am sure you can still make the same point without misleading anybody.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, ‘donchi kubeba’ means do not tell them the truth.


Mr Miyutu: This is what ‘donchi kubeba’ means.

Hon. Opposition Member: Don’t tell them the truth!

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, in his speech, the President talks about universities. The speech highlights universities, but these universities are only one sided. It is forty-eight years since Independence and the Western, North-Western, Southern and Eastern provinces still have no universities. This Government says that it will construct a university in each province of Zambia, and yet it has not even started such projects in the provinces I have mentioned. How true is it then that these universities will be there after five years?


Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, personally, I do not believe it can be done because to upgrade Lubwa and Mulakupikwa universities, the hon. Minister was given eighteen months to complete the project. There are only eight months left and these universities are not complete. If, therefore, we cannot manage to build two universities in eighteen months, how can we manage to build ten in five years? It is like these statements are being given just to make us go to sleep. 


Hon. Opposition Member: Mahata!

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, the President also talked about unity. Unity begins with the body. All the organs of the body are united. The mouth will chew and swallow.


Mr Miyutu:  The stomach will receive and grind and the blood will transmit the food to all parts of the body and the energy will go round and then the legs will move.


Mr Miyutu: This is how the body co-ordinates. When we talk about unity we should bear in mind how the body works. 

Mr Speaker, at one time I was on the entourage of the president for the UPND. I was very shocked and disappointed and embarrassed when he was not accorded an opportunity to hold a meeting. In 1964, we won our freedom economically, politically, spiritually, morally and spiritually.


Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, after forty-eight years of Independence, we cannot have a Government looking at an hon. opposition Member as an opponent or enemy. Where, in the world, can you find a government turning its own citizens into enemies? 

Hon. Opposition Members: Zambia!

 Mr Miyutu: Whoever the hon. Minister of Home Affairs is, must realise that we are in Zambia and there is only one Zambia.  There is no other Zambia. This is all we have and we have to enjoy our human dignity as well as our Zambian citizenship. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Miyutu: How can people who simply want to meet and communicate be denied the opportunity?  You stopped us from having a public meeting.  Where and when are we going to be free? 

I have a request …

Mr Muntanga: Me!

Mr Miyutu: … to the Government to refrain from such acts if they want unity as the President stated. 

Hon. UPND Member: From us!

Mr Miyutu: We really want to be united. This country has been peaceful and united. It is peaceful now because meetings were allowed in the past. 

Mr Muntanga: But not anymore! 

Mr Miyutu: How do you expect us to be united when you are denying us permits to hold meetings just for discussions? It will be like I said earlier, “don’t tell them the truth”.


Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, after forty-eight years of Independence, Kalabo still has no clean water. Recently, typhoid broke out in the district and I know that come November, with the onset of the rains, there will be another outbreak because the water we are using is straight from the river since the water pump for the Western Water and Sewerage Company is not running due to the low voltage. The pump is not doing its job so that there is tap water. We have to go to the river to get water because the taps are dry. When you turn on a tap, only air comes out. 


Mr Miyutu: I do not even know what to tell my people in the constituency anymore. When I went there in January, I told them that the Government would sink boreholes. I really hoped they would. When I go back this time, I do not know what I will tell them. This is October and not a single borehole has been sunk in the whole district. We were told that 3,000 boreholes would be sunk. When will they be sunk? Maybe, these boreholes have been sunk in Lusaka because it seems everything goes to Lusaka. The people in rural areas are only considered when there are elections. Those 3,000 boreholes should have covered the rural areas, including Kalabo.  Maybe, they have been sunk in Lukulu West. 


Mr Miyutu: To me, this is a sign of failure. 

Mr Speaker, when we are only active in words without implementing what we say, we miss the point. 

Sir, the President talked about the gap between urban areas such as Lusaka and rural areas like Kalabo. 


Mr Miyutu: It is like we have people who are increasing this gap so that the people in the rural areas continue to live in hardship. 

Mr Speaker, I went to a certain urban clinic in Ng’ombe and found a doctor. I was shocked because in Kalabo we do not see doctors in a clinic. 


Mr Miyutu:  I asked myself whether the people in Ng’ombe are special in terms of make. Are they like the people of Kalabo? Why is it that rural clinics do not have doctors or clinical officers? 


Mr Miyutu: If you go to Sihole, you will only find classified daily employees (CDEs). There is no trained staff. 

Hon. UPND Member: Masholi!


Mr Miyutu: When we give speeches, we must look at how they will affect or better someone’s life. We must not give speeches to cover time. There are many lives lost in Kalabo because we have very few clinics. We were told that 650 clinics would be constructed throughout the country. I was excited about this. Today, I am disappointed because not even one clinic has been constructed. I do not know when the 650 clinics will be constructed. Already, this is October, and yet these clinics were mentioned last year. When are we going to do this? We need the clinics or even just health posts. We are not interested in mobile clinics. Just give us health posts … 


Mr Miyutu: … with six-month trained officers. It will be fair. 


Mr Miyutu: You can deny us doctors if you want but, please, give us the six-month trained officers. 


Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, I do not even see us getting the six-month trained officers. 


Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, one thing that the hon. Members of the PF Government must take note of, as they are sitting there, is that the Civil Service in this country is not working on the ground. I know that they might point fingers of blame at the Opposition, but we will not bear the blame. However, what I have observed is that the Civil Service is not complementing the Government’s efforts because it has no fear. 

For example, if you go to a school, you will find teachers are drunk during working hours. If you go to a clinic and if, by chance, that clinic has a clinical officer, he/she will not attend to patients. I am saying so because I witnessed a situation in February, this year, where a male nurse failed to attend to pregnant women until I intervened. So, even when the President is saying that we need accelerated health services out there, it is the opposite because what he is saying is not done.


Mr Miyutu: Dr Kasonde knows what I am talking about.


Mr Miyutu: I have to debate, and I do not tell lies. So, when I am saying that the services …

Mr Speaker: I am sure you are still addressing the Speaker.

Mr Miyutu: Thank you, Mr Speaker.

The Civil Service is not helping this country to develop. Therefore, whatever problems we are facing, at the moment, somehow, the Civil Service has also contributed to them.

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, the RDA constructed three bridges in Kalabo but, if it was not pushed to do so, it would not have constructed the bridges. Money was available, but the workers were just sitting in their offices. They did not want to work.

In short, Mr Speaker, I wish to say that the Executive of this Government must take up the challenge of taking the word of the President seriously and make the Civil Service accountable to the people. It must realise that it is working for the people of Zambia.

With these few words, Mr Speaker, I thank you.


Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao (Senga Hill): Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute to this lively debate. I think the tone was set by the President, himself, and I am glad that you have given me this opportunity to debate.

Sir, I am going to confine myself to a few issues in the sense that many issues have been well debated. I will take the debates of Hon. Dr Situmbeko Musokotwane, Hon. Dr Chituwo and Hon. Victoria Kalima as my own. This is because they really hit the nail on its head.

Mr Musukwa: What about Kalabo!

Mr Simbao: I also take the hon. Member of Parliament for Kalabo’s debate as my own. 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear! Kalabo!

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, the President touched on a number of issues that, in my view, need to be very well understood. I hope and pray that when the hon. Minister of Finance comes to deliver his Budget Speech, he will touch on some of these issues because I feel that justice has not been done going by the manner in which the speech was presented. The President left many of us unsure of what he was talking about.

I also noted that there are some cardinal issues he ignored in the speech. He decided not to talk about them, hence I want to address some of them.

I would like to start with the issue of unemployment. The printed speech, the one that he did not read, is talking about creating 1 million jobs in five years. That is very good. I must hasten to say, Mr Speaker, that the greatest desire of any government is to create jobs. The former Government’s desire was also to create jobs. Likewise, the greatest desire of the other government in waiting, which is the UPND, …

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: … is to create jobs. However, we, the MMD, were creating jobs.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: Therefore, this statement that the PF Government is going to create 1 million jobs is nothing new nor is it something to be very excited about. For this reason, I demand that the hon. Minister concerned gives us the stratum of these jobs. The jobs we are talking about here are not farm jobs. If you talk about farm jobs, the MMD created 1 million of such jobs. 

The Vice-President (Dr Scott): Where? When?


Mr Simbao: His Honour the Vice-President …

Mr Speaker: Let us have order!

Mr Simbao: Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Muntanga: Mukuwa!

Mr Simbao: I, therefore, would like to say that I am shocked to hear this statement. Maybe, this is why the President dodged this issue.

Sir, when the PF Government came into power, it promised to create 5 million people jobs within ninety days. Five million people!

Mr Mbulakulima: Emphasise, mwana!

Mr Simbao: I believe we all have this book entitled Living Conditions Monitoring Survey Report, 2006/2010 which we can refer to.

At the time we were going for the elections in 2011, there were 5 million plus people looking for employment but, today, this Government is only willing to provide 1 million jobs in five years. I am saying that, come 2016, if the 4 million plus people will not be given jobs, they will vote this Government out.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Simbao: That is what the 5 million plus people did to us. In fact, the 4 million plus people will be more in 2016 because the figure I am referring to is for 2010. This Government should be prepared to leave office ...

Hon. MMD Member: Yes!

Mr Simbao: … unless it creates more jobs than the 1 million jobs it is talking about. I am just stating the facts here. What is mentioned in the President’s Speech is 1 million but, in this book, there are 5 million without jobs. These 5 million people listened to the PF that told them that they shall be given jobs. It was even more exciting that this was going to be done in ninety days. However, they are no asking us to wait. Yes, one year is gone and we are still waiting. We shall keep waiting for four, but we should be mindful that the 4 million plus people are listening.

This book says the 760, 000 people looking for employment are in Lusaka and 723,000 on the Copperbelt. If you make a simple mathematical calculation by sharing the 1 million jobs between Lusaka and the Copperbelt, then that is it. What will happen to the people in my constituency? They will not even have a single opportunity of getting a job.

Hon. Government Member interjected.


Mr Simbao: Let me tell you that we have a lot of youths without jobs who will vote wisely in 2016. 

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: All the people who were hopeful of getting jobs have now heard for themselves. They have to fight for the few jobs that are advertised, as we saw a few months ago. They have to fight for them now that they know that there are only 1 million jobs against 5 million of them. 

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1815 hours until 1830 hours.

[Mr Speaker in the Chair]

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, before business was suspended, I was saying that I wonder …

Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, are the hon. Government Members in order not to be present in the House, when the issues that are being raised on the Floor of this House are meant for them to attend to and respond?

Hon. Government Members: We are here.

Mr Speaker: It is certainly not in order. I think I have made a ruling on this subject in the past. I mentioned that it is inappropriate for the Speaker to be in the Chair when a sizable number of hon. Members of Parliament are still outside the Chamber. It does not inure to the decorum and dignity of the House. I hope that the Government Chief Whip, I repeat, the Government Chief Whip, will take serious note of this.

I think we are a very disciplined House and earnest for that matter. Therefore, I expect that earnest to be reflected in the manner we attend to our business. The House should conduct its business with promptitude. We are only allowed a fifteen minute break, and even your return here, is preceded by the ringing of the bell. In case you are not marking your time, certainly you can heed the bell. Therefore, I hope I will not have to make another ruling on this subject and unfortunate state of affairs. 

The hon. Member may continue.

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, I would be very comfortable, if it were possible for whichever ministry is responsible, be it the Ministry of Labour, to give us employment figures every month and tell us in which sectors people have been employed because we deserve to know that.

Sir, I would also be very comfortable if I were given the statistics for the last one year on how many people have been employed. This is because, like you guided, what we see is just what we read in the newspapers, and what has been reported so far has been very misleading in a way.

Mr Kambwili: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order. Is the hon. Member on the Floor in order not to be consistent on this issue? I say so because in the previous Parliament, we brought a Private Member’s Motion to compel the Government to give us employment statistics, and he was part of that Government which shot the Motion down. Is he in order, therefore, to be so inconsistent as to ask our Government to do what he refused to do? I need your serious ruling.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, my ruling on this point of order is that, indeed, such a Motion may have been brought in the past, and it is also an established practice that hon. Members should be consistent in the manner in which they conduct themselves. I think consistency, in itself, comports with the whole idea of being honourable.

It is not possible for me to determine, in this particular case, the disposition of this particular hon. Member to that Motion. I think it would be unfair for me to rule him out of order in the absence of any evidence of how he, himself, as an individual, was disposed to that particular Motion.

The hon. Minister of Youth and Sport may be correct that the Government of the day, then, was not favourably disposed to the Motion, but I cannot take a blanket position and rule this particular hon. Member out of order. In short, I have no evidence on which I can say that this hon. Member is inconsistent in his conduct. That is my ruling.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, the reasons for which the MMD was removed from power, I believe, will be the ones for which the PF will leave power. This is because when you bring up good ideas and somebody is quick to shoot them down, the people are with me and not with the people who are shooting down good ideas. These people want to know the levels of employment in the country. This is one of the promises the PF made to the people of Zambia. Therefore, it is only right that it be transparent and tells the people the exact number of people who have been given jobs.

Sir, we just want to know how the PF Government will create these 1 million jobs. It is most likely that they will not even employ 100,000 people. We just want to know the figure so that after five years, we can remind them of the promise they made of creating 1 million jobs when there are still 5 million people without jobs. What is there to hide?

The Deputy Minister of Home Affairs (Mr E. C. Lungu): You will be shocked.

Mr Simbao: There is nothing to shock anyone. Just show us the statistics. If you employ 2 million or 5 million people, we will applaud you but, if you employ none, we will tell you that you have failed. It is as simple as that.

Dr Chituwo: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, I thank you for according me this opportunity to raise this point of order. Is the hon. Minister of Youth and Sport in order to ignore His Excellency the President’s directive, which was given in his address to this House, on the establishment of a labour exchange so that there is employment?

Mr Speaker: The hon. Minister of Youth and Sport may be speaking whilst he is seated, contrary, of course, to what I have repeatedly counselled against. He is certainly not on the Floor of the House to warrant the point of order that has been raised. So, the point of order, itself, is inappropriate because the hon. Member is not on the Floor. 

May I appeal to the colleagues on my right to simply take notes as the hon. Members debate. I know these issues tend to be emotive but, as you know, the tradition is that you are given an opportunity to respond to the issues raised. That is the best you can do. You do not lose anything by doing so. The people are listening and sitting in judgment. Give them an appropriate opportunity to assess both the left and right fairly, as democracy demands.

The tendency of these running commentaries and attempts to enter into a dialogue is to distract the House from its business. I have said before that this Chair would like to take a back seat, but I am constantly dragged into the debates. We are wasting time and, I mean, literally, wasting time. So, if an hon. Member is debating, as much as it might be emotive, let us practice some self-discipline so that we can truly earn our titles of being honourable.

The hon. Member may continue.

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, I was not surprised that the President did not bother to refer to any figures on employment. It is either he wanted the few jobs available to be given only to a very few, and the Zambian people know who they are, or he did not just believe the source of this information. So, I would like to remind the Government that it has the very big task of creating the one million jobs.

Mr Speaker, our economy is said to be growing at more than 7 per cent and will reach 8 per cent per annum. I want to say two things about this. First of all, I do not see a conducive environment for this kind of growth. There are many factors that contribute to economic growth and some of them are in the negative currently. One of them is that of corruption. There are very few countries that record economic growth when there is corruption. The information that we are getting from the newspapers about corruption in the Government might be true. We have heard that some people are trying to outdo each other by claiming that they know more about those accusing them of being corrupt than they know about them. This is not going to help us. 

There is no way anyone will bring their money here when they know this money might just end up in a few people’s pockets. It might not be true that these things are happening, but there is a strong perception that there are some corrupt elements in the Government. There is no way our economy will grow amid such rumours. There is no country that has had economic growth when there is a lot of corruption. The President, like told us when he sat there, is a very learned person with a degree. He has an idea of the economy growing, but this is because of the confidence that the MMD left behind. That is why investors are still targeting Zambia. However, I can assure you that we will be heading towards negative growth if the issues that are now coming out do not stop. No one will come to this country to invest. So, I would like to remind the Government that the lure of money is very nice. However, if you think of the 13 million people in this country, and there are only 158 of us here, we do not deserve any kwacha more than what we get. What is happening currently, whereby people want to scramble for the money that, apparently, they have just found, is the wrong way to go for the whole country. The investors will run way from us and there will be nothing to grow our economy.

Mr Speaker, the other negative thing that I want to point out is that of borrowing. It is very difficult to achieve economic growth when you begin to borrow heavily. It bothers me how we ended up getting $750 million when we went to ask for $500 million. Are we so greedy that we plan for $500 million but, when we are shown $750 million, we get it all? Did we plan for the extra money?

Mr Chikwanda interjected.

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, I am asking this because the hon. Minister of Finance will come and explain these things. I am not saying it to make him look bad or whatever. He will give an explanation.

Mr Speaker: Just concentrate on your debate.

Mr Simbao: The hon. Minister was answering. We planned for $500 million. How, just …

Mr Simbao: How did we end up scooping US$750 million? What the people who went there told us is that, when they were going to borrow this money, they were going to look for US$500 million. They did not tell us that, if they found US$11 million more, they would increase the amount. 

Mr Speaker, we are in this together. When it comes to paying this debt, we shall pay it back together. So, we need to be somehow involved. Of course, it cannot be in the manner that hon. Members of the Executive are involved because, for instance, I cannot go to where Hon. Sampa went. However, I can, at least, know that, where my hon. Minister has gone, he has room to do this and that. What I am saying is that you do not get economic growth if you start borrowing heavily because you become a slave of debt. I hope that this US$750 million that we have got will not go into these corruption issues and that will be used well. 

Further, after using this money, do we have an alternative plan for maintaining whatever we are going to use this money on? If we have this plan, where are we going to get the money from? Is it from another bond or are we going to generate our own money? If it is another bond, the debt will soon escalate to US$7 billion or US$10 billion. There will be no economic growth under such circumstances. So, when the hon. Minister comes to respond, I would like him to explain how we shall maintain the facilities that this US$750 million will be used on because that is very important.

Mr Speaker, I do not know if we have a system for determining the exchange rate. When we came up with an SI to ban the use of foreign currencies in all internal transactions, the exchange rate went down and a statement was issued, here, that we would maintain it at about K4,800 per US Dollar or there about. However, we now see it creeping upwards. 

The exchange rate, in reality, is controlled by currency traders. Do we know who our currency traders are and what their modus operandi is? How is our kwacha behaving offshore? Who is controlling our reserves? Is it ourselves or somebody else? These are the things we have to consider when looking at the exchange rate. If we do not have answers to these questions, we will keep intervening until we exhaust all the money we have. Unless we resolve these issues, we will not manage to control the exchange rate for foreign currencies against the kwacha. 

Sir, the foreign exchange rate is going up. I know that, soon, we shall intervene and it will come down. However, it will go up again because we are not dealing with the actual people who are controlling these things. So, we need the hon. Minister to tell us how he is going to maintain a low exchange rate because it is one of the causes of problems in economic growth. If we do not have a proper exchange rate; one controlled by demand and supply, our economy will not record any growth.

Sir, the President was very emphatic on the issue of answering questions asked in this House. When we ask questions here, people may think that they are answering us, in the Opposition. However, that is not the case. For example, when we ask why nurses, who were promised a 100 per cent salary increment, did not get it, the nurses out there want to know the reason because they do not have the opportunity to ask this question. They want to know what happened. Somebody was very good to them but, all of sudden, has become bad. What happened? They want a proper answer as to why, after they have been promised 100 per cent, they never got it. It is not me who wants to know why because I am not a nurse and will never be one. So, when we ask these questions, it is on behalf of the people out there. However, when hon. Members are answering and you look at their demeanour and arrogance, it is like they are answering us, on this side. That is not right. When we speak, it is on behalf of the people out there and many of them listen in. When they listen to what I speak like I am doing currently, I speak more sense, according to them, than the other side because I tend to bring their feelings to the House.

Mr Kambwili: Question!


Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, I have been on the other side before. So, I know what I am talking about. When I stand here, I speak on behalf of the people. The Executive has a Government to protect because there are, in most cases, problems, but the Opposition brings out the feelings that people are too scared to express. I am protected when I speak here. For instance, who negotiated the 15 per cent salary increment for the police which has proved worthless to the extent that they have now become self-confessed fellows as corrupt officers.                

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali (Senanga): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to contribute to the debate on the President’s Speech.

Mr Speaker, I also thank Hon. Simbao who has just finished deliberating on the same. Let me also congratulate one of the hon. Members on taking the very important step of being circumcised. I will not mention his name. Suffice it to say that it is a good thing. 

Mr Speaker: Order!

I am glad that you have respected the right to privacy.

You may continue.

Mr Mufalali: Sure, Sir.


Mr Mufalali: He was on radio. So, he went public.


Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, the President referred to several issues in his speech. Among them was the need for hon. Members of Parliament to debate freely. He talked of violence, taking hon. Ministers to task on their failures, the Public Order Act, governance, transparency, accountability and advancing democracy. 

Mr Speaker, many hon. Members have already talked about violence. I have been a National Youth Chairperson for the UPND, was in Mufumbwe and I am still the National Youth Chairperson. So, I have an insight into what the police are capable of doing, like the misuse of the police to propagate violence. I saw the violence that took place when I was at the funeral of the late First Lady, Mrs Betty Kaunda, at the Cathedral of the Holy Cross. In the presence of the police, cadres were able to punch anyone. It is a bad thing to use the police when your youths are attacking people. The President talked about protecting the hon. Members. I was at the Central Police Station in Lusaka when we were tear-gassed together with the President of the UPND, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, the Republican President in waiting.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, the President indicated to this House that he would protect hon. Members, regardless of the party they belonged to. I think that it is true that we need protection. The police, at times, tend to behave unprofessionally. We saw how they dragged Hon. Kakoma right at the front of the police station. That is not right in a democratic state.

Mr Speaker, talking about taking hon. Ministers to task, as suggested by the President, that we are going to do. We have seen how hon. Ministers have been answering questions. Barely five days after the President indicated the need for hon. Ministers to answer in a rightful manner, we heard what happened on the issue of research. We were informed that there is no need to research if you know something. It is not right. You can research on an issue as long as you bring facts. Knowledge has no end and, if you have to work with facts, you have to research. You cannot say that there is no need to research because you know. Definitely, this was wrong. Research is very important. The Bible says, “My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge”.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, I am sure, you can bring yourself to order. It is not acceptable practice for you to make that reference.

You can continue.

Mr Mufalali: Thank you, Mr Speaker. One of the wisest men in the olden days wrote, and I quote: “My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: “... and because they have rejected knowledge, I will spit them.”


Mr Mufalali: When people reject knowledge, then you have nothing to do with them because they have refused to be directed. Sometimes, we tend to embarrass ourselves. The Executive is part of the Opposition. When they refuse knowledge, we feel ashamed because we are part of the governance system. Once, I was watching one credible man on television trying to deal with an issue on the economic affairs of the State in the one year under the PF Government. With all due respect, because they refuse to research, it was embarrassing because he was literally struggling to explain. It is important for the Executive to learn to share and give those with insight into economic issues to share on television, rather than having less-informed people going on television and embarrassing themselves like that. It is not right because everyone is watching. This person who was on television failed to explain what the multi-facility economic zones (MFEZs) is. Instead, he was asking the journalist what it was.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Mufalali: It is not right. It is important to research so that you understand issues fully.

Mr Speaker, hon. Members have been informed, on the Floor of this House, that motor vehicle registration is done in all districts, and yet it is only done in Livingstone, Lusaka and on the Copperbelt. The Road Traffic and Safety Agency (RTSA) came here and informed us where the registration of motor vehicles is done. The problem is that some of the information is not verified. So, I think that it is only right to go by the guidance that we are given, rather than to be arrogant when answering questions.

Mr Speaker, the President talked about the issue of governance, transparency, accountability and advancing democracy.  These are very serious issues. The founder of the United States America (USA) Steel Corporation, Mr Judge Elbert Henry Gary, wrote the so-called Nine Gary Principles. He said, “I believe in publicity; the surest and wisest of all regulation is public opinion.”

Mr Speaker, when it comes to governance, the people are the right ones to give an opinion. The PF Government needs to be guided on this issue. What has transpired in regard to this concern is not good for democracy. 

Under the Stalins and Mussolinis of this world, there were establishments they used to call politiebureaus. That was the situation the apparatus of a party was raised above the Government. That does not obtain in our democracy. Similarly, the compulsory military training of youths does not obtain in a democratic state. So, the politiebureaus, which the PF is trying to build by recognising the political party hierarchy above the Government, are illegal. You cannot recognise the Secretary-General of a political party. In Zambia, a Secretary-General of a political party is below a Government. 

Hon. UPND Member: He is nothing. 

Mr Mufalali: He is nothing. In our democracy, there are no politiebureaus. They do not exist. Those existed in the times of dictators or in the 1918s and 1930s. If we have to uphold and advance democracy, we have to ensure that it is followed to the letter. We do not have to recognise politiebureaus. 

Mr Speaker, the PF promised employment to the youth, but have failed them. Up to now, the K30 billion which they promised to give them has not been released. 

Mr Speaker, among the promises the PF Government made was the restoration of the Barotseland Agreement.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Member: Bulela!

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, they are trying to wish this issue away. You shall not wish it away. It shall always come before you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: Unfortunately, for this Government, when it comes to that agreement, it condemned the MMD Government when it arrested people. Now, it is the one which is arresting even those who are tearing papers and denying them bail and transferring them from Mongu to Kaoma. We went there on Monday to make an appointment but, on Wednesday, they even refused us to visit the people who are in detention.

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order. I have been struggling to follow the hon. Member debating. Is he in order to make reference to cases which are under investigation and before the courts of law which are under an independent arm of the Government? Is he in order to digress from the President’s Speech and start debating cases that are under investigation? 

I need your serious ruling, Sir.

Mr Speaker: It is not clear to me what these cases might be. Maybe, I am not following the current affairs. However, just in case …


Mr Speaker: … these cases are before the courts of law, I would urge the hon. Member to bear that in mind. I know that in the President’s Speech, there are issues of governance. Governance issues, in their very nature, are very broad and I do not think I would want to be whipping hon. Members to be towing a particular line in that debate. I think, I will give the liberty to hon. Members to generally canvass issues relating to governance.

The hon. Member may continue.

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, we must not forget that our rights and interests should be subservient to public welfare. The rights and interests of the individual must always give way to those of the public. 

Mr Speaker, leaders should read and understand what power is. It is due to the lack of  understanding of power that we see some hon. Ministers come into the House and want to speak the same day without knowing what was obtaining. It is failure to understand power. 

Mr Speaker, application of the law in this land comes under governance. We have seen how the law has been misapplied in many areas. Bias is so vivid. The other day, the hon. Minister of Defence talked about some Generals planning to overthrow the Government. That was alarming. He needed to be brought to book. The hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry talked about the printing of K3.1 trillion, but he has not been visited by the law, and yet the day that the President delivered his speech here, we heard the Inspector-General of Police, in the precincts of this Assembly, give a statement that all those who give alarming statements must be arrested. She is leaving some of the culprits who are in this House and are, actually, supposed to be visited by the law.

Mr Speaker, let me talk about education. Education in Senanga is supposed to be the key issue, as the President indicated. However, what we are seeing in Senanga is something that has existed for the past forty-eight years and there has not been a remedy to it. Teachers in Senanga still walk for seven days to get to their schools. They still walk for eight, fourteen and, sometimes, twenty-eight hours to get to their schools. The President talked about giving quality education, but without infrastructure in terms of roads, the issue of giving education to all, as indicated by the President, might not exist or come to fruition. 

Mr Speaker, in many of the schools in Senanga, the parameters given by the hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Childhood Education that remote and rural is 30 to 70-plus km do not obtain there. The moment you leave Senanga, you are subjected to walking. Three to 5 km out of Senanga and you are already in the remote parts. So, the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Childhood Education should reconsider the allowances that it gives to teachers in terms of rural and remote allowances. Much of that place is remote because there is no transportation in that area. It is very important that the ministry reconsiders the allowances.

Mr Speaker, finally, the President talked about one more issue which I need to bring to the attention of the House. This was his résumé. It is important that he redeems himself. He indicated that he was a councillor, an hon. Member of Parliament and all that. I think that God is wonderful because he gave him an opportunity to lead the country. It is within this time that he was given that he needs to redeem himself because in the forty-eight years he was lamenting about, he was part and parcel of the governments that ran this country.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: For much of the forty eight-years after Independence, we have been walking eight hours or seven days to get to a particular school. This is scandalous. 

He indicated that he has been sitting in this House for many years. That is why I am saying that this is the right time for him to redeem himself, failure to which history will judge him harshly. For forty-eight years, some places in this country have never seen any development. For forty-eight years, people have been resisting agreements that they made when they established this nation. Forty-eight years after Independence, people are still trying to come with vendettas and vengeance. This is not right. When someone leaves the Government, he is threatened with deportation. That is not right. Let us be above that. The fact that Mr Banda resigned and left the Government is not reason enough for this Government to start throwing the Immigration Department on him and saying that he is a foreigner, after having served in several governments. That is not right.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: You must be ashamed of yourselves. We are a democratic country and there is no way you can start accusing people of things only when they differ with you. That is not right.


Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!
(Debate adjourned)



The Vice-President (Dr Scott): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

The House adjourned at 1912 hours until 0900 hours on Friday, 5th October, 2012.