Tuesday, 21^st December, 2021

 

The House met at 0900 hours

 

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

NATIONAL ANTHEM

 

PRAYER

 

______

 

MOTION

 

SUPPLEMENTARY ESTIMATES NO. 1 of 2021

 

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now resolve into Committee of Supply to consider Supplementary Estimates No. 1 of 2021.

 

Madam Speaker, I am a bearer of a message from the President of the Republic of Zambia, recommending favourable consideration of the Motion I now lay on the Table.

 

Dr Musokotwane laid the document on the Table.

 

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, in accordance with Article 203 of the Constitution, the Minister responsible for finance shall, where the amount appropriated in any Appropriation Act is insufficient to meet expenditure in that financial year, lay before the National Assembly for approval a supplementary estimate of expenditure.

 

Madam Speaker, by virtue of the authority conveyed on me by the article of the Constitution I quoted above, I now present Supplementary Estimates No. 1 of 2021, which is for expenditure covering the financial year ending December, 2021.

 

Madam Speaker, the total Supplementary Budget stands at K19.6 billion. Allow me to bring out the notable proposed expenditure allocations contained in this supplementary estimate of expenditure.

 

Madam Speaker, out of the recommended K19.6 billion, K12.5 billion, representing 63.9 per cent, is required to account for the “Free of Payment” bonds that were issued by the Government early this year. These are:

 

1. K7.4 billion on fuel and K5.1 billion on the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP), which were issued to finance fuel arrears and FISP during the course of the year. The expenditure did not, however, involve the actual movement of cash from the Treasury. Therefore, the supplementary expenditure is meant to capture the transactions for accounting purposes. The actual cash outlay will be incurred in the respective years when the bonds mature. They are like an ‘owe you’ instrument;
2. K2.7 billion or 13.9 per cent is required as an additional allocation to finance Government operations as well as take care of unforeseen circumstances that may occur before the end of the year. This allocation includes K1.1 billion to meet the shortfalls on personal emoluments for the financial year ending December, 2021, for the entire Public Service, mainly due to the maintenance of unpaid retirees on the payroll and the implementation of the debt swap on utility debts;
3. K229.6 million will be used to dismantle fuel arrears and K200 million will be used to pay for outstanding contractual commitments before we move to the next phase of the Millennium Challenge while K190.8 million will be utilised on oversees allowances for November and December, 2021. The balance will cater for the various operations and projects across ministries, provinces and other spending agencies (MPSAs);
4. K3 billion or 15.1 per cent is required to increase the budget provision for revenue that has been collected over and above what was projected and ensure that expenditure can be accounted for and captured in the financial report for 2021. This allocation includes K2.6 billion for expenditure incurred in the 2021 Budget for 2019 and 2020 unremitted third-party payments for the entire Public Service. These are payments for deductions like pensions and loans;
5. K250 million is for the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) to facilitate part-payment of farmers while the balance of K3 billion is required to accommodate the additional revenue to be collected under the Judiciary, the Ministry of Higher Education, the Zambia Information and Communication Technology Authority (ZICTA), the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock, and the Copperbelt Province;
6. K736.6 million or 3.8 per cent is required to cater for increased operations under the Office of the President, Special Division;
7. K619.1 million or 3.2 per cent is additional donor funds that came after the 2021 Budget was approved across various MPSAs while K14.5 million is an intra-budget variation under the Ministry of Housing and Infrastructure Development to enable the National Housing Authority (NHA) to settle principal obligations owed to the National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA); and
8. K22.9 million is required to facilitate for the expenditure of funds in 2021 that were carried over from 2020.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, I thank the House for the support.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Question put and agreed to.

 

______

 

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY

 

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the

Chair]

 

SUPPLEMENTARY ESTIMATES NO. 1 OF 2021

 

Votes 01, 02, 07, 08, 11, 15, 16 , 17, 18, 21, 27, 31, 33, 34, 37, 38, 45, 46, 51, 52, 54, 62, 65, 68, 77, 78, 80, 86, 89, 91 and 99 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

_______

 

HOUSE RESUMED

 

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

Supplementary Estimates No. 1 of 2021 reported approved.

 

Report on Wednesday, 22^nd December, 2021.

 

_______

 

MOTION

 

REPORT OF THE PARLIAMENTARY SELECT COMMITTEE APPOINTED TO SCRUTINISE THE PRESIDENTIAL APPOINTMENT OF HON. JUSTICE DR MUMBA MALILA, SC, TO SERVE AS CHIEF JUSTICE AND MR VINCENT BLACKSKIN MALAMBO, SC, TO SERVE AS A MEMBER OF THE JUDICIAL COMPLAINTS COMMISSION

 

Mr Andeleki (Katombola): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that this House do adopt the Report of the Parliamentary Select Committee Appointed to Scrutinise the Presidential Appointment of Hon. Justice Dr Mumba Malila, SC, to Serve as Chief Justice and Mr Vincent Blackskin Malambo, SC, to Serve as a Member of the Judicial Complaints Commission, for the First Session of the Thirteenth National Assembly, laid on the Table of the House on Friday, 17^th December, 2021.

 

Madam Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

 

Ms Halwiindi (Kabwe Central): Madam, I beg to second the Motion.

 

Mr Andeleki: Madam Speaker, the appointment of the Chief Justice is made pursuant to Article 140 of the Constitution of Zambia, Chapter 1 of the Laws of Zambia, while that of the member of the Judicial Complaints Commission is made pursuant to Section 20 of the Judicial Code of Conduct Act No.13 of 1999.

 

Madam Speaker, the two pieces of legislation empower the President to appoint the Chief Justice and a member of the Judicial Complaints Commission (JCC), subject to ratification by the National Assembly.

 

Madam Speaker, the Committee notes the pivotal role that the Chief Justice and the JCC play in the dispensation and administration of justice, ensuring good governance and upholding of the rule of law in the country. It also notes, with satisfaction, that all the State security agencies did not find any adverse records against the nominees. Additionally, the witnesses unanimously submitted that the nominees possessed the requisite qualifications and experience to serve in the positions to which they had been appointed. The Committee, however, notes that Article 259(1)(b) of the Constitution requires that in making appointments to public offices, unless it is not practicable to do so, 50 per cent should be appointed from each gender, and observes that both nominees presented for ratification are male. In this regard, the Committee urges the appointing authority to take this Constitutional requirement into consideration when making appointments in the future.

 

Madam Speaker, below are some of the specific observations the Committee made on each nominee.

 

Hon Justice Dr Mumba Malila, SC

 

Madam Speaker, the Committee notes that the nominee has had a stellar career as an academician, legal practitioner and Judge of the Supreme Court. The Committee further notes that the nominee served twice as Attorney-General of the Republic of Zambia and previously served as Chairperson of the Human Rights Commission (HRC). Currently, he is Chairperson of the Committee on Court Operations. Additionally, the Committee observes that the nominee is an accomplished scholar and has published books and scholarly articles on various subjects, including on the independence of the judiciary. The Committee is confident that, with that experience, the nominee will bring the necessary reforms to the Judiciary. In this regard, the Committee supports his appointment to serve as Chief Justice of the Republic of Zambia.

 

Mr Vincent Blackskin Malambo, SC

 

Madam Speaker, the Committee observes that the nominee is a seasoned legal practitioner with thirty-seven years post-admission experience. The Committee notes that he previously served as Minister of Legal Affairs. The Committee further notes that the nominee also lectured Professional Ethics and Conduct at the Zambia Institute of Advanced Legal Education (ZIALE) and is currently a member of the Legal Practitioners Committee (LPC) of the Law Association of Zambia (LAZ). The Committee, therefore, supports his appointment as a member of the JCC.

 

Madam Speaker, the Committee, after due and thorough consideration, is of the view that both the nominees are suitably qualified, and possess the requisite experience and competences to serve in the positions to which they have been appointed. In view of the foregoing, the Committee recommends that this august House ratifies the Presidential appointment of Hon. Justice Dr Mumba Malila, SC, to serve as Chief Justice of the Republic of Zambia, and Mr Vincent Blackskin Malambo, SC, to serve as a member of the JCC.

 

Madam Speaker, finally, the Committee thanks you and the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly for the services rendered to it during its deliberations. The Committee further hanks all the witnesses for their submissions, which assisted it in arriving at an informed recommendation to this House.

 

Madam Speaker, it is now my pleasure to call upon the House to ratify the appointment before it.

 

 Madam Speaker, I beg to move.

 

 Madam Speaker: Does the seconder wish to debate now or later?

 

Ms Phiri (Milanzi): Now, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you most sincerely for according me the rare honour and privilege to second the Motion that has been ably moved by the Katombola Member of Parliament, Hon. Clement Andeleki. The mover has adequately highlighted most of the notable points upon which your Committee supports the ratification of Hon. Justice Dr Mumba Malila, SC, to serve as Chief Justice, and Mr Vincent Blackskin Malambo, SC, to serve as a member of the Judicial Complaints Commission (JCC).

 

Madam Speaker, in seconding the Motion, I want to maintain your Committee’s observation that all the nominees possess the requisite competences and experience to serve in their respective appointments.

 

Madam Speaker, your Committee –

 

Mr Sing’ombe: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Sing’ombe: Madam Speaker, I am a bit perplexed because when you asked for a seconder, initially, I saw the hon. Member for Kabwe Central indicate to second the Motion, and you indicated that she would second. Now, I see another hon. Member seconding the Motion.

 

Madam Speaker, who is supposed to second the Motion? For the record, you indicated it would be the hon. Member for Kabwe Central, who rose to second the Motion.

 

Madam Speaker: According to the record, the hon. Member for Milanzi is the seconder of the Motion. At the time that the Motion was being called and the seconder was supposed to indicate, the hon. Member for Milanzi was not in the House. However, both the hon. Member for Kabwe Central Constituency and the hon. Member for Milanzi Constituency belong to the Select Committee that was appointed to scrutinise the two appointments; for Chief Justice and member of the Judicial Complaints Commission (JCC). So, any member of the Committee can second the Motion, and we are in order, hon. Member for Dundumwezi.

 

The hon. Member for Milanzi, please, proceed.

 

Ms Phiri: Madam Speaker, your Committee, therefore, commends the appointing authority for ensuring that only persons who met the legal requirements were appointed to serve as Chief Justice and a member of the JCC, respectively. It is pleasing to note that all the witnesses who appeared before your Committee were in favour of the appointments, and attested that the nominees possessed sufficient credentials to hold the respective positions. The Committee, however, sadly observed the practice by the Executive of publicly announcing appointments before they have been ratified by the House, and notes that this practice has the potential to prejudice the ratification process and should be discouraged.

 

Madam Speaker, as I conclude, I extend my gratitude to all members of your Committee for their objectivity, professionalism and unity of purpose during the Committee’s deliberations. I further extend the gratitude to the Committee’s members for giving me the opportunity to second this Motion.

 

Madam Speaker, with those very few remarks, I beg to second the Motion.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Thank you so much, Madam Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to support this Motion, which has been ably moved by the Member for Katombola, Hon. Andeleki. Indeed, the report is very clear and the two nominees are eminent and distinguished citizens who are suitable for these very important appointments.

 

Madam Speaker, the Chief Justice, who is the head of the Judiciary and whose responsibility is to administer the Judiciary, is very critical. Indeed, the Judiciary is a very important arm of the Government.

 

Madam Speaker, the Chief Justice’s responsibilities and duties, among others, are to ensure that Judges and judicial officers operate independently and to regulate the conduct of Judges and judicial officers.

 

Madam Speaker, this role is critical, but I have no iota of doubt in my mind that the nominee, Hon. Justice Dr Mumba Malila, SC, will be equal to the task. Indeed, justice must not only be dispensed, but must be seen to be dispensed.

 

Madam Speaker, I know that the in-coming Chief Justice is aware of the environment we are in and that he will ensure that his Judges are equally protected as they discharge their duties because this is very important. Normally, the questions from the public and higher authorities have a negative impact on the performance of our judicial officers.

 

Madam Speaker, admittedly, our Administration did its part by introducing certain layers of the court system, such as the Court of Appeal and the Constitutional Court (ConCourt), but a lot of work still needs to be done to ensure matching infrastructure is provided for the courts to function properly. I know that the provinces lack adequate infrastructure for the Judiciary and that our Judges, sometimes, sit in environments that are not conducive enough for them to hold court sessions. So, on this score, I call on the in-coming Chief Justice to collaborate with the Ministry of Justice to ensure that infrastructure matching the number of courts that we have is put in place. That will not come cheap but, with dedication and commitment, it can be achieved.

 

Madam Speaker, we wish Hon. Justice Dr Mumba Malila, SC, well. As a nation, we look forward to his ensuring that justice is seen to be served. A lot of progress was made in terms of court cases that were pending, which culminated in most of our Correctional Facilities or remand prisons being congested. So, the Chief Justice should ensure that measures are put in place to not allow cases to pend unnecessarily, as that leads to most people languishing in our Correctional Facilities without being attended to.

 

Madam Speaker, the other nominee will head another very critical institution, the Judicial Complaints Commission (JCC), which is established pursuant to Article 236 of the Constitution. Indeed, Hon. Vincent Blackskin Malambo, SC, is an eminent and experienced legal person; he has been an all-round person, having been part of the Cabinet, this august House and the legal practice for a long time. So, we expect him to also ensure that the Code of Conduct that this very important institution is mandated to enforce is enforced above board. The Judges have an immense task and, sometimes, complaints that are taken to this very important institution are just meant to malign them because, obviously, no one takes kindly to the law going against them. So, sometimes, the complaints are meant to discourage our Judges from performing their duties.

 

Madam Speaker, it is important that as Mr Malambo, SC, takes up his responsibility, he ensures that the institution only deals will genuine and valid complaints so that the Judges can feel protected as well. Otherwise, anyone will just walk to the commission and scandalise the eminent men and women. We know that despite their profession, some of them are strong individuals, but they are equally human beings who have emotions. However, when their names are dented in public, it is very difficult for them to defend themselves and preserve their integrity. Indeed, they are human beings who are prone to err, but it is important that Hon. Malambo, SC, creates an environment that will ensure that these eminent men and women are equally protected for the important work that they do in this country.

 

Madam Speaker, with those few words, I support the report.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Kambita (Zambezi East): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for the opportunity to add my voice to the debate on the Report of the Parliamentary Select Committee appointed to scrutinise the appointments of the Chief Justice and the member of the Judicial Complaints Commission (JCC). I will comment briefly on the process of the two appointments.

 

Madam Speaker, of course, there have been a few complaints in the public domain as to the way the appointments were made; some people have asked how the announcement could be made before Parliament ratified the appointments, but I have a different argument to put across. In any case, the statutes give the President the powers to appoint the two. What matters are the services that the two will render to this Republic after the ratification of the appointments.

 

Madam Speaker, in previous Governments, we saw a situation in which announcements were made and people started acting in the positions to which they were appointed before the House ratified the appointments. We are very professional, and followed the law to the letter. The men we are ratifying today are not yet working in those offices until we ratify them. So, what is wrong with announcing their names before ratification? In any case, the general public is at liberty to submit to your Select Committee any adverse reports they have on the appointees. Further, your Committee has been having sittings that are open to the public and to which stakeholders were called to make submissions. We have heard the seconder of the Motion clearly state that none of the stakeholders who were called in as witness to submit to the Select Committee made any comments that would stop us from ratifying the appointment of the two. That confirms the high standing of the two men in society; they are dignified men of good standing in society who deserve those positions.

 

Madam Speaker, the Judiciary, as an arm of the Government, is a very important institution. Our system of governance is such that we have three arms of the Government; the Legislature, the Judiciary and the Executive. The Executive and the Judiciary are supposed to operate independently and complement each other. It is in an effort to ensure that is achieved that men of substance; people with high levels of integrity, are appointed to such offices as the Office of the Chief Justice. In this case, as you have seen, of those who made submissions to your Committee, had anything adverse to say about the integrity of the person who is being appointed Chief Justice. Therefore, this House has no option but to ratify him. If the stakeholders, many as they were, represented by the witnesses who made submission to the Committee, have nothing to say against these men, who are we to come here, simply politick and reverse this decision, which the general  populace has approved?

 

Mr Kapyanga: Who is politicking? Walitemwa ukusabaila iwe.

 

Mr Kampyongo: Question!

 

Laughter

 

Mr Kambita: Madam Speaker, we have not forgotten how the JCC of yesteryears ...

 

Mr Kapyanga: You are so irrelevant.

 

Mr Kambita: ... sometimes misbehaved, especially during the time we had the 2016 election petition.

 

Mr Sing’ombe: Hear, hear! Volume!

 

Mr Kambita: That is why this time around, it has been very careful. I know that the person who has been appointed to that institution is a former Minister of Justice. Further, even in his practice, we have not heard of his being reported to the Law Association of Zambia (LAZ), his certificate being withdrawn and the like. He has performed in a very dignified way. Therefore, why, hon. Members, would we not ratify these honourable people in our society to run those important institutions and complement the efforts towards good governance in this country?

 

Madam Speaker, I thought, with those few words, I would encourage everyone to support the ratification of the honourable men who have been appointed to the two important positions in our land.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr E. Tembo (Feira): Madam Speaker, I thank the Select Committee for the job well done. I also thank the various people who submitted to the Committee on the two nominees.

 

Madam Speaker, let me start with the Chief Justice and talk about the role of Parliament in the ratification of the nominees.

 

Madam Speaker, let me just blatantly say that as the National Assembly or Parliament, we are not a rubber stamp; we are here to properly scrutinise the nominees who come. We are not here to follow what people from various circles have said, but to look at the report as it is, scrutinise and ratify, and we, not any other person, will discharge the responsibility that goes with this ratification. Therefore, I would like to differ with those who asked who we are to not ratify when others have said that we should do so. We have the mandate from the people to scrutinise all the nominees who come, not only the Chief Justice, but also many others who are yet to come. That said, the people of Feira are happy, this morning, that you have accorded them the opportunity to contribute to the ratification of the Chief Justice.

 

Madam Speaker, the Judiciary has a very important role to play in a democracy because that is where everyone runs to. When we are aggrieved, we run to the Judiciary. If the Judiciary is not functioning properly, it becomes a source of conflict. Therefore, in contributing to the debate on the ratification of the Chief Justice, who is the head of the Judiciary in Zambia, I must say that the position has two roles, the judicial role and the administrative role. These roles run from the Local Courts up to the Supreme Court as well as the Constitutional Court. That being the case, we need the nominee who comes before this House to be qualified in both the judicial and the administrative aspects.

 

Madam Speaker, the Report of the Select Committee suggests that the nominee for Chief Justice is an angel. I am not saying he is not; I am merely stating what the report says. That being the case, I would have wanted to see a thorough report. It has become traditional for reports to come and be rubber-stamped and adopted, and ratifications made. As I said, Parliament has powers, and I want to see a Parliament that does it work thoroughly. Therefore, the Select Committee must go into more detail –

 

Mr Mweetwa: On a point of order, Madam Chairperson.

 

Madam Speaker: A point order is raised.

 

Mr Mweetwa: Madam Speaker, I have reluctantly risen to raise this point of order because I am concerned about the manner in which my brother, the Minister for Feira, is debating, particularly –

 

Laughter

 

Hon. Government Members: He is not a Minister.

 

Madam Speaker: The ‘hon. Member of Parliament for Feira’, hon. Minister.

 

Mr Mweetwa:  Oh, okay, he is a Member of Parliament. Thank you for your guidance.

 

Madam Speaker, this point of order is premised on the provisions of Section 65 of our Standing Orders and the practices of this House. In particular, I am aware that the phrase ‘rubber stamp’ is unparliamentary. However, the hon. Member has repeatedly used it. I was very reluctant to raise the point of order, hoping that he would remind himself that the language he was using is unparliamentary, but he appears very motivated to continue using such language...

 

Hon. Member Government Member: And waffling.

 

Mr Kambita: With propensity.

 

Mr Mweetwa: ... as he attempts to make heads or tails of what he is trying say to this House. 

 

Madam Speaker, I need your guidance on whether the hon. Member is in order to use language that this House has ruled unparliamentary?

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, as we debate, let us remain factual and avoid using unparliamentary language.

 

Hon. Member for Feira, proceed but, please, desist from using unparliamentary language.

 

Mr E Tembo: Madam Speaker, I take note of that and thank my brother for his point of order. I replace the phrase ‘rubber stamp,’ with the phrase ‘Parliament is the only body that ratifies’.

 

Madam Speaker, before the point of order, I was saying that the role of Chief Justice requires a person who is qualified in both the judicial and administrative aspects. I agree with the Committee’s report because I know that the nominee is well qualified in his judicial role as explained, having been a legal practitioner and Attorney-General, and as a Judge of the Supreme Court and scholar. I have benefited so much from his books. However, I the report does not address his qualifications as they relate to the administrative role. Is the nominee able to look at the administrative bottlenecks in the Judiciary? As I speak, we do not have enough court premises, right from the Local Court level up to the Supreme Court. In fact, the Constitutional Court shares court facilities with other courts. So, we need someone who is more practical on the other side and one who can even inspect the Local Courts and High Courts in the various districts to see what is happening in the various courts.

 

Madam Speaker, today, we have a backlog of cases, and judgments are not forthcoming. Notwithstanding the fact that there is legislation to the effect that judgments must be rendered within six months and rulings in three months, the problem is still there. Wo, we need a nominee who has the ability to go down and deal with all the issues relating to the Judiciary.

 

Madam Speaker, in future scrutiny of Chief Justices, the interviewing of nominees should be made public. We are human, and I know that the security wings have done their job, but we need to do a bit more because this is a very important office that touches the core of justice and human rights in this country. That being the case, it is important that people really know who the nominee is.

 

Mr Andeleki: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr E. Tembo: Madam Speaker, as I said, there is a lot that needs to be done in the Judiciary, from the Local Courts, through the Subordinate Courts, to the High Courts and the Supreme Court. It is my considered view that in addition to the other qualifications, the Chief Justice must be qualified to handle the various problems at these levels.

 

Madam Speaker, I am of the considered view that –

 

Mr Syakalima: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, raise this point of order pursuant to Standing Order No. 65.

 

Hon. Opposition Member: What does it say?

 

Mr Syakalima: Is he in order to mislead the country that next time, he wants the public to be involved, yet the Select Committee is already a public forum that members of the public can attend? Why does he want to mislead the nation that this is not obtaining, as of now, when it has been the practice that all Committees of Parliament are open to the public?

 

Mr Mweetwa: He is a green horn!

 

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, I need your serious ruling on why he must continue misleading himself, since he does not know? He must not spill it over to the public.

 

Madam Speaker: I believe that the hon. Member who is debating is expressing his opinion on how the selection of a Chief Justice should be conducted. There was a debate on how this process should be done. So, allow him to express his opinion. When you are given your chance, you can also rebut his opinion.

 

Proceed, hon. Member for Feira but, please, be factual.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr E. Tembo: Madam Speaker, before I was interrupted, I was about to submit that the Judiciary has a special role to play in this country. My submission is that the Select Committee must play an even higher role than it is playing now. As regards publicity, we expect the involvement of the public, not only selected institutions, but any person, to come forth and make his/her submissions.

 

Madam Speaker, my final submission on the ratification of the Chief Justice is that the report goes back to the Select Committee for the Committee to look at the administrative capacity of the nominee, and come back to this House and convince us that the nominee is qualified even on the other side , not just looking at one side,.

 

Madam Speaker, I also want to make a submission as regards the announcement of the nominee. There is an issue –

 

Mr Chairperson: Order!

 

The Hon. Member’s time expired.

 

Mr E. Tembo: I did not realise that.

 

Laughter

 

Dr Katakwe (Solwezi East): Madam Speaker, sometimes, it is quite disturbing to hear my colleague who has just been debating, and who claims that he has studied law –

 

Mr E. Tembo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

 

Let us just debate the report, not ourselves. Kindly stick to the report.

 

Dr Katakwe: Madam Speaker, thank you for your guidance.

 

Madam Speaker, I stand to support the Motion on the Floor of this House regarding the report by the Select Committee that was appointed to scrutinise the appointment of the Hon. Justice Mumba Malila, SC, to serve as Chief Justice, and Mr Vincent Blackskin Malambo, SC, to serve as a member of the Judicial Complaints Commission (JCC).

 

Madam Speaker, from the profile that I know of the two State Counsels, and looking at their qualifications, which we have heard about in this House, they are highly qualified. State Counsel Justice Dr Mumba Malila, SC, for instance, is a graduate of the University of Zambia. He has also studied at Cambridge University and University of Pretoria. Further, he has held different positions. He is a highly qualified State Counsel, and so is Mr Blackskin Malambo. Looking at the qualifications of the two, I believe that they are equal to the task in terms of the reforms in this country. In the Judiciary of this country, we expect the reforms to be enhanced or expedited for the sake of justice in this nation and justice in the Judiciary.

 

Madam Speaker, if you look at many of the complaints of people who have been detained or imprisoned for ten years, you will find out that they have appealed, but their cases have not been heard. Probably, these two highly qualified State Counsels will be able to look at issues to do with human resources. There may be a need to train and graduate more lawyers from the Zambia Institute of Advanced Legal Education (ZIALE) so that they beef up the Judiciary in order to expedite the disposal of cases that have been outstanding for too long.

 

Madam Speaker, I believe that as Chief Justice, an eminent legal practitioner with several decades of practice at the bar and a Supreme Court Judge, Dr Mumba Malila, SC, has the capacity and propensity to lead this nation to the level of justice that this nation currently needs. For example, I believe that the perceived corruption in the Judiciary can be looked at by this highly qualified State Counsel.

 

Madam Speaker, in terms of infrastructure and technological development in the Judiciary, this highly qualified State Counsel is equal to the task. I can say many things, but the profile is there for people to scrutinise. Otherwise, I support this Motion on the two appointees.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker. 

 

Ms Nyirenda (Lundazi): Madam Speaker, firstly, I appreciate the appointing authority for giving us men who are educated, who have experience and who have an understanding of law.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Nyirenda: I would have loved one to be a woman, but time and chance happen to them all.

 

Madam Speaker, firstly, I will comment on Justice Dr Mumba Malila, SC. I know he is a man who has run his company very well. I also know that he has been a Minister before and has practiced law. Having been in all these areas, I know that he is a capable person to be given that position.

 

Madam Speaker, what I would like to see is these men wearing gender lenses when it comes to judicial issues. Women stay for a long time on their own because some husbands have been in prison for a long time. I hope, by putting these men in these positions, we can see justice for some of our women in Chitungulu, Lundazi and many other areas.

 

Madam Speaker, I also want to talk about the independence of the Judiciary. We do not just want to hear independence being talked about, but also to see it and touch it. We believe that having the right people in positions of authority causes the masses to celebrate. We also want to see impartiality, not to just read about it. So, the appointees should not look at the face when it comes to the dispensation of the law. Instead, they should use the law lens when it comes to work. So, we expect to see the best and, after all is done, what must be known is that they are going to be judged by how they are going to work. At the end of the day, they have built very good curricula vitae (CVs), and we expect them to continue that by changing the justice system so that we can see that justice delayed is justice denied. There should also be changes leading to our having accelerated rates of case resolution and seeing those who were misjudged being judged rightly at the appointees’ mercy.

 

Madam Speaker, all I am saying is that the nominees must align themselves with the laws that are part of our traditions and culture. They should not try to inherit laws that are expected elsewhere and bring them on the Zambian scene. My advice to them – I know they are my personal friends ...

 

Interruption

 

Ms Nyirenda: ... and I know they are people we have interacted with. So, I expect the best from Mr Malambo, SC, and Justice Dr Mumba Malila, SC, and I say, ‘hearty congratulations’ to them. They have earned their positions and deserve them.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Nyirenda: They should work in their positions and ensure that the people of Zambia are happy to see them hold those positions. As people from Lundazi, we celebrate with them.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Minister of Southern Province (Mr Mweetwa): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for granting me the opportunity to ventilate a few ideas or views on the Motion on the Floor of this House.

 

Madam Speaker, let me begin by commending the mover of the Motion for the very able manner in which he moved this Motion, and the seconder thereof, and proceed to congratulate and commend His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, on his conspicuous nomination of such eminent citizens, who are professionally, academically and morally qualified to serve in these important positions and to serve our country.

 

Madam Speaker, I declare that I am debating the two nominees having had occasion to know them at close quarters because both were my lecturers. Hon. Justice Dr Mumba Malila, SC was my lecturer in the Law of Contract at the University of Zambia, School of Law and, later on, in Commercial Transactions at the Zambia Institute of Advanced Legal Education (ZIALE). Mr Vincent Malambo, SC, was my lecturer in Professional Ethics and Conduct at ZIALE. So, I know them from such a close range.

 

Madam Speaker, before I delve into my observations, allow me to make some comments on the report of your Committee and, firstly, say that overall, subject to the comments I am just about to make, I support the views of your Committee. The comments I wish to make arise from page 11 of the Committee’s report, wherein your Committee has stated the following:

 

“The Committee notes that Article 259(1)(b) of the Constitution requires that in making appointments to public offices, unless it is not practicable to do so, 50 per cent of each gender should be appointed. The Committee observes that both nominees presented for ratification are male. Therefore, this constitutional requirement has not been adhered to.”

 

Madam Speaker, with due respect to the views of the Committee, I beg to view this interpretation of the law differently, and to state that in the light Article 259 is cast, it refers to appointments, for instance, in which we were to ratify ten Judges. Then, we would expect five to be female and five male. Here, we are only ratifying one Judge; the Chief Justice, and the appointment of the Chairperson of the Judicial Complaints Commission (JCC) is a different matter. The nominations are not coming in context of being one appointment for us to go for fifty-fifty gender representation. So, that should be borne in mind. His Excellency, the appointing authority, is on terra firma in appointing the two, and has not breached the Constitution.

 

Madam Speaker, secondly, the Committee has noted the public announcement by the Executive of the nomination and that this has the tendency to prejudice the integrity of the nominees, assuming, of course, they were to not go through. To the contrary, my views are that such announcements give an occasion for citizens to know in advance that there is this process about to take place at Parliament so that those who have issues with the nominations can come and make submissions before the Committee. It should not be a secret. 

 

Madam Speaker, let me now come to my substantive comments and state that ...

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

Business was suspended from 1040 hours to 1100 hours.

 

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

Mr Mweetwa: Madam Speaker, when business was suspended, I was beginning to zero in on my substantive submission on this Motion. I, therefore, wish to proceed in that manner.

 

Madam Speaker, His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, made the correct decision in appointing the nominees whose names are before this House for ratification. I say so because these nominations, in my view, and in the view of many, have come at the right time; when the Government of the Republic of Zambia has declared war against corruption and plunder of national resources. These appointments will add impetus to the fight against corruption.

 

Madam Speaker, presently, we have a situation in which there is an outcry from isolated individuals that the fight against corruption is ethnically driven. We also have an outcry from some individuals saying that the fight against corruption and the arrests of those suspected to have been involved in the plunder of national resources is an affront to human rights. We have a nominee for the position of Chief Justice who has received unequivocal support from the entire public. No one is saying ‘No’ to the nomination of Justice Dr Mumba Malila, SC. Equally, no one is saying ‘No’ to the nomination of Mr Vincent Malambo, SC. Mr Vincent Malambo, SC, is presently a member of the Legal Practitioners Disciplinary Committee, which checks on the ethics and conduct of lawyers. He should be the right person to check the conduct of judicial officers.

 

Madam Speaker, we think that the nominations are timely; they have come at the right time. Even those who may find themselves before the courts of law on allegations of corruption or plunder will know that they are in safe hands. The Judiciary is in safe hands because it is being steered by a person with an unquestionable reputation.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

The Minister of Justice (Mr Haimbe): Madam Speaker, thank you for allowing me this opportunity to add my voice to the debate on the Motion on the Floor of the House, regarding the ratification of two Presidential appointees, namely Hon. Justice Dr Mumba Malila, SC, for Chief Justice of the Republic of Zambia, and Mr Vincent Blackskin Malambo, SC, as a member of the Judicial Complaints Commission (JCC).

 

Madam Speaker, I must say, from the outset, that I support, on behalf of the appointing authority, the Motion that is before the House. Indeed, as those who have spoken before me have said, and as it is clear from your report, the two nominees are above board and, certainly, are the right nominees for their respective positions.

 

Madam Speaker, speaking about the report, I wish to adopt wholesale as my own the submission by the hon. Minister for Southern Province in respect of the general matters relating to the Motion on the Floor of the House and the report, but specifically in respect of the interpretation of Article 259 of the Constitution. I agree entirely that whilst we support the Motion and agree with the content of the report, specifically in regard to the matter of interpretation of Article 259, it must be taken with that particular issue taken under advisement. That notwithstanding, the Motion is supported fully.

 

Madam Speaker, allow me to also address some of the concerns raised by the hon. Members in debating this Motion. In particular, the hon. Member for Feira intimated on the Floor of the House that, perhaps, the processes leading up to the appointment of the Chief Justice lacked the necessary degree of public scrutiny. I wish to, with due respect, point out for the benefit of the people of the Republic of Zambia, who are following this debate keenly, and who had this matter brought to their attention previously in a public debate by some of the academics, who are members of the public. It was, indeed, a big issue as to whether or not we had had sufficient public scrutiny on the manner of the appointment of the Chief Justice.

 

I wish to point out, Madam Speaker, that looking at your report; the report of the Parliamentary Select Committee, the House will observe that in fact, no less than twelve witnesses submitted before the Parliamentary Select Committee and, indeed, those witnesses adequately represented the interest of the members of the public. It will be noted, for example, and this is very important, that two members of the civil society added their voice to the process of appointing the Chief Justice via making submissions to the Parliamentary Select Committee. It is worth noting that both civil society organisations (CSOs) were very clear in their support of the nominees, pointing out that the nominees both showed the exemplary nature or character that is required to hold high judicial office. Indeed, they also underscored what we, as the New Dawn Government, have talked about repeatedly; appointments would be made on merit.

 

Madam Speaker, there can be no question, looking at the nominees and the contents of the report, that the individuals nominated by the appointing authority meet the highest standards. They, actually, exceed the highest standards and have raised the bar for persons to be appointed, and it is clear that they have been appointed on merit. That cannot be questioned, and it is part of the New Dawn Government’s commitment to the people of Zambia to make merit one of the key considerations in making appointments. That alone is good reason for the people of Zambia and, indeed, the hon. Members of this House to ratify the appointment of the two individuals. So, the question of public scrutiny cannot arise.

 

Madam Speaker, also, there was a question as to whether, in particular, Justice Dr Mumba Malila, SC, has the requisite administrative skills to execute the administrative functions of the Chief Justice, aside from the judicial functions. That question has been answered by the hon. Members of the Select Committee in its report when it notes that the nominee has held the office of Attorney-General of Zambia not once, but twice. That is a clear indication, given the heavy responsibility that the Attorney-General carries, that Hon. Justice Dr Mumba Malila, SC, holds the requisite experience to be able to administer the Judiciary to the requisite standards. Even just from his titles, that is obvious. So, there can be no question as to the honourable nominee’s capabilities and qualification, both in terms of his judicial functions and administrative functions.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member for Lundazi made a very important observation regarding essentially what amounts to the rule of law and spoke to the fact that for the people of Lundazi, it was critical that laws be applied without any gender bias. I wish to add my voice to that particular aspect by noting that the law is blind; the law does not choose on matters of gender or other artificial boundaries, and this comes back to the integrity of the individuals who have been nominated. As we have already noted, and as has been noted from the previous debates, the two individuals are eminent legal scholars, legal practitioners and, indeed, members of the Judiciary who are only driven by the motivation to ensure that the rule of law prevails. That should allay the concerns of the people of Lundazi, because the law is blind and those applying it are equally blind to any artificial considerations. Certainly, that underscores the fact that these nominations are the best that could be made in the interest of the people of Zambia. Indeed, we need not even go any further in talking about their distinctive qualifications, which have been laid on the Table of the House already via the report. They do qualify in that respect.

 

Madam Speaker, speaking for myself and on behalf of the appointing authority, as it were, I can say that I have worked closely with both individuals to the extent that I know their capabilities and the ethos that drives them. Therefore, I can vouch for them on the Floor of the House. Certainly, their taking up these appointments will enhance the fight for the rule of law to prevail, and they will underscore what the New Dawn Government has repeatedly said, which is that ours will be an Administration that respects the law. There can be no better basis upon which this hon. House should ratify the appointment of the said nominees than that. I, therefore, submit that the House do so.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Andeleki: Madam Speaker, thank you very much.

 

Madam Speaker, in winding up debate, I thank the hon. Members for supporting the Motion. I have taken note of all the comments.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Question put and agreed to.

 

Madam Speaker: I have a request for one hon. Member to render his maiden speech. I recognise the hon. Member of Parliament for Sinda Constituency.

 

Mr M. Tembo (Sinda): Madam Speaker, thank you ...

 

Hon. Members: Hammer, hammer!

 

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members.

 

Mr M. Tembo: … very much for giving me the opportunity to present my maiden speech.

 

Madam Speaker, allow me to begin by thanking the people who helped me emerge victorious as Member of Parliament for Sinda Constituency in the just-ended General Elections held on 12^th August, 2021. First and foremost, I thank the Former President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, for adopting me to contest the Sinda seat under the Patriotic Front (PF) party. I also thank party officials at the national, provincial, district, constituency and ward levels for the support that they rendered to me.

 

Madam Speaker, I would be failing in my duty if I did not recognise my family for giving me support. I also take this opportunity to thank the two Chiefs in Sinda, Chief Mbang’ombe and Chieftainess Kawaza, the church leaders and all the people in Sinda Constituency. I salute them all, and I will make sure that I perform my duties to the best of my ability.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank the PF Government for the infrastructure development that it started, such as the construction of hospitals, the construction of Sinda Day Secondary School, the construction of a police station and drilling of boreholes. I appeal to the New Dawn Government to continue with that development and complete those projects because they are very important to the people of Sinda.

 

Madam Speaker, the road network in Sinda Constituency is very bad. The roads are the Sinda/Mung’omba and Seya/Chitawe roads. I appeal to the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development to help us work on the roads.

 

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, I congratulate His Excellency Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu and Her Honour the Vice-President for their victories.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you and wish you a happy Christmas.

 

Madam Speaker: Thank you. At least, there is some effort that has been made. We still have two or three hon. Members of Parliament who have not yet rendered their maiden speeches. Please, do come along and present your maiden speeches.

 

_______

 

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY

 

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the

Chair]

 

(Consideration Resumed)

 

Mr Kambita (Zambezi East): Madam Chairperson, thank you very much for the opportunity to continue with the debate on the budget for North-Western Province.

 

Madam Chairperson, the last time I debated, I lamented that all the feeder roads in the North-Western Province had not been attended to in a very long time despite the province being endowed with much wealth in terms of natural resources that we are blessed with. Today, I want to continue by mentioning a few issues that are very important to our utilisation of that wealth that is deposited in that unique land of this country.

 

 Madam Chairperson, on infrastructure development, I want talk about trunk roads. In the North-Western Province, there are a number of trunk roads have remained unattended to. I know that the road from Mumbwa to Kasempa is very important, as it is a shortcut from Lusaka to the Northern-Western Province. If upgraded to bituminous standard, it would help us in terms of transporting all the mineral wealth we have and the many other products the North-Western Province produces. The Katunda/Lukulu/Watopa/Mumbezhi Road is another quick access to the North-Western Province from Lusaka. That road also needs to be attended to. You heard the hon. Members from the Western Province also debate that because it is important.

 

Madam Chairperson, the Solwezi/Mushindamo Road is a very economic road because it not only ends in Mushindamo, but also extends to Kipushi Border. We expect that a one-stop border post will be developed in that place, and we implore the New Dawn Government to consider upgrading that border post so that it can enable quick access into the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC).

 

Madam Chairperson, I remember that I alluded to feeder roads. For example, in Zambezi, the Chileng’a/Dipalata/Nyakuleng’a, Nyakuleng’a/Kayombo/Ndunga/Manyinga and Zambezi/ Chitokoloki roads need to be improved to bituminous standard. The Chitokoloki/Mpidi/ Nyilamba/Chizozo, Lwatembu/Kalwilo and many other roads also need to be worked on.

 

 Madam Chairperson, insofar as bridges are concerned, we are aware that the Government promised a bridge across the Zambezi River, which enables access to Zambezi West, where we have mineral and oil deposits. That bridge needs to be put across the river there. We also envisage the bridge across the Kabompo River in Watopa being put up. Bridges also need to be put up on the Lunga and Kafue rivers on the road from Mumbwa to Kasempa.

 

Madam Chairperson, the Acrow bridges that we were promised are still awaited in Zambezi and many other districts in the North-Western Province, and the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development needs to check what was done by the previous Government. 

 

Madam Chairperson, there are some health posts that have not yet been completed. Some work has been done, but there are works still pending.  In Zambezi, Kasomo and Katontwe are still pending, and there are many others in other districts. Overall, our township roads in the whole province have not been attended to, and they need to be attended to so that the province is uplifted to a standard befitting the wealth that it has.

 

Madam Chairperson, the road to Mwinilunga is in a deplorable state and, from Kalumbila to Mwinilunga, it is almost impassable, but that is where gold is coming from. We need that road to be done as soon as yesterday. I thought I should mention these pieces of infrastructure so that Government attends to them.

 

Madam Chairperson, to sum up, our people in the North-Western Province want to benefit from the mines in that province. Let it not just be a rich province by name, but also in terms of the infrastructure it has.

 

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Minister for North-Western Province (Mr Lihefu): Madam Chairperson, I thank you for the opportunity. On behalf of the people of the North-Western Province and, indeed, on my own behalf, I am honoured to present to this House the policy statement in support of the 2022 Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure for Office of the President, North-Western Province.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Chairperson: Order, hon. Minister!

 

You are actually winding up debate because the policy statement was given by Her Honour the Vice-President.

 

You can continue, but bearing in mind that –

 

Mr Lihefu: You are now confusing us.

 

The Chairperson: You can continue, hon. Minister.

 

Mr Lihefu: In which way should I continue?

 

Laughter

 

Mr Lihefu: Just by a ‘thank you’? You are now confusing us.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Lihefu: Madam Chairperson, I thank you for the guidance.

 

Interruptions

 

The Chairperson: Can we have order, please!

 

Let us listen to the hon. Minister for the North-Western Province.

 

Mr Lihefu: Madam Chairperson, let me thank the hon. Member who has debated on the Vote for the North-Western Province.

 

Madam Chairperson, the hon. Member who has debated on this Vote has highlighted important issues that are affecting the growth of the province. As it has been highlighted by the hon. Member, the North-Western Province is rich in terms of minerals and other natural resources, but it is the poorest province in this country.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Lihefu: My appeal to hon. Members in the North-Western Province is that we take advantage of the huge sum of K25.7 million that has been allocated to the province and make a difference in the province.

 

Mr Fube: On a point of order, Madam Chairperson.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Lihefu: Madam Chairperson, with those few words, I thank you.

 

 Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Madam Chairperson, first of all, I thank the President to the Republic of Zambia for appointing Hon. Mweetwa as Provincial Minister; a Minister who is equal to the task, and I know that he is going to face the challenges of the province head-on.

 

 Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

 Mr Sing’ombe: Madam Chairperson, the Southern Province has many challenges that were inherited from previous regimes. Firstly, I want the hon. Provincial Minister to investigate what happened to the money allocated by the World Bank for our roads in the Southern Province.

 

Madam Speaker, as I speak now, the previous –

 

Opposition hon. Members interjected.

 

Mr Sing’ombe: Can you shut up!

 

Laughter

 

The Chairperson: Order, hon. Member!

 

Telling your fellow hon. Member to shut up is unparliamentary. Can you, please, withdraw that.

 

 Mr Sing’ombe: Madam Chairperson, I withdraw that and sincerely apologise.

 

 Madam Speaker, there is no single road that has been worked on, and we want that money, through the hon. Provincial Minister, to be allocated where it was supposed to be taken.

 

Secondly, Madam Chairperson, I thank the New Dawn Government for bringing back the districts that were removed from the Southern Province, namely Itezhi-Tezhi and Chirundu. Now that Itezhi-Tezhi has been brought back to the Southern Province, we require a crossing point, a bridge, from Itezhi-Tezhi into Namwala. That bridge is vital to the people of Itezhi-Tezhi’s doing their work within the province properly. You are aware that previously, the people of Itezhi-Tezhi, especially those in Mbila, used to take three days to get to their Provincial Administration in Kabwe, which was quite expensive for them.

 

Madam Chairperson, the Mazabuka/Monze Road has now formed what we call the ‘crocodile formation’, which means that the road is now getting bad. We want that road to be worked on. I was shocked to hear one of my hon. Colleagues indicate that the Southern Province is more developed than Muchinga Province. That depends on the last time one visited the Southern Province, but Choma was declared a provincial headquarters at the same time as Chinsali yet, if you go to Chinsali, you will see that the Provincial Administration is like the Lusaka City Council in terms of size while Choma has nothing. Even the Provincial Minister’s house the one for the Permanent Secretary (PS) in Muchinga Province are two-storey buildings while my hon. Minister still resides in a rented house. So, the hon. Minister must get in touch with his hon. Colleague in Muchinga Province to learn how the latter’s two-storey building was constructed when we have nothing.

 

Madam Chairperson, the Niko/Monze Road is another road that we need to see worked on. However, I appreciate the hon. Minister because after he toured the road with the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Rural Development, the road has been funded. This is why he was elected. So, I thank him for having toured that road because the western part of Monze was getting completely cut off. We are very grateful that he seems to be in a hurry to attend to the road.

 

Madam Chairperson, the Chikankata Turnoff/Chikankata Mission Road requires works as well. Further, the road from Batoka to Sinazongwe should go up to the Bottom Road.

 

Hon. UPND Member: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Sing’ombe: The Bottom Road must also be worked on because it is a shortcut for the people of Chirundu to the tourism centre, Livingstone. We want it connected so that our people can easily get to Livingstone instead of coming to Turnpike in Kafue and then driving to Livingstone.

 

Madam Chairperson, I also want to remind the hon. Minister of the Chisekesi/Munyumbwe via Gwembe Road, which requires serious attention.

 

Mr Chaatila: On a point of order, Madam Chairperson.

 

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Chaatila: Madam Chairperson, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to rise on a very serious point of order on the hon. Member on the Floor of the House. My point of order is pursuant to Standing Order No. 65(b), which states as follows:

 

“… ensure that the information he or she provides to the House is factual and verifiable.”

 

Madam Chairperson, my hon. Colleague here started debating very well and was talking about the World Bank project on rural feeder roads in the Southern and Western provinces having not been worked on. Is he in order to not give verifiable information to the effect that the World Bank projects were implemented in all the provinces, except in the Western and Southern provinces? The Patriotic Front (PF)-led Government, a bad Government, started works on the projects in the Northern, Luapula, Eastern, Central, Copperbelt and all the other provinces.

 

Madam Chairperson, I think, this information will aid you as you guide us because we need to verify the projects were implemented.

 

Laughter

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Chaatila: Madam Chairperson, is my colleague in order …

 

Hon. UPND Members: To hide information?

 

Mr Chaatila: ... to hide the important information to the effect that only the Southern and Western provinces were not allocated the roads because of the bad PF Government?

 

I seek your serious ruling Madam Chairperson.

 

Laughter

 

The Chairperson: The hon. Member debating, can you, please, be factual and continue with your debate.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Sing’ombe: Madam Chairperson, I apologise to my colleague. I was just rushing through to ensure that I mentioned everything but, I think, the hon. Minister has heard. This is why I indicated that he needs to investigate what happened to that World Bank project. I think, this one was covered.

 

Madam Chairperson, before the point of order, I was talking about the Chisekesi/Munyumbwe Road, which is supposed to join the Bottom Road. The other road I want to bring to the attention of the hon. Minister is the Mapatizya Road, which is very economic in that many foreigners and our people go to Mapatizya for mining. So, we need to work on it.

 

Madam Chairperson, the Dundumwezi/Chikanta Road –

 

Mr Menyani Zulu: On a point of order, Madam Chairperson.

 

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Menyani Zulu: Madam Chairperson, my point of order is pursuant to Standing Order No. 65.

 

Madam Chairperson, is the hon. Member who just raised a point of order in order to mislead the House and the nation that the World Bank project was implemented in the Eastern Province when it is the able leadership of this Government that has started working on those roads?

 

Katakwe: A point of order, on another point of order?

 

Mr Menyani Zulu: We are thankful to the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development who has just given us extra kilometres. So, let us be factual as we are raise points of order.

 

Laughter

 

The Chairperson: Thank you very much. However, your point of order is not admissible because you raised a point of order on another point of order.  

 

May the hon. Member continue with the debate.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Sing’ombe: Madam Chairperson, to the Mapatizya Road, I want to include the Muzoka/Moyo Road. I ask the hon. Minister to take interest in Moyo because I suppose that around that area, there are some oil deposits. Let him go to Kauba and see what is going on there, especially around September and October. Let him go and investigate that area.

 

Madam Chairperson, we are just lucky to not have lost lives last week when a train derailed on the Livingstone/Mulobezi Railway Line. The hon. Minister needs to ride on that railway line and see how our people are suffering.

 

Madam Chairperson, I just talked about the Kalomo/Dundumwezi Road, but the Kalomo/Chikanta Road was last worked on in 1996, and we impress upon the New Dawn Government the need to work on it, too.

 

Madam Chairperson, lastly, I want to talk about how farmers are suffering in the Southern Province. We want the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock to decentralise the issuance of brand marks. It is of no commercial value for a person to travel from Simungoma to Lusaka to pay a K100 for a brand mark. Why do we not decentralise the issuance of brand marks? In the Southern Province, we need that decentralisation because it is where there are many animals. There is no need to subject our farmers to travelling all the way to Lusaka.

 

With those few words, Madam Chairperson, I thank you.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mung’andu: On a point of order, Madam Chairperson.

 

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Chairperson, I have rarely risen on points of order since we started the Budget Meeting, but I am compelled to do so.

 

Madam Chairperson, I raise this point of order based on Standing Order No. 65, which demands that hon. Members debating on the Floor of this august House present factual information because Parliament is now heard throughout the country, including where I am right now.

 

Madam Chairperson, the hon. Member for Dundumwezi made a very disturbing comparison in terms of development between Choma and Chinsali. It is our wish that whenever our hon. Colleagues on the right debate, they never try to show that there was segregation in this country. I will request Parliament to provide a bus to take these hon. Colleagues on a visit to Chama and Chinsali so that they can compare those places with Choma. Probably, they have not moved.

 

The Chairperson: Order, hon. Member!

 

You are now debating your point of order.

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Chairperson, my point of order is: Is the hon. Member of Parliament who just compared Chinsali, which is a total village, to Choma, which is a well-developed town, in order to mislead the House by comparing a village with a town and, thereby mislead the public into thinking that the previous Government developed Chinsali, leaving out Choma, when Choma is a well-developed city?

 

I seek your serious ruling, Madam Chairperson.

 

The Chairperson: Thank you, hon. Member. I think, you recall that when another point of order was raised about an hon. Member on the Floor not being factual, I guided that the Member should have been factual, and the hon. Member acknowledged my guidance. So, the other hon. Members of Parliament who are yet to debate should try to be factual because the people out there are listening to the debates.

 

Mr Munsanje (Mbabala): Madam Chairperson, thank you so much for allowing the people of Mbabala to debate the Vote for the Southern Province on this day, when we have been hit by more floods. It has been raining heavily in Mbabala Constituency and most parts of Choma. The area is flooded, and we have even lost some lives. This is as a result of negligence in the last ten years because all the bridges in the constituency were not worked on. The negligence has resulted in our losing lives and homes, and the fields being destroyed.

 

Mr Fube: On a point of order, Madam.

 

The Chairperson: Order, hon. Member!

 

Please, focus on the budget for the Southern Province. Let us not deal with other areas. I know that area is very important, but it has its own channel through which it is supposed to be reported.

 

With that guidance in mind, can you focus on the budget for the Southern Province as you continue.

 

Mr Munsanje: Madam Chairperson, thank you so much for that guidance.

 

Madam Chairperson, I definitely support the Vote for the Southern Province, but I want to highlight some of the challenges that need to be worked on, going forward, under the New Dawn Government, and road infrastructure is crucial. As I demonstrated, today, people were not able to cross various bridges in my constituency or the Southern Province as a result of heavy rainfall. So, this is one of the action points in the province.

 

Madam Chairperson, the road from Muyobe to Macha Hospital needs to be tarred and the bridge improved because the road is crucial, as it leads to a very important hospital that is a Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) testing centre for the Southern Province. Further, the hospital looks after expectant mothers with maternal health issues and conducts emergency deliveries, and has moving ambulances.

 

Madam Chairperson, definitely, the province has many needs in the agricultural sector, where we need extension services like veterinary and other services that are currently inadequate or not available, and most camps are closed. We want those camps to be operational. For example, in my constituency, the Dundwa Camp in Mapanza needs to be operational. So, agricultural extension services need to be revitalised to the way they used be back in the Kaunda era, when the officers were in all the areas supporting farmers. We are a farming and animal rearing community. So, we need to see our animals looked after properly.

 

Madam Chairperson, on water and sanitation, almost no village in the Southern Province has no complaint about clean water, yet water is life. So, the whole province needs support in terms of safe water for human beings to drink and have dignity. There is also a need for water for animals. So, the Ministry of Water Development and Sanitation needs to help us by constructing new dams or canals to take water to areas where our animals may not have water. This is a big challenge in the entire province. In my constituency, Nabukoya area, for example, the people need a dam.

 

Madam Chairperson, on security, there have been a lot of cattle theft in the Southern Province this year, and that means that we must improve the security system in the province. We need to fund the Zambia Police Service for it to build new police stations and posts in almost every community to reduce cattle theft and other crimes that are on the increase. We need more officers in that area. Now that officers have graduated from Lilayi Police Training School and other training institutions, I appeal to the Government to deploy more officers to the Southern Province. For example, there are only two officers at Mbabala Police Post and there can, maybe, be four or five officers at Macha Police Post, where there is one officer. That way, we will deal with the issues that affect us. I know that this problem affects other constituencies and the entire province. So, we need security to be improved and our animals secured.

 

Madam Chairperson, let me now talk about the issue of livelihoods. We are appealing for improved support in terms of youths and women empowerment. We are excited that in the New Dawn Government, we have funding for that under the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), but there are also other ministerial programmes. For example, the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Arts is supporting the youths in urban areas with fuel tankers. The youths have also been supported before with buses. What about the youths in rural areas? Our youths in the Southern Province are not supported, yet we have a comparative advantage in agriculture, where they can be supported in a big way, and we can create agriculture-based employment. We also have comparative advantages in many other areas where we can be supported. So, we appeal to the various ministries to ensure that empowerment reaches the rural youths and women so that they, too, can benefit from the national cake. It should not only be the youths in urban areas who benefit from these services.

 

Madam Chairperson, I also want to talk about sexual and reproductive health rights. I commend the Government, especially the hon. Ministers of Education and Health, for supporting comprehensive sexuality education which, we think, is very important to reducing teenage pregnancy and early marriages. In my constituency, we had cases of early pregnancy, and they were reported in the media. The cases are rampant. So, we would like our children, from an early age, to be given age- and culture-appropriate education so that they can get the correct information and make the right decisions on their sexuality – (inaudible).

 

The Chairperson: We have lost the hon. Member.

 

Mr Munsanje: Going forward.

 

Finally, – (inaudible).

 

The Chairperson: Hon. Member, we cannot get you.

 

Mr Munsanje: Madam Chairperson, I hope you can hear me as I finalise on technology and science.

 

The Chairperson: Yes. Please, wind up.

 

Mr Munsanje: Madam Chairperson, I appeal to the Ministry of Technology and Science to take its technological fairs to rural areas. For example, in Mbabala, Markford is inventing various things, and we want to see such children in the entire province supported. Provincial fairs can be held in Namwala, Gwembe, Mazabuka, Choma, Sinazongwe and other areas in the province to support our young people who want to innovate so that they can go into other things.

 

The Chairperson: Order, hon. Member!

 

The hon. Member’s time expired.

 

Mr Mapani (Namwala): Thank you so much, Madam Chairperson, for according me this opportunity to add three or four sentiments to the submission made by the Vice-President on the estimates for the Southern Province.

 

Madam Chairperson, to start with, I thank the New Dawn Government for increasing the amount allocated to the Southern Province in 2022, compared with what it was given in 2021. To me, this shows how serious the New Dawn Government takes the lives of its citizens, and the Government’s intention to improve the living standards of the people in the province and elsewhere. The amount gives us hope that the people in the province are well governed, and that this time around, the people of the Southern Province will have enough to add to the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) that was given by the New Dawn Government.

 

Madam Chairperson, a couple of issues need to be sorted out in our province. Like the previous speaker indicated, the road network in the province is quite poor, and a lot needs to be done. Of course, we have been given the CDF, but we realise that it is not enough to work on the road infrastructure. However, in view of the amount we have been given, and working together with the Ministry of Housing, Infrastructure and Urban Development, we hope to work on a few roads, if not all the roads, in the province so that we improve our road network. It is always very difficult for anyone to talk about development when the road network is bad. So, the road network needs to be improved. There are many economic projects in the Southern Province, but it will be difficult to develop the province because of the poor road network there.

 

Madam Chairperson, the only coal mine in this country is Maamba Collieries Limited, but it is always saddening to look at the road network from Batoka to Maamba. With these allocations, and with the able hon. Minister for Southern Province, we will fight until we achieve what the people of the Southern Province are looking for.

 

Madam Chairperson, we need to improve the manner we look after our livestock. The people of the Southern Province actually depend on agriculture, crop agriculture and livestock farming. So, we need to increase the number of dip tanks in our province to alleviate the suffering of animal farmers. We also need dams because that will ensure that our animals drink clean water, and that alone will help improve the health of animals and increase their number in our province. So, the issue of dip tanks is very important.

 

Madam Chairperson, artificial insemination is another area we need to look at in our province so that we improve on the animal breeds. With the coming in of the New Dawn Government, and considering the allocations that we have been given and that the Southern Province is the biggest producer of beef in this country, we shall work on the insemination programmes throughout the province.

 

Madam Chairperson, I need to indicate that we need to improve our health sector. Of course, we know that there is the Ministry of Health but, with this allocation and the CDF that we were given, we will add value to the lives of our people because we will construct health posts in far-flung areas. This has been our cry for a long time, taking into account the fact that in the past ten years, we were ignored by the people who were in leadership.

 

Madam Chairperson, I thank the President for appointing our able hon. Minister who, in the last few months, has travelled throughout the province and visited most, if not all, the constituencies and familiarised himself with the problems that the people of the Southern Province are faced with. We wish the hon. Minister good health and urge him to continue in the spirit that he has started with. This is the first time we have had a Minister spend most of his time knowing what the people in the Southern Province are going through to enable him to carry out works that the people of the Southern Province are crying for. We thank the appointing authority for giving us an energetic hon. Minister in the province.

 

Madam Chairperson, let me add two or three words on the issue of early marriages. The allocation that we have been given will enable our hon. Minister, through the relevant departments, to go flat out in our province to sensitise families so that they get to know the bad side of early marriages in our country. In our constituencies, we have seen many girls drop out of school and get married, which is actually a bad stumbling block to the development of our country, particularly our province. In view of the allocation that we have been given, it is our hope that the hon. Minister will go to all the corners of our province and sensitise families on the advantages of taking the girl child to school.

 

Madam Chairperson, with those few words, I thank you.

 

The Minister for Southern Province (Mr Mweetwa): Madam Chairperson, I thank you for the opportunity to wind up debate on the budget for the Southern Province.

 

Madam Chairperson, let me begin by thanking all the debaters who have given their views, namely Hon. Sing’ombe, Member of Parliament for Dundumwezi; Hon. Mapani, Member of Parliament for Namwala; and Hon. Munsanje, Member of Parliament for Mbabala.

 

Madam Chairperson, my job is simply to say on behalf of the Government that we have taken note of the various concerns that the hon. Members of Parliament have raised for and on behalf of their constituents and the province.

 

Madam Chairperson, Hon. Sing’ombe raised very fundamental and important issues to do with the funding that has recently been rolled out for the upgrading or grading of our feeder roads, which is currently being undertaken by the Zambia National Service (ZNS). Five or six months ago, we were not aware of  the funding, until we changed the Government.

 

Madam Chairperson, in response to the hon. Member’s discourse on some parts of the country that had benefited from the funding while other provinces lagged behind, some quarters in this House said, “Yes, we did that because we were in power.” The New Dawn Administration, unlike some sectarian Government whose Members of Parliament were restricted from a region of this country, was voted for across the ten provinces. Even in Luapula, where we do not have a Member of Parliament, His Excellency the President won in constituencies like Chienge. So, he is nationally accepted.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mweetwa: Therefore, his Administration’s approach is to look at the nation, not at a constituency or province. So, the rolling out of developmental projects will not look at a province or a constituency, but the entire nation. As Provincial Minister for Southern Province, I am reluctant to vouch for the Southern Province alone because when you are a Member of Parliament and a Minister, you are a leader for all the people of this country. Therefore, I thank Hon. Sing’ombe for bringing the various issues to do with the various roads in the province.

 

Madam Chairperson, we will be asking the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to look at us favourably as we solicit for funding to upgrade the roads, being mindful that he is looking at the entire country and its ten provinces and, therefore, at many roads. Therefore, we do not expect that only our roads will be given attention; we will be mindful that our mandate is to develop the entire country.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mweetwa: Madam Chairperson, I also take the opportunity to indicate that I value the submissions of Hon. Sing’ombe regarding the decentralisation of certain services, such as brand marks to, at least, the provincial, if not the district, level. In agreement with him, I also take the opportunity to reiterate that in the first quarter of 2022, the Southern Province will open a Deeds Registry Office at the Provincial Headquarters to ensure that those looking for title deeds are able to access them closer to home. That, we believe, will be in line with the New Dawn Administration’s genuine application and implementation of decentralisation; taking power and resource closer to the people. His Excellency is walking the talk.

 

Madam Chairperson, the hon. Member of Parliament for Mbabala has raised issues that are critical; the state roads, especially the Chilala/Ntambo/Macha Road. There is a very important health institution in Mbabala that requires better connectivity in terms of a road network. So, we recognise this issue.

 

Madam Chairperson, I thank the hon. Members for Mbabala and Namwala in acknowledging that the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) has been increased from K1.6 million to K25.7 million and recognising therein some solutions to the challenges that hon. Members of Parliament have brought to the Floor of this House. As a Provincial Administration, like all other Provincial Administrations in this country, we have been guided that as we go out with the increased CDF, in all the constituencies, we must prioritise the sinking of boreholes for our people to access clean and safe drinking water, and investing in damming streams and water harvesting to ensure that there is sufficient clean water for animals.

 

Madam Chairperson, I appreciate the comments made by the debaters. I recognise that going forward, my success is dependent on the co-operation that I will get from all the hon. Members of Parliament, as ours is a shared vision; it is about team work.

 

Madam Chairperson, let me end on a very sad note by confirming that we have lost a life, at least, or lives today in Mbabala Constituency arising from the heavy downpour in Choma District, where a number of dams burst their banks. Currently, we have asked the fire services people from our councils to go and retrieve some of our people who are currently in trees. Such is the severity of the rainfall that has battered Choma District. Save for the loss of life, however, we are grateful that the rainfall has come on time, as we now stand ready to feed the nation again.

 

On that note, I beg the House to support the Vote for the Southern Province.

 

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

 

The Chairperson: Thank you so much. We are very sorry for the people of Mbabala, in particular, and Choma, in general.

 

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Chairperson, I thank all the hon. Members who have debated the provinces. I take as mine some of the debate by the last person who spoke, the hon. Minister for Southern Province, who said that if we look at the Budget, we will actually see what the New Dawn Government stands for. The New Dawn Government stands for unity, and unity starts with the proper and equal distribution of resources. This is how people will feel equally worthy, and this is what the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning has done.

 

Madam Chairperson, if you look the statement that I made, you will see that resources were equally distributed to all the provinces. Each province will set its priorities within a particular sector but, at least, each will have received from the national cake that which is due to it because every province is important. 

 

Madam Chairperson, this is, indeed, an increased Budget, but let me say that it is not just increased in terms of allocations to the provinces. People should not look at the provincial budget as the only money that has been sent to the provinces. Under decentralisation, you will see the provinces receive other funds under the different sectors. So, we are very grateful that this Budget is tackling many things despite the difficulties that we had. It is a Budget that is meant to see our nation prosper and united, because that is who we are.

 

Madam Chairperson, I just want to say, ‘Thank you’. The concerns raised will be looked at. As we continue to have more money come into the Treasury, other issues will be tackled.

 

Madam Chairperson, I thank you. I also thank the hon. Members who debated for supporting the provinces under the Office of the President.

 

VOTE 88 – (Office of the President – Muchinga Province – K63,441,958)

 

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane): Madam Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendments on page 734, under Table 6: Programme Outputs:

 

1. by the deletion of paragraph 1; and
2. in paragraph 2, by the deletion of the figure “500” and the substitution therefor of the figure “590”.

 

Amendment agreed to. Vote amended accordingly.

 

Vote 88, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

Votes 94, 95, 96, 97 and 98 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

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[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

(Progress reported)

 

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MOTION

 

ADJOURNMENT

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I beg to move the House do now adjourned.

 

Question put and agreed to.

 

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The House adjourned at 1221 hours until 0900 hours on Wednesday, 22^nd December, 2021.

 

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