Wednesday, 23^rd March, 2022

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

The House met at 1430 hours

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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ANNOUNCEMENT BY MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER

SESSIONAL COMMITTEE – MEMBERSHIP

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, following the disciplinary action against Hon. B. Mundubile, MP, and Hon. C. C. Kang’ombe, MP, which resulted in their suspension from the House, and their subsequent removal from the Committee on Privileges and Absences, I wish to inform you that in accordance with Article 80 of the Constitution, and Standing Order No. 166(5), I have made changes to the membership of the Committee on Privileges and Absences as follows:

HOUSE-KEEPING COMMITTEES

Committee on Privileges, Absences and Support Services

Mr A. C. Mumba, MP (to replace Hon. B. Mundubile, MP)

Mr J. Chibuye, MP (to replace Hon. C. C. Kang’ombe, MP)

I thank you.

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RULINGS BY MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER

FIVE PATRIOTIC FRONT PARTY HON. MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT WHO PARTICIPATED IN THE DISRUPTION OF THE PROCEEDINGS OF THE HOUSE ON TUESDAY, 30^TH NOVEMBER, 2021, BUT WERE EXCLUDED FROM THE RULING OF 15^TH MARCH, 2022, DUE TO THEIR ABSENCE FROM THE HOUSE, FOLLOWING A RULING RENDERED BY THE HON. MADAM SPEAKER ON 7^TH DECEMBER, 2021

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, the House will recall that on Tuesday, 15^th March, 2022, I rendered a ruling which resulted in the suspension of thirty Patriotic Front (PF) hon. Members of Parliament, for participating in a protest in the Chamber on Tuesday, 30^th November, 2021. In my ruling, I excluded five PF hon. Members of Parliament who had participated in the protest, but were at the time barred from participating in the Business of the House. This followed a ruling by the Hon. Madam Speaker, rendered on Tuesday, 7^th December, 2021, in which all hon. Members of Parliament whose seats had been nullified by the High Court, but had appealed to the Constitutional Court (ConCourt), were barred from participating in the proceedings of the House until the nullification of their seats was overturned by the ConCourt.

The following are the hon. Members who were excluded from the ruling:

Mr T. C. Chewe, MP;

Mr B. C. Lusambo, MP;

Mr M. Kafwaya, MP;

Mr J. Malanji, MP; and

 Mr L. Simumba, MP.

Hon. Members, on Tuesday, 22^nd March, 2022, the ConCourt rendered a judgment in the matter of the Law Association of Zambia (LAZ) versus Attorney-General 2021/CCZ/0051. In the judgment, the court held that an hon. Member of Parliament whose election had been nullified by the High Court, but had appealed to the ConCourt by operation of the law retained his or her seat pending determination of the appeal by the ConCourt. Following this judgment, all hon. Members of Parliament who had appealed against the nullification of their elections returned to the House on Tuesday, 22^nd March, 2022.

In view of this, and in line with the ruling in which thirty hon. Members of the PF who participated in the protest in the Chamber were suspended for thirty days, I now put the question in accordance with Section 28(2) of the National Assembly (Powers and Privileges) Act, which requires a resolution of the House to suspend an hon. Member from the House.

Question that the House suspends the five PF hon. Members of Parliament who participated in the protest in the Chamber for a period of thirty days from today, Wednesday, 23^rd March to Thursday, 21^st April, 2022 put and agreed to.

Hon. Members, before you take the walk of shame, I wish to inform you that in accordance with Section 28(3) of the National Assembly (Powers and Privileges) Act, during the period of your suspension, you shall not – 

(a)    enter the precincts of the Assembly and this extends to the National Assembly Motel;

(b)    participate in any activity of the Assembly or any Committee that you are assigned in your capacity as hon.

        Member of Parliament; and

(c)    you shall not be paid the salary or allowance that you are entitled to as an hon. Member.

I now order Mr T. Chewe, MP, Mr, B. C. Lusambo, MP, Mr M. Kafwaya, MP, Mr J. Malanji, MP, and Mr L. Simumba, MP, to immediately leave the proceedings of the House on a thirty days suspension. Those in the Chamber should leave through the main entrance of the Chamber. Those attending from Committee rooms should immediately leave the Committee rooms. Those logged in to the proceedings via Zoom should immediately log out. I further, instruct the Information Communication Technology (ICT) officers to ensure that all the five suspended hon. Members are logged out of the system.

I thank you.

Mr Chewe, Mr Lusambo, Mr Kafwaya, Mr Malanji and Mr Simumba left the Assembly Chamber.

COMPLAINT BY MR G. G. NKOMBO, HON. MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT, AGAINST MR MUNIR ZULU, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR LUMEZI CONSTITUENCY, FOR MAKING FALSE ALLEGATIONS AGAINST HIM ON KBN TELEVISION, BASED ON A MINISTERIAL STATEMENT HE ISSUED ON THE STATUS OF DEBTS ACCRUED ON FEEDER AND TOWNSHIP ROADS

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, this ruling is on the complaint by Mr G. G. Nkombo, hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development, against Mr Munir Zulu, Member of Parliament for Lumezi Constituency, for making false allegations against him on Kenmark Broadcasting Network (KBN) Television, based on a ministerial statement he issued on the status of debts accrued on feeder and township roads.

At this point, I order Mr Munir Zulu, Member of Parliament for Lumezi to go and stand behind the Bar of the House. I also instruct the Serjeant-At-Arms to take the Speaker’s mace and stand behind Mr Munir Zulu, MP.

Mr Munir Zulu, MP was escorted to the Bar by the Serjeant-At-Arms. 

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to inform the House that on Thursday, 2^nd December, 2021, my office received a letter of complaint from Mr G. G. Nkombo, hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development, against Mr Munir Zulu, MP. In the complaint, Mr G. G. Nkombo, MP, alleged that on Wednesday, 1^st December, 2021, Mr Munir Zulu, MP, made false allegations against him on KBN Television based on a ministerial statement on feeder roads that he delivered in the House.

Mr G. G. Nkombo, MP, explained that Mr Munir Zulu, MP, accused him of having laid false information before the House, and of being a liar. He added that this had injured his persona. The Hon. Madam Speaker referred the complaint to the Committee on Privileges and Absences for consideration.

Hon. Members, in line with parliamentary practice and procedure, and in accordance with the rules of natural justice, the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly wrote to Mr Munir Zulu, MP, requesting him to state his side of the story. However, despite numerous reminders, Mr Munir Zulu, MP, did not respond to the letter. Furthermore, the Office of the Clerk wrote to KBN Television requesting the station for footage of the interview. The station availed the office with the footage. The complaint raises the issue of an hon. Member making allegations imputing a motive to questioning the character, or reputation of another hon. Member.

Hon. Members, as you are aware, the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders of 2021, regulate the proceedings of this House. In this regard, Standing Order No. 207 states:

“207.    Contempt of the House

(1) Contempt of the House refers to an act, omission or conduct, which obstructs or impedes either the House or members or officer in the discharge of their duties.

 (2) In addition to instances under Section nineteen of the National Assembly (Powers and Privileges) Act, the following may constitute contempt of the House:

(a) a speech or writing reflecting negatively on the House or members.”

Additionally, eminent authors M. N. Kaul and S. L. Shakdher, in their book entitled Practice and Procedure of Parliament, at page 304, state as follows:

“It is a breach of privilege and contempt of the House to make speeches, or to print or publish any libels, reflecting on the character or proceedings of the House or its Committees, or any member of the House for or relating to his character or conduct as a member of Parliament ...”

“… Speeches and writings reflecting on the House or its Committees or members are punished by the House as contempt on the principle that such acts ‘tend to obstruct the Houses in the performance of their functions by diminishing the respect due to them.’”

From the foregoing authorities, it is clear that it is a breach of Parliamentary privilege and contempt of the House for an hon. Member to make a speech reflecting negatively on the character of another hon. Member.

The Committee on Privileges and Absences met and deliberated on the matter on Thursday, 10^th March, 2022. During its deliberations, the Committee had recourse to the relevant KBN Television footage, and a copy of the ministerial statement made by Mr G. G. Nkombo, MP, on which Mr Munir Zulu, MP’s allegations were based. Mr G. G. Nkombo, MP, and Mr Munir Zulu, MP, also appeared before the Committee. Additionally, the Acting Chief Executive Officer of KBN Television Station, Mr Tato Simaataa, appeared to authenticate the video footage.

Hon. Members, after considering the television footage, a copy of the ministerial statement, and submissions from the two parties, the Committee established the following:

(a)   in his ministerial statement, Mr G. G. Nkombo, MP, said that between 2016 and 2021, the Government had

       entered into contracts for 1,909 km of feeder roads in the Eastern Province;

(b)   during his interview on KBN Television, Mr Munir Zulu, MP, accused Mr G. G. Nkombo, MP, of lying on the

       Floor of the House that the Eastern Province received 1,909 km of feeder roads in the last ten years; and

(c)   despite the Committee bringing it to Mr Munir Zulu, MP’s attention that his statement was at variance with

       the statement in the ministerial statement, because the ministerial statement referred to contracted

       kilometres and not completed kilometres, Mr Munir Zulu, MP, insisted that Mr G. G. Nkombo, MP, had

        presented false information to the House.

Hon. Members, the Committee, therefore, found that the statement by Mr Munir Zulu, MP, on KBN Television, that the hon. Minister had said that the Eastern Province had received 1,909 km of feeder roads was at variance with the hon. Minister’s statement that he made on the Floor of the House, that the Government had entered into contracts for 1,909 km for the Eastern Province. The Committee, thus, found that Mr Munir Zulu, MP’s statement on KBN Television that Mr G. G. Nkombo, MP, had lied on the Floor of the House was untrue. The Committee further found that Mr Munir Zulu, MP’s continued reference during the interview to Mr G. G. Nkombo, MP, as having lied to the House, had the potential to cause irreparable damage to Mr G. G. Nkombo, MP’s persona. The Committee, in this regard, found Mr Munir Zulu, MP, in breach of parliamentary privilege and in contempt of the House.

Hon. Members, in arriving at the punishment to mete out to Mr Munir Zulu, MP, the Committee noted that the offence committed by Mr Munir Zulu, MP, was serious because the statement made on KBN Television was broadcast to the entire nation.

In addition, the Committee considered the fact that despite being guided that the statement had accused Mr G. G. Nkombo, MP, as it was different from the one he had made in his ministerial statement, Mr Munir Zulu, MP, was adamant that Mr G. G. Nkombo, MP, had given false information to the House. Further, Mr Munir Zulu did not show any remorse for his conduct. The Committee therefore, resolved that Mr Munir Zulu, MP, be directed to apologise to the Assembly, in accordance with Section 28(1)(d) of the National Assembly (Powers and Privileges) Act. Therefore, in accordance with the resolution of the Committee on Privileges and Absences, I now direct you, Mr Munir Zulu, MP, to render an apology to the House, and to Hon. G. G. Nkombo, MP, in particular.

I thank you.

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PERSONAL STATEMENT

APOLOGY BY THE MEMBER FOR LUMEZI, HON. MUNIR ZULU

Mr Munir Zulu (Lumezi): – (inaudible) from feeder and township road projects that have been implemented from 2016 – (inaudible) .

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Mr Munir Zulu: This was a lie.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order Hon. Member!

We are not here for you to offer a statement. You are required to render an apology. You have a copy with you there. If you do not want to offer that apology, say so instead of reading your own script.

Interruptions

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, I am not audible enough. Where is the microphone?

Madam Speaker, let me permit this House to pronounce my name correctly.

I, Munir Zulu, in my personal capacity as hon. Member of Parliament for Lumezi Constituency, do unreservedly apologise to you, Madam Speaker, and to this august House for the remarks made on Kenmark Broadcasting Network (KBN) Television against Hon. G. G. Nkombo, Minister of Local Government and Rural Development. I assure you, Madam Speaker, and this august House that from now on, I shall endeavour to ensure that I use avenues available to ask hon. Members in seeking clarity, or bringing ...

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, order!

Mr Munir Zulu:… to the attention of the Executive, issues affecting the people we represent in to the House incompliance – (inaudible).

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

I am sure you have a script before you. Please, let us not waste time. If you do not want to read the script that is given to you, just say so instead of bringing in your own script, which is not permitted.

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, I always have problems reading a speech that I do not own. This is not my speech; it has just been given to me. It is not my speech. So, if I omit a word –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Well, the rule of the House is that you are supposed to be given a speech. This is not the first this is happening in the House.

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, we agree that we are –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hold on, hon. Member. Let us not start exchanging words. What I am just asking you is, if you do not agree to read what has been given to you, say so because we are wasting time. We want to proceed with other –

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, your guidance is fair enough. I will read what has been given to me even though it is not my speech.

Interruptions

Mr Munir Zulu: So, let me read it. Permit me to read then. It is not my speech. I do not own it. Let me read it.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Can you continue, hon. Member. Can you read now from the beginning?

Mr Munir Zulu: Thank you, I will read it.

Madam Speaker, let me read the preamble of this speech, which is an apology by Mr M. Zulu, MP.

Madam Speaker, I, Munir Zulu, in my personal capacity as Member of Parliament for Lumezi Constituency, do unreservedly apologise to you, and to this august House, for the remarks I made on KBN Television against Hon. G. G Nkombo, Minister of Local Government and Rural Development.

Madam Speaker ‘comma’, having reflected on my conduct ‘comma’, which amounts to a breach of parliamentary privileges and contempt of the House ‘comma’, I wish to sincerely apologise to Hon. G. G. Nkombo ‘comma’, MP ‘comma’, for the injury caused to his persona that my statement on KBN Television may have caused.

Madam Speaker, paragraph three reads and I quote,

 “I assure you ‘comma’, Madam ‘comma’, and this august House that ‘comma’, ...”

Hon. Member: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Munir Zulu:

“... I shall endeavour to ensure that I use the avenues available to us hon. Members in seeking clarity or bringing to the attention of the executive issues affecting the people we represent in the House, in compliance within rules of this august House, period.”

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Thank you so much. You can resume your seat.

Opposition Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munir Zulu: I am non-aligned.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I have permitted the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to make a ministerial statement.

Hon. Member: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member! You were supposed to indicate when the hon. Member who was standing behind the bar was going to resume his seat. It shall be done tomorrow. The hon. Minister is already on the Floor. Hon. Minister, you may continue.

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MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS

EIGHTH NATIONAL DEVELOPMENT PLAN (2022-2026)

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane): Madam Speaker, I wish to thank you for this opportunity to provide an update to this august House and to the nation at large, on the status of the preparation of the Eighth National Development Plan (8NDP).

Madam Speaker, a national development plan is a document which describes how a country is going to achieve its goals in different aspects of development and its important areas are as follows: economy, politics, governance, social and many others.

Madam Speaker, the development plan does provide details on the specifics of what has to be done. For example, a plan can provide details by stating what will be done in economic sectors like mining, manufacturing and agriculture during its life. The starting point of any plan is a vision. You must first envision whatever you wish to plan. You must imagine it in order to plan it.

Madam Speaker, the national vision for Zambia was already formulated in 2006. In that vision, Zambia will become a prosperous middle-income nation by 2030. Examples of middle (upper) income countries include Algeria, South Africa, Malaysia, Brazil, Thailand, Mauritius and many others. In broad terms, this means that by 2030, the average Zambian would be enjoying the same quality of life enjoyed today by residents of the countries that I have just mentioned. Provided there is no much iniquity in the country, that would entail decent living with better incomes and good access to social services than is the case today.

Madam Speaker, from 2006, when the national vision was set, Zambia has developed and executed three national development plans, namely: The Fifth National Development Plan (5NDP), which ran from 2006 to 2010; Sixth National Development Plan (6NDP) and its revised version of 2011 to 2016; and the Seventh National Development Plan (7NDP), which ran from 2017 to 2021. The 8NDP will, therefore, be the fourth plan to be implemented towards the realisation of the Zambian national vision. In our quest to realise the vision, we have been implementing as building blocks, a series of five-year national development plans, which I just mentioned. The forthcoming eighth plan will continue this process.

Madam Speaker, the formulation of the 8NDP has been in accordance with the National Planning and Budgeting Act No. 1 of 2020. This Act, in turn, fulfils the constitutional requirements under Article 205, which provides for a participatory and integrated national planning and budgeting process. It also stipulates the framework for the participation of both state and non-state actors in the planning and budgeting process.

Madam Speaker, political parties such as the United Party for National Development (UPND) get elected into office because of the promises they make to the voters. This means that even as the Government listens to stakeholders for the purpose of preparing a development plan, the governing party must also infuse into the plan, measures required to realise the promises made to the voters. That is what we are doing.

Madam Speaker, I will now provide the status on the formulation of the 8NDP. The development of the 8NDP has reached an advanced stage with the draft now in place. The draft is based on the strategic policy direction provided by His Excellency the President as highlighted in his speech delivered on 10^th September, 2021, during the Official Opening of the First Session of the Thirteenth National Assembly.

In addition, the draft reflects submissions made during country-wide consultations as outlined earlier. The submissions came mainly through the District Development Coordinating Committees (DDCCs), Provincial Development Coordinating Committees (PDCCs), Cluster Advisory Groups (CAGs) and National Development Coordinating Committee (NDCC).

Madam Speaker, following the consultative process, convergence was reached to have four strategic development themes for the 8NDP, namely:

    (a)  economic transformation and job creation;

 

   (b)  human development;

 

   (c)  environmental sustainability; and

 

  (d)  good governance environment.

 

Madam Speaker, it is these development themes that shall be pursued over the life of the 8NDP. Our legislative agenda, administrative reforms and annual budgets over the period will reflect the priorities to promote the themes that I have just outlined. Development co-operating partners will also be directed to channel their assistance in the same areas so that they complement the efforts of Zambia, and not introduce their own separate agendas.

Madam Speaker, , in order to ensure that interventions in the 8NDP are responsive to the development needs of the country and its people, the Government is currently facilitating the review and validation of the draft plan by stakeholders, before submitting it to Cabinet for approval, next week. Thereafter, I will bring the plan to this august House for approval. As I indicated already, the 8NDP will be the basis for the development of all medium-term and annual budgets for the period 2022 to 2026.

 Madam Speaker, decentralisation will be an important aspect of the plan. This approach will ensure that people will own their development agenda. The people, including those from wards, districts and provinces, have provided input into the draft 8NDP. In the same vein, once the plan has been approved, each province and district will be required to formulate implementation plans, which will provide details in relation to the specific interventions that relate to the needs and comparative advantage of each locality. The increased Constituency Development Fund (CDF) starting from 2022 will fund most of the interventions that will be identified at local levels.

Madam Speaker, finally, it is important to note that there has been a small gap of time between the end of the 7NDP and the start of the 8NDP. This has been caused by the fact that when the 7NDP came to an end at the end of 2021, the successor which is the 8NDP had not yet been completed. This then raises the question regarding the development agenda which the Government has been implementing during the intervening period which runs from January, 2022 to the time when the 8NDP will be launched. This could cover a period not exceeding six months.

Madam Speaker, this matter has been addressed as follows: Firstly, we have to recognise that Zambia now faces a very serious external debt crisis. This crisis has been responsible for most of the undesirable economic development we have been witnessing in recent years, such as the drop in the value of the Kwacha, rising inflation, loss of formal sector jobs and lack of sufficient money to invest in social sectors such as the recruitment of teachers, health workers and others.

Madam Speaker, even before the 8NDP is fully prepared, everyone accepts that the problem of excessive indebtedness must be resolved if Zambia will have a chance to improve her economy. It is, therefore, given that debt resolution must be an important part of the 8NDP. If anything, it is one of the most important tasks in the development plan that is coming.

Madam Speaker, arising from the reality above, the Government has raced ahead to implement programmes that will make the country get out of the debt crisis. One of the most critical aspects of the 8NDP is already being implemented even before the plan is officially launched.

Secondly, it is a well-known fact that some important aspirations in the 7NDP were either partially realised or not realised at all. Many of those aspirations remain paramount and will definitely, be part of the 8NDP and beyond. Examples include, hiring of teachers and health workers, building classrooms and health facilities, fixing feeder roads, providing clean water, and creating job opportunities. The Government has already gone ahead to implement them without waiting for the formal launch of the 8NDP. In doing so, the Government has actually leaped forward to implement important aspects of the forth coming 8NDP.

Madam Speaker, from the explanation just provided, you will realise that those who claim that the United Party for National Development (UPND) has no plan for reviving the Zambian economy, are saying so out of lack of understanding. They should know that the Government is already well-ahead resolving the biggest economic problem facing Zambia today, which is the crushing debt crisis. The previous Government did not only cause this problem but also, failed to solve it because it had no workable plan. This Government is solving the problem because it has a workable plan. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, at the time the previous Government was leaving office, inflation was high and was rising every month. From the time this Government took over, the rate of inflation has been falling every month without exception. This is happening because there is a plan to stabilise prices and to get back to the single digit inflation by the end of the year, as it was for the last two decades.

Madam Speaker, a number of children were failing to go to secondary schools because their parents were unable to pay school fees. The UPND’s plan has always been to make education free. This is now being achieved up to the secondary school level. This plan has been there and within a short period of time, it has been achieved. This has been done within five months of the UPND Government being in office.

Madam Speaker, some people now claim that free education has brought a problem because all of a sudden, attendance in schools has ballooned, resulting in classroom space and desks being inadequate.

Madam Speaker, our plan was to have high attendance of children in schools. We want our children to be in school and not outside school. Even if this appears to be a problem to some people, there is a definite plan to provide a solution. The enhanced CDF will enable us build more classrooms, procure more desks and other materials. These activities will be done by the local communities and they will get paid for that. In this regard, those who are accusing the Government of having no plan must instead marvel. This is not only a mere plan but a unique onein the sense that it will not only solve the education problem but also, find a solution to the problem of lack of jobs especially in rural areas.

Madam Speaker, with enhanced CDF, hundreds and thousands of rural communities will be engaged in profitable activities that will enable them to build their own classrooms, teachers’ houses, clinics, police stations and sink boreholes. This job creation in rural areas is something that has never happened before. The money to put in people’s pockets, in a manner that has never been done before in this country, is there. The money is there and the first instalment of the CDF will be released at the end of this month, March, 2022. Madam Speaker, this is genius.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, the rural job creation will complement the efforts that will be announced in the coming few weeks, in which the entire Government system will re-engineer its interface with the private sector. The intention is to massively ease the way of doing business in the country. This way, many investments will follow.

Madam Speaker, as I conclude, let me repeat that the Government will, as indicated when I presented the 2022 Budget, bring the draft 8NDP for approval by this august House during this session of the National Assembly.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Andeleki: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Andeleki: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for allowing the people of Katombola to raise a point of order.

Madam Speaker, a point of order that I am raising is premised on Standing Order No. 203(1) and (2), and it is on the hon. Member of Parliament for Lumezi.

Madam Speaker, I am aware that a point of order must be raised contemporaneously, but I have been indicating to do so without getting a response from your end.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: What is your point of order?

Mr Andeleki: Madam Speaker, my point of order is premised on Standing Order No. 203(1) and (2), as read with Standing Order No. 204, which addresses issues of Parliamentary etiquette and decorum.

Madam Speaker, I seek your ruling on whether the hon. Member for Lumezi is not in contempt of the House because while he was standing behind the Bar, he made running commentaries and threatened the Serjeant-At-Arms, saying, “Today, you will need enough security.”

Hon. PF Member: What is your point of order?

Hon. Government Members: Wait!

Mr Andeleki: Madam Speaker, the conduct of the hon. Member of Parliament is in conflict with the decorum of the House. An hon. Member of the standing of my former student, Hon. Munir Zulu, if not regulated, can bring this House into disrepute. He threatened the Serjeant-At-Arms by indicating that she would need adequate security to handle him.

Madam Speaker, I seek your ruling on whether the hon. Member is not in contempt of the House.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I reserve my ruling to enable me and, maybe, the Committee on Privileges and Absences to study the matter.

Hon. Members are now free to ask questions of points of clarification on the ministerial statement given by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning.

Mr Sampa (Matero): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank you for this opportunity.

Madam Speaker, finally, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning has brought the Eighth National Development Planning (8NDP) to the House. The Seventh National Development Planning (7NDP)  –

Interruptions

MrSampa: We are here to talk. The 7NDP expired in December, 2021, which is six months ago. This means that the country has just been in chipantepante.Chimbwi no plan. There has been no plan. The 8NDP is welcome, hon. Minister. I am happy to learn from the hon. Minister that it will be consultative, which means that it will involve us, the locals and not based on foreigners. The only thing that is disappointing in the hon. Minister’s statement is that he continues to blame the Patriotic Front (PF) Government for the debt it left. The PF is an old wife that has been divorced by its husband (the Zambian people). It is gone. 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

What is your point of clarification?

Mr Sampa: This new Government is what the Zambians have married.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, can you please go straight to the question. We are not debating the ministerial statement.

Mr Sampa:  Madam Speaker, this was in the statement. The hon. Minister mentioned those words and I am just repeating. He said in the statement that the debt that the PF Government left six months ago is very high.  That is why the Zambian people agreed to chase the PF and put them (the UPND) so that they could make the Zambian people pregnant with fruits of what they promised, but they keep referring to –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

I think now you are debating the statement. For the last time, what is your question, hon. Member?

Mr Sampa: I am here to talk and not to sit.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

You are not supposed to exchange words with me.

Interruptions

Mr Sampa: Madam Speaker, can the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs  –

Laughter

Mr Sampa: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, Dr Musokotwane, said that the debt is huge and that, that is why we need the 8NDP and a local plan that will involve us, Zambians. Can he confirm that he is now agreeing with what was said when he presented the Budget, that a foreign plan of borrowing from the International Monetary Fund (IMF) was not sustainable? Is it true that the IMF has refused to release the US$1.5 billion because there is no 8NDP? Does it mean the 2022 Budget will collapse because it depends on the IMF US$1.5 billion loan?  It is all over the international media that the IMF has changed its mind. Is this why the Government wants to bring this locally made plan which is the 8NDP?  I have now finished posing my question.

Laughter

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, clearly, I think there was an attempt to debate and not to ask a question. Since insinuations and accusations were being made, I think I am also entitled to respond to them.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member stated that it is all over in the media that the International Monetary Fund (IMF) has declined to give Zambia a plan in the same manner it did to the PF Government from 2016 to 2021, for five years. That social media information the hon. Member is quoting is obviously generated by people from the PF because there is no single grain of truth about it. It is totally false.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: It is fake news because we are progressing very well …

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: … with the IMF. I can assure him without any doubt that the programme will do through by mid this year without any problems. We are managing things properly and co-operating partners are appreciating what we are doing.

Madam Speaker, I would like to rest assure my colleague over there to be calm and feel comfortable that the IMF programme is coming without any doubt, whatsoever.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mung’andu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, my point of order is in pursuant to Standing Order No. 65, which states that members debating or presenting information on the Floor of this House must be factual and that they should bring verifiable information. Was the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, in order to state that the former Government did not have any plan to work on the national economy, when he is fully aware that the contraction of debt, among many other measures, that he found in the ministry, was initiated by the former Government, the Patriotic Front (PF)? It was the former Government that said that all projects which were less than 80 per cent complete would not be completed as a way of consolidating or reducing fiscal expenditure.

Madam Speaker, there was the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework (MTEF) that was put in place to address the economic situation of this country. The hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning has that information. Was he in order to mislead the nation that the former Government did not leave any plan or measure in place to ensure that the current situation in terms of debt is addressed?

I seek your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker:  Hon. Member, from what you have said, it is like you have debated your point of order.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: You have given us so much information. Instead of just raising a simple point of order, you have provided all the information to the House. So, your point of order is not admissible.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mabumba (Mwense): Madam Speaker, listening to what the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning is saying in terms of debt portfolio, it is well-known that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government contracted about US$12 billion. In the 2022 Budget, in terms of what the hon. Minister presented, there is about US$4 billion that is going to be contracted to finance the Budget. He says that the aspiration of the 8NDP is to deal with debt. So, in the context of the US$12 billion which was accrued in the ten years or eleven years plus, versus the US$4 billion for the 2022 Budget, what comfort is the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning giving the people of Zambia, in terms of how the Government intends to restructure the debt?

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, I thank – Was that Hon. Mabumba?

Hon. Members: Yes!

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, I think it is important for the hon. Member to understand what we are talking about because he says that in the 2022 Budget, this Government has borrowed US$2 billion. There is no single truth in that. There is none, whatsoever.

Hon. UPND Members: Shame!

Interruptions

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, let me repeat. The external financing – He should not confuse external financing with borrowing. They may not necessarily be the same. Under financing in the 2022 Budget, there is US$1.4 billion that the IMF gave to us. This is not a debt but free money.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: It is external financing but not a loan, please. Let us not confuse ourselves.

Interruptions

Dr Musokotwane: The rest of the money, which is US$500 million was contracted by the PF Government.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Dr Musokotwane: We then had to decide. We felt that if some of the projects that the PF Government contracted were cancelled at certain stages –

Interruptions

Dr Musokotwane: Are you paying attention? If those projects were cancelled at certain stages, they would be left hanging. So, we felt that since we were carrying those loans over, we needed to continue funding the infrastructure that was left. The US$2 billion that the hon. Member is talking about as a loan acquired in the 2022 Budget does not exist.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: It is part of the propaganda …

Hon. UPND Members: PF!

Dr Musokotwane: …that we always listen to. That loan does not exist. The hon. Member is free to talk to the officials at the Ministry of Finance and National Planning and they will tell him the truth. He is wrong.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mabeta (Kankoyo): Madam Speaker, I was just reading the report by the Ministry of Finance and National Planning on the Government Expenditure Pattern for February. The Republic of Zambia raised K6 billion from its domestic revenue but I was a bit disturbed to see that from the K6 billion, K3 billion was spent on salaries. The other K3 billion was spent on servicing the debt. So, how are we going to achieve developmental goals if whatever we are earning is just being spent on salaries and debts?

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, it looks like my colleague is going into details of what I have not discussed this afternoon. I mean those amounts he has stated. The point is this: When he complains that there is too much money going to service the debt, I think he is confirming what I have said this afternoon and before. One of the most critical aspects in the next plan is to solve this debt problem that our colleagues left. Yes, they left office but the aftermath of that problem still lives with us today. It is up to us to solve that problem. We are not complaining but telling the truth.

Madam Speaker, yes, a lot of money goes to debt service but this is why precisely, even before the plan comes on the table, we need to recognise the problem. It is like having an experienced doctor who tells a patient that he suspects what the problem is but instead, tells a patient to go for an X-ray. This is a doctor who prescribes medicine to a patient on the basis of what he suspects is a problem.  This is what we are doing.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mung’andu(Chama South): Madam Speaker, worldwide, there is no country that does not owe. Even at individual level, Madam Speaker, if we were to check, we would find that all of us owe ...

Mr Muchima: To whom?

Mr Mung’andu: ...the banks or individuals. It depends on where one chooses to borrow from.

Mr Mabeta: What is your question?

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Let us give him a chance to ask a question.

Interruptions

Mr Mung’andu: This country, Madam Speaker, borrowed and…

Hon. Member: Even at Granddads, you can borrow.

Mr Mung’andu: …we can even see it. Madam Speaker, you will agree with me that Lusaka is not what it was in the past. We are moving so fast. Our streets are lit. At my village, where I come from, in Chama, for the first time, people are able to communicate using cellular phones.

Mr Mbangweta: Is that so?

Mr Mung’andu: I know that in Nkeyema, for the first time, there are communication towers. That is where the money went. What our colleagues on the right side of the House want to portray to the Zambians out there …

Interruptions

Hon. UPND Members: What is your question?

Mr Mung’andu: …is that – Now, my follow-up question is, in fixing this economy, which we are looking forward to, the hon. Minister has mentioned that the Eighth National Development Plan (8NDP) will be actualised and anchored more on decentralisation. Did the hon. Minister inherit this 8NDP from the previous Government? If the answer is yes, what changes has the hon. Minister made to this document for it to suit the New Dawn Government objectives?

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, yes, everybody borrows. The wise borrow according to their capacity to pay back and not to end up in problems. The unwise borrow beyond their means. That is the difference.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chikote: Waona manje!

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, yes, in Lusaka, there is more infrastructure now than before. We cannot deny that but Zambia is not Lusaka.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chikote: Correct!

Mr Nkombo: Lusaka is not Zambia.

Dr Musokotwane: Zambia is not Lusaka. If the hon. Member goes to the rural areas – I do not know about the hon. Member because he belongs to a party that was in Government but even then, it is becoming very clear that even those who used to say, “development is overflowing”, were actually deceiving.

Hon. UPND Member: They lost!

Dr Musokotwane: So, the issue is that, if we have to borrow, we need to balance development.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: We can do something for the people in Lusaka but we should not forget about the people in Katete …

Mr Muchima: Chama!

Dr Musokotwane: … Serenje and Chama. That is what we are talking about.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muchima: Exactly!

Dr Musokotwane: How is the road from Chipata to Chama? Is he happy with it? He is happy that the roads in Lusaka are good but the one going to his village is bad. Is he happy about that?

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear! Shame, shame!

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, on the issue of the development plan, we have to be honest. We did not start from nothing. We started from where they left, and we made our own input. That is the way things work. When they came into office, it was the same thing. That does not mean we are going to do everything that we have proposed. No! We are adding value.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Katambo (Masaiti): Madam Speaker, indeed, every average Zambian needs a better living or life, meaning a ‘decent life’. The hon. Minister has highlighted in his convergence that there is supposed to be economic transformation and job creation. He went further to say that people in our wards, districts and provinces should own this development.

Madam Speaker, the revised guidelines of the increased Constituency Development Fund (CDF), K25.7 million, stipulate that it will be distributed or given in piecemeal. The hon. Minister went further to say that this month-end, he will release some funding. Now, if this money is given in piecemeal, will it achieve the many developments or needs in our various constituencies?

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, yes, we have agreed that the money will be released in four phases. Every quarter, money will be released. We are doing so because even if we are to give them everything at a go, they will not be able to spend all of it.

Hon. Government Members: Correct!

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, that is a reality of life. Even in the National Budget, when we say we have K140 billion, it does not mean that we will spend the whole K140 billion at a go. It does not happen that way. It comes in bits and pieces, as we collect the taxes. What I can assure the hon. Member, on behalf of his constituents is that every ngwee of the CDF, will be released by the end of the year. Every bit of it will be released. The days of having the whole year pass without the CDF being released are gone. That is history. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member should just prepare himself and the good people of Masaiti for the implementation of projects. I am sure they will be very happy with him.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chala (Chipili): Madam Speaker, my question has been asked by Hon. Katambo.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for that ministerial statement. In an event that the International Monetary Fund (IMF) rescue package does not go through as expected, ...

Hon. Government Members: How?

Mr Mtayachalo: .... does the hon. Minister have plan B or any other plan to engage the mining houses, in terms of reintroducing the windfall tax, especially that the copper price has been escalating on the international market?

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, the IMF programme will not, and I emphasise, not fail because the country has been struggling to get on this programme for years and years. The recognition of the need to get an ‘IMF bailout’ as we call it is not something that is new.

Madam Speaker, by 2015 and 2016, we were already talking about it but unfortunately, it did not happen. Surely, there must come a time when the country will find the way forward and make sure things happen.

Madam Speaker, with regards to the mining sector, I am sure my colleague, the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development will come here one day and explain what he is doing in the background. We are not talking about what he is doing because of the various complications that we found. The complications at Konkola Copper Mines (KCM) and Mopani Copper Mines need to be handled with maturity and care. The benefits or the fruits will begin to emerge sooner than later.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mumba (Kantanshi): Madam Speaker, I want to draw the hon. minister’s attention to our debt particularly, the external debt. The bulk or larger chunk of the external debt that we have is with China. In the last six months, we have observed that the New Dawn Government has focused more on the Western debt. There has been very little talk on the Chinese debt, which is the largest component.

Madam Speaker, since the International Monetary Fund (IMF) bailout plan is certain, to what extent is it going to assist the repayment of the Chinese debt?

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Kantanshi for that important question. Yes, the IMF debt, like all other debts, is going to be treated. There is no problem because this matter is being dealt with. I find it difficult to say much because my colleague, the Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation just came back a few days ago from China and I believe, we are certainly on course. There is no need for concern.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: We will take the last two questions from the hon. Members for Chifubu and the hon. Member for Kafue.

Mr Lubozha (Chifubu): Madam Speaker, we need to kill two birds with one stone. In an event probably, where our hope for bailout for economic recovery from the International Monetary Fund (IMF) does not pull through, is the Government considering reverting to China as a next source for the bailout?

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, the co-operating partners that we have are all important. The IMF, China or whichever country we can borrow from are all important. So, we are carrying everybody together. The good thing is that people are seeing this debt crisis as a temporal setback. Otherwise, the majority of the people are looking much towards the future. Once this debt crisis has been resolved, what kind of opportunities will lay in Zambia? So, we are focusing on how we can uplift the economy of Zambia. Right now, we are more interested in investors who are coming to invest in Zambia.

Madam Speaker, the short answer to the question raised is that all the partners are important. We will see how best we can engage with them.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.   

Mrs Chonya (Kafue): Madam Speaker, I want to commend the hon. Minister and his team for coming up with that promising plan. I am excited about the aspect of job creation. I want more elaboration on the aspect of job creation. Is this strategy going to also involve reviving or recapitalising some of the industries such as Nkwazi, Bata and the Nitrogen Chemicals of Zambia (NCZ), so that more jobs indeed, are guaranteed in Kafue?

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, indeed, job creation is one of the most important tasks that this Government is looking into. Everything is being done to put in conditions for more jobs to be created. There are of course, jobs for teachers and policemen that are offered by the Government. By definition, those jobs cannot be enough to cater for all the young people who are coming into the labour market. There are only so many police officers and teachers we can hire. Our focus is on what we need to do to create incentives for the private sector to come through. 

Madam Speaker, indeed, with regards to Kafue, there are some people who are talking to us about some of those old assets and what needs to be done to revive them. They are talking to us and we are pushing forward. Beyond that, job creation is not just about going back to history. All over the world, industries have timelines. Some industries die off because it is just time for them to die. Remember, a few years ago, the film industry was one of the biggest ones.  There were companies like the Fujifilm and Kodak in the past but technology has changed. What happened? They did not insist that customers must buy their old technology. They moved on. So our challenge is to, as we try to revive those that are still revivable, see what else can be done to bring in new industries. 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

HUMAN-ANIMAL CONFLICT IN FEIRA PARLIAMENTARY

The Minister of Tourism (Mr Sikumba): Madam Speaker, I rise to deliver a ministerial statement on the recent human-animal conflict incident that occurred on 9^th March, 2022, in Rufunsa Game Management Area (GMA) in Feira District. This is in response to a matter of urgent public importance, raised by the hon. Member of Parliament for Feira Constituency.

Madam Speaker, I am grateful for the opportunity to make clarifications on the issues raised, to allay fears of the people of the district and Feira Constituency, in particular, who live around the protected areas. In order to address this matter more comprehensively, my statement will first address the human-animal incident which took place in Feira, then highlight the steps that the Government has taken to address human-animal conflict across the country, in collaboration with communities and our partners.

Madam Speaker, the Ministry of Tourism received reports on the death of two people, arising from human-animal incidents in Feira on 22^nd January, 2022 and 9^th March, 2022. The incident of 22^nd January, 2022, involved a man aged fifty-five, a resident of Kavalamanja area in Chief Mpuka’s chiefdom, who was reported to have been collecting honey when that happened. It was further reported that this human-animal conflict was caused when the man’s dog provoked the elephant which chased the dog and killed the victim in the process.

Madam Speaker, the incident of 9^th March, 2022, occurred in the early hours of that particular day, around 0200 hours. In this case, a male victim aged thirty-six from Kapyanika Village in Chief Mpuka’s area, met his fate on his way home through the elephant corridor.

Madam Speaker, on behalf of the Government, I want to be categorical in starting that the loss of the two lives as a result of human-animal conflict is regrettable and very unfortunate. Once again, I take this opportunity to convey our sincere condolences …

Mr Mtayachalo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, you do not rise on a point of order when the hon. Minister is giving a ministerial statement.

Mr Sikumba: … to the families of the deceased.

Madam Speaker, we have noted that human-animal conflict incidences have increased in the area due to the increased number of elephants flocking into the area from the Lower Zambezi National Park and Rufunsa GMA, in search of water. This is because the streams in the two protected areas have dried up leading to the increased movement of the elephants. In addition, human activity in the GMA has increased due to ongoing encroachments in the two protected areas.

Madam Speaker, further, there has also been an increase in unplanned settlements along the banks of the Luangwa and Zambezi rivers that form part of the animal corridor.

Madam Speaker, elephants are migratory animals. In this regard, we are having a challenge of influx of elephants migrating from Mozambique to Zambia to seek refuge. Some of these animals have been reported to have injuries thereby, making them more violent. These factors, among others, could have contributed to the rise in human-animal conflicts that we have witnessed in the areas around the Lower Zambezi National Park and Rufunsa GMA.

Madam Speaker, due, to the challenges I have highlighted, spillovers from human activities into wildlife areas, and wildlife movements into human settlements are inevitable.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order! Hon. Minister, where is your facemask?

Mr Sikumba: Madam Speaker, I could not catch my breath earlier. 

Mr Sikumba wore his mask.

Madam Speaker: Ok, thank you.

Mr Sikumba: Madam Speaker, in line with our mandate to conserve and manage wildlife protected areas in a sustainable manner, the ministry has continued to recognise and address human-wildlife conflict as a perennial problem. The problem manifests in form of crop and property damage, human injuries and fatalities, land boundary disputes, land-use exclusions, and encroachment on wildlife-protected areas. The solutions to reducing the incidences of human-animal conflicts lie in mitigating against the enabling factors at all levels.

Madam, with specific reference to Feira, the ministry is working with cooperating partners to undertake community sensitisation programmes in Luangwa.

At a broader level and on a continuous basis, the Government is implementing four key interventions to address human-animal conflict that include, but are not limited to the following:

     (a)        improving law enforcement and wildlife habitat protection through increased patrols;

     (b)        increasing community involvement in wildlife management across the country;

     (c)        developing and implementing general management plans;

     (d)        continuing with community engagement activities; and

     (e)       recruiting wildlife police officers to enhance law enforcement, wildlife management and protection of

                people in human/wildlife conflict prone areas. The Government has planned to do that this year.

Madam Speaker, the community engagement revolves around key issues on basic management and development of the protected areas, and land use strategies for addressing the problem of human-animal conflict. This is key in preventing trespassing and encroachment of all kinds.

Madam Speaker, other practical measures being carried out on the ground to restrain animals like elephants from moving into certain areas so as to prevent conflict include a variety of methods such as chilli blasting, use of watchtowers, electric fences and safe grain stores.

Further, the use of local radio stations to educate and sensitise communities living around the animal habitats, on the threats paused by animals, the times they are likely to materialise and mechanisms for preventing harm to human life and property, will continue to be employed.

Madam Speaker, in order for us to have an active early warning system, the Government has continued to conduct regular monitoring of animal populations and movements, coupled with early notification of communities and control to ensure animal density stay within their recommended stocking rates. For effectiveness, the use of global positioning systems(GPS) satellite collars and aerial surveillance for animal tracking will be scaled-up.

Madam Speaker, it is worth noting that communities near wildlife protected areas will always face the risk of exposure to conflict with wildlife resources. Our aim as the Government is to reduce the scale and frequency, and eventually, eliminate occurrences to safeguard the lives of the people and property from the threats of wildlife.

Madam Speaker, on the other part, communities need to desist from encroaching on protected areas. This is because experience has demonstrated that the increase in illegal settlements in protected areas results in conflict in land use. This is a central message we communicate to communities in our engagement.

Madam Speaker, other complementary measures that the Government has continued to implement are the delineating and demarcating of boundaries of national parks and GMAs. We are confident that the successful implementation of these integrated approaches to combat human-animal conflict, will go a long way in preserving life and safeguarding crops and domestic animals. These measures will result in a peaceful coexistence of humans and wildlife.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement given by the hon. Minister of Tourism.

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for that ministerial statement.  It is increasingly clear that man-animal conflict has been escalating in the recent years. Indeed, as the hon. Minister has said, this has posed a great risk to human life, and had undermined food security.

Madam Speaker, does the hon. Minister not think that the international ban on the ivory trade has increased the elephant population? What are the corrective measures for this?

Mr Sikumba: Madam Speaker, I would not agree that the ban on ivory trade has precipitated the human-animal conflict. I think the issue of human-animal conflict has been precipitated by the effects that I raised in my ministerial statement.

However, to speak to what the hon. Member for Chama North has raised, the issue of the ivory trade is something that is topical on our agenda as the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government. We will be engaging our cooperating partners on some of the treaties that we signed regarding the trade in ivory. I am sure the hon. Member is aware of an association called the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species (CITES) that we ascribe to. Until such a time that we have a firm agreement and understanding in terms of trade, that is when we will discuss issues of trade.

Madam Speaker, to respond to the hon. Member’s question more directly, the issue of human-animal conflict is not tied to the issues of not having to trade in ivory.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Madam Speaker, Chama, where I come from, is also along the Luangwa Valley, just like Rufunsa.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that there is uncontrollable logging that is going on in these game management areas (GMAs)? If I were to invite the hon. Minister to Chama South, he would be shocked by the number of foreigners, Tanzanians, who have camped there with machines, destroying the habitats for animals, thereby, increasing the risk of human-animal conflict. The animal habitat is being destroyed and as a result, animals are now coming closer to the people because they cannot find food in the bush. Most of these animals are elephants. What is the hon. Minister doing to help these communities, in GMAs to ensure that timber logging licences are not issued? Otherwise, if nothing is done, we are not going to have his ministry tomorrow.

Mr Sikumba: Madam Speaker, indeed, illegal timber logging activity has been rampant in most of the protected areas like the GMAs and national parks across the country. 

Madam Speaker, the House may have heard on the Floor of this House what mitigating factors the Ministry of Tourism, as well the Ministry of Green Economy and Environment are putting in place as a way of harmonising the resources that we have within our country.

Madam Speaker, in light of the foregoing, the Government is looking into reinforcing laws that govern the protected areas, like the GMAs under the Forestry Act, as well as the Wildlife Act No. 13 of 2015, which we will obviously bringing to the House for amendment. This will give us more powers to manage our resources.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mrs Chonya(Kafue): Madam Speaker, it is good to listen to the hon. Minister talk about measures to do with the human-animal conflict. This is a very common issue in Chiawa, which is part of my constituency. The people of Chiawa are asking whether the Government will consider compensating families that are affected by the human-animal conflict, particularly, families whose members lose lives in those conflicts.

Mr Sikumba: Madam Speaker, I was actually looking out for the question that talks about compensation. I would like to bring it to the attention of the House and the population at large that compensation is attributed to when there is a disaster. 

Madam Speaker, the Disaster Management Act No.13 of 2010, defines a ‘disaster’ as follows:

“’disaster’ means an event that is associated with an impact of human induced or natural hazard, which causes a serious disruption in functioning to a community or a society, causing wide spread human, material or environmental loses which exceed the ability of the affected community or society to cope with the hazard using its own resources”.

Madam Speaker, by definition, in as much as the Government would sympathise through compensation, that cannot be regarded as a disaster because it is individuals who are affected and not a society or a bigger community. We will continue sensitising those communities so that we are not found in a situation, where the Government will be compelled to compensate certain individuals in an unfortunate instance, such as the one we are talking about.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Sampa (Matero): Madam Speaker, I deduce from the hon. Minister’s response or statement that the animal-human conflict is partly due to an increase in the population of certain species like elephants and buffalos.

Madam Speaker, thestatus quonow is that the villagers in those areas hardly get a chance to taste the dingi that most of the people with money in this country have in their fridges.  

Madam Speaker, is the Government considering culling some of these animals? The population of elephants has increased and they are now attacking villagers in their fields. Would the Government consider having a programme to reward the locals with some of these elephants so that they can also benefit instead of only benefiting the rich and the foreigners? 

Mr Sikumba: Madam Speaker, indeed, we have certain species that have increased in numbers. Without really being scientific, on the Luangwa River, we have more than enough hippos that swim at a particular area. Buffalos are almost extinct due to the hunting and poaching that seems to be rampant. 

Madam Speaker, the issue of culling is what we are looking into. Firstly, I will have to understand the actual numbers that are within the various habitats. Secondly, with regards to whether the locals can actually have a taste of dingi, as we call it, – I believe dingi is wild swine. That will be taken care of during our resident hunting season. The rest of the nation will be told exactly when it will happen. They will also be told when the bonafide hunting that happens within the locality where those animals are resident will happen.

Madam Speaker, however, it is also important to let this honourable House and indeed, the country know that as Zambia, we pride ourselves in wildlife. Within the region, Zambia prides itself as a country that has its ‘wild wildlife’ if I could call it that way. Other areas within the region, have theme parks, while in Zambia, we have the wild. So, I would like to highly encourage our fellow hon. Members who preside over the protected areas to take time to sensitise their constituencies and communities on the value that is derived from the wildlife estate and asset that we have in this country.

Madam Speaker, in the absences of that, we will be getting so many complaints from the communities suggesting that this wildlife is actually a hindrance instead of being an asset to the country.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Lubozha (Chifubu): Madam Speaker, this human-animal conflict has not only affected lives but has also, caused crop destruction. In events where farmers whose fields would have been destroyed by animals borrowed farm inputs and implements from the Ministry of Agriculture, and considering that farmers can only be assisted if their situation fits to be disaster, what would happen, since they will need to pay back those loans? Is the hon. Minister considering discussing with his hon. Colleague in the Ministry of Agriculture to waiver the debt on the affected farmers?

Mr Sikumba: Madam Speaker, indeed, this issue of ascertaining the amount of damage that the wildlife leaves in certain fields cannot be over-emphasised. However, like I did mention earlier, in the definition of a ‘disaster’ according the Disaster Management Act, channels of the Government in areas like Feira, would be have an assessment done through the office of the District Commissioners (DCs). Once that assessment is done – We are a listening Government. Obviously, if a disaster happens and does not fall within the definition of a ‘disaster’ under the Disaster Management Act, I believe we would still be able to assist those particular communities. Even if, those communities are under the Patriotic Front (PF) strongholds, we will still be able to assist them.

Madam Speaker, what is important is that an assessment will be done through the DC’s office. Once it is brought to our attention, we should be able to speak to the Office of the Vice- President, to see how best we could assist those particular communities. As at now, we will still stick to what is defined as a ‘disaster’ through the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU). 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Simuzingili (Gwembe): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for a very good statement. Madam Speaker, are you getting me?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: You are loud and clear. Hon. Member, you may continue.

Mr Simuzingili: Madam Speaker, the human-animal conflict has actually become endemic. No day passes, on the lakeshores, without people being killed by crocodiles. Are there any plans or measures put by the Government to crop these animals so that the numbers are reduced? Is there any plan to have personnel from the Department of Wildlife stationed along the lakeshores? I am asking this question because our people are actually dying on a daily basis? 

Mr Sikumba: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member of Parliament for that question. Like I mentioned, cropping of crocodiles can only be done when a thorough assessment is done on a proposed habitat. If, indeed, in a given constituency, a report or complaint has been lodged through an area warden suggesting that the population of the said animals, in this case, crocodiles, is too high, we should be able to do an assessment and be able to crop, when need arises.

Madam Speaker, in the other question, the hon. Member requested that we should have officers patrolling those particular areas. I did mention in my ministerial statement that one of the challenges that we are faced with as a ministry through the Department of National Parks and Wildlife (DNPW) was the limited staff deployed to do patrols. I wish to make mention on the Floor of the House that the New Dawn Government, through my ministry will be employing wildlife police officers within 2022, who are going to be used to reinforce patrols in these particular protected areas.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Menyani Zulu (Nyimba): Madam Speaker, I am one of the hon. Members of Parliament whose constituencies are along the Luangwa River. The number of people who are killed by elephants surpasses that of the elephants poached. When is the hon. Minister going to employ more wardens, or the so-called game rangers, so that as a country, we can ascertain the numbers of overpopulated animals and protect our people who are being killed every six months? For example, in my constituency, every now and then, a person is killed by the so-called local investors, those managing game ranches along the Luangwa River.

Mr Sikumba: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member of Parliament for that question. I think this question is almost in line with what I was asked earlier, regarding what we are going to do in terms of employment. I did mention that the Ministry of Finance and National Planning has approved the 2022 Budget for the Ministry of Tourism to employ wildlife police officers. Once that is done, I am sure we will be able to see patrols going on across the twenty national parks and thirty-six (GMAs) in the country.

Madam Speaker, I also want to encourage our hon. Members of Parliament, especially those whose constituencies are along the river banks to use the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) to develop inland water points. We cannot be having people going to draw water from  the crocodile and hippo infested rivers when in the actual sense, they can have boreholes within their localities. Let us assist them with the K25.7 million CDF that is readily available, especially those hon. Members of Parliament whose constituencies are situated in the GMAs or protected areas.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: We will take the last two questions from the hon. Members for Itezhi-tezhi and Masaiti.

Mr Mutinta (Itezhi-tezhi): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the ministerial statement. Basically, I am excited that there will be recruitment of additional wildlife officers to ensure that the lives of the people in the protected areas and wildlife are safe. I know that one of the reasons we have continued having these accidents or human-wildlife conflicts is as a result of the slow reaction time of the wildlife officers. One of the things which we borrowed from the Patriotic Front (PF) is the lack of vehicles or any other support systems for this wildlife officer to respond. That is one issue.

Madam Speaker, the other issue is with regard to the motivation of these men and women who are guarding wildlife and the lives of people. As the New Dawn Government, do we have any special intentions to incentivise these men and women? I know that the Budget for the Ministry of Tourism has increased. It has been adjusted a bit. They need to be incentivised so that they work with the energy they deserve and ensure that they protect our people who are ravaged by animals every day and night.

Mr Sikumba: Madam Speaker, I am very thankful to the hon. Member of Parliament for Itezhi-tezhi for that question. I am happy that he agrees with us that lack of manpower was one of the main issues that contributed to human-animal conflicts with regards to patrols. Apart from human-animal conflict, I think the recruitment of manpower is purely based on vetting the number of poaching that exists currently.

Madam Speaker, I will probably use this opportunity to also make mention that the recruitment of wildlife police officers is a continuous process. Once we indicate as to when we will be doing it – What I would like to make mention is that we have a reservoir of those who will be employed. These are the boys and girls, men and women, who are actually working as community scouts, who for a very long time, have been part of the system and have been assisting the DNPW to manage most of the wildlife resource.

Madam Speaker, at the time that we will be recruiting these wildlife police officers, we will call upon most hon. Members of Parliament who reside in the protected areas to be very instrumental. This will enable us to deal with issues like the one regarding the delayed response to an incident by my area warden from Chilanga or Kwacha House, which is the ministry headquarters. It will be important that hon. Members engage issues at that particular level within the constituency. The reason why we have senior wardens in those particular areas is because we have delegated authority to them, to be able to make decisions as to what happens within that particular area.

Madam Speaker, in terms of response time, I did make mention before on the Floor of this House that it is an administrative matter which definitely, will be looked into and all those erring officers who seem to be slow with reacting will be talked to.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Katambo (Masaiti): Madam Speaker, indeed, the mandate of the ministry is to conserve and manage wildlife. The hon. Minister has indicated that there are people living around those protected areas. This means that the hon. Minister would agree with me that there is an issue of unplanned settlements. So, what measures has his ministry put in place to deal with this issue? Is it working with other ministries in a multi-sectoral approach to manage this issue of unplanned settlements?

Mr Sikumba: Madam Speaker, I am very thankful for that good question from the hon. Member of Parliament for Masaiti. The issue of unplanned settlements definitely, is being managed by our creation of general management plans for the national parks, as well as the GMAs. Hon. Members will realise that in the last few years, most of these GMAs as well as national parks seem to have had rampant encroachment by human settlement. In the absence of a general management plan, it is very difficult to enforce the rules or laws that govern protected areas.

Madam Speaker, my ministry is, therefore, in a continuous process of creating general management plans for all the twenty national parks and thirty-six GMAs across the country. That will enable us to avert most of those challenges that we have with regards to encroachment.

I thank you, Madam Speaker

_______

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

INSTALLATION OF SPEED CAMERAS BY INTELLIGENT MOBILITY SOLUTIONS

307.  MrKamondo (Mufumbwe) asked the Minister of Transport and Logistics:

    (a)   what the contract sum for the installation of speed cameras by Intelligent Mobility Solutions, was;

    (b)  which districts benefitted from the project; 

    (c)   whether the cameras are operational; and

    (d)   if not, what the way forward on the project is.

The Minister of Transport and Logistics (Mr Tayali): Madam Speaker, in response to the question raised by the hon. Member, I wish to inform this august House that the total contract sum of the installation of speed cameras was US$110,782,500. Between July, 2018 and March, 2019, when the project was under implementation, three districts namely; Lusaka, Kafue and Chisamba benefited. The part that was worked on was on the Great North Road, from Lusaka up to Chisamba Police Checkpoint, and on the Kafue Road, from Lusaka up to Shimabala Toll Plaza.

Madam Speaker, the project had a positive impact on road safety, as evidenced by the high compliance levels to speed limits that were observed on the Lusaka roads. The speed cameras are no longer operational following the termination of the Concession Agreement on 20^th October, 2020. The Concession Agreement was terminated on the basis that no party was at fault and therefore, there were no further costs to be incurred by either party.

Madam Speaker, lastly, the termination of the Concession Agreement marked the end of the Intelligent Mobility Solution (IMS) project. In terms of the way forward for the speed management in Zambia, the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security has developed the Safe City Project which is intended to curb crime and enhance national security. The Safe City Project incorporates a speed management module and is a future of speed management in Zambia. The Road Transport and Safety Agency (RTSA) is working closely with the Zambia Police (ZP) under the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security to operationalise the speed management module of the Safe City Project.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mpundu (Nkana): Madam Speaker, there seem to be a lot of apprehension regarding those overhead cameras we see on the roads. Are those cameras for speed or security? If not, what are they?

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, I want to thank the hon. Member of Parliament for Nkana for that very important question although, it was already covered in the response. If the hon. Member was following closely, I did allude to the fact that the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security has embarked on the development of the Safe City Project, which is intended to curb crime for the enhancement of the national security. I also stated that these cameras also have a module that we can utilise to manage speed limits in terms of adherence. In short, it will cover both.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mrs Chonya (Kafue): Madam Speaker, there are a lot of interesting issues for Kafue today. In this question, the hon. Minister is enlisting Kafue District as one of the beneficiaries of this particular project. Is the hon. Minister able to enumerate the real benefit that the people of Kafue derived from this project?

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, we talk about ‘benefit’ as a relative term. We say ‘benefit’ in the sense and context that Kafue was one of the districts where cameras had been placed for obvious strategic reasons. One of the reasons was due to the traffic that comes from that direction. That is one area that was prone to accidents. It was therefore, decided that those cameras be put there for the sole purpose of controlling motorists as they traverse the road coming from the South. It was in that context.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mabeta (Kankoyo): Madam Speaker, US$110 million was invested in the speed cameras and within the shortest period of time, the project was abandoned. Was due diligence really done before the cameras were installed or it was obvious corruption in the Patriotic Front (PF), which motivated them to put those cameras?

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member’s guess, as to why this project is no longer in existence, is as good as mine. Barely a short period after this project was implemented, it was actually curtailed. There were obvious things that arose. There were known individuals who had schemed to benefit themselves from that project as opposed to the Government realising the necessary revenues. Certain factors immediately came out in terms of its contradiction to the legislative provisions that govern the collection of funds and even the use of the data, in terms of subscribing a private company to have access to details of motorists. This was in conflict with the law. The Learned Solicitor General, State Counsel, Abraham Mwansa, at that time had rendered a serious legal opinion that immediately raised issues that bought out the fact that there was an element of fraud in that project, and that is what caused it not to continue.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Katakwe (Solwezi East): Madam Speaker, does the hon. Minister have any model to categorise the fines for speed traps? For example, on a 60 km/h stretch of the road, if one exceeds the limit, he or she will be fined maybe, K350. In Botswana, if you exceed –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1640 hours until 1700 hours

_______

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Katakwe: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank you for according me an opportunity on behalf of the people of Solwezi East to ask a follow-up question.

Madam Speaker, normally, the people operating these speed cameras just ask for fines from the offenders. Before business was suspended, I was saying that if the speed limit for a stretch of the road is 80 km/h and then one exceeds that to 85 km/h, he or she can just be charged K350. Does the ministry have any model categories of speed limits in order to avoid people from being subjected to corruption? For example, if the speed limit is between 80 km/h and 100 km/h, the fine can be K100. It the speed limit is between 100 km/h and 120 km/h, the fine can be K200. This will enable those who are fined to afford to pay as opposed to being fined K350 for just exceeding speed limit by 2 km/h, which can lead to corruption because one may not afford to have that K350 right there.

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Solwezi East for the follow-up question.

Madam Speaker, I wish to concur with the hon. Member that indeed, the system that prevailed at the time of the failed Intelligent Mobility Solutions (IMS) project, contributed to high levels of corruption, where hefty fines would be avoided and infringing motorists bribing the law enforcement officers.

Madam Speaker, indeed, as the New Dawn Administration, we have put most of these issues into consideration. So, we intended to bring in an amendment Bill that will take into account a reasonable point system depending on how many points above the speed limit one would be. Those would attract specific fines depending on the extent of the contravening.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Lubozha (Chifubu): Madam Speaker, my simple and straightforward question is directed to the hon. Minister of Transport and Logistics.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has highlighted a number of districts that benefited from this project. Now, there are other districts that did not benefit. Is he also considering extending this project to the districts that did not benefit?

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, the answer is in the affirmative. I made reference earlier that the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security is developing a Safe City Project. This Safe City Project intends to use not only the cameras that were left behind by the (IMS) project but also, the overhead cameras that have been put for surveillance on innocent citizens. Once that is done, we intend to have a good coverage of much of the country, so that we can bring the much needed, speed limit controls into effect.

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kamondo (Mufumbwe): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for explaining the issue of cameras to the people of Zambia. Going forward, will the ministry sensitise the people, when the project begins, so that they know that those cameras are not meant to punish but to deter them from over speeding?

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, indeed, it will be very important that once this project comes to the implementation stage, we shall need a robust sensitisation programme, both on electronic as well as other forms media, including bill boards. We shall sensitise people that first and foremost, the cameras are working, and that we shall strictly follow the guidelines in terms of speed limits, and that no one would escape once caught over speeding. As earlier alluded to, with the current state of our roads, over speeding is a major cause of accidents. Therefore, whatever project we shall embark on, shall be to safeguard the lives of our valuable citizens.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chala (Chipili): Madam Speaker, it seems that the speed limits on the dual carriageway and the ordinary roads are just the same.  Is the ministry not going to do something about it to increase the speed limits on the dual carriageways?

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for that question although it ultra vires the question that came before the Floor of this august House. The English say, “more haste less speed.” Once the dual carriage way is constructed, the responsible New Dawn Administration …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tayali: … will do the right thing in terms of what sort of speed limits must be put on a highway or a high motorway as opposed to other speed limits for domestic roads.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank you for giving the voice of Chienge a chance to be heard on this very important debate.

Madam Speaker, the previous speaker indicted that the reason the contracts were cancelled was because of corruption, which was attributed to by the Patriotic Front (PF). Was it the PF or the United Party for National Development (UPND), that cancelled the contract?  If it was the PF, how was it tolerating corruption?

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, I thank my sister, the hon. Member for Chienge for that question. The events that characterised this particular project make very sad reading. On one hand, under the previous Administration, authority had been given that this project proceeds. It was given the due clearance by certain constitutional office holders but a different office challenged it that to say, whatever had taken place was going to ultra vires the Constitution.

Madam Speaker, in a particular legal opinion rendered by Abraham Mwansa, the Solicitor-General, SC, as he was then, did point out that certain issues needed to have been dealt with. These are as follows: Whether a Statutory Instrument (SI) was required to prescribe the procedure contained in a public notice issued by the Road Traffic and Safety Agency (RTSA) for dealing with traffic offences captured by speed cameras; and secondly, to provide for the blocking on the electronic Zambia Transport Information System (e-ZMTIS) of vehicles in respect of which fines are not paid within seven days from the date or notification of traffic offences.

Madam Speaker, what certain nationals of this country in the previous Administration attempted to do was to usurp certain legislative provisions, issues such as being able, out of traffic offences, to collect revenue and that revenue would go into private accounts, which was contrary to legal provisions.

Mr Sing’ombe: PF!

Mr Tayali: It is only in Control 99, where such revenue should be going.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, we also had a situation where they allowed a private company purportedly working under a Public Private Partnership (PPP) project to have access to information database regarding citizens of this nation that own motor vehicles and subscribed their personal details to that particular system. That was challenged and that is why that project failed.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tayali: It did not have blessings from the Constitution. So, on one hand, this was rife with corruption. Being a living document, the Constitution was able to allow that to happen.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. Mpundu(Chembe): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has acknowledged in his ministerial statement that this project had a positive impact on the Zambian people, in terms of controlling the speed limits. The Government has decided that this project should not to continue. Already, colossal sums of money have been spent. Is the Government not bringing Zambia backwards in terms of development, especially that money has already been spent? Why is the Government not just refining certain issues pertaining to the project so that we move forward?

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, that is a very good question. The hon. Member, had he been paying attention – That is why he is able to acknowledge that I did address the positive aspect of the project, I think what went wrong with that particular project was the motive of the persons who were promoting it. Had it been done in the spirit of nation building, yes, even today, even under the New Dawn Administration, it would have continued. However, this New Dawn Administration, being a Government that respects the rule of law, has decided that through the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security, we shall be able to once again, bring that project to actualisation under the concept we are calling the ‘Safe City Project’. That will take into account all legal provisions, that we do things the right way, so that the Government may be able to realise the necessary revenues while at the same time, being able to bring in the aspect of control of speed limits, in terms of adherence. That is precisely what I had said.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Munsanje (Mbabala): Madam Speaker, thank you for the opportunity given to the people of Mbabala to ask a follow-up question on the wonderful statement by the hon. Minister of Transport and Logistics. Madam Speaker, US$110 million was a lot of money that went to waste due to corruption. We have bridges that were not fixed by the same Government that was wasting this money.

Madam Speaker, our data and personal records as citizens, were exposed to a private company. Nowadays, we receive messages from strange numbers that say, the money you are supposed to this Airtel money number, could you please it to this number instead. Should we, hon. Minister, say that the data that was exposed to a private company is the data that is now being abused by these scammers? What are we doing to protect the citizens? That was a very dangerous scheme on our security as a country because terrorists, scammers, and all sorts of conmen have access to our data.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, wind up your question.

Mr Munsanje: I have asked the question, Madam Speaker.

Laughter

Mr Munsanje: Madam Speaker, can the hon. Minister confirm that those people on the other side (left), who gave our data to some private company, are the reason we are now receiving messages …

Laughter

Mr Munsanje: … requesting us to send amounts like K200 to certain numbers?

Mr Mung’andu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, is the hon. Member who is struggling to ask a follow-up question in order –

Mr Syakalima: Which Standing Order are you rising on?

Mr Mung’andu: It is Standing Order No. 65, which states, in case the hon. Member is not aware, that hon. Members should not impute wrong motives on other hon. Members and that, the information that is presented on the Floor of this House should be factual and verifiable. Is the hon. Member for Mbabala in order to insinuate that we here, who are very innocent hon. Members as he can see from our faces …

Interruptions

Mr Mung’andu: … have been giving Government data to terrorists?

Madam Speaker, this is a dignified House and the Zambians out there are watching and listening. As leaders, they take what we say in this House serious. We will never know what discussions are going on in these villages when they hear that hon. Members on the left get information from the Government and give it to the terrorists and scammers. People have lost money in this country through mobile phone transactions. The hon. Member has insinuated that very innocent hon. Members here have been conniving with scammers.

Interruptions

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, I seek your serious ruling. This is not a joke. As hon. Members, we should be responsible and mindful of what we say on the Floor of this House.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Thank you, hon. Member. Before I make my ruling, I just want to ask the hon. Member for Mbabala whether he mentioned that the people on the left –

Hon. PF Members: Yes!

Interruptions

Mr Mabeta: It is the PF!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Did you mention the people on the left?

Mr Munsanje: Madam Speaker, I indicated that the people who sat on the left, the former Government, exposed our data to a private company. Now, we receive messages from people we have not shared our numbers with, asking us to send money to them. The messages say, “The number you should send the money to is this one.” Where did they get our numbers from?

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, he has acknowledged that he said it.

Interruptions

Mr Munsanje: So, those are the things I am talking about. It is exposure, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

From what I have heard now, the hon. Member said, “The people who sat.” Unless if he is – He referred to the people who sat on the left ...

Mr C. Mpundu: The people who sit!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: ... in the past.

Mr C. Mpundu: Then it is them!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, as we are debating, let us be very mindful of what we say because this information is actually reaching your people, the people who brought you to this House. So, let us try to be factual and mindful of what we mention in this House.

May the hon. Minister of Transport and Logistics answer the question.

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for asking a very well-crafted question.

Laughter

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, because of the increase in number of unsolicited attempts by fraudsters and all sorts ofunscrupulous individuals who has come in Zambians, it may appear that the reckless exposure of sensitive security information that contains our personal details ought to be safeguarded. That why the New Dawn Administration under the able leadership of His Excellency the President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, is saying never again should a Government act in such a reckless manner, that may put the lives of its citizens in harm’s way.

Madam Speaker, that is why we are taking our time to rectify those wrong doings by the people who sit on your left. We hope that they may be remorseful because their actions are causing the speedy development of this country to be slowed down. There is so much that we need to correct.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Member: That is the way, Mr Minister.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, before we go the next item on our Order Paper, the hon. Member for Kabwata is ready to render his maiden speech.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: May the hon. Member render the maiden speech.

Mr Tayengwawas not available.

________

MOTION

MOTION OF THANKS

(Debate resumed)

Mr Chala (Chipili): Madam Speaker, when the House adjourned yesterday, I had started talking about corruption and I will go direct to it. The New Dawn Government has not left out the suppliers in its fight against corruption, which is commendable. No wonder, it has even failed to procure medicine due to the fact that the suppliers have been labelled corrupt because they were dealing with a corrupt Government.

Madam Speaker, we now have a situation where the same New Dawn Government is now working with suppliers who used to supply to the corrupt regime. From the two regimes, what is it that you can get? Is it hypocrisy? Why should we condemn one and praise the other, when they are all in the same category? Why? What mechanism did they use to pick on those who were Patriotic Front (PF)? They were eating with the corrupt PF but they supplied fertiliser to the Government. What I can say is that the ball is in its hands (Government) in as far as uniting this country is concerned.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

The Hon. Member’s time expired.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I am told that the hon. Member for Kabwata Constituency will give his maiden speech tomorrow. We shall continue with the hon. Member for Muchinga Constituency.

Mr E. Banda (Muchinga): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving the people of Muchinga a chance to debate the President’s Speech on morals and (inaudible)

Madam Speaker, I want to thank you very much that today, I am debating what the President said when he addressed Parliament. I will debate a the few things he mentioned and among them are: corruption, national unity and constitutionalism.

Madam Speaker, let me start with constitutionalism. It is very saddening to note that we still have areas that need a lot of changes in terms of constitutionalism. I was very happy when the President mentioned that he will bring some amendments to the Constitution, especially on issues that relate to the labour sector, to the House. 

Madam Speaker, as I am speaking, we have a problem in the Ministry of Transport and Logistics, where coach drivers have registered a union which their employers have refused to acknowledge. This has frustrated our drivers and it is causing many accidents. The President of the Republic announced that there will be changes in the labour sector, and it has given hope mostly to the people who are being exploited by their employers. They will now see light at the end of the tunnel.

Madam Speaker, if this is done, many people will benefit. Even the travelling members of the public will be safe on the roads, unlike what is happening now. Those people need to be supported as they drive and take care of many lives and properties. They are essential workers so to say.

Madam Speaker, as the President is doing this –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Can you please focus on the President’s Speech. 

Mr E. Banda: Madam Speaker, thank you for your guidance, but I think the President did mention that there will be some –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Alright! It is like we are still debating the question answered by the hon. Minister of Transport and Logistics. Can you focus a bit on the speech.

Mr E. Banda: Madam Speaker, in his speech, the President mentioned that they would focus on labour matters and changes will be made. That is what I am trying to highlight. In fact, I come from that same industry and that is why I am – Anyway, I accept your guidance, Madam Speaker and I thank you very much.

Madam Speaker, the people of Muchinga are very happy and they support the President on the issue of child marriages. Muchinga being a rural constituency has been experiencing many issues of child marriages, where many of our pupils have been married off. The President talked about the new measures that will be put in place to safeguard the lives of our children, mostly the girl child and the people of Muchinga and Zambia at large are very happy about it.  The President should know that he is not alone in this. The whole country is supporting him. Therefore, there is no need for anyone to start politicking on this issue. 

Madam Speaker, before the New Dawn came into power, we had many challenges. We could not move freely in our bus stops. I am one of the people who were victimised during that time. We could not move freely in our markets. Trading was limited to those who supported certain people. So, it makes us very happy when the President says, “we have done this.” This is the reason today, we do not have those untrained commanders on the roads, markets and bus stops. I want to assure the President and the New Dawn leadership that the people of Zambia are very happy and they are supporting them. Any well-meaning Zambian will support the New Dawn Government for this great achievement.

Madam Speaker, I come from a constituency where many of our youths have destroyed themselves because of beer drinking. The President did mention that some legislation will be put in place to guide on consumption and trading of alcohol. This will benefit our country because it will encourage the people to work very hard and be productive unlike spending most of their time drinking beer. I want to assure the President that in all this fight, the people of Muchinga are behind him.

Madam Speaker, the other thing I want to talk about is corruption. Corruption has been robbing this country of its resources. The previous Government failed to employee our youths who have been graduating every year. It was not possible for the Government to pay the retirees including those who retired as way back as 1999. However, with the coming of the New Dawn Government, we have seen retirees being paid. We have heard that 11,200 health workers will be employed soon. We will also see the employment of about 30,000 teachers. I have not even mentioned those who will be employed by the security wings. All this fight against corruption is as a result of the good policies by the New Dawn Government. This goes to say that every well-meaning Zambian should support the New Dawn Government because it has come to change the livelihoods of the people. Yes, at the moment, some people may say things are hard here and there, but it will take us through hard times before we reach good times.

Madam Speaker, I want to thank the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Hakainde Hichilema. I can assure him that the people of Muchinga and Zambia at large are with him in the fight against corruption. We are very happy that our schools are now filled up because of the free education policy. All these are great achievements that we have seen in the last seven months.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo): Madam Speaker, I thank you for according the people of Kalabo an opportunity to place on record their gratitude and happiness on the speech, which was rendered by His Excellency the President. According to the constitutional requirement, we need to appraise it so that we see what level we have reached in terms of the application of principles and values in this nation. Without roots, a tree cannot survive. So, the values and principles are the roots of the Zambian community.

Madam Speaker, the New Dawn Government came into office after the 12^thAugust, 2021 elections. So, we are trying to see what good things the Government has done within the five or six months it has been in power. The interest under that constitutional requirement is to see how much morally right we have been as a nation. Desirably, there must be more right than wrong. We, as a people of this country, under any given Government, must have more ‘right’ or ‘good’ than ‘wrong’ or ‘bad’.

Madam Speaker, it is normal to have bad leadership. Naturally, from the origin of life, leaders are in two groups. There are those who are bad, who cherish bad things, and those who are good, just like there is negative and positive. Fortunately enough, the Almighty turned the tables of this country. He managed to expose the two sides of leadership, ‘bad’ and ‘good’.

Madam Speaker, now, how do we determine good and bad? First of all, we have to look at the majority. Where are the majority? The Majority were suffering. All the vices, which are highlighted in the speech, for me, are as a result of the bad leadership. What type of a Government would not take its citizens to school? Would it be placed on the good? The people of Kalabo and I are saying no. That is a bad practice of leadership. No wonder teenager pregnancies and child marriages increased.

Hon. Member: Sichaba saku utwa!

Mr Miyutu: This is because these girls and boys were just idling in the villages. They were told to pay for their school fees, which they could not afford. So, I think in terms of morality, ethics, principles, and values, the New Dawn Government is on the right track.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Miyutu: How do you live with your colleagues, who have worked and have reached retirement, but you do not want to pay their dues? Is that good governance?

Hon. Government Members: No!

Mr Miyutu: That is the type of governance that led to the so many problems that have made the country have the biggest load of debt.

Mr Mabeta: PF!

Mr Miyutu: That is bad governance. You do not just borrow because you have a right to borrow. When you borrow, you need to look at your capacity to pay back.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! Hammer!

Mr Miyutu: That is a loan!

Mr Mabeta: Teach them!

Mr Miyutu: Madam Speaker, a loan is not a grant. So, the Government must have known whether our capacity economically will enable us to pay back so that the lives of the citizens are sustained and lightened. It did not look at that. That was bad governance. We have so many challenges arising from bad governance.

Mr Mabeta: PF!

Mr Miyutu: Madam Speaker, I visited three to four schools in Kalabo and I discovered that the enrolment has increased from 500 to 900. It has almost doubled. To me, that shows good governance. When we educate our people, some of these challenges will be sorted.

Madam Speaker, the issues of diarrhoea will be sorted out. Somebody who has been to school and is able to read can avoid diarrhoeal cases. The cost of buying medicine can be reduced and that resource can be diverted to other sectors of the economy. That is what a good Government does. It takes its people, first of all, to school.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Miyutu: The people of Kalabo are happy with the New Dawn Government...

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Miyutu: ... and they are on their knees ...

Mr Sampa: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Miyutu: ... pleading to the Almighty to allow the New Dawn Government to continue to achieve its goals as promulgated in the election campaigns.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sampa: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Sampa: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member has resumed his seat. I wanted raise this point of order on him because he was breaching Standing Order No. 112, where hon. Members are told to debate calmly and not as if they are in a boxing ring, ...

Hon. Government Members: Ah!

Mr Sampa: ... boxing the microphone. Is he in order to debate vigorously in that way?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: That is on a light moment. I think you are free to express yourselves as long as you follow the procedure and the Standing Orders.

Mr Jamba (Mwembezhi): Madam Speaker, thank you for allowing me to add a word to the President’s Speech.

Madam Speaker, I will try to entitle my discourse – They say, “Ubupuba ta bwakwata muti”. I will try to translate.

Mr Mabeta: Hear, hear!

Mr Jamba: In Lozi, they say, “Bukuba, abuna mulyani.” In Nyanja, they say, “Upuba bulibe mankwala”.

Hon. PF Member: Question!

Mr Jamba: In English, this means, there is no treatment for foolishness.

Laughter

Mr Jamba: Madam Speaker, there are some people –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, ...

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: ... I am not comfortable with the word ‘foolishness’ in this House. Can you please replace it?

Mr Jamba: I can interpret it, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Member: Interpret the word ‘foolishness’.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Interpret it in a manner that is conducive to this House.

Mr Jamba: Madam Speaker, we have people who tell their colleagues to get onto a boat even when they see that it is sinking. Such people lack wisdom and the opposite of that is what I was trying to say.

Laughter

Mr Jamba: Madam Speaker, when the President came to address the House, did he have morals to do that? I say, “Yes!” Let me say this to show that there was progress in what the President was saying. By the end of August, last year, the former Government had hon. Ministers from the same region in this House. How do we have hon. Ministers from the same region when we are One Zambia One Nation? I even have the names of those hon. Ministers.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Jamba: Madam Speaker, if people want to know that the President qualifies to talk about morals in this House, then should look at his hon. Ministers. In his Cabinet, there are four hon. Ministers from the Southern Province, four from the Eastern Province, four from the Northern Province, four from the North-Western Province and four from the Western Province. The President was able to balance them.  Therefore, he qualifies to talk about moral rights in this House.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Jamba: He is different from thepeople who came to talk about ‘One Zambia One Nation’ and the issue of ‘leaving no one behind’ when they were just a group of people mismanaging the country.

Hon. Government Member: A cartel!

Mr Jamba: A cartel, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, if you check, the hon. Ministers who were there in August and those who are there now, there is a difference. There is so much progress in the way the country is getting united. I will lay this paper on the Table.

Ms Chonya: Hear, hear!

Mr Jamba: Madam Speaker, let me go lower, from the hon. Ministers to the Permanent Secretaries (PSs). I heard some people saying that this New Dawn Government is appointing ‘whatever.’ I have a list here of the PSs. I can tell you, Madam Speaker, that these PSs came from one region. They should go and check.

Hon. PF Members: Which region?

Mr Jamba: You know the region where you come from.

Mr Sampa: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Interruptions

Mr Jamba: Madam Speaker, we could see from the appointment of PSs that what was happening –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Sampa: Madam Speaker, I have read the President’s Speech thoroughly, and there is nowhere where he justified the appointment of anyone. Is the hon. Member on the Floor in order to bring in matters that are not in the speech?

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious ruling.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I think I guided before that we must focus on the President’s Speech. We are always tempted to move or swerve from the President’s Speech. Please, can we come back. I think we have all read the President’s Speech. So, let us debate from that angle.

Hon. Member, you can continue.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hammer!

Mr Jamba: Madam Speaker, our Constitution says that when a Cabinet is made or people are appointed into office, things like ‘ethnicity’ and ‘balancing’ should be put into consideration. When the former Government, in August, was appointing PSs, it did not look at the Constitution. That was morally wrong. 

Ms Chonya: Hear, hear!

Mr Jamba: The President had the moral right to come and address us. We are now presenting the facts before this House. 

Madam, some of these people did not even eat the money with the PF. They are not part of the thieves as they claim. 

Hon. Member: You were not there!

Mr Jamba: On this list, about thirty people come from one region. The President has now appointed PSs from across the country and he has a moral right to address this House on the progress made to this nation.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Jamba: Madam Speaker, maybe, some people forget that in this country, one could not wear a red t-shirt. Even on valentines’ day, people would wear green clothes ...

Laughter

Mr Jamba: ... for fear of being beaten for belonging to the United Party for National Development (UPND).

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Jamba: Today, people can wear their Patriotic Front (PF) things. The country has become united. No wonder we are saying that the President has actually done more than what he would have done in six months.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, can you please finish up your words. You said that these people wear their things. What are their things?

Laughter

Mr Jamba: They wear their green regalia which have some other colour that I do not know what it is called and no one beats them.

Madam Speaker, in August, last year, no one would walk in a red T-shirt. Now, they can see the sanity which is in this country. They can even move and talk freely. They can even sing, ukwebaati, “Twalikwebeleukwebaati, wininaapa, bupubabobe.” That is why I am telling them in my discourse that ubupupatabwakwatamuti.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!  Hon. Member, you mentioned something in Bemba. Can you please translate it?

Mr Jamba: Madam Speaker, I will translate. The issue here is that people are trying to put vengeance on a wrong trajectory. They are trying to tell the people that what they voted for is wrong. We are saying what they voted for – The President who spoke in this House was actually morally right. He is actually a person who can do things the correct way.

Madam Speaker, I went to one Government office to speak to highly trained officers. When I got into their office, they said, “Honourable, do you know that just in August and July, last year, some people would come here with cards saying, “Ninebo chairman of whatever province. Nabantuma ukwaba atimpelaifya so.” They would even pick a phone to call the hon. Minister.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, meaning what? Just use English.

Mr Jamba: Madam Speaker, some people would go into the office of a qualified Government officer and instruct him to do something illegal and that if the officer refused to do it, he would threaten to call the hon. Minister.  He would even pick up a phone to call the hon. Minister who would say to the officer, “Just do what you have been instructed to do. Uyoe chairman wachipani.”

Madam Speaker, can you imagine how low we had become? There was nothing good about it. All police officers were reduced to cadres. Cadres were more important than anybody else. I thank God that one person who belonged to the Patriotic Front (PF), who beat up police officers has repented. He has actually come as an Independent hon. Member to this House.

Laughter

Mr Jamba: The police had lost power. The police officers of today are actually real. I dare someone to go and do carderism at Lusaka Central Police we see if he or she will not be locked up. This is how far the President has brought sanity to this country.

Madam Speaker, from the time those people were there (right side) – Before I resume my seat, I want to say that in this country, we will never have such a bad Government, which does not even know the left and the right. 

Interruptions

Mr Jamba: Headless chickens! We do not need to have such a Government again.

Madam Speaker, lest we forget, these people did not know what they were doing.

Mr Sampa: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member! The phrase ‘headless chickens’ is unparliamentary. Can you please –

Mr Jamba: Madam Speaker, I withdraw the phrase ‘headless chickens’ and I replace it with ‘people who had no leadership,’ not even the good or bad one. They did not know.

Madam Speaker, as I was saying, ...

Laughter

Mr Jamba: ... you see, there was violence in this country. Immediately, HH came, the violence finished. They can even start talking about me because they know there is no violence. The President has brought sanity to this country.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member’s time expired.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Ms S. Mwamba (Kasama): Madam Speaker, I want to thank you very much for granting me this opportunity to share on the Motion in the House. I also want to thank the people of Kasama, who are very elated to have me back in the House. I wish to thank them for their unwavering support. They stood by me through and through.

Madam Speaker, coming to the Motion, I do agree with the President that we should hold elections every five years. We, the legislature are here to pass laws. Let us look into it. Let us pass laws that will allow an election to take place in five years. The laws that we pass should be all inclusive and benefit each and every citizen of this country.

Mr Sampa: Ema debate!

Ms S. Mwamba: Madam Speaker, let me come to what the President presented. The President presented to us a progress report on what has been done and achieved so far. I wish to say, I would have loved to hear a little bit more detail, especially on statistics on early child marriages, gender-based-violence (GBV) and defilements. Statistics will help each and every one of us to understand, to say, where were we in to 2020? Are we making progress? Where were we in 2021 and what does 2022 hold?

Madam Speaker, once we start to put statistics, it will bring us closer to home because each and every one of us will begin to understand that one in fifty children is being married off early. One in a hundred is being defiled. GBV does not only apply to woman but men too.  A lot of men are undergoing GBV but tend to keep quiet. African men are taught to be silent when they are undergoing GBV. So, we need to know what the prevailing rates are because then, each and every one of us will begin to realise that the crisis is very serious.

Madam Speaker, it is pretty unfortunate, that the Ministry of Religious Affairs and National Guidance was abolished because it was beginning to shape up this country. In the near considerations, I wish to say, we should look into it again.

Madam Speaker, coming to the Constitution Development Fund (CDF), the Central Government seems to be lamping every new assignment on the CDF. As it is, the CDF is trickling in bit by bit. Slowly, yes, we will get there, but then, we cannot afford to have more scope of work. Each and every hon. Member will be in trouble with the electorates. They will be very expectant of what should be delivered but yet again, we will not have enough funds.

Madam Speaker, from the CDF already, we have to disburse money for bursaries and empowerment. Now, we have projects. So, we cannot have the Central Government release its duties on us and then again, as  hon. Members of Parliament, fail to deliver. The Government is...

Mr Mtolo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Interruptions

Ms S. Mwamba paused.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, you only stop when you are instructed to do so. Continue with your debate.

Ms S. Mwamba: The Government is promoting afforestation and in the speech –

Mr Mtolo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised. 

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, it is said in our Standing Orders that when we stand here, we should be factual in our statements. In the Patriotic Front (PF) Budget of 2011, the hon. Minister of Finance then, rose in this House and said, “We are not a party that shall bask in the empty glory of statistical euphoria.” This was said here in this House. How can today, an hon. Member of that same party claim that statistics are of use? We were told here, that statistics are of no use, whatsoever.

Hon. PF Member: What is your point of order?

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, the point of order is: Is the current speaker in order to point to the fact that statistics are of value to the PF, when in fact, we were told that they were not? Is she in order?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The statistics or the issue that you are talking about was raised by the former hon. Minister, but now we have the hon. Member for Kasama in her individual capacity trying to debate the way she is seeing things. So, if the hon. Member for Kasama, has evidence, she is not out of order. Do you have evidence, hon. Member?

Ms S. Mwamba: Madam Speaker, I said that I would have loved to see statistics because they bring us closer to home. When we start to look at figures, such as ‘one in hundred or one in fifty,’ it is easy to relate. That is what I said. 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Thank you. From her statement, I think she is in order. Those are her views. May she continue with her debate.

Ms S. Mwamba: Madam Speaker, the President spoke about promoting afforestation and that 5,854 ha of trees have been planted so far. I wish to note that we were not told the location of where the planted trees are. Looking at my constituency, Kasama Central, I can assure hon. Members that 80 per cent of the population there is actually relying on firewood and charcoal, which is creating deforestation. At the end of the day, climate change affects all of us.

Madam Speaker, what is the Government doing to help us find alternative energy sources because our people also need to live off firewood and charcoal? We need to look at the fact that climate change is of essence and we need to look into it as hon. Members. As the President said, let us all plant trees. Let us get support from the Government as well.

Madam Speaker, I am also looking at consumption of local goods and services. I must state that the cost of doing business in Zambia is pretty high, especially for the youths who are trying to start up. We need to also promote not just ‘Made in Zambia’, but also, “Make in Zambia”. Let us have all our ingredients made in Zambia. Let us have certain incentives that will benefit especially the youths so that they start-up businesses. For instance, you will find a company is starting to make peanut butter, but maybe the labels and preservatives would have to be imported. Are we not able to look into having other companies in Zambia that can also start to make more labels and preservatives?

Madam Speaker, coming to services, in most cases, we love to use Zambian services. In this case, I will use tourism as an example. Local tourism is very expensive. It is not affordable at all. We need to look at having local and international rates. Actually, going to Dubai is cheaper than going to a resort in South Luangwa or Lower Zambezi. We need to look at local tourism to ensure that rates could be reduced for the local people.

Madam Speaker, having had a feel of my fellow hon. Members’ debate on this Floor, I now wish to state that we are One Zambia One Nation. Each and every one of us is a representative of the entire Zambia as we stand in this august House. I wish to say we need to reconcile and heal. We may have differences, but let us stand together. National unity is of importance. Let us be one because that is what will bring Zambia forth.

Madam, the Patriotic Front (PF) may have made mistakes, but right now, we have the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government. The New Dawn is governing. Governance is about continuity. They may have left-off where they left-off, but we are moving forward to where we are going. We cry for Zambia not standing as partisan people. Let us remember that it is our Zambia and we only have one Zambia. No one will stand up for us if we do not heal and reconcile. I urge all hon. Member in this House to stand together. Let us call for national unity. We are the leaders and we represent each and every member of this country. One Zambia One Nation.

I thank you very much, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear! Well-done!

Ms S. Mwamba went to sit next to the Vice-President.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulebwa (Kafulafuta): Madam Speaker, the people of Kafulafuta would like to thank you for giving them an opportunity to debate on the President’s Speech on the Progress made in the Application of National Values and Principles.

Madam Speaker, I note with much interest in the speech that the President gave, not only a moral and intellect speech, as it were, but a speech that came from his heart. The way one got this speech will actually entail how they will respond to it and move forward. The President’s Speech places a demand on those of us who have the responsibility to capture his vision and thereafter, educate the Zambian people. This means that if one captured it intellectually, that will actually entail how this nation will move and how much we are going to achieve as the Government. If one got the speech from his heart, this will definitely help us to personalise the speech. Instead of us looking at it as the President’s Speech, we are actually going to come to a point where we shall personalise its message, so that the vision that the President has for this country goes forward and brings progress.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulebwa: Madam Speaker, I really wish to thank the previous speaker for her speech because I think, she captured part of the President’s Speech when the President talked about us loving one another. I really concur with her speech because I think most of the time, we have treated each other in this House in a very cruel manner. We have actually behaved as those we are not ‘honourable’ Members.

Mr Mabeta: It is PF!

Mr Mulebwa: Madam Speaker, your House has conferred us with the title of ‘honourable’, meaning the way we talk, carry ourselves and treat each other ought to be in an honourable manner. Sometimes I have heard very disturbing running comments, but the President’s Speech brings us home. The speech by the previous speaker brings us home. Why do we say we are One Zambia One Nation, if we cannot treat each other as such? The President’s Speech was quite explicit. The core of his message was on love; to love one another. As far as I understand English, to love simply means to respect. You cannot say you love somebody whom you cannot respect.

Therefore, Madam Speaker, I really wish to thank the President for the speech that he delivered and as I said earlier, if this speech can be personalised by those of us who have the responsibility to educate the Zambian people on the vision that the President has, we will definitely see much results. I know that we can all see that we are moving on the right path because results are there to be seen.

Madam Speaker, I have a lot to say, but I know that we have the same share of time. I just wish to comment on the fact that the President said, again, that Zambia is a Christian nation. To me, this really is where the jackpot is, whether we are going to have the benefits of a Christian nation or not. I really wish the term ‘Christian nation’ could be defined for us to understand what it means to be a Christian nation. Yesterday, the hon. Minister of Community Development and Social Services talked about suicidal cases going on the increase. I could see how much we fumbled with that topic. I know I am digressing, but what I am trying to say is that, understanding what it means to be a Christian nation is going to help us handle certain matters that need to be handled in a Christian manner better than we have done in the past.

Madam Speaker, I note with much delight that the President talked about the Ministry of Labour and Social Security having gone to inspect the working conditions and the environment that the Zambian people are working in. I noticed that we have 3,000 plus visas that were made. I really wish we could have a feedback of what they found on the ground and what has been done.

Madam Speaker, I come from a constituency that has a few companies that have not treated the Zambian people in the right way. I am grateful that at some point, the Ministry of Labour and Social Security had to come and look into that situation. However, I would have liked to have feedback on the visits or inspections that were done. Sometimes, visits can be made but if a few officers are bribed, that can leave our people suffering. My wish, desire and prayer is to have a situation where the Zambian people are treated in a dignified way that can actually make them feel  they are citizens of this country.

Madam Speaker, all in all, I feel the speech that the President gave was fabulous. The people of Kafulafuta feel that the speech was fabulous too. It can come out with passion, from the heart. If we can capture the heart or the spirit of the speech, then this House will never be the same again.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mapani (Namwala): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for according me this opportunity to add two or three words on the President’s Speech, which is currently the Motion in this House.

Madam Speaker, in his speech, the President centred his address on the word ‘love’. He demonstrated we cannot have development without love. The President clearly demonstrated that for us to move forward, we need love because it will lead us to peace. Peace is an environment that the people of Zambia will operate under. It is from these operations that we will actually see development.

Madam Speaker, you cannot talk about development when there is no peace in the country. The country that has no peace and love, has destruction. In 1993, my history teacher said, “In any country that has got no love, there is destruction. It is from this destruction that people in that country will continue suffering because it will never develop.” I am proud to indicate that my history teacher is now my fellow hon. Member of Parliament, whom I am sitting with today in this House. He indicated that at the time when Zambia will have a President who is going to demonstrate the meaning of the word ‘love’, it will develop. He said those words in 1993.

Madam Speaker, allow me to look at democracy and constitutionalism, which the President focused on during his speech. We all know that there can only be democracy in a state where there is love. It is in that state where there is love that people can enjoy peace. People will operate in an environment that will enable them to develop the country. Democracy is the Government of the people, for the people, by the people. This is exactly what the people of Zambia lacked for ten years. They will enjoy it now. We are seeing people deliberate in all the national programmes. This is the nature of democracy we have been talking about. This is a democracy that ought to be nurtured by everyone. It should not just be a word. The President has demonstrated it. We can see how the political parties in this country are able to meander and affiliate without any interference. Our President has scored in this area. This is what we have been crying for, for a long time now.

Madam Speaker, we have a Constitution, but does it have contents that touch on people’s aspirations? The answer is no. The President indicated on the Floor of this House that there is an intention to repeal some of the clauses in our Constitution. This is what the people have been looking and crying for. It is my hope that when that intention is brought forth by those in charge, the people of Zambia will be accorded an opportunity to actually include clauses that they have been crying for, which they were denied by the people who rushed the Constitution that we are serving under.

Madam Speaker, I want to make it very clear that I concurred with the President when he said that there is an intention to repeal the Public Order Act because previously, for the past ten years, the document was unfortunately misused, misgoverned and misapplied, by the people in authority. The Public Order Act is a document which is very clear. However, those people who did not want the colleagues or competitors to be accorded the same opportunities abused this document. The President clearly stated that he is going to actually repeal the Public Order Act to suit the demands and the dictates of our Constitution 

Madam Speaker, allow me to also look at good governance. This is another topic that the President laboured on. Good governance ought to be understood purely from the tenets of democracy. In tenets, we look at issues like transparency, accountability, respect of the rule of law and human rights, decentralisation, and the power to vote, just to mention a few.

Madam Speaker, on the rule of law, the President put it on record that there is no institution or Arm of Government that shall interfere with the operations of another. We have seen the way judges are operating now. This is a clear indication that democracy, freedoms and liberties for all are actually given to citizens of Zambia as they appear. There is no invisible hand that we have seen either from the Executive or others, that is interfering with the operations of the judiciary. These are the people who have been given a leeway to interpret the law according their professionalism.

Madam Speaker, decentralisation is the power that has been given to the people. We have seen how the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) has been decentralised. The people in all corners of this country are given an opportunity to govern themselves and come up with projects that they want in their constituencies. This is the leadership that we actually missed.

Madam Speaker, under accountability, today, a lot of things are being revealed. In the past, there was no accountability of our national resources. People used to abuse the national resources at will because they knew no one would touch them. Unfortunately, the law of this country is very clear.

Madam Speaker, let me also talk about transparency. People’s resources were used without them knowing were the monies were spent on. This is what we are saying no to. The President said he will ensure that whatever activities will be done using public coffers, the people of this country will be given an opportunity to know.

Madam Speaker, finally, it is my appeal to the people of Zambia to never allow this country to be given to the howler.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr C. M. Mpundu (Chembe): Madam Speaker, I thank you for giving the good people of Chembe an opportunity to also echo something on the President’s Speech on the Progress made in the Application of National Values and Principles.

Madam Speaker, to start with, I will only zero-in on two issues which are unity and good governance.  Things like a greeting, an appreciation or a compliment sound simple but they bring oneness. Values bring meaning into our lives. These are things that we should deeply care about because they are the basis of the choices we make in our lives. The values that we are talking about are directing us to have meaningful existence.

Madam Speaker, national values are so critical. In the President’s Speech, on page 20, I see a bit of a mismatch in terms of unity. We all know that we have not only had one, two or three by-elections but many by-elections in this country. Now, in his speech, the President only thanked the people of Kabwata, Sokontwe and Lyangechi. Those are by-elections that were won by a certain grouping. There is also another by-election that was won by a different grouping. So, when we are preaching this unity, all those things are supposed to be mentioned. Henceforth, let us learn to compliment each other if we are to uphold the national values that we are talking about.

Madam Speaker, borrowing the words of the late President, may his soul rest in peace, His Excellence is a President for all Zambians and what he says matters to everybody. Hence, it was worthwhile for him to compliment the other grouping if this unity we are talking about was to be morally right, so to say.

Madam Speaker, let me talk about governance. Good governance is how decisions are made, be it implemented or not. Governance starts at individual level. At all levels, there is governance because each one makes a decision. This is why governance is critical in promoting national values. In other ways, governance is lifeblood of national values that we are talking about. Governance has got its own tenets, like the other speaker mentioned. It has about eight tenets and one of them is responsiveness. Responsiveness means that we need to actualise our decisions quickly because if we impair –

Madam Speaker, what I mean is that if the people of Chembe want a road to Kasoma Lwela to be worked on because they are cut off, and their representative in this House tells the Government about it and the response is that there is no money, that is not responsiveness. The Government needs to act quickly because if that road is worked on, the children who opt to stay home, discuss sex and even get pregnant will be prevented from those things because they will be able to go to school. The manner in which the Government responds to issues that affect our communities really matters. In other words, governance plays a key role in whatever we do.

Madam Speaker, when we present issues, decisions should be made quickly. After all, governance means that the Government needs to look for resources as quickly as possible to mitigate issues that are affecting our communities. If the Government does not act promptly by not working on the road that people are complaining about, it is impairing the good governance that we are talking about in as far as national values are concerned. A key thing to understand is that we need to see responsiveness. If there is a disaster, we do not need to take time to act. These national values end up being impaired because of the way we respond to certain disasters.

Madam Speaker, in order for us to move forward, we need to stop too much politicking. We need to focus on making decisions that are more pro-active in order to make good governance propel our nation values.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mufalali (Nominated):  Madam Speaker, I want to thank you for giving me an opportunity to add a few words to the speech that was given by the President in line with Articles 9 and 86(1) of the Zambian Constitution  and the national values and principle as enshrined in Article 8.

Madam Speaker, under the national values as enshrined in Article 8 of the Constitution, there is morality and ethics. I will take time just to tick His Excellency the President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema to try and see what progress has been made.

Madam Speaker, indeed, I think progress has been made in a very strong way. I would say it was a leap because when I look at the years back, this time around, one leader came here to talk about values and principles.  He, further, went on to talk about issues, trying to fulfill this fixture of him having to come and unite the nation, something that we did not see. One could not have come here as if he really had morals and ethics, and also, believed in patriotism and national unity, and then a few days later, he goes to pick an Opposition Leader and throws him in cells on trumped up charges. He goes and throws him in human excreta where he wants to punish him. Such is a situation that we came from. Even if the President is looking at these values and principles, they were not adhered to before.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: The foundation under which he wants to lay this was quite weak. It clearly indicates, when I look at these values and principles as they stand today – When the President came here, I said to myself, he is walking the talk …

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: … for simple reasons. The morals of our people and that of the leadership that was there then – You see, even when the President talks about these morals and also, ensures that we teach our children to stop drinking heavily – We cannot have a leader who comes here drunk, a leader who shivers when  he has not taken anything. That is the abuse the President was talking about. So, the President lives with these morals and ethics. He has that moral right, as one of the speakers has said, that he can stand here upright and say what he wants to say.

Madam Speaker, coming to patriotism, democracy and constitutionalism, human dignity, equity, social justice, equality, non-discrimination, good governance, integrity and sustainable development, these things were thrown out of the window. It was morally wrong for someone to have been coming here just to make a fixture. People should speak what they believe in and not what they do not believe in.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: Madam Speaker, they forgot. As the President was addressing this House, he actually mentioned something that touched me. He said that there are things that we will manage to reverse and put in order and those that will not be reversed. In line with that thought, I looked at some of the things that the Patriotic Front (PF) and the former President did, like buying the Gulfstream at an exorbitant price. That might not be reversed because the price was too high. I want to urge the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning that the price for the Gulfstream cannot be reversed anymore. Even if they look around, they will not find a buyer. They will not be able to recoup the money that was spent on it. So, it is time for Her Honour the Vice-President and the entire Executive to realise that the Gulfstream must start being used because they will be no market for it. Its price was exorbitant. The people who were involved in making a decision to buy that Gulfstream, to them, it was very normal to add on US$40 million or anything.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: Madam Speaker, it is very unfortunate that this country could have been driven in such a way. With regards to issues of human dignity, they beat up people. The era of having musclemen moving in front of the President is gone, where they had to put the policemen aside.

Ms Kasune: Fresh air!

Mr Mufalali: Now, we have a President who comes without any muscleman here.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: He comes to talk to the House with the national police and in a dignified manner. That is what we are looking for.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Kasune: No cadres!

Mr Mufalali: No more cadres!

Mr Muchima: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: Today, as I stand here, there is no political leader – Even if they are daring the Government to put those who have stolen (thieves) in jail, fortunately, some of them are going to jail. The issue is that there is respect for human rights. There is respect for all those participants in the political arena. The rule of law is prevailing at the moment. So, there is no room for such mediocre that we saw in the past for simple reasons. The President means business and he means what he says. So, as I check on this list of about six items that constitute the principles and values, I can mark everything that the President is seriously making progress. The UPND Government is making progress. On these six matters that he came to present, there is total progress.

Mr Muchima: We are on top of it.

Mr Mufalali: So, Madam Speaker, as we move forward, the President talked about love. I appreciate but unfortunately, I think we are dealing with people who are not interested in being respected. They are challenging the powers that be and they feel that following the law to them means weakness. It is not weakness. We must deal with corrupt people. Those who are corrupt must go to jail.

Mr Muchima: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: They have a lot of property that they cannot account for. For the property that they cannot account for, they must be brought to book.

Mr Muchima: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: Madam Speaker, I want to thank the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security, Her Honour the Vice-President and the entire Cabinet for the good job.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: These things, the fight to ensure that there is no corruption in this country is real and we want to see the results.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Mkaika.

Mr Sing’ombe: Wile!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: He is gone? He is not around.

ADJOURNMENT

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

______

The House adjourned at 1837 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday, 24^th March, 2022.

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WRITTEN REPLY TO QUESTION

CREATION OF JOBS FOR YOUTHS AND WOMEN

308. Mr Chewe (Lubansenshi) asked the Minister of Small and Medium Enterprise Development:

     (a) what measures the Government is taking to create jobs for youths and women; and

     (b)  what types of jobs will be created.

The Minister of Small and Medium Enterprise Development (Mr Mubanga): Madam Speaker, the Government is promoting the development and growth of Small and Medium Enterprises (SMEs) to create jobs for the youth and Women. To this effect, the Government established the Ministry of Small and Medium Enterprise Development with a specific mandate of ensuring the development of SMEs and co-operatives. In order to promote the development of SMEs and co-operatives to create the much needed jobs, the ministry is implementing the following measures:

Creating a Conducive Policy and Regulatory Framework for SMEs and Co-operatives

 Madam Speaker, the following policies and pieces of legislation are priority:

     (a)   Micro, Small and Medium Enterprise (MSME) development, the ministry is currently reviewing the 2010

            MSME policy;

     (b)   national co-operatives development policy. The 2021 policy will be reviewed to align it with the New Dawn

            Government policy direction;

     (c)   amendment of the Citizen Economic Empowerment Act No. 9 of 2006;

     (d)  Small and Medium Enterprise (SME) definition Bill will be drafted; and

     (e)  Repeal of the Co-operative Societies Act No. 20 of 1998 Madam Speaker, these measures are intended

           to reduce the cost of doing business in Zambia. 

Address the Challenge of Access to Appropriate Finance

Madam Speaker, the ministry has been working with the cooperating partners and has come with joint ventures such s the accelerated growth for SMEs in Zambia. This project has already been working and is producing benefits for the Zambian SMEs. These are the types of engagements we are embarking on with our cooperating partners for the benefits of SMEs. The Government is also engaging financial and non-financial institutions to come on board and support the provision of affordable finance for SMEs.

Madam Speaker, the Government has increased the allocation to empowerment fund under the Citizen Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC) from K41 million in 2021 to K350 million in 2022. In addition, a percentage of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), K803,000,008 out of the K5 billion has been allocated to empowerment schemes for the youth and the women.

Formalization of Informal Entrepreneurs for Ease of Provision of Services

Madam Speaker, the ministry is encouraging the youth and women to form co-operatives and register businesses. To that end, the ministry is working with the SMART Zambia to ensure that all our services are available in digital and electronic platforms. This will increase access to our service and increase the number of transactions between SMEs and their clients.

Capacity Building of MSMEs and Cooperatives

Madam Speaker, the ministry is building capacities of SMEs and cooperatives with business development support services which will help them scale up their business to grow from one level to another. The aim of the Government is to create decent and sustainable jobs for all. Once empowered, SMEs will grow and create formal jobs.

Madam Speaker, we are looking forward to having business jointly ventures with larger business entities within and outside the country create further opportunities for SMEs to create more formal and decent jobs.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.